Re: PAR endz-fed

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Re: PAR endz-fed

Randy Cook

I am using the 40m EndzFed at my QTH.  It slopes from 10 ft outside my  
shack to 40 ft up into a redwood tree. I do not have a lot  
configuration for a decent 40M dipole.  Although not recommended by  
PAR, I have worked stations on 60 and 80 meters with it using the K3  
autotuner.

I cannot compare the performance to other wires, however, the unit is  
well made and has survived two winters and summers fine. It worked  
well with my previous Yaesu rig, and seems to be fine with my new K3.  
No rare DX, but I can usually work 'em if I can hear them.  Support is  
very good, questions answered quickly.


Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:49:12 -0500
From: "Chuck Pridgen" <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] K1 ANTENNA
To: <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <C32DC7C04B1A43879C15DC5CA56267AC@LENOVO03E76884>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

HOW MANY OF YOU ARE USING PAR ELECTRONICS END FEDS WITH YOU K1 OR  
OTHER ELECRAFTS.

I WOULD LIKE INPUT ON HOW THEY HAVE WORKED FOR YOU, AND HOW YOU HAVE  
MOUNTED THEM.

I AM INTERESTED IN USING THEM AT THE BEACH THIS SUMMER.

THANKS, CHUCK N4UED



Randy Cook
[hidden email]




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Re: PAR endz-fed

Buck - k4ia
I have used a PAR end fed with my K1 at the  beach. I feed it at the top and
run it from the condo balcony down at a slope to  somewhere I can tie it off
where no one will run into it.  It works very  well - better than an Outback
vertical attached to the balcony.  So far, no  one has complained and no one has
tried to pull it down.  The K1 auto tuner  will tune it to other bands and it
works but I am sure the efficiency is  compromised.

Buck
k4ia


In a message dated 3/2/2009 1:17:07  P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

I am using the 40m  EndzFed at my QTH.  It slopes from 10 ft outside my  
shack to 40  ft up into a redwood tree. I do not have a lot  
configuration for a  decent 40M dipole.  Although not recommended by  
PAR, I have  worked stations on 60 and 80 meters with it using the K3  
autotuner.

I cannot compare the performance to other wires, however,  the unit is  
well made and has survived two winters and summers fine.  It worked  
well with my previous Yaesu rig, and seems to be fine with  my new K3.  
No rare DX, but I can usually work 'em if I can hear  them.  Support is  
very good, questions answered  quickly.


Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:49:12 -0500
From: "Chuck  Pridgen" <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] K1  ANTENNA
To: <[hidden email]>
Message-ID:  <C32DC7C04B1A43879C15DC5CA56267AC@LENOVO03E76884>
Content-Type:  text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"

HOW MANY OF YOU ARE  USING PAR ELECTRONICS END FEDS WITH YOU K1 OR  
OTHER  ELECRAFTS.

I WOULD LIKE INPUT ON HOW THEY HAVE WORKED FOR YOU, AND HOW  YOU HAVE  
MOUNTED THEM.

I AM INTERESTED IN USING THEM AT THE  BEACH THIS SUMMER.

THANKS, CHUCK N4UED



Randy  Cook
[hidden email]


**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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Re: PAR endz-fed

W5CEM
In reply to this post by Randy Cook
I used a 10/20/40 last year at FD with good results. Usually "if I could hear 'em, I could work 'em" was true, with the QRP caveat. Top about 35ft. in the air, bottom just a few feet off the ground.  This was before I had my K3, but used the T1 with my FT817 and even used it on six meters for a few contacts.  Dale says do not use a tuner, but just couldn't let those Q's get away.  I plan on taking it out for a spring checkup soon with the K3 and internal tuner.

If you are using a K1 just buy the three band model and it could be a fun summer holiday.  

cleve/W5CEM
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Re: PAR endz-fed

Jim-168
In reply to this post by Randy Cook
Randy, I have experimented with 1/4 wave slopers here with good success.
Just wish the Par's would handle legal limit.

73 de KE4WY Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Randy Cook
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:16 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PAR endz-fed


I am using the 40m EndzFed at my QTH.  It slopes from 10 ft outside my  
shack to 40 ft up into a redwood tree. I do not have a lot  
configuration for a decent 40M dipole.  Although not recommended by  
PAR, I have worked stations on 60 and 80 meters with it using the K3  
autotuner.

I cannot compare the performance to other wires, however, the unit is  
well made and has survived two winters and summers fine. It worked  
well with my previous Yaesu rig, and seems to be fine with my new K3.  
No rare DX, but I can usually work 'em if I can hear them.  Support is  
very good, questions answered quickly.


Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:49:12 -0500
From: "Chuck Pridgen" <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] K1 ANTENNA
To: <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <C32DC7C04B1A43879C15DC5CA56267AC@LENOVO03E76884>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

HOW MANY OF YOU ARE USING PAR ELECTRONICS END FEDS WITH YOU K1 OR  
OTHER ELECRAFTS.

I WOULD LIKE INPUT ON HOW THEY HAVE WORKED FOR YOU, AND HOW YOU HAVE  
MOUNTED THEM.

I AM INTERESTED IN USING THEM AT THE BEACH THIS SUMMER.

THANKS, CHUCK N4UED



Randy Cook
[hidden email]




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Re: PAR endz-fed

Tom McCulloch
In reply to this post by Randy Cook
Chuck

If your antenna is over salt water (even if that water in under the sand
which is under your operating position) you are going to be a VERY happy
ham.  ANYTHING strung up of salt water will give absolutely fantastic
results!

Have fun with the PAR or anything else you use under those condx.
Tom
wb2qdg
k2 1103


> >
>
> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:49:12 -0500
> From: "Chuck Pridgen" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] K1 ANTENNA
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <C32DC7C04B1A43879C15DC5CA56267AC@LENOVO03E76884>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> HOW MANY OF YOU ARE USING PAR ELECTRONICS END FEDS WITH YOU K1 OR
> OTHER ELECRAFTS.
>
> I WOULD LIKE INPUT ON HOW THEY HAVE WORKED FOR YOU, AND HOW YOU HAVE
> MOUNTED THEM.
>
> I AM INTERESTED IN USING THEM AT THE BEACH THIS SUMMER.
>
> THANKS, CHUCK N4UED
>
>
>
> Randy Cook
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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Re: PAR endz-fed

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Randy Cook
On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:16:27 -0800, Randy Cook wrote:

>HOW MANY OF YOU ARE USING PAR ELECTRONICS END FEDS

This is a VERY easy antenna to build. Why would anyone want to buy
what they can build in an hour for a fraction of the cost? See

http://audiosystemsgroup.com/NCDXACoaxChokesPPT.pdf

One half of the dipole is a quarter-wavelength of wire, connected to
the center conductor of the coax feedline. One quarter-wave from the
end where the wire is connected you add a ferrite choke that
functions as an "end insulator" for the coax, which makes the
section of the coax between the wire and the choke the other half of
the dipole. You do NOT apply a velocity factor when determining the
length of the coax between the wire and the choke.

If you're running 100W or less, the choke can be as simple as 10
turns of the coax around two 2.4-inch o.d. toroids, #31 or #43! I
used much bigger chokes to run 1.5kW. For 20W or less, a single
toroid is plenty.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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Re: PAR endz-fed

J.H. de Wit
In reply to this post by W5CEM
And the K1 and KX1 tunes it on all bands! (of course with the built-in
tuners)

73 de John pa0wit

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Namens W5CEM
Verzonden: maandag 2 maart 2009 20:36
Aan: [hidden email]
Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] PAR endz-fed


I used a 10/20/40 last year at FD with good results. Usually "if I could
hear
'em, I could work 'em" was true, with the QRP caveat. Top about 35ft. in the
air, bottom just a few feet off the ground.  This was before I had my K3,
but used the T1 with my FT817 and even used it on six meters for a few
contacts.  Dale says do not use a tuner, but just couldn't let those Q's get
away.  I plan on taking it out for a spring checkup soon with the K3 and
internal tuner.

If you are using a K1 just buy the three band model and it could be a fun
summer holiday.  

cleve/W5CEM
--
View this message in context:
http://n2.nabble.com/Re%3A-PAR-endz-fed-tp2410802p2411177.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: PAR endz-fed

AC7AC
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
CONTENTS DELETED
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Re: PAR endz-fed

David Gilbert
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Hi, Jim.

I had thought about that concept years ago when I was doing more casual
QRP portable operation (camping, Flight of the Bumblebee-type stuff,
etc), but I never tried it because I just assumed that the impedance at
the end of a "dipole" (i.e., where the choke would be on the coax) was
so high that you wouldn't get much decoupling at that point.  Have you
been able to verify that a simple choke really blocks the shield current
there?  Or am I misunderstanding something?

73,
Dave   AB7E



Jim Brown wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:16:27 -0800, Randy Cook wrote:
>
>  
>> HOW MANY OF YOU ARE USING PAR ELECTRONICS END FEDS
>>    
>
> This is a VERY easy antenna to build. Why would anyone want to buy
> what they can build in an hour for a fraction of the cost? See
>
> http://audiosystemsgroup.com/NCDXACoaxChokesPPT.pdf
>
> One half of the dipole is a quarter-wavelength of wire, connected to
> the center conductor of the coax feedline. One quarter-wave from the
> end where the wire is connected you add a ferrite choke that
> functions as an "end insulator" for the coax, which makes the
> section of the coax between the wire and the choke the other half of
> the dipole. You do NOT apply a velocity factor when determining the
> length of the coax between the wire and the choke.
>
> If you're running 100W or less, the choke can be as simple as 10
> turns of the coax around two 2.4-inch o.d. toroids, #31 or #43! I
> used much bigger chokes to run 1.5kW. For 20W or less, a single
> toroid is plenty.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim Brown K9YC
>
>  
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Re: PAR endz-fed

Dave-K7DAA
In reply to this post by AC7AC
For those that may be newer on the list that would like to see an  
example of a good homebrew 1/2 wave end fed setup, here's a good one  
(with pictures and schematic) on the QRP ARCI site.  It was posted by  
Steve Yates, AA5TB:

http://www.qrparci.org/content/view/59/55/

I've used a slight variation of this, and it works quite well for me  
on 20 meters.  For wire, I used a hunk of the nice and light 28 Ga.  
copper-coated steel wire that The Wireman sells.  Note that you can  
also make this with a toroidal transformer instead of the solenoidal  
coil setup shown--saves a lot of space.  I put mine inside an old  
plastic 35mm film container I had long ago tossed in a drawer.  When  
my wife saw the finished item, she said she finally understood why I  
saved "junk" like that!

72,

Dave - K7DAA


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Re: PAR endz-fed

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by AC7AC
Ron,

A few quibbles with your analysis. First, the antenna that I have described is
a simple half wave dipole, fed at a current maxima. The only tricky part is
the power rating of the choke that serves as the end insulator. My choke is
NOT a matching element, it an end insulator!  

Second, this antenna interacts with surrounding objects (including the earth)
just as any dipole would if hung in the same position, NOT as a ground mounted
vertical would. The major loss in a ground-mounted vertical is due to
resistive losses due to return currents flowing in the lossy earth, which can
be made very small by adding enough radials. In MY antenna, the return
currents are entirely within the antenna.

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:20:33 -0800, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

>The PAR End-Fedz (Par's spelling) is a Fuchs type antenna; an end fed 1/2
>wave radiator.  

>Its advantage over shorter radiators is that it requires very little ground,
>if any, since it's fed at a voltage loop. Efficiency is not compromised by a
>mediocre ground as is so common with radiators 1/4 wave or less in length
>because virtually no current need flow into a ground system.

>If it's mounted vertically it will still have the induced ground losses all
>verticals have

NO! Verticals have "ground losses" if the earth is what's carrying return
current and terminating the field. In the antenna we're describing, the
outside of the coax acts as the other half of the dipole, so it carries the
return current and terminates the field!  

BUT -- for this antenna to work, the quarter-wave length of the feedline
between the wire and the choke must be in the air (and the higher the better)
-- that is, it is part of the antenna!  This antenna can be vertical,
horizontal, or sloping. It can even turn corners.  If, for example, you were
to toss it out the window of an upper floor and into a tree, it would act just
like any other center fed dipole of the same length at the same height!  

Another point about "ground losses."  The earth serves a second function with
any antenna -- it acts as a reflector for the field that the antenna
generates, and the interaction of the reflected field adds (algebraically)
with the direct field to form the antenna's vertical pattern. The BEST that
the reflection can do is add 6 dB at low angles. If the earth is lossy, the
reflection is weaker, which makes the lower angle parts of the pattern weaker.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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Re: PAR endz-fed

Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
Jim Brown wrote on Monday, March 02, 2009, at 11:09 PM:

> A few quibbles with your analysis. First, the antenna that I have
> described is
> a simple half wave dipole, fed at a current maxima. The only tricky part
> is
> the power rating of the choke that serves as the end insulator. My choke
> is
> NOT a matching element, it an end insulator!

If a resonant trap is placed at the bottom end instead of a choke as an
insulator, whose coil is the outer of a coiled length of the feeder, with
the trap's capacitor connected to the outer of of the coax at each end of
the coil of coax, the phase relationship between two driven vertical dipoles
can be fine tweaked over a limited range. The scheme that you use also makes
feeding a half-square at a top corner from the bottom practical, without a
separate feeder going to a top corner which could distort the antenna's
pattern.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD




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Re: PAR endz-fed

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by David Gilbert
>Have you been able to verify that a simple choke really blocks the
>shield current there?

Yes, it works -- IF the choke has a sufficiently high impedance.

>Or am I misunderstanding something?

No. You can see another way to do this on N6LF's website.

73,

Jim K9YC


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Re: PAR endz-fed

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 00:15:04 -0000, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote:

>If a resonant trap is placed at the bottom end instead of a choke as an
>insulator,

A coaxial choke wound on a ferrite core IS a parallel resonant circuit.
Properly done, the choke should be wound to place the resonant frequency
where the antenna will be operated!  Study the references I cited in the
earlier post.  

As to your other suggestions -- yes, this method of feeding opens up many
interesting possibilities!  

73,

Jim K9YC


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Re: PAR endz-fed

Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy

Jim Brown wrote on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 at 12:59 AM

> A coaxial choke wound on a ferrite core IS a parallel resonant circuit.
> Properly done, the choke should be wound to place the resonant frequency
> where the antenna will be operated!  Study the references I cited in the
> earlier post.

Yes, I take your point. It is the fine tweaking of phase that I find easier
to do with a capacitor!!

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD

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Re: PAR endz-fed

Don Wilhelm-4
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Folks,

I fail to see the advantage of constructing an end fed dipole with coax
for half of the antenna - it requires a choke that has a parallel
resonant frequency equal to the operating frequency, and the overall
length is a half wavelength.

I believe it is much easier to construct a half wave radiating section
and make up a parallel resonant circuit using discrete components - wind
a wire around some kind of form (PVC, 35mm film container, etc) and tune
it to resonance with a capacitor.  The transition to 50 ohm coax can be
either a link or a tap on the coil.  YMMV.

My preference for portable operation is a balanced dipole fed with 300
ohm ladder line.  The radiator length is not critical - I use 44 feet
(22 feet per side) for 40 thru 10m and carry clip-on extensions 22 feet
long if I need to cover 80 meters.  The feedline attached to the antenna
is 25 feet long and I carry an additional 25 foot length of 300 ohm line
if the 25 foot length is not sufficient to reach from the antenna to the
transmitter.  It can be strung as an inverted VEE when there is only one
support (I use a 32 ft telescoping pole), or it can be a vertical -
string it up alongside the fiberglass pole, or if two supports are
available, it can be deployed as a horizontal dipole, or use it as a
sloper - just get the wire in the air as high as possible using whatever
works best.  A switchable 1:1/4:1 balun at the transmitter end of the
feedline completes the antenna - use whichever setting provides the best
match to the auto-tuner, it will vary depending on the deployment method.

There is no "magic" in antennas, the laws of physics cannot be defeated
no matter what the antenna manufacturer's advertising hype may say.  If
you can mount the antenna in the clear and can feed power to it, it will
radiate, and it need not be expensive - add up the cost of 44 feet of
wire and 50 feet of 300 ohm feedline and compare the result to the price
of a constructed (or kit) antenna.

73,
Don W3FPR

Jim Brown wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 00:15:04 -0000, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote:
>
>  
>> If a resonant trap is placed at the bottom end instead of a choke as an
>> insulator,
>>    
>
> A coaxial choke wound on a ferrite core IS a parallel resonant circuit.
> Properly done, the choke should be wound to place the resonant frequency
> where the antenna will be operated!  Study the references I cited in the
> earlier post.  
>
> As to your other suggestions -- yes, this method of feeding opens up many
> interesting possibilities!  
>
> 73,
>
> Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 03/01/09 17:46:00
>
>  
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Re: PAR endz-fed

Mike WA8BXN

 
 I think a dipole fed with balanced line is the best choice as a primary
antenna, it works well on multiple bands with a good balanced tuner. Or even
a dipole fed with coax, but then you are limited to a single band (unless
you parallel multiple dipoles with a single feedline which works very well).
My primary antenna is an 80 meter dipole fed with ladder line. But at the
same time I have enough land to put up another antenna, but I would like to
locate it at some distance from my primary antenna. For this reason an end
fed half wave dipole as being described does seem to be interesting. It
would be a single band resonant antenna that could conveniently located a
fair distance from the shack.

Anything can be made to radiate, many things are more efficient than others.
I guess it all depends on what one has to work with. While some antennas may
be considered to be optimal, getting up what ever one can and making
contacts with it can be a lot of fun too.

73/72 - Mike WA8BXN
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Re: PAR endz-fed

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:48:03 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote:

>I fail to see the advantage of constructing an end fed dipole with coax
>for half of the antenna

The advantage is if it solves a particular rigging problem that you
encounter.

73,

Jim K9YC


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Re: PAR endz-fed

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Randy Cook
On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 07:28:12 -0500, Matt Palmer wrote:

>I've been thinking of building one of these to play with, do you have
>any ideas on how to stress relieve the point where you solder the wire
>to the coax? This seems to be the weak link in the chain.

I use the inexpensive dipole insulator sold by The Wireman. It has the
additional advantage of being weatherproof.

73,

Jim K9YC


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Re: PAR endz-fed

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 01:53:19 -0000, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote:

>Yes, I take your point. It is the fine tweaking of phase that I find easier
>to do with a capacitor!!

Please tell me how you would do that with this antenna! :)   The "tweaking"
involved requires nothing more than looking at my measured data and winding the
choke to put the resonance where you want it. It isn't very "tweaky" -- the Q
of a choke like this is around 0.5.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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