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Re: Rig forCW

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Rig forCW

Good Morning, I have a simple but difficult question for the CW ops.

I’m wanting to get back to ham radio and specifically CW. Since I’m starting from scratch I am looking hard at all equipment needed to get on the air. I’ve ordered supplies to assemble a 40M inverted V and have been thinking the best first rig I ought to order would be a KX2. Now reading the posts on this forum I see that 95% of the ops use the KX3s.

Would anyone please like to educate me on these very unbalanced rig ownership numbers?

Thank you, Tommy2

> *****************************************

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Rig forCW

I have both rigs and mostly use just the basic stuff for home and camping CW/SSB QRP contacts so the KX2 works, BUT The KX2 isn’t much of a cost savings over the KX3 and the KX3 has a lot more features. The only reason I would choose the KX2 again is if I was backpacking and size/weight were important. The KX2 was “so cute” I had to have one and ran to the booth at Dayton the next morning after Eric’s introductory lecture about it at FDIM to purchase #34 from him. It’s a fun rig, works well, but if you can have only one get the KX3.

And as a side note the Elecraft antenna tuners, in rigs or separately can’t be beat. They will tune a wet noodle if that is needed for your ham radio experience. They almost make you think your really lousy antenna is the greatest because they will tune it, but again, if the results aren’t what you want it’s probably a poor antenna and the tuner is making it look better than it is. Make a good antenna first and then use a tuner to take the pressure off your finals or expand the bandwidth.

Dave K8WPE

David J. Wilcox K8WPE’s iPad

> On May 12, 2020, at 7:37 AM, Tommy Judson via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Good Morning, I have a simple but difficult question for the CW ops.
>
> I’m wanting to get back to ham radio and specifically CW. Since I’m starting from scratch I am looking hard at all equipment needed to get on the air. I’ve ordered supplies to assemble a 40M inverted V and have been thinking the best first rig I ought to order would be a KX2. Now reading the posts on this forum I see that 95% of the ops use the KX3s.
>
> Would anyone please like to educate me on these very unbalanced rig ownership numbers?
>
> Thank you, Tommy2
>
>> *****************************************
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Rig forCW

Thanks Dave,

Your points parallel my thinking. Just want to have all the ducks in a row before pulling the trigger on an order.

I especially agree with the last sentence…make a good antenna first...

> On May 12, 2020, at 6:51 AM, David Wilcox <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have both rigs and mostly use just the basic stuff for home and camping CW/SSB QRP contacts so the KX2 works, BUT The KX2 isn’t much of a cost savings over the KX3 and the KX3 has a lot more features. The only reason I would choose the KX2 again is if I was backpacking and size/weight were important. The KX2 was “so cute” I had to have one and ran to the booth at Dayton the next morning after Eric’s introductory lecture about it at FDIM to purchase #34 from him. It’s a fun rig, works well, but if you can have only one get the KX3.
>
> And as a side note the Elecraft antenna tuners, in rigs or separately can’t be beat. They will tune a wet noodle if that is needed for your ham radio experience. They almost make you think your really lousy antenna is the greatest because they will tune it, but again, if the results aren’t what you want it’s probably a poor antenna and the tuner is making it look better than it is. Make a good antenna first and then use a tuner to take the pressure off your finals or expand the bandwidth.
>
> Dave K8WPE
>
> David J. Wilcox K8WPE’s iPad
>
>> On May 12, 2020, at 7:37 AM, Tommy Judson via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Good Morning, I have a simple but difficult question for the CW ops.
>>
>> I’m wanting to get back to ham radio and specifically CW. Since I’m starting from scratch I am looking hard at all equipment needed to get on the air. I’ve ordered supplies to assemble a 40M inverted V and have been thinking the best first rig I ought to order would be a KX2. Now reading the posts on this forum I see that 95% of the ops use the KX3s.
>>
>> Would anyone please like to educate me on these very unbalanced rig ownership numbers?
>>
>> Thank you, Tommy2
>>
>>> *****************************************
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

W0FK

Re: Rig forCW

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

The KX3 allows you to add roofing filters (KXFL3 option), wherease kx2 does
not.

“ The KXFL3 is actually 4 different filters that are shared between Phone
and CW modes. Containing 2 filters for each mode, the filters switch points
are:
CW Mode: 500 hz and 1500 hz
Phone mode: 1800 hz and your choice of 2400 or 2900, menu configurable”

If the kx3 is your main radio, and your focus is CW, having the ability to
add narrow passband filtering is essential.

Are you planning to run more power than 10-15 watts? If so, adding
capabilities up to 100 watts via an external amp is pretty simple. If you’re
going to be adding more power, and don’t plan on using the portability of
the kx3, consider a used K3/100 which has a lot more flexibility for narrow
roofing filters, 100 amps built in and an easier path to adding a kw amp.

73, Lou, W0FK

-----
St. Louis, MO

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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St. Louis, MO

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Ted Roycraft-3

Re: Rig forCW

Or maybe pick up a used K3.

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 8:44 AM W0FK <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The KX3 allows you to add roofing filters (KXFL3 option), wherease kx2 does
> not.
>
> “ The KXFL3 is actually 4 different filters that are shared between Phone
> and CW modes. Containing 2 filters for each mode, the filters switch
> points
> are:
> CW Mode: 500 hz and 1500 hz
> Phone mode: 1800 hz and your choice of 2400 or 2900, menu configurable”
>
> If the kx3 is your main radio, and your focus is CW, having the ability to
> add narrow passband filtering is essential.
>
> Are you planning to run more power than 10-15 watts? If so, adding
> capabilities up to 100 watts via an external amp is pretty simple. If
> you’re
> going to be adding more power, and don’t plan on using the portability of
> the kx3, consider a used K3/100 which has a lot more flexibility for narrow
> roofing filters, 100 amps built in and an easier path to adding a kw amp.
>
> 73, Lou, W0FK
>
>
>
> -----
> St. Louis, MO
>
> "The difference between stupidity and genius is that
> genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

ve3gmz

Re: Rig forCW

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

May be there are more kx3 users because the kx3 was introduced long before the kx2 and we kx3 users love them. The only reason to have a kx2 over a kx3 is size and weight, and maybe curiosity.

Brian VE3GMZ

Sent via BlackBerry Hub+ Inbox for Android

Original Message

From: [hidden email]
Sent: May 12, 2020 7:53 a.m.
To: [hidden email]
Reply to: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Rig forCW

I have both rigs and mostly use just the basic stuff for home and camping CW/SSB QRP contacts so the KX2 works, BUT The KX2 isn’t much of a cost savings over the KX3 and the KX3 has a lot more features. The only reason I would choose the KX2 again is if I was backpacking and size/weight were important. The KX2 was “so cute” I had to have one and ran to the booth at Dayton the next morning after Eric’s introductory lecture about it at FDIM to purchase #34 from him. It’s a fun rig, works well, but if you can have only one get the KX3.

And as a side note the Elecraft antenna tuners, in rigs or separately can’t be beat. They will tune a wet noodle if that is needed for your ham radio experience. They almost make you think your really lousy antenna is the greatest because they will tune it, but again, if the results aren’t what you want it’s probably a poor antenna and the tuner is making it look better than it is. Make a good antenna first and then use a tuner to take the pressure off your finals or expand the bandwidth.

Dave K8WPE

David J. Wilcox K8WPE’s iPad

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AI4NS

Re: Rig forCW

In reply to this post by W0FK

Newer LDMOS amps don’t need much input power to develop full output. I am
building a 600W amp that needs about 3watts input. My KX3 will do
just fine. In fact I had an input attenuator made that will allow full
power from the KX3 drive the amp at full power. I also have a K3/10.

Mike
AI4NS

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 07:44 W0FK <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
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Brian Short-4

Re: Rig forCW

In reply to this post by ve3gmz

I bought a used KX3 with the tuner and roofing filter a couple years ago.
I also bought an attachable paddle from QRPguys. I have not been
looking, but I see very few KX2s for sale used. I guess if you are ordering
(a new one) that isn't a consideration.

I am not out camping or traveling right now, but my KX3 isn't for sale.

Good luck.

On May 12, 2020, at 6:18 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> May be there are more kx3 users because the kx3 was introduced long before the kx2 and we kx3 users love them. The only reason to have a kx2 over a kx3 is size and weight, and maybe curiosity.
>
> Brian VE3GMZ
>
> David J. Wilcox K8WPE’s iPad
>
>> On May 12, 2020, at 7:37 AM, Tommy Judson via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Good Morning, I have a simple but difficult question for the CW ops.
>>
>> I’m wanting to get back to ham radio and specifically CW. Since I’m starting from scratch I am looking hard at all equipment needed to get on the air. I’ve ordered supplies to assemble a 40M inverted V and have been thinking the best first rig I ought to order would be a KX2. Now reading the posts on this forum I see that 95% of the ops use the KX3s.
>>
>> Would anyone please like to educate me on these very unbalanced rig ownership numbers?
>>
>> Thank you, Tommy

--
http://www.qrz.com/db/k7on

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W0FK

Re: Rig forCW

In reply to this post by AI4NS

AI4NS wrote
> Newer LDMOS amps don’t need much input power to develop full output. I am
> building a 600W amp that needs about 3watts input. My KX3 will do
> just fine. In fact I had an input attenuator made that will allow full
> power from the KX3 drive the amp at full power. I also have a K3/10.
>
> Mike
> AI4NS

That's fine for a homebrewed amp, but the FCC's 15dB gain limitation on
commercial amps makes the input power from a QRP rig like the KX3 limiting
relative to output power.

73, Lou, W0FK

-----
St. Louis, MO

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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St. Louis, MO

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Rig forCW

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Bet everyone will second your ‘Right On’ note Ray!

> On May 12, 2020, at 9:18 AM, Ray Grace - WA6OWM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> DE WA6OWM
> About the Elecraft ATU
>
> To: Dave, K8WPE
> Your comments in the second paragraph are ‘Right On’ Best message in email in years.
> Ray – WA6OWM
> KX3 w/ATU, stand alone Elecraft T1 ATU (used with Flex Radio 1500.
>
> “And as a side note the Elecraft antenna tuners, in rigs or separately can’t be beat. They will tune a wet noodle if that is needed for your ham radio experience. They almost make you think your really lousy antenna is the greatest because they will tune it, but again, if the results aren’t what you want it’s probably a poor antenna and the tuner is making it look better than it is. Make a good antenna first and then use a tuner to take the pressure off your finals or expand the bandwidth. “

Buck

Re: Rig forCW

In reply to this post by Ted Roycraft-3

A used K3 would be my recommendation if you don't need portability. The
K3 is still one of the finest radios ever made and can run the full 100
watts when QRP just won't cut it.

k4ia, Buck
K3s# 11497
Honor Roll 8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 5/12/2020 9:06 AM, Ted Roycraft wrote:

> Or maybe pick up a used K3.
>
> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 8:44 AM W0FK <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The KX3 allows you to add roofing filters (KXFL3 option), wherease kx2 does
>> not.
>>
>> “ The KXFL3 is actually 4 different filters that are shared between Phone
>> and CW modes. Containing 2 filters for each mode, the filters switch
>> points
>> are:
>> CW Mode: 500 hz and 1500 hz
>> Phone mode: 1800 hz and your choice of 2400 or 2900, menu configurable”
>>
>> If the kx3 is your main radio, and your focus is CW, having the ability to
>> add narrow passband filtering is essential.
>>
>> Are you planning to run more power than 10-15 watts? If so, adding
>> capabilities up to 100 watts via an external amp is pretty simple. If
>> you’re
>> going to be adding more power, and don’t plan on using the portability of
>> the kx3, consider a used K3/100 which has a lot more flexibility for narrow
>> roofing filters, 100 amps built in and an easier path to adding a kw amp.
>>
>> 73, Lou, W0FK
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> St. Louis, MO
>>
>> "The difference between stupidity and genius is that
>> genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Rig forCW

On 5/12/2020 8:11 AM, Buck wrote:
> A used K3 would be my recommendation if you don't need portability. The
> K3 is still one of the finest radios ever made

I agree. The KX3 is a fine radio, but the K3 is much easier to use if
you want to do modes other than CW and SSB. In today's world, digital
modes have become quite popular, in large part because they make it
possible to work through the greatly increased noise levels present
where most of us live.

and can run the full 100
> watts

The base K3 is a 15W radio. The 100W amp in a K3/100 is an option.

> when QRP just won't cut it.

I work a lot of QRP, but I also work a lot at 1.5 kW.

My first recommendation would be a used K3/100 if you don't need the
compactness of the KX3, but study the options that are installed. Some
options are no longer available from Elecraft. Get advice from a K3
owner if you don't understand the details.

73, Jim K9YC

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Rig forCW

On 2020-05-12 2:46 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
> My first recommendation would be a used K3/100 if you don't need the
> compactness of the KX3, but study the options that are installed. Some
> options are no longer available from Elecraft.

My recommendation would be the K3/K3S *unless* you *never* planned to
operate at more than 10W. The KX2/KX3 with KPA100 has significantly
more phase noise than the K3/K3S at 100W and when run through another
external amplifier (KPA500/KPA1500/etc.).

The KX3 has transmitted phase noise at (approximately) -122 dBc (@ 10
KHz) where the K3/K3S is (approximately) -135dBc (@ 10 KHz). This
data is from the ARRL Labs as reported in the reviews of the specific
rigs.

Bottom line, the KX3/KPA100 (at 100 W) will have as much transmitted
phase noise as the K3S/KPA1500 (at the legal limit)!

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2020-05-12 2:46 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 5/12/2020 8:11 AM, Buck wrote:
>> A used K3 would be my recommendation if you don't need portability.
>> The K3 is still one of the finest radios ever made
>
> I agree. The KX3 is a fine radio, but the K3 is much easier to use if
> you want to do modes other than CW and SSB. In today's world, digital
> modes have become quite popular, in large part because they make it
> possible to work through the greatly increased noise levels present
> where most of us live.
>
> and can run the full 100
>> watts
>
> The base K3 is a 15W radio. The 100W amp in a K3/100 is an option.
>
>> when QRP just won't cut it.
>
> I work a lot of QRP, but I also work a lot at 1.5 kW.
>
> My first recommendation would be a used K3/100 if you don't need the
> compactness of the KX3, but study the options that are installed. Some
> options are no longer available from Elecraft. Get advice from a K3
> owner if you don't understand the details.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Steve Anness

Re: Rig forCW

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Hello Tommy,

I just wanted to add. As a KX2 owner, if you did go with the KX2 you would
not be unsatisfied if your desires were to operate QRP on 10-80 meters and
planned to do portable work. Otherwise I would tend to agree with the
others, the K3 is an excellent choice, I have used them in guest-op
situations for contesting many times and they are fantastic radios. For
the record, I considered the KX3 for a long time but opted for the KX2
because at the time I thought I would be doing way more portable ops, using
it at home for QRP digital, some SSB and now adding CW into the mix I have
been very pleased with it, take that for what it is worth. Sherwood puts
the KX3 pretty high on the list, upgrading probably doesn't make sense for
me but for a home station starting with the KX3 probably makes a lot of
sense.

Cheers,

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 1:47 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5/12/2020 8:11 AM, Buck wrote:
> > A used K3 would be my recommendation if you don't need portability. The
> > K3 is still one of the finest radios ever made
>
> I agree. The KX3 is a fine radio, but the K3 is much easier to use if
> you want to do modes other than CW and SSB. In today's world, digital
> modes have become quite popular, in large part because they make it
> possible to work through the greatly increased noise levels present
> where most of us live.
>
> and can run the full 100
> > watts
>
> The base K3 is a 15W radio. The 100W amp in a K3/100 is an option.
>
> > when QRP just won't cut it.
>
> I work a lot of QRP, but I also work a lot at 1.5 kW.
>
> My first recommendation would be a used K3/100 if you don't need the
> compactness of the KX3, but study the options that are installed. Some
> options are no longer available from Elecraft. Get advice from a K3
> owner if you don't understand the details.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm

Re: Rig forCW

Tommy,

The KX2, KX3, and K3 are all fine radios for CW - and data modes and SSB
as well.

Do you want 100 watts - then choose the K3 (or K3S). You can also add
the P3 for a panadapter display.

Do you want something small that you can tote in a backpack, then the
KX2 is the obvious choice. You can use it at home with the KXPA100 for
a 100 watt home station.

Do you want something that is small enough for 'picnic table portable',
but has more buttons and up-front controls than the KX2, then choose the
KX3. It also can serve as a 100 watt home station with the addition of
the KXPA100 and can also be used with the PX3 for a panadapter display.

If you are planning portable work, the internal tuner is a must.
At the home station, if you do not have resonant antennas, then you
should have the internal tuner in the K3/K3S or the KXPA100.

Those are the basics that I can convey, the choice is yours to make
depending on your station aspirations.
Try not to base your decision on price alone - decide what you want and
then proceed from there.

I have the K3 with the P3. KX3 with the PX3 and KXPA100 as well as the
KX2. So I can say that they are all good, but for the home station, I
usually go with the K3 with the KX3/PX3 and KXPA100 (with KXAT100) as an
alternate. The KX2 is reserved for portable operation, and I use it
rarely since I no longer go on hiking ventures.

73,
Don W3FPR

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Bill Frantz

Re: Rig forCW

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

On 5/12/20 at 2:46 PM, [hidden email] (Jim Brown) wrote:

>On 5/12/2020 8:11 AM, Buck wrote:
>>A used K3 would be my recommendation if you don't need
>>portability. The K3 is still one of the finest radios ever made
>
>I agree. The KX3 is a fine radio, but the K3 is much easier to
>use if you want to do modes other than CW and SSB. In today's
>world, digital modes have become quite popular, in large part
>because they make it possible to work through the greatly
>increased noise levels present where most of us live.

I frequently switch modes when operating. With the K3, I only
have to change the mode switch on the radio. It is equally easy
on the KX3 and KX2 between CW and voice, but when going use to
data with an external computer I have to change the phones plug,
the mic plug, and the mic bias. And change them back when I go
the other way. A lot of fiddling. However I can easily carry the
KX3 in my pack.

Note: I have to borrow a KX2 from my wife, so I mostly use the KX3.

I hope the K4 will be as easy to switch between sound card modes
and RTTY as the K3 is between CW/SSB/Data. The K3 involves some
knob twisting.

73 Bill AE6JV

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Airline peanut bag: "Produced | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900 | in a facility that processes | 150
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts." - Duh |
Peterborough, NH 03458

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Bill Rowlett

Re: Rig forCW

If you have your paddles hooked to the kx3, you can work ritty or psk without a computer. Works well.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 12, 2020, at 10:49 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 5/12/20 at 2:46 PM, [hidden email] (Jim Brown) wrote:
>
>>> On 5/12/2020 8:11 AM, Buck wrote:
>>> A used K3 would be my recommendation if you don't need portability. The K3 is still one of the finest radios ever made
>>
>> I agree. The KX3 is a fine radio, but the K3 is much easier to use if you want to do modes other than CW and SSB. In today's world, digital modes have become quite popular, in large part because they make it possible to work through the greatly increased noise levels present where most of us live.
>
> I frequently switch modes when operating. With the K3, I only have to change the mode switch on the radio. It is equally easy on the KX3 and KX2 between CW and voice, but when going use to data with an external computer I have to change the phones plug, the mic plug, and the mic bias. And change them back when I go the other way. A lot of fiddling. However I can easily carry the KX3 in my pack.
>
> Note: I have to borrow a KX2 from my wife, so I mostly use the KX3.
>
> I hope the K4 will be as easy to switch between sound card modes and RTTY as the K3 is between CW/SSB/Data. The K3 involves some knob twisting.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz | Airline peanut bag: "Produced | Periwinkle
> (408)348-7900 | in a facility that processes | 150 Rivermead Rd #235
> www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts." - Duh | Peterborough, NH 03458
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]