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Re: Keyboard Issue - I wonder how many folks have had buyers

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Jerry Moore

Re: Keyboard Issue - I wonder how many folks have had buyers

Hi Marc,

All speculation and conjecture on my part.

Looking at the block diagrams for the digital I/O boards looks like (a
total guess on my part) you are experiencing an issue related to the rig
design. My understanding is the MCU code runs in a big loop (likely with
many subloops). I would expect that future designs would likely have two MCU
rather than one if the K3* is starting to see latency in external control
type I/O. Personal computers are designed to be interrupt driven where most
industrial grade type gear run programming loops. The advantage to the way
industrial gear is designed is the raw speed they can achieve. The
challenges come in when integrating other systems that need more time from
the MCU. Depending upon how the DSP and other features are integrated they
may require high MCU time which would leave less available to things like
I/O. Of course I have no clue how the K3* gear is programmed or works. I'm
just guessing based on the block diagram and my intuition based on
experience. I'd expect Elecraft might try to tweak the code a bit to help
the I/O, however, depending on the system design it's a balancing act.

As I stated, just a guess.

With regard to using wireless gear. I'm a computer guy with a strong
electronics background. I've found most consumer electronics gear to be very
susceptible to RF. I'm like you in that I want plug n play setups, however,
I still use a laptop with my Radio station for lookups, sat tracking,
grayline, .etc.

I'd not count Elecraft totally out on the keyboard performance feature. Not
many of us can type that fast, but, it's probably something to look at. My
concern would be marginally affecting something that's more important like
DSP processing. Perhaps a re-design of the I/O board with it's own
microcontroller. Add separate RS232 and USB Host ports, the I/O MCU could
buffer the I/O .etc.. anyway.conjecture is fun but without any facts it's
hard to imagine a probable fix.

As a note: I'm signed up for CW Academy but the class doesn't start until
Jan/Feb. In the mean time I'm spending my time listening around 7.053ish in
the AM. There seems to be a lot of rag chewing so it's good copy practice
(generally fast too). I'm using LCWO.net as well to hammer in the sounds.
About 2 or 3 times a week I break out the CW Academy papers and try sending
with my Bencher/Vibroplex paddle. Practice, practice, practice. I aspire to
be QRO like you ;)

Jer

Es 73 ..

Message: 5

Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 17:22:35 -0400

From: Marc Veeneman <[hidden email]>

To: "David F. Reed" <[hidden email]>

Cc: elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] I wonder how many folks have had buyers

remorse on a K3/K3S purchase?

Message-ID: <[hidden email]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Maybe I can offer a counterpoint, I do regret my K3 purchase. But I will
not be selling it.

That was the summary. Here, at great length, is the detail:

I had a KX3 with KXPA100 and liked it very much. I'm a CW operator and hope
to join the QRQ gang some day soon. But I spent the past 40 years working
with computers and I don't want one in my shack. I prefer to have minimal
equipment at the operating desk. With that in mind, I saw the pictures of
the PX3 with the word Keyboard stenciled over a USB socket. I ordered the
PX3 and separately order a folding wireless keyboard to match.

The PX3 arrived and it changed my operating for the better. Seeing the
entire band instead of slowly tuning for CW signals adds a whole new
dimension to my hobby.

But the Keyboard USB socket was useless and the sort-of-promise that the
keyboard option would be ready by Christmas went sort-of-unfulfilled.

Meanwhile, the K3/P3/SVGA combo has a keyboard option and my CW speed is
increasing so I ordered the K3 combo. It cost a lot more than the KX3 had.
As soon as the gear arrived I set it up with my yet-unused wireless keyboard
and commenced to play with it. Trouble. Letters, and sometimes whole words
went missing. CTRL-S has to be hit every so often to force a buffer dump.
And sporadically there are pauses of several seconds when sending just stops
and CTRL-S fails. However, the buffer dump might resume on its own.

My phone call to Elecraft gave me bad news. My wireless keyboard was not
approved by Elecraft so there would be no support for it. I ordered a USB
keyboard, waited for its arrival, and discovered no difference. I still had
all the same problems with the wired, approved keyboard. Then more bad news
from Elecraft: operating the keyboard without a VGA monitor is not approved.
If you recall, I wanted minimal equipment in the shack; in fact that's why I
wanted the keyboard option instead of the KX3 (now K3) Utility program for
sending CW. Now I learned that I have to have a screen on the desk as well.

I purchased a VGA monitor and tried again. Still all the same issues.

So Elecraft asked that I send the P3 with keyboard to them to find out what
might be wrong. I did so. After the normal UPS transit time, 5 days each
way, and a sufficient time for Elecraft experts to examine the P3, they
declared it perfect and could not explain any of my problems. (I pointed
out that the problems worsen as typing speed increases above 50 wpm; they
said "not so".)

They did admit that there is a sporadic delay of several seconds
periodically. But that is normal with the K3/P3/SVGA keyboard option.
(Huh?)

No charge for the "no problem found" service by Elecraft. But now I have a
K3/P3/SVGA combo that does not do the one thing I bought it to do. And I
have a 21" (smallest I could find) VGA screen to sell at the next ham swap
meet. It's stuffed away in a closet.

Meanwhile my KXPA100 stopped working (second time in a year) and my regular
CW skeds need all 100 watts almost every day. The K3/100 never has a hiccup
and the P3 offers some, but not all, of the PX3 benefits.

So, yes I have buyer's remorse. But the K3/P3, like it's KX3/PX3 cousin,
is the finest rig I've ever used. So I continue to use it daily.

The good news is that my CW skills are still below 50 wpm so my real need
for a keyboard is still a future event.

Sorry for such a long story, but I suspect some of you can sympathize.

--

Marc W8SDG

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MarcV

Re: Keyboard Issue - I wonder how many folks have had buyers

Hah! That did it, Paul. Now I’m not suffering character loss, even the double “l” in hello gets sent every time I’ve tried it. The quick brown fox is happy, too.

Oddly, in the several times I’ve typed the typical quick brown fox, I haven’t seen the data delay either.

What a difference!

It seems that you have revealed a way to avoid the data loss problem. Thank you very much. For the first time I feel confident enough to use the K3/P3/SVGA keyboard in live CW QSOs.
—
Marc W8SDG

> On Aug 7, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Paul Saffren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Marc,
>
> Plug your video monitor into the P3 and change the resolution setting (SVGA res) to 1024x768 . My guess that will help. At 1920x1024 the SVGA runs a little slower (more pixels to compute). Since you are not using the monitor, there is no reason to have it at the highest resolution.
>
> -Paul
>
> Paul Saffren - N6HZ
> Project Manager
> Elecraft Inc.
> 831-763-4211 x122
> www.elecraft.com
>
> On 8/7/2015 2:09 PM, Marc Veeneman wrote:
>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 3:18 PM, Paul Saffren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Marc,
>>>
>>> I was reading Jer's recent post, "Executive Summary", If you have that monitor connected to the P3/SVGA, press Ctrl-Alt-S on the keyboard and tell me what the TRANSMIT MODE is set to.
>> VOX
>>
>>
>>> Also list what the Transmit Timeout is.
>> 3000
>>
>>
>>> Next, on the P3, enter the SVGA menu, scroll to SVGA res, and tell me what the resolution is set to for the SVGA monitor.
>> 1920 x 1080
>>
>>> Finally, in Jer's post it says you are sending at 60 WPM CW, but the K3 only goes to 50 WPM. What is the K3 software version?
>> 05.29
>>
>> —
>> Marc
>>
>>
>>> -Paul
>>>
>>> Paul Saffren - N6HZ
>>> Project Manager
>>> Elecraft Inc.
>>> 831-763-4211 x122
>>> www.elecraft.com
>>>
>>> On 8/6/2015 6:48 PM, Marc Veeneman wrote:
>>>> That's a relief. C is good.
>>>>
>>>> Now I feel more comfortable, Paul. And I have some insight into your life, too. :-)
>>>>
>

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Jerry Moore

Re: Keyboard Issue - I wonder how many folks have had buyers

Excellent!! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Veeneman [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 9:33 PM
To: Paul Saffren
Cc: Jerry Moore; elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: Keyboard Issue - [Elecraft] I wonder how many folks have had
buyers

Hah! That did it, Paul. Now I'm not suffering character loss, even the
double "l" in hello gets sent every time I've tried it. The quick brown fox
is happy, too.

Oddly, in the several times I've typed the typical quick brown fox, I
haven't seen the data delay either.

What a difference!

It seems that you have revealed a way to avoid the data loss problem. Thank
you very much. For the first time I feel confident enough to use the
K3/P3/SVGA keyboard in live CW QSOs.
-
Marc W8SDG

> On Aug 7, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Paul Saffren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Marc,
>
> Plug your video monitor into the P3 and change the resolution setting
(SVGA res) to 1024x768 . My guess that will help. At 1920x1024 the SVGA
runs a little slower (more pixels to compute). Since you are not using the
monitor, there is no reason to have it at the highest resolution.

>
> -Paul
>
> Paul Saffren - N6HZ
> Project Manager
> Elecraft Inc.
> 831-763-4211 x122
> www.elecraft.com
>
> On 8/7/2015 2:09 PM, Marc Veeneman wrote:
>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 3:18 PM, Paul Saffren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Marc,
>>>
>>> I was reading Jer's recent post, "Executive Summary", If you have that

monitor connected to the P3/SVGA, press Ctrl-Alt-S on the keyboard and tell
me what the TRANSMIT MODE is set to.
>> VOX
>>
>>
>>> Also list what the Transmit Timeout is.
>> 3000
>>
>>
>>> Next, on the P3, enter the SVGA menu, scroll to SVGA res, and tell me
what the resolution is set to for the SVGA monitor.
>> 1920 x 1080
>>
>>> Finally, in Jer's post it says you are sending at 60 WPM CW, but the K3
only goes to 50 WPM. What is the K3 software version?

>> 05.29
>>
>> -
>> Marc
>>
>>
>>> -Paul
>>>
>>> Paul Saffren - N6HZ
>>> Project Manager
>>> Elecraft Inc.
>>> 831-763-4211 x122
>>> www.elecraft.com
>>>
>>> On 8/6/2015 6:48 PM, Marc Veeneman wrote:
>>>> That's a relief. C is good.
>>>>
>>>> Now I feel more comfortable, Paul. And I have some insight into your

life, too. :-)
>>>>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Richard Fjeld-2

Re: Keyboard Issue - I wonder how many folks have had buyers

In reply to this post by MarcV

Marc,Please let me know if you no longer experience dropped characters between the P3/SVGA and the K3. I may have hardware trouble.
Dick, n0ce

> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 21:32:38 -0400
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Keyboard Issue - I wonder how many folks have had buyers
>
> Hah! That did it, Paul. Now I’m not suffering character loss, even the double “l” in hello gets sent every time I’ve tried it. The quick brown fox is happy, too.
>
> Oddly, in the several times I’ve typed the typical quick brown fox, I haven’t seen the data delay either.
>
> What a difference!
>
> It seems that you have revealed a way to avoid the data loss problem. Thank you very much. For the first time I feel confident enough to use the K3/P3/SVGA keyboard in live CW QSOs.
> —
> Marc W8SDG
>

Jerry Moore

Re: Keyboard Issue - I wonder how many folks have had buyers

In reply to this post by MarcV

Paul,
Will this be fixed so that operators can run full resolution with an
external monitor while running high speed CW via a keyboard connected to the
P3 and not be affected?
Can it be fixed with firmware or will it require different hardware?

I'm close to ordering my rig and don't want to be bitten by this.

Thanks in advance.
Jerry Moore / AE4PB

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Veeneman [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 9:33 PM
To: Paul Saffren
Cc: Jerry Moore; elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: Keyboard Issue - [Elecraft] I wonder how many folks have had
buyers

Hah! That did it, Paul. Now I'm not suffering character loss, even the
double "l" in hello gets sent every time I've tried it. The quick brown fox
is happy, too.

Oddly, in the several times I've typed the typical quick brown fox, I
haven't seen the data delay either.

What a difference!

It seems that you have revealed a way to avoid the data loss problem. Thank
you very much. For the first time I feel confident enough to use the
K3/P3/SVGA keyboard in live CW QSOs.
-
Marc W8SDG

> On Aug 7, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Paul Saffren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Marc,
>
> Plug your video monitor into the P3 and change the resolution setting
(SVGA res) to 1024x768 . My guess that will help. At 1920x1024 the SVGA
runs a little slower (more pixels to compute). Since you are not using the
monitor, there is no reason to have it at the highest resolution.