Re: Magnetic Loops - Stan
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Hi Stan,
I've built a number of mag loops. I've used aluminum tubing, copper, and hard-line coax as the main sections. I purchased a dead AEA HI-Q loop unit on ebay for cheap years ago and pulled the capacitor off it. The ERP is off-course compromised compared to a dipole. However, its advantages are: - small size - super quite - Vertical or Horizontal polarization - In vertical polarization it is broad-side directable. Using 2-3" copper fully soldered together as the main body will increase your ERP. MFJ has a box loop which uses a wire. But a ham can pull their wire off and replace with copper pipe. In the right size diameter, one and work both 40 & 30 meters no problem. Have fun with your design!!!! :) Duane N1BBR -- [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I have an old AEA loop in my garage attic. It functions very
effectively. The bandwidth on 20 is no more than 10Khz or less. But signal reports and reception are only slightly lower than my full-size dipoles. When you get the feel for using it you can retune in seconds using just your ear and the noise level from the receiver. With reasonable conditions ( as in a little better than things are now) I've made 100's of Q's worldwide with 100 watts. I also use a pair of Ham Sticks with the MFJ adapter to make a 20 meter dipole. At 25 feet and 100 watts I have also made 100's of Q's. Bandwidth is about 75 to 100 Khz. For limited space, I think this is a great option. By pre-marking the whip portion, you can retune to say the CW band in about a minute. Doug -- K0DXV dw wrote: > Hi Stan, > I've built a number of mag loops. > I've used aluminum tubing, copper, and hard-line coax as the main > sections. > I purchased a dead AEA HI-Q loop unit on ebay for cheap years ago and > pulled the capacitor off it. > > The ERP is off-course compromised compared to a dipole. > However, its advantages are: > - small size > - super quite > - Vertical or Horizontal polarization > - In vertical polarization it is broad-side directable. > > Using 2-3" copper fully soldered together as the main body will increase > your ERP. > > MFJ has a box loop which uses a wire. > But a ham can pull their wire off and replace with copper pipe. > In the right size diameter, one and work both 40 & 30 meters no problem. > > Have fun with your design!!!! :) > Duane > N1BBR > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I have just published the details of a little portable QRP magnetic loop I made, on my website: http://www.g4ilo.com/wonder-loop.html. I compared it with the MFJ magnetic loop I have in my attic and I am very pleased with it.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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According to the loop calculators available online at various sites the
efficiency varies as a function of a number of parameters but making one for 20 or 30M at 90%+ efficiency is certainly possible. The efficiency will likely be limited by the number or type of joints in the assembly including those in the capacitor used for tuning. One which would be likely suitable for 30M could be made out of aluminum flashing as demonstrated by NV7E (i don't think he did his for 30M). It uses the overlapped ends of the flashing to form the capacitor. If tuned to a QRP watering hole it would certainly work either side of the tuned location enough to allow QSO off the calling freq. This aluminum flashing version wouldn't likely withstand serious weather but might make a great antenna for the attic. The higher the efficiency, the higher the Q but if you're rockbound, one frequency to get started while you're working on capacitor alternatives would seem to be a good start. 73 jim ab3cv ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
Just for fun once, I decided to make the smallest possible antenna and
see if I could make any contacts. I wound about 30 week of #12 solid insulated wire around a 3/4" PVC pipe. Parallel to it and electrically in series, I created a tunable tubular capacitor using copper pipe and a threaded brass rod. You screw the rod in to increase C and out to decrease. Using these strictly guesstimations, I found I had good SWR across the entire 20 meter band with about 1.7:1 on the edges. I mounted it on an 8' aluminum mast which was also connected to the shield side of the coax. I got on with my little Yaesu FT-840 and in 5 minutes I had a pileup of stations wanting an explanation for my report of an 18" vertical. I guess the efficiency must have been only a couple of percent. But, there it was, the smallest possible vertical for 20 meters! I worked about 15 countries that afternoon with it. Doug -- K0DXV Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > I'd like to be clear when I wrote earlier that a small transmitting loop is > very inefficient. > > I didn't mean they don't work, only that they only radiate a small part of > the RF applied to them compared to a larger antenna. > > Consider a typical mobile "whip" antenna. They're terribly inefficient too > but people get out with them, sometimes working DX when band conditions are > good. > > Of course mobiles generally run more than the 10 watts or so a K2 produces, > but contacts are made with QRP power and such antennas all the time. > > One way to make a given antenna "larger" is to use a higher frequency band. > It's a matter of the antenna's size in wavelengths or fractions thereof that > is important. That's why small antennas do so much better when the sunspots > are active and the higher frequency bands are open. > > Ron AC7AC > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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There is a Yahoo group called CW-CODE-WARRIORS that has a ton of data
on building Mag Loops, as well as numerous builders that have had great success with the antenna from all over the world. Check it out if you are interested. 73 de KB9BVN Brian Murrey On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Doug Person<[hidden email]> wrote: > Just for fun once, I decided to make the smallest possible antenna and > see if I could make any contacts. I wound about 30 week of #12 solid > insulated wire around a 3/4" PVC pipe. Parallel to it and electrically > in series, I created a tunable tubular capacitor using copper pipe and a > threaded brass rod. You screw the rod in to increase C and out to > decrease. > > Using these strictly guesstimations, I found I had good SWR across the > entire 20 meter band with about 1.7:1 on the edges. I mounted it on an > 8' aluminum mast which was also connected to the shield side of the coax. > > I got on with my little Yaesu FT-840 and in 5 minutes I had a pileup of > stations wanting an explanation for my report of an 18" vertical. I > guess the efficiency must have been only a couple of percent. But, > there it was, the smallest possible vertical for 20 meters! I worked > about 15 countries that afternoon with it. > > Doug -- K0DXV > > Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: >> I'd like to be clear when I wrote earlier that a small transmitting loop is >> very inefficient. >> >> I didn't mean they don't work, only that they only radiate a small part of >> the RF applied to them compared to a larger antenna. >> >> Consider a typical mobile "whip" antenna. They're terribly inefficient too >> but people get out with them, sometimes working DX when band conditions are >> good. >> >> Of course mobiles generally run more than the 10 watts or so a K2 produces, >> but contacts are made with QRP power and such antennas all the time. >> >> One way to make a given antenna "larger" is to use a higher frequency band. >> It's a matter of the antenna's size in wavelengths or fractions thereof that >> is important. That's why small antennas do so much better when the sunspots >> are active and the higher frequency bands are open. >> >> Ron AC7AC >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim AB3CV
Here http://carconline.blogspot.com/2009/01/coaxial-cable-40m-tunable-magnetic-loop.html is a link to an interesting article about a magnetic loop made from coaxial cable that uses the capacitance between the braid and the inner to tune it. You vary the frequency by compressing or expanding the braid, securing it with a wooden clothes peg. I love high technology! I'm sure the number of joints in the assembly must make a measurable difference but I'm not convinced that it would make one that is very noticeable by ear. To anyone who is put off building a magnetic loop because they don't think they can manage bending or soldering copper pipe or can't get a split stator capacitor I'd say just get on and build one with what you have. It'll work a lot better than miracle whips and other small portable antennas and will cost a lot less to make than any of them also.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
> I'd like to be clear when I wrote earlier that a small
> transmitting loop is > very inefficient. And I'd like to emphasise that this thread is about physically small "magnetic loops", not fullsize quad or delta type loops which are efficient radiators with relatively high radiation resistance, in my experience. I have used fullwave wire loops on 80, 40 and 30m for both TX and RX with great success. By the way, I don't know if it's the same with magnetic loops but the fullwave loops radiate mostly "broadside" to the plane of the loop. If the loop is vertically oriented (e.g hanging between two trees), the polarization of the signal is determined by whether the loop is fed at a horizontal or vertical section of wire. If the entire loop is laid 'flat on its back', most of the radiation heats the ground, some heats the clouds but I'm uncertain what polarization the signal would be - probably horizontal I guess since all the wire is parallel to the ground but I may be wrong. 73 Gary ZL2iFB ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Hi Gary, Seems to me that you are right on with all but the very last part... and that may need some investigation, with relation to the DDRR antenna.. that is a loop, and horizontal, over a very good ground. Just a thought.... --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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That's not really true. The DDRR is NOT a loop antenna. The DDRR is a very short vertical with top loading contributed by a shorted transmission line (formed by the horizontal loop and the ground plane). Check the field polarization .... 73, Dave AB7E ------Original Mail------ From: "Dale Putnam" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> Sent: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:01:22 -0600 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Magnetic Loops Hi Gary, Seems to me that you are right on with all but the very last part... and that may need some investigation, with relation to the DDRR antenna.. that is a loop, and horizontal, over a very good ground. Just a thought.... --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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G3LDR made one as a roof rack many years ago; designed for 20m as I recall.
David G3UNA That's not really true. The DDRR is NOT a loop antenna. The DDRR is a very short vertical with top loading contributed by a shorted transmission line (formed by the horizontal loop and the ground plane). Check the field polarization .... 73, Dave AB7E Hi Gary, Seems to me that you are right on with all but the very last part... and that may need some investigation, with relation to the DDRR antenna.. that is a loop, and horizontal, over a very good ground. Just a thought.... --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I think I saw the article for that one myself, or at least a similar one by somebody else. I guess very low profile would be the major advantage of one for mobiling, but almost anything else would be a better choice for any other application. I actually built a DDRR about 40 years ago (for 20m, I think) comprised of wire laid out on the floor of my apartment in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. That was back when it was still touted as a "Directional Discontinuity Ring Radiator" ... an erroneous description akin to the silliness of the more recent EH antenna claims. I pumped 100 watts into my DDRR and made several contacts, but the RF burns it put out if I got too close to it were very painful. 73, Dave AB7E ------Original Mail------ From: "David Cutter" <[hidden email]> To: "Dave - AB7E" <[hidden email]>, <[hidden email]>, <[hidden email]>, <[hidden email]> Sent: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 06:51:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Magnetic Loops G3LDR made one as a roof rack many years ago; designed for 20m as I recall. David G3UNA That's not really true. The DDRR is NOT a loop antenna. The DDRR is a very short vertical with top loading contributed by a shorted transmission line (formed by the horizontal loop and the ground plane). Check the field polarization .... 73, Dave AB7E Hi Gary, Seems to me that you are right on with all but the very last part... and that may need some investigation, with relation to the DDRR antenna.. that is a loop, and horizontal, over a very good ground. Just a thought.... --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Gary Hinson
With magnetic loops most of the radiation is in the plane of the loop, and it's vertical polarization if the loop is vertical. But there is not much directivity. There are nulls axially through the centre of the loop but they are extremely sharp. The polarization also changes to the horizontal as you move round to the side too. According to MFJ if you can get it up high enough you can mount their magnetic loops horizontal and get omnidirectional horizontal polarization with nulls straight up and down. It's interesting switching between the magnetic loop and a dipole, sometimes the dipole has the stronger signal and sometimes the loop. A receive magnetic loop would make an inexpensive and easy to make antenna for diversity reception for those who have the 2nd RX in their K3.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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I recently discovered the source of a very annoying noise in my K3. When
unplugging the USB cable from my USB hub the noise in the receiver disappears. How do I get rid of this? I am using HRD, so a connection to my PC is really needed... 73's Svend, OZ7UV ____________________________________________________________ TDC Bredbånd for 0 kr. - Spar 695 kr. Se http://tdc.dk/freemailtilbud/ Denne mail er sendt via Mail på TDC Online - Læs mere om TDC's mailtjeneste på http://mail.tdconline.dk/ ____________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Svend, have you tried isolating the K3 and USB hub by using chokes on all of
the K3's inputs and outputs and the USB hub's outputs plus power adaptor input? 73 de James K2QI On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:38 AM, Svend Spanget <[hidden email]> wrote: > I recently discovered the source of a very annoying noise in my K3. When > unplugging the USB cable from my USB hub the noise in the receiver > disappears. > How do I get rid of this? I am using HRD, so a connection to my PC is > really needed... > 73's Svend, OZ7UV > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > TDC Bredbånd for 0 kr. > - Spar 695 kr. Se http://tdc.dk/freemailtilbud/ > > Denne mail er sendt via Mail på TDC Online > - Læs mere om TDC's mailtjeneste på http://mail.tdconline.dk/ > ____________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > -- 73 de James K2QI ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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In reply to this post by Gary Hinson
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
Hi All,
A friend of mine here locally once did quite a bit of modeling for loops. He determined that setting up a loop vertically was easier than he expected. Horizontal loops are difficult here in the desert. Anyway, his modeling disclosed that the horizontal height of a vertical loop (full wave) only needed to be about 30 degrees to start being quite effective. In other words, a 40 meter vertical loop only needed to be about 11 or 12 feet high on each end, with the rest of the loop run horizontally. This is not all that difficult to do with readily available supports. Of course, the bottom of the loop should be off the ground as much as possible, so the total vertical height should be something more than just 11 or 12 feet. Vertical loops are quite directional, but they have a lower take-off angle for DXing. Smaller magnetic loops may have similar tendencies. I know it is important to get them up off the ground as much as possible, and I have always had much better results using them vertically as opposed to horizontally. I built a couple of these things from magazine articles, and they do work. It's hard though, to imagine the efficiency being all that great. Nevertheless, they are fun to play with, and not too difficult to make yourself. Bill Jones, KD7S, had a very good article in QST some years back which really gives you a lot of important info about doing various things to make the antenna as efficient as possible. His "trombone" capacitor was very interesting, but I haven't tried that yet. I would think that apartment dwellers, hopefully having a balcony, might have some real fun tinkering with these antennas. If you are high enough off the ground you might get decent results using the loop horizontally. A low RPM motor to tune the capacitor makes life easier too. I bought one from Edmund Scientific, and it worked very well. The tuning will be extremely sharp however. I was never able to go more than a few khz without having to retune. Dave W7AQK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian, G4ILO" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 1:35 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Magnetic Loops > > > > Gary Hinson wrote: >> >> By the way, I don't know if it's the same with magnetic loops but the >> fullwave loops radiate mostly "broadside" to the plane of the loop. >> If the loop is vertically oriented (e.g hanging between two trees), >> the polarization of the signal is determined by whether the loop is >> fed at a horizontal or vertical section of wire. If the entire loop >> is laid 'flat on its back', most of the radiation heats the ground, >> some heats the clouds but I'm uncertain what polarization the signal >> would be - probably horizontal I guess since all the wire is parallel >> to the ground but I may be wrong. >> >> > > With magnetic loops most of the radiation is in the plane of the loop, and > it's vertical polarization if the loop is vertical. But there is not much > directivity. There are nulls axially through the centre of the loop but > they > are extremely sharp. The polarization also changes to the horizontal as > you > move round to the side too. > > According to MFJ if you can get it up high enough you can mount their > magnetic loops horizontal and get omnidirectional horizontal polarization > with nulls straight up and down. > > It's interesting switching between the magnetic loop and a dipole, > sometimes > the dipole has the stronger signal and sometimes the loop. A receive > magnetic loop would make an inexpensive and easy to make antenna for > diversity reception for those who have the 2nd RX in their K3. > > ----- > Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. > * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com > * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html > * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/Re%3A-Magnetic-Loops---Stan-tp3378914p3383267.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by K2QI
> I recently discovered the source of a very annoying noise in my K3. When
> unplugging the USB cable from my USB hub the noise in the receiver > disappears. I had posted on this topic a couple weeks ago. I didn't discover my own noise problem until I was looking at the noise floor with a SDR-IQ and SpectraVue software. In my case, most of the noise from the USB-to-RS232 adapter is masked by band noise. I managed to wind 10-turns of the USB adapter cable through a 0.75-inch I.D. #31 ferrite core. The choke was placed as close as possible to the DB-9 connector. After winding, I detected no change which is unusual when using these cores. It may be that the noise is induced in differential mode between the USB adapter and the K3. I ended up discarding the adapter and went with a serial cable connected between the K3 and the one and only RS232 serial port on my PC. Problem solved. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Svend Spanget
You've found the noise source; now find a way to eliminate or replace it.
Does your USB hub use a wall-wart power supply? Some of these are noisy. Maybe you have another USB port on your computer to which you can connect the KUSB directly, bypassing the hub? Also, some USB hubs work OK with the PS disconnected, depending on the current demands of attached devices. /Rick N6XI On 8/4/09, Svend Spanget <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I recently discovered the source of a very annoying noise in my K3. When > unplugging the USB cable from my USB hub the noise in the receiver > disappears. > How do I get rid of this? I am using HRD, so a connection to my PC is > really needed... > 73's Svend, OZ7UV > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > TDC Bredbånd for 0 kr. > - Spar 695 kr. Se http://tdc.dk/freemailtilbud/ > > Denne mail er sendt via Mail på TDC Online > - Læs mere om TDC's mailtjeneste på http://mail.tdconline.dk/ > ____________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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