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Re: Seeking input on KPA1500 station

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Re: Seeking input on KPA1500 station

Unless you have some of the popular AV/AM software packages running,
that will actively prevent such things.

Don't ask how I know, but we have LAN equipped kit at work, where sadly
due to the AV/AM security software that we have no visibility into, it
intercepts and blocks many LAN protocols and such, that it doesn't know
about.

We have to get IP addresses white listed for them to work, and even then
there are issues. It's easier to use an old PC that has been stripped
of all such nonsense, we just make sure it's never used on the office
LAN itself these days.

That, and if there is a LAN port, you usually need a way to control it's
settings (IP address, Mask, default gateway etc) else you need to use
RARP to find it's IP address from it's MAC address. As per the popular
(and very good) Lantronix product line. But finding an AV/AM package
that will not scream blue murder when it sees RARP being used is another
stumbling block.

Then, there are the potential security issues. How many LAN equipped
bits of kit, have had their IP stack fully vetted and tested to behave
correctly under all situations, plus the products own firmware needs to
be written with security in mind.

There's enough chaos already from consumer IoT things, from light bulbs
to TV/PVR boxes, we don't want similar nonsense in the shack, nor want
Elecraft to become yet another IoT bot target. (Google "mirai botnet"
for an example.)

RS232 works, & is difficult to remotely hijack for malicious purposes.
USB connectivity works too (often emulating legacy com ports etc) and is
easy to implement. There is nothing "Wrong" with LAN ports for control
and I/O etc, but in this day and age, it has to be done perfectly, or
not at all. And doing that is not trivial!

Plus, any "PC software" will need to be cross platform too. NOT just
Windoze. (A Java app perhaps?) Or, fully disclose and publish the
protocol used by the "device" so the rest of us can use it.

Plus, will users who don't even understand simple serial port settings
even get their heads around LAN address settings and such, plus some
people will then want WiFi because they don't like wired LAN systems.
Where do you stop?

Oh, and EMC issues. QRO RF and LAN systems often don't co-exist well,
also LAN cables can, and often do leak QRM, so you'll be needing STP
cables, not exactly low cost. Again, I know this from first hand
experience, at work and play!

Why not use Optical fibre links, and simple RS232 like
commands/responses. RF proof, no radiated EMI, no ground loop issues,
low cost, and 99% of all the needed code probably already exists.
Ready made cables and I/O ports exist (Toslink among others, good enough
for the golden ears brigade, so...)

Just my take on it.

73. Dave G0WBX.

On 17/06/17 15:34, [hidden email] wrote:

> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Seeking input on KPA1500 station
> configurations
>
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Drop the RS232 line totally and have only an IP / Lan connection. This
> will solve so many connectivity issues. With a PC client software, it will
> just find the amplifier.
>
> This is what other Amp vendors are now doing and it is litterly plug and
> play.
>
> The next K-radio should also be LAN aware.
>
> Mike va3mw

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Michael Walker

Re: Seeking input on KPA1500 station

Dave et all

I still believe that Lan/IP is the way to go. The way Flex is doing it
does not require it to be on your active network. It works very well in a
peer to peer connection and it requires zero configuration. Significantly
easier than configuring RS232. The KPA500 software works well, but it have
to have some understanding of IP communication and RS232 configuration to
ensure it works. I use it every day where the Server side of the KPA500
software (and the W2 for that matter) are running, but I then do an IP
connection to that software so I can see it from my main operating station.

1 Lan cable into the Flex radio and to the Amp at the same time. But, if
you want it on your network, then you can do that as well. It is really a
no brainer.

Personally, I have spent so much time debugging RS232 problems for people
and that really surprises me. RS232 is not as plug and play as LAN is.
Today's people clearly understand it better.

Yes, I guess you can have AV issues, but that is more of the exception than
the norm. Yes, if you mark all your NIC cards as Public, you are going to
have to white list everything, but there is no real requirement to have the
firewall turned on for machines behind your routers unless you are a belt
and suspenders person. Certainly having it on on the Ham machines is not
wrong, but is another level of confusion.

A LAN based communications platform opens up the ham shack integration to
an entire new level. I keep saying over and over that Ham Radio as a
hobby is a technical hobby where you are actually examined on your
technical understanding of how radio works, etc. Yet, the overall average
of knowledge of a average ham seems to be going the wrong way where they
understand less just about how things work.

73, Mike va3mw

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Dave B via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Unless you have some of the popular AV/AM software packages running,
> that will actively prevent such things.
>
> Don't ask how I know, but we have LAN equipped kit at work, where sadly
> due to the AV/AM security software that we have no visibility into, it
> intercepts and blocks many LAN protocols and such, that it doesn't know
> about.
>
> We have to get IP addresses white listed for them to work, and even then
> there are issues. It's easier to use an old PC that has been stripped
> of all such nonsense, we just make sure it's never used on the office
> LAN itself these days.
>
> That, and if there is a LAN port, you usually need a way to control it's
> settings (IP address, Mask, default gateway etc) else you need to use
> RARP to find it's IP address from it's MAC address. As per the popular
> (and very good) Lantronix product line. But finding an AV/AM package
> that will not scream blue murder when it sees RARP being used is another
> stumbling block.
>
> Then, there are the potential security issues. How many LAN equipped
> bits of kit, have had their IP stack fully vetted and tested to behave
> correctly under all situations, plus the products own firmware needs to
> be written with security in mind.
>
> There's enough chaos already from consumer IoT things, from light bulbs
> to TV/PVR boxes, we don't want similar nonsense in the shack, nor want
> Elecraft to become yet another IoT bot target. (Google "mirai botnet"
> for an example.)
>
> RS232 works, & is difficult to remotely hijack for malicious purposes.
> USB connectivity works too (often emulating legacy com ports etc) and is
> easy to implement. There is nothing "Wrong" with LAN ports for control
> and I/O etc, but in this day and age, it has to be done perfectly, or
> not at all. And doing that is not trivial!
>
> Plus, any "PC software" will need to be cross platform too. NOT just
> Windoze. (A Java app perhaps?) Or, fully disclose and publish the
> protocol used by the "device" so the rest of us can use it.
>
> Plus, will users who don't even understand simple serial port settings
> even get their heads around LAN address settings and such, plus some
> people will then want WiFi because they don't like wired LAN systems.
> Where do you stop?
>
> Oh, and EMC issues. QRO RF and LAN systems often don't co-exist well,
> also LAN cables can, and often do leak QRM, so you'll be needing STP
> cables, not exactly low cost. Again, I know this from first hand
> experience, at work and play!
>
> Why not use Optical fibre links, and simple RS232 like
> commands/responses. RF proof, no radiated EMI, no ground loop issues,
> low cost, and 99% of all the needed code probably already exists.
> Ready made cables and I/O ports exist (Toslink among others, good enough
> for the golden ears brigade, so...)
>
> Just my take on it.
>
> 73. Dave G0WBX.
>
>
> On 17/06/17 15:34, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Seeking input on KPA1500 station
> > configurations
> >
> >
> > My 2 cents.
> >
> > Drop the RS232 line totally and have only an IP / Lan connection. This
> > will solve so many connectivity issues. With a PC client software, it
> will
> > just find the amplifier.
> >
> > This is what other Amp vendors are now doing and it is litterly plug and
> > play.
> >
> > The next K-radio should also be LAN aware.
> >
> > Mike va3mw
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

kstover

Re: Seeking input on KPA1500 station

All,

I'd be willing to bet nobody in this country or Canada was tested over
how to setup a LAN or Ethernet communications on their Ham Radio exams,
and I'd bet there are a few guys on this board who could teach us all a
thing or two about radio.

RS-232 just isn't that hard and one of the worst LAN fur balls I ever
had to fix was caused by a couple of jabbering NIC's. I access all of
our Routers and Switches with a laptop ,USB to RS-232 adapter and
telnet. It's just not that hard.

The only thing you get when switching from RS-232 to Ethernet is bandwidth.

On 6/18/2017 6:56 AM, Michael Walker wrote:
>
> A LAN based communications platform opens up the ham shack integration to
> an entire new level. I keep saying over and over that Ham Radio as a
> hobby is a technical hobby where you are actually examined on your
> technical understanding of how radio works, etc. Yet, the overall average
> of knowledge of a average ham seems to be going the wrong way where they
> understand less just about how things work.

>

--
R. Kevin Stover AC0H
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441
ARRL
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