Re: Li-ion battery

[Fred (FL)]

Lithion batteries have a long-known reputation for
"blowing up", "exploding", and catching on fire.
When I was with DOD R&D (with uncle sam) - I heard
of secure comm gear items catching fire and exploding
in this way.  The mechanics, chemistryimics, and
electrolytics of it all - I couldn't say.  I got A in
differential equations, but only B in chem 101 and
102.  I could minimize a mean karnaugh map tho!
My son-in-law MD, took every course in organic
chem, known to man.  I doubt he knows either.

I think the mil and dod used MUCH MUCH larger Li
battery packs tho.

Fred, FL

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[Ken Kopp-2]

Aren't these the same type batteries that recently received
considerable publicity due to fires/explosions in HP (and other)
laptops?

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
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[RBrigham1]

I do not know the exact chemistry of the Lithium-ion battery reactions, but
based on my inorganic chemistry experience, it would not surprise me if there
is actually metallic lithium in the battery when it is fresh; the lithium gets
ionized as the battery is used.  Metallic lithium is like metallic sodium and
potassium: it ignites spontaneously in the presence of moisture (releasing
flammable hydrogen gas in the process). Once started, it will also burn in air in
the absence of moisture.  Lithium-based batteries do store a lot of energy,
but it means they have an unfortunate failure mode. Still, they are awfully
useful.
Rob
KC6ROC
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[David Cutter]

I wonder just how close these cells are to being classified as explosives.  How does the energy density compare?  Our modern equipment requires higher and higher powers from smaller packages.  

David
G3UNA

>
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: 2007/01/04 Thu AM 06:35:59 GMT
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Li-ion battery
>
> I do not know the exact chemistry of the Lithium-ion battery reactions, but
> based on my inorganic chemistry experience, it would not surprise me if there
> is actually metallic lithium in the battery when it is fresh; the lithium gets
> ionized as the battery is used.  Metallic lithium is like metallic sodium and
> potassium: it ignites spontaneously in the presence of moisture (releasing
> flammable hydrogen gas in the process). Once started, it will also burn in air in
> the absence of moisture.  Lithium-based batteries do store a lot of energy,
> but it means they have an unfortunate failure mode. Still, they are awfully
> useful.
> Rob
> KC6ROC
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[k6dgw]

Ken Kopp wrote:
> Aren't these the same type batteries that recently received
> considerable publicity due to fires/explosions in HP (and other)
> laptops?

I don't know.  I do know that there are several kinds of lithium-based
batteries.  My little fireball was an "Li-Poly", I think the "poly"
stands for polymer.  It was super light, very small (0.5" x 1" x 2"
maybe), had a capacity of 850 mAh at 11.7V, a very flat discharge curve,
and very low internal resistance (could deliver at over 5C) ... the
flame thing was the only downside.

Fred K6DGW
Auburn CA CM98lw
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