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Re: News from Visalia!

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John Fritze

Re: News from Visalia!

I agree, yes please, a remote-able, weatherproofed 500W tuner (capable
of 160-6m) would create an instant order here too. I have relied on
SGC tuners for many years, mobile, marine mobile and now at my small
suburban plot where I have a custom DX engineering 50+ foot vertical
with 40 radials. The beauty of SGC tuners is they only require a 12v
source. In every situation these tuners have performed flawlessly in
harsh environments for years. I was planning on getting a 500W Tokyo
Hi Power amp at Dayton this year, but seeing the Elecraft amp, I will
wait. The problem is that no one makes a 160-6M remote weather proof
tuner capable of 500-600 watts which only needs 12v. SGC's 500 watt
tuner doesn't do 160M according to their specs. What's a space poor
ham to do?
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Guy, K2AV

Re: News from Visalia!

On an empathetic note... Can Elecraft come up a price-appropriate
tuner design that will survive hams at 500 watt RTTY?

In the midst of trying to concoct a remote home brew tuner to put
160-30 meters on a 135 foot end-fed wire, the calculator and equations
starting telling me that voltages and currents that would have to be
switched under power could run over 10 kV or 20 amps, depending on
frequency, at 1.5 kW.

IF there were a bullet-proof, ham-proof way of insuring that contacts
were NEVER, EVER switched under power, some things could be done. But
I can't figure out how to keep ME from doing that when I'm really
stupid at the end of a contest.

There is a point at which bulletproof tuner designs seem to warp into
an entire new expensive component universe. Depending on the engineer
and personal or commercial risk tolerance, and whether that might be
RTTY or not, that power level is 200-400 watts. After that you are
talking Collins Radio kind of commercial/military grade designs with
motors, vacuum relays and capacitors. Less than that and one is frying
stuff that is perfectly satisfactory at 200-400 watts.

The commercial risk is obvious. Burned contacts will always be blamed
on the manufacturer. If he can't design something that can't burn, for
a price a customer is willing to pay, what's the point.

Go out and price a pair of motor driven vacuum variable capacitors big
enough to cover the variation on 160m and with the voltage rating to
stand up to tuning antennas at voltage nodes. Gak.

Sigh.

Kind of like the sound barrier, not impossible but definitely a new
mode beyond it.

The one possible work-around is an Elecraft tuner that will not work
unless hooked up to an Elecraft amp and a Kx via proprietary protocol
so it knows whether it is QRO or not and can seamlessly drop out of
QRO for tuning. Something like how the K2 and the KPA100 work.

73, Guy.

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 11:06 AM, John Fritze <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree, yes please, a remote-able, weatherproofed 500W tuner (capable
> of 160-6m) would create an instant order here too. I have relied on
> SGC tuners for many years, mobile, marine mobile and now at my small
> suburban plot where I have a custom DX engineering 50+ foot vertical
> with 40 radials. The beauty of SGC tuners is they only require a 12v
> source. In every situation these tuners have performed flawlessly in
> harsh environments for years. I was planning on getting a 500W Tokyo
> Hi Power amp at Dayton this year, but seeing the Elecraft amp, I will
> wait. The problem is that no one makes a 160-6M remote weather proof
> tuner capable of 500-600 watts which only needs 12v. SGC's 500 watt
> tuner doesn't do 160M according to their specs. What's a space poor
> ham to do?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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n7ws

Re: News from Visalia!

Sounds trivial to me. You must have *some* switch closure or logic signal that activates the PA. Lock out all tuner adjustments when the PA is on.

--- On Sun, 4/18/10, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] News from Visalia!
> To: "John Fritze" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 3:22 PM
> On an empathetic note... Can
> Elecraft come up a price-appropriate
> tuner design that will survive hams at 500 watt RTTY?
>
> In the midst of trying to concoct a remote home brew tuner
> to put
> 160-30 meters on a 135 foot end-fed wire, the calculator
> and equations
> starting telling me that voltages and currents that would
> have to be
> switched under power could run over 10 kV or 20 amps,
> depending on
> frequency, at 1.5 kW.
>
> IF there were a bullet-proof, ham-proof way of insuring
> that contacts
> were NEVER, EVER switched under power, some things could be
> done. But
> I can't figure out how to keep ME from doing that when I'm
> really
> stupid at the end of a contest.
>
> There is a point at which bulletproof tuner designs seem to
> warp into
> an entire new expensive component universe. Depending
> on the engineer
> and personal or commercial risk tolerance, and whether that
> might be
> RTTY or not, that power level is 200-400 watts. After
> that you are
> talking Collins Radio kind of commercial/military grade
> designs with
> motors, vacuum relays and capacitors. Less than that and
> one is frying
> stuff that is perfectly satisfactory at 200-400 watts.
>
> The commercial risk is obvious. Burned contacts will
> always be blamed
> on the manufacturer. If he can't design something that
> can't burn, for
> a price a customer is willing to pay, what's the point.
>
> Go out and price a pair of motor driven vacuum variable
> capacitors big
> enough to cover the variation on 160m and with the voltage
> rating to
> stand up to tuning antennas at voltage nodes. Gak.
>
> Sigh.
>
> Kind of like the sound barrier, not impossible but
> definitely a new
> mode beyond it.
>
> The one possible work-around is an Elecraft tuner that will
> not work
> unless hooked up to an Elecraft amp and a Kx via
> proprietary protocol
> so it knows whether it is QRO or not and can seamlessly
> drop out of
> QRO for tuning. Something like how the K2 and the KPA100
> work.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 11:06 AM, John Fritze <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > I agree, yes please, a remote-able, weatherproofed
> 500W tuner (capable
> > of 160-6m) would create an instant order here too. I
> have relied on
> > SGC tuners for many years, mobile, marine mobile and
> now at my small
> > suburban plot where I have a custom DX engineering 50+
> foot vertical
> > with 40 radials. The beauty of SGC tuners is they
> only require a 12v
> > source. In every situation these tuners have
> performed flawlessly in
> > harsh environments for years. I was planning on
> getting a 500W Tokyo
> > Hi Power amp at Dayton this year, but seeing the
> Elecraft amp, I will
> > wait. The problem is that no one makes a 160-6M
> remote weather proof
> > tuner capable of 500-600 watts which only needs 12v.
> SGC's 500 watt
> > tuner doesn't do 160M according to their specs.
> What's a space poor
> > ham to do?
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604

Re: News from Visalia!

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:22:02 -0400
From: Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>
<much deleted>

The one possible work-around is an Elecraft tuner that will not work
unless hooked up to an Elecraft amp and a Kx via proprietary protocol
so it knows whether it is QRO or not and can seamlessly drop out of
QRO for tuning. Something like how the K2 and the KPA100 work.

That's what the TBD ACC2 connector could do, provide handshaking for
an external ATU so that it would be operated in low-stress
configurations. That ATU doesn't have to come from Elecraft, though.
LDG has certainly made automatic tuners that work with Icom's
(more or less undocumented) tuner protocol, even making model numbers
sorta match i.e. AT-7000.

73, doug

back home again, CA 198 to CA 25 to slab.
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Phil Salas

Re: News from Visalia!

In reply to this post by n7ws

"Sounds trivial to me. You must have *some* switch closure or logic signal
that activates the PA. Lock out all tuner adjustments when the PA is on."

Or conversely, disable the amp before tuning starts. That's the way my
MFJ-998 autotuner works. The amp-enable signal goes thru the MFJ-998. So
when the tuner wants to tuen, the first thing it does is interrupt the
amp-key line.

Phil - AD5X

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