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Re: P3 Turn On Flash

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Ed G

Re: P3 Turn On Flash

Hello,
I have also experienced the turn on flash on my PX3. Now that some
others have posted about it on the P3, I will note that I find it just a tad
annoying, and I prefer to look away from the screen when I turn on the PX3.
I do not know if anything is being overstressed (I'm not familiar with the
specs, whether the display and/or backlight are being run at max voltages,
etc). I finally found a way to use my iphone camera's burst feature, and
posted a short series of photos of my PX3 turning on:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/KX3/photos/albums/1409683511
The photos seem to show a short very bright flash, followed by a decreasing
intensity, then a transition to the boot loader message, then a further
transition to the operating display. I would also note the pictures seem to
support the impression that the turn on intensity is brighter than the
whites seen in the operating display. Even if the turn on flash does not
detract from overall component lifetime, the designers might want to see if
it could be suppressed to help polish the overall operating experience of
the analyzers, while giving tired old eyes a break.
--Ed, N3CW--

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Steve Ellington-2

Re: P3 Turn On Flash

From my research:
I believe all of these LED/LCD displays run the LED back-light at full
blast continuously. The LCD blocks the light per the video data however on
the P3, the LED back-light comes on before the LCD has time to block
it...Thus the flash effect.
It probably won't hurt anything but does light up a dark room rather
abruptly.

Steve N4LQ

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Ed G <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
> I have also experienced the turn on flash on my PX3. Now that some
> others have posted about it on the P3, I will note that I find it just a
> tad
> annoying, and I prefer to look away from the screen when I turn on the PX3.
> I do not know if anything is being overstressed (I'm not familiar with the
> specs, whether the display and/or backlight are being run at max voltages,
> etc). I finally found a way to use my iphone camera's burst feature, and
> posted a short series of photos of my PX3 turning on:
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/KX3/photos/albums/1409683511
> The photos seem to show a short very bright flash, followed by a decreasing
> intensity, then a transition to the boot loader message, then a further
> transition to the operating display. I would also note the pictures seem
> to
> support the impression that the turn on intensity is brighter than the
> whites seen in the operating display. Even if the turn on flash does not
> detract from overall component lifetime, the designers might want to see if
> it could be suppressed to help polish the overall operating experience of
> the analyzers, while giving tired old eyes a break.
> --Ed, N3CW--
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
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Juliean Galak

P3 vs. other panadapter options

I'm planning on getting a K3s and am wondering about panadapters. There's obviously the P3, but there are also the computer-based I new like the lp-pan, or using an sdr. I kind of like having one less box on the desk - there'll be a computer there no matter what. How's the quality of these solutions compared to the p3? Especially the integration?

Thanks,
Juliean
KD2JPF
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Wes (N7WS)

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

I tried the LP-Pan once. It was OK but became two boxes by the time I had a
decent external soundcard. I detested the then available PowerSDR software.
Probably better now, but I use an SDR-IQ and SpectraVue* software. Interfaces
perfectly with the K3/K3S. Gives both a spectrum and waterfall display, point
and click tuning and demodulation if you like (I don't). The software knows all
of the K3 i-f offsets and corrects the frequency display automatically. I have
two of them, one on my K3 and another on the K3S.

The SDR-IQ is out of production now but used ones show up frequently. It's been
replaced with the Cloud-IQ which is double the price of the going rate for an
SDR-IQ. The Cloud-IQ uses Ethernet instead of USB so I'm unclear about
interfacing with the K3, even though SpectraVue is still used. I use LP-Bridge
for USB port sharing between my logging programs, the SDR and the K3s.

*SpectraVue is to me, straightforward. I have yet to find any other SDR
software that is easily understood and used by a normal human being.

On 12/24/2015 9:47 AM, Juliean Galak wrote:
> I'm planning on getting a K3s and am wondering about panadapters. There's obviously the P3, but there are also the computer-based I new like the lp-pan, or using an sdr. I kind of like having one less box on the desk - there'll be a computer there no matter what. How's the quality of these solutions compared to the p3? Especially the integration?
>
> Thanks,
> Juliean
> KD2JPF
>

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N1EU

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

In reply to this post by Juliean Galak

Juliean, IMHO the quality is comparable between P3/SVGA and LP-PAN/NaP3.
Here's an image from an LP-PAN/NaP3 panadapter that I used a while back on
an Orion:
http://www.tentecwiki.org/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=&media=orionpan3.jpg

The big issue is whether you want to deal with the computer interface side
of LP-PAN/NaP3 and the necessary port-sharing if you also want to use a
CAT-connected logging program. You'll also need to get all the settings
right in NaP3 for the panadapter calibration to be accurate in all modes.

The big advantage of NaP3 over other LP-PAN software options is the
integral telnet connection that will paint a bandmap superimposed on the
spectral display.

73, Barry N1EU

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Juliean Galak <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm planning on getting a K3s and am wondering about panadapters. There's
> obviously the P3, but there are also the computer-based I new like the
> lp-pan, or using an sdr. I kind of like having one less box on the desk -
> there'll be a computer there no matter what. How's the quality of these
> solutions compared to the p3? Especially the integration?
>
> Thanks,
> Juliean
> KD2JPF
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Steve Ellington-2

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

In reply to this post by Juliean Galak

I've had both over the past 8 years with the K3:

Computer bases system advantages:
1. Cheaper. $300 - $500
2. Better resolution potential but depends on which SDR or sound card you
choose.
3. Point and click with mouse
4. Band changing from screen

Computer based disadvantages:
1. Cabling complexity i.e. external sound card + LP-Pan. Sound card can be
eliminated with a Fun Cube Dongle.
2. Total dependency on computer.
3. Requires a serial port which mandates using a virtual serial port
program such as LP-Bridge is you want to use a logging program at the same
time.
4. Computer must be fast enough to keep up with NAP3's requirements. I use
a quad core, I7 and 12gb of ram. You could do with less but I know this
works. This will certainly increase the CPU load on your computer.
5. Unless you have 2 monitors you will be constantly frustrated wanting to
see both your log and pan at once.

P3 System advantages
1. Simple connectivity to K3
2. Instant bandscope by simply turning on the K3.
3. Eliminates the need for any computer or software. You really need to
experience this to appreciate it. NAP3 is no longer supported by the author
and is not bug free.
4. Easy interface to a large screen monitor...Even your 65" TV will work
via the optional SVGA adapter.

Note: Not all monitors have VGA inputs therefore the P3 may need an
adapter. I use a VGA to HDMI adapter.

P3 Disadvantages:
1. Expensive $700 to $1000
2. Point and click but requires cranking a knob on the P3...I usually just
tune the K3s manually instead.

Like I stated above....I'm relieved to no longer depend on the computer.
There was always something needing attention and software was really a
pain. I've learned to live the the P3's shortcomings. Now all my computer
needs to do is run the logging program. BTW: I use Logger32 and it allows
using your mouse wheel for tuning anyway.

Steve N4LQ

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Juliean Galak <[hidden email]> wrote:

Steve Zabarnick

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

In reply to this post by Juliean Galak

Actually the big advantage is the combined panadapter and second receiver
that the LP-PAN/NaP3 combination gives.
It can be challenging getting the full 2nd receiver capability working, but
once you do it offers many of the capabilities
(e.g., listening to VFO A and B simultaneously) that would require both the
P3 and the K3 second receiver.

Also, the LP-PAN/NaP3 combination is MUCH less expensive than buying the
P3/KRX3 combination -- $200 to $300 for
the LP-PAN/NaP3 including a quality sound card vs at least $1300 for the
P3/KRX3 combo.

Steve N9SZ

>Juliean, IMHO the quality is comparable between P3/SVGA and LP-PAN/NaP3.
>Here's an image from an LP-PAN/NaP3 panadapter that I used a while back on
>an Orion:
>http://www.tentecwiki.org/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=&media=orionpan3.jpg
>
>The big issue is whether you want to deal with the computer interface side
>of LP-PAN/NaP3 and the necessary port-sharing if you also want to use a
>CAT-connected logging program. You'll also need to get all the settings
>right in NaP3 for the panadapter calibration to be accurate in all modes.
>
>The big advantage of NaP3 over other LP-PAN software options is the
>integral telnet connection that will paint a bandmap superimposed on the
>spectral display.
>
>73, Barry N1EU

Jim Brown-10

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

On Thu,12/24/2015 11:04 AM, zabarnick . wrote:
> Also, the LP-PAN/NaP3 combination is MUCH less expensive than buying the
> P3/KRX3 combination -- $200 to $300 for the LP-PAN/NaP3 including a quality sound card vs at least $1300 for the P3/KRX3 combo.

You're forgetting the cost of the computer and the sound card. My
experience has been that NaP3 and other SDR software burns a fair amount
of computer horsepower. Many of us use a vintage computer in our shacks
for general logging, digital encode/decode, and contest logging. In my
experience, I can't successfully add NaP3 to a vintage box that is
handling all of those other functions quite well.

73, Jim K9YC
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Steve Zabarnick

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

In reply to this post by Steve Zabarnick

I've seen lots of used LP-PAN's being sold with a sound card for under
$200. A new LP-PAN is $250 and a good sound card can be found for
under $70. As far as the computer goes, I'm running NaP3 on a 2008
vintage E8600 processor (simultaneously running AC Log, NaP3, CC User,
LP-Bridge, DigiPan, MMTTY, and CW Get). Any computer less than ten
years old should be up to the job (A fast enough computer can be
purchased for less than the price of a KIO3B :-).

Steve N9SZ

>You're forgetting the cost of the computer and the sound card. My
>experience has been that NaP3 and other SDR software burns a fair amount
>of computer horsepower. Many of us use a vintage computer in our shacks
>for general logging, digital encode/decode, and contest logging. In my
>experience, I can't successfully add NaP3 to a vintage box that is
>handling all of those other functions quite well.
>
>73, Jim K9YC

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 2:04 PM, zabarnick . <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Actually the big advantage is the combined panadapter and second receiver
> that the LP-PAN/NaP3 combination gives.
> It can be challenging getting the full 2nd receiver capability working,
> but once you do it offers many of the capabilities
> (e.g., listening to VFO A and B simultaneously) that would require both
> the P3 and the K3 second receiver.
>
> Also, the LP-PAN/NaP3 combination is MUCH less expensive than buying the
> P3/KRX3 combination -- $200 to $300 for
> the LP-PAN/NaP3 including a quality sound card vs at least $1300 for the
> P3/KRX3 combo.
>
> Steve N9SZ
>
> >Juliean, IMHO the quality is comparable between P3/SVGA and LP-PAN/NaP3.
> >Here's an image from an LP-PAN/NaP3 panadapter that I used a while back on
> >an Orion:
> >http://www.tentecwiki.org/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=&media=orionpan3.jpg
> >
> >The big issue is whether you want to deal with the computer interface side
> >of LP-PAN/NaP3 and the necessary port-sharing if you also want to use a
> >CAT-connected logging program. You'll also need to get all the settings
> >right in NaP3 for the panadapter calibration to be accurate in all modes.
> >
> >The big advantage of NaP3 over other LP-PAN software options is the
> >integral telnet connection that will paint a bandmap superimposed on the
> >spectral display.
> >
> >73, Barry N1EU
>
>

David Gilbert

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Even if you add in the cost of a computer and a top notch sound card
you're still about half the cost of the P3 set. You can buy a pretty
powerful refurbished computer for less than $300, and a monitor for less
than $100.

Also, try running CW Skimmer or any third party SDR software (current or
future) on a P3.

Dave AB7E

On 12/24/2015 12:18 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
> You're forgetting the cost of the computer and the sound card. My
> experience has been that NaP3 and other SDR software burns a fair
> amount of computer horsepower. Many of us use a vintage computer in
> our shacks for general logging, digital encode/decode, and contest
> logging. In my experience, I can't successfully add NaP3 to a vintage
> box that is handling all of those other functions quite well.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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Dick Dickinson

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

In reply to this post by Juliean Galak

The LP-Pan will work fine with some of the more recent motherboard based
soundcards. Check for quality and bandwitdth.

73,

Dick - KA5KKT

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RobertG

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

In reply to this post by Juliean Galak

I use LP-Pan2 with a M-Audio 96k sound card internal to the computer.
Software is NaP3v4. The screen [for all applications] is a 21" LG. The
computer is an DIY AMD 2.1Ghz cpu, 2G ram, running Win7-64 [it's pretty
long in the tooth]. I use a microHam CW keyer interface with its Router
port-sharing software. Contest logging is N1MM. So...

The choice of LP-Pan is dictated by space requirements; no room for
another box at the operating position. So, my choice is not based on A-B
comparisons/performance. Otherwise, all K-line station.

I have never had any problems with the computer supporting LP-Pan and
its software, N1MM, and browser all at the same time. I can fit all of
the necessary and desired optional windows for all software on the
screen during a contest. NaP3 has never given me any trouble albeit it's
no longer supported by its author. No question that getting LP-Pan setup
and running is more demanding than the P3 which, so I hear, is pretty
much a turnkey operation. That said, once online, the LP-Pan setup is
stable and runs constantly throughout a 48hr contest without a hitch. In
contests, I run the NaP3 display at around 14"x4" on the LG monitor -
very pretty and helpful. Some use a dedicated monitor for their
panadapter; however, I have not found that necessary to provide the info
that I "need" during a contest. Issues of cost are an individual matter.

How one balances all these parameters is, again, an individual matter.
Either way ends up with a useful tool. I can't imagine operating without
a panadapter at this point. So, prepare to get "hooked."

...robert

On 12/24/2015 16:47, Juliean Galak wrote:

> I'm planning on getting a K3s and am wondering about panadapters. There's obviously the P3, but there are also the computer-based I new like the lp-pan, or using an sdr. I kind of like having one less box on the desk - there'll be a computer there no matter what. How's the quality of these solutions compared to the p3? Especially the integration?
>
> Thanks,
> Juliean
> KD2JPF
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Hisashi T Fujinaka

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

In reply to this post by Juliean Galak

I'm a fan of just turning on the radio and having it going before a
computer has the chance to boot up. But then again, I always have a
computer running so I'm not sure why that is.

On Thu, 24 Dec 2015, Juliean Galak wrote:

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - [hidden email]
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
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ae4pb

Re: P3 vs. other panadapter options

In reply to this post by RobertG

I run and SDR with Ham Radio Deluxe. The SDR software connect to Ham Radio
Deluxe directly without using a port. I use a second monitor with my laptop
no second sound card needed as the SDR comes directly in via USB and does
it's work.
I get all of the benefits of Point and click. Since I use a laptop for
logging and radio control anyway it's a nice setup.
Jer

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert
G Strickland
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 6:44 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 vs. other panadapter options

I use LP-Pan2 with a M-Audio 96k sound card internal to the computer.
Software is NaP3v4. The screen [for all applications] is a 21" LG. The
computer is an DIY AMD 2.1Ghz cpu, 2G ram, running Win7-64 [it's pretty long
in the tooth]. I use a microHam CW keyer interface with its Router
port-sharing software. Contest logging is N1MM. So...

The choice of LP-Pan is dictated by space requirements; no room for another
box at the operating position. So, my choice is not based on A-B
comparisons/performance. Otherwise, all K-line station.

I have never had any problems with the computer supporting LP-Pan and its
software, N1MM, and browser all at the same time. I can fit all of the
necessary and desired optional windows for all software on the screen during
a contest. NaP3 has never given me any trouble albeit it's no longer
supported by its author. No question that getting LP-Pan setup and running
is more demanding than the P3 which, so I hear, is pretty much a turnkey
operation. That said, once online, the LP-Pan setup is stable and runs
constantly throughout a 48hr contest without a hitch. In contests, I run the
NaP3 display at around 14"x4" on the LG monitor - very pretty and helpful.
Some use a dedicated monitor for their panadapter; however, I have not found
that necessary to provide the info that I "need" during a contest. Issues of
cost are an individual matter.

How one balances all these parameters is, again, an individual matter.
Either way ends up with a useful tool. I can't imagine operating without a
panadapter at this point. So, prepare to get "hooked."

...robert

On 12/24/2015 16:47, Juliean Galak wrote:
> I'm planning on getting a K3s and am wondering about panadapters. There's
obviously the P3, but there are also the computer-based I new like the
lp-pan, or using an sdr. I kind of like having one less box on the desk -
there'll be a computer there no matter what. How's the quality of these
solutions compared to the p3? Especially the integration?

>
> Thanks,
> Juliean
> KD2JPF
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
[hidden email]
Syracuse, New York, USA
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