Re: P3 vs Sub RX

[Dave Barr-2]

I worked K1N on RTTY using my K3 using the sub rx to find "holes". No
P3, although a may get one.  The method I use is to run a second MMTTY
window fed by the sub rx output on the audio right channel, an easy set
up in MMTTY.  While it only gives a 3 or 4 khz spectrum, it is helpful,
so I was able to find that "hole".  Oh, yeah, I was running one watt, so
there was a hole.  So I guess I vote for the sub rx first.

Dave, K2YG

On 3/10/2015 7:31 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 12:26:24 -0600
> From: "Don Butler"<[hidden email]>
> To: "'Nick - VE3EY'"<[hidden email]>, "'Rick WA6NHC'"
> <[hidden email]>
> Cc: 'Elecraft'<[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] (Mini)P3 v SubRX
> Message-ID:<000001d05b5f$b756e390$2604aab0$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I find both the K3 subreceiver and P3 very helpful in cracking DX pileups.
> Without the subreceiver it's really not that big of a deal to toggle back
> and forth between VFOs to monitor the pileup, but it's still much better
> when the subreceiver is available and turned on with a wide filter setting.
> I find myself "watching" the pileup much more than "listening" to it
> nowadays, so I'd definitely pick the panapter first if I had to choose one
> option only.
>
> I posted a link to a similar video a few weeks ago, but this 10 minute video
> is different and shows how I was able to continuously find K1N's listening
> frequency while he was working a 20+ KC wide pileup  .... and when he
> started getting louder to me I fired up my amp and worked him with just a
> few calls.  Take  a Look:
>
> https://vimeo.com/119076467/settings
>
> Don, N5LZ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Nick -
> VE3EY
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 10:46 AM
> To: Rick WA6NHC
> Cc: Elecraft
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] (Mini)P3 v SubRX
>
> // When I'm not traveling, I DX (sometimes I*am*  the DX).
>
> On this topic, maybe I can hijack the thread but it still pertains the P3
> functionality.
>
> I also occasionally travel down to Caribbean and operate CQ WW from places.
> I would love to have the pan-adapter handy when faced with pileups.  Here
> are some possible benefits:
>
> - You have a visual picture of how large your pile is and it makes it easier
> to steer clear from congested areas.
> - You have a visual picture of your own TX FQ.  You will know soon enough
> once lids start causing trouble on your TX frequency so that evasive actions
> can be taken.
> - Sometimes there is another pileup going on below or above your frequency.
> If the callers trying to work someone else overlap with your own,your rate
> takes a dive as you find yourself answering folks who are actually not
> calling you.
>
> In my case, P3 is too big (volume-wise) and there is no space to fit it in
> carry on suitcase along with K3, PSU, Cables, Laptop, Keyer etc.
>
> By looking at parts list from P3 manual, perhaps we can significantly shrink
> the depth of the unit by making the Top, Bottom and Side panels (E100362,
> E100363, and E100361) shorter if Elecraft would be willing to manufacture
> and provide such kit.  We always have an option to use the hacksaw but it
> would not look pretty:-)
>
> 73,  Nick
> ve3ey
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Rick WA6NHC<[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> >You're preachin to da choir son.  Fine job though.
>> >
>> >K1N was awful for DQRM, lids and untrained idiots.  3G0ZC the next
>> >week wasn't quite as bad, nor as rare.  E30FB is rough here on the
>> >West Coast due to lack of signal strength, conditions and the same
>> >crowds.  You can't hear, what isn't there.
>> >
>> >I see that problem cause as twofold:  Lack of noobs seeking an Elmer
>> >for proper training NOT covered adequately in the classes or tests;
>> >Lack of folks willing to become an Elmer to guide the newcomers.
>> >That's WAY off topic for here.
>> >
>> >Putting in perspective and back on topic; the P3 was almost totally
>> >useless for K1N, except to watch and measure the height and width of
>> >the pileup (there WERE no holes to utilize in that pack).  What you
>> >said is very true, the subreceiver helped, about as much because of
>> >the reasons you stated too.  Together however, is still a deadly
>> >combination, by watching the (group of) signal(s) on the P3 that the
>> >DX is working, quickly tuning the receiver to the most likely being
>> >worked and confirming by ear, they allowed me to gain 13 Q's with K1N
>> >on a low dipole and some power (it's all in the DX pattern
>> >recognition, if they're not purposely avoiding a pattern).  The other
>> >operating style was simply work the edges of the pileup, don't be in the
> middle.
>> >
>> >P3 and KRX3 in 'normal' DX collecting... fish:barrel.  They are the
>> >sole reason I have 250 'entities' in the log over the last couple
>> >years.  When I'm not traveling, I DX (sometimes I*am*  the DX).  Oh
>> >yes, the KPA500 helps, a LOT since I'm on a sole dipole.
>> >
>> >I don't see things improving in the ranks, so anyone looking at the
>> >purchase of the K Line should simply keep the budget open ended and
>> >collect everything as they can.  P3 first (plan on the SVGA card too,
>> >your eyes will never improve), then a KRX3, then flesh it out with more.
>> >
>> >Let's look at your budget too.  The P3/SVGA combo costs versus the
>> >KRX3 with filters (mine are all filled the same in both, for diversity
>> >and to minimize what my failing ears are subjected to when listening
>> >in two places).  Add in that you'll have to replace the Synth card
>> >when you add the KRX3 (or obtain two used ones, storing the new one
>> >for later, but why) and I suspect that financially as well, the
>> >P3/SVGA will be more reachable first.
>> >
>> >That's my best reasoning for the P3 and why it should be first. It's
>> >the better of the two choices and it's more financially obtainable.
>> >
>> >Whatever you choose, good luck and good hunting.
>> >
>> >Rick wa6nhc
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On 3/9/2015 6:02 PM, Randy Farmer wrote:
>> >
>>> >>I would agree that the P3 should probably take priority over the
>>> >>Subreceiver for a new buy, mostly due to the many different things it
>>> >>can do for you. But... my experience this weekend trying to work
>>> >>E30FB on 20 CW sure made me glad I had the Sub. I would never have
>>> >>worked them using just the scope.
>>> >>
>>> >>Problem is, it seems the way people try to work DX these days makes
>>> >>it virtually impossible to depend on a visual cue to know who's being
>>> >>worked by the DX if there's a pileup of any size at all. E30FB had
>>> >>the pile spread out for better than 20 kHz, and the scope showed a
>>> >>constant morass of signals all across the entire span. Aside from the
>>> >>obliviots who continually send their call whether the DX is listening
>>> >>or not, there are many who apparently see nothing wrong with coming
>>> >>back or continuing to call when the DX operator replies to a call that
> obviously isn't theirs.
>>> >>Every time E30FB would answer a complete call there were dozens of
>>> >>perfectly timed signals that jumped up all across the extent of the
> pileup.
>>> >>Luckily, using the second receiver I managed to stumble on to one
>>> >>that turned out to actually be the guy he was working. A minute or
>>> >>two of careful listening around that frequency revealed the
>>> >>operator's tuning pattern, and after just a couple of calls I was in the
> log too.
>>> >>
>>> >>If you really want to work rare DX these days you're going to NEED
>>> >>the second receiver. This isn't due to any problems with the
>>> >>capabilities of the P3 -- it's the result of operating practices that
>>> >>continue to deteriorate. You'll need all the tools you can get and
>>> >>all the cunning you can muster to work DX through the Doofus curtain
> these days.
>>> >>
>>> >>73...
>>> >>Randy, W8FN

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