Re: W3FPR: RE: KIO2 sends out to pc but doesn't take commands from pc

[James1787]

Gary,

I took some measurements:

You mentioned when the K2 is not sending or receiving data that U1 pin
11 and pin 12 should both be 5 volts. Pin 12 is 5 volts, but Pin 11 is
0 volts. I also verified that U6 Pin 25 is 5 volts and U6 Pin 26 is 0
volts. What could cause U6 Pin 26 to be 0 volts?

U1 Pin 5 is -10 volts, which is within the range you specified.

I verified the serial cable is built exactly to the manual's
instructions. I verified that nothing is crossed by popping off the
covers on each end and plugging the male/female into eachother. All
colors lined up. I verified continuity with all pins.

I tried changing between U6 - 25 and U8-4 for the side tone source in
the menu back and forth several times with no change in the output
voltage of that U6 Pin 26. If that pin is supposed to be 5v and it's
not, that seems to be raising a red flag, correct?

Where should I go from here?

Thanks & 73,

James Kern KB2FCV

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: W3FPR: RE: [Elecraft] KIO2 sends out to pc but doesn't take
commands from pc

Anything less than 10 ohms means the RFC is OK.


Here are more KIO2 troubleshooting tips:


BEGIN:


Here are some things about testing the KIO2: (also applies to the KPA100
RS232 interface)

U1 pin 12 (K2 /TX) and U1 pin 11 (/K2 RX) come from the K2's U6 MCU,
pins 25
(TXD) and 26 (RXD) respectively. All of these pins are held near 5VDC
until
they become active with data, at which time the level goes toward
ground for
short duration pulses of data.

U1 pin 5 should be at -6 to -12VDC with no cable connected between the
KIO2
and computer. If not, check for shorts on the pin or an unsoldered
connection. Use an ohmmeter to test for shorts with the power turned
off.
Make sure you are counting the pins correctly. Make sure your serial
cable
is built exactly like it is shown in the manual, and you did not
miscount
the pins on the DB9 connectors. Male and Female DB9 connectors are
mirror
images of each other.

Since the MCU in the K2 must be set up to use pin 25 as a data port, be
sure
the sidetone and the SPOT button works in CW mode. Otherwise, U6 pin 25
may
be setup as the sidetone source and not as a data pin. It is changed
between
the two, by editing the ST L Menu entry and pressing the DISPLAY button
until U8-4 is seen rather than U6-25. You may have to switch off the
power
after you make this change if the sidetone still doesn't work, and
repeat
the process several times if it is unsuccessful.

Once you get the proper 5V level on the KIO2's U1 pins 11 and 12, you
can
use an oscilloscope or even the lower AC volts range on a voltmeter to
see
if data is present when you send a command from the PC or the K2. You
can
follow the data from the PC to the KIO2 to J1 pin 3, U1 pin 6, then U1
pin
11. Note that the small RF chokes on the KIO2 are fragile and can break
so
they are an open circuit. Use an ohmmeter to verify all of them have
less
than 10 ohms series resistance with the power turned off.

Look for wiring problems too, and small strands of wire on the boards
(or
the cable connectors) that might be causing shorts to nearby circuits.
Reheat or resolder the connections if necessary.

The idea here, is to verify there is data coming from the PC to the
MAX1406,
and then it is making it through U1 to the K2's MCU. Study the signal
labels
and pins names on J1 and U1 on the KIO2 or KPA100 schematic and you
should
be able to understand the data flow.

Example: TXD on J1 pin 2 means transmit data from the KIO2 to the PC.
RXD on
J1 pin 3 means receive data from the PC to the KIO2.  U1 buffers this
data
and then sends or receives it to/from the K2 MCU on the U1 pins labeled
/K2
TX and /K2 RX. The "/" indicates these are active low pins, normally
held
near 5VDC until data is present.

--
73, Gary AB7MY
=========
[hidden email]
Elecraft Technical Support 
 



-----Original Message-----
From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 4:23 PM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KIO2 sends out to pc but doesn't take commands
from
pc


James,

Have you checked the resistance across the tiny inductors on the KIO2
board?
Those inductors are easily damaged when installing, and an open inductor
would cause exactly the symptoms you report. RXD and TXD are separate
signals, so it is quite possible that TXD is working, but RXD is not -
resulting on 'one-way' communications.

73,
Don W3FPR


> -----Original Message-----
>
> I have been working with the KIO2 for a while to try to get it to
> work. It's never really worked since I put it in.
>
> Today I verified with another PC that the K2 does indeed send data
> through the KIO2 but it does not receive. I ran the test as described
> on page 14 of the KIO2 manual. Steps 1,2,3,4 works fine I get the
> FA0xxxxxxxx; to come up in hyperterminal when I hit the DISPLAY
button

> as instructed. When I try step 5, which is to type SW01; then nothing
> happens. The software I tried cannot connect to the K2 either.
>
> The settings on my serial port (COM1) in Device manager (windows 2003
> production) are as follows:
> Bits Per Second: 4800
> Data Bits: 8
> Parity: None
> Stop Bits: 2
> Flow Control: None
>
> I am still baffled by what would cause one way communication, but not
> two way communication between the K2 and the PC.
>
> 73,
>
> James KB2FCV
>

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.



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[Don Wilhelm-3]

James,

The voltage at KIO2 pin 11 (/RXD) will be determined by your computer's input to U1 pin 6.  First check the voltage at U1 pin 6 and also J1 pin 3 with the computer cable connected and the computer powered on.

Under normal conditions (computer RS232 output at idle), the voltage at U1 pin 6 (and J1 pin 3) should be somewhere between -3 volts and -25 volts (RS232 Mark voltage).  If that condition is true, then the voltage at KIO2 U1 pin 11 should be 5 volts.

Alternately, if the voltage at U1 pin 6 is between +3 volts and +25 volts (RS232 space voltage), then U1 pin 11 will be at 0 volts.

So---, if you have the correct voltages at KIO2 in 3 and U1 pin 6, but not at U1 pin 11, then the U1 chip is not functioning properly - but if you do not have the correct voltages at U1 pin 6, then blame your computer or the cable or the L3 inductor (or a soldering short on the KIO2).

If the voltage at U1 pin 6 is somewhere between +3 volts and -3 volts, and the voltage at J1 pin 3 is the same, then your problem lies with your computer serial port - this voltage region is 'indeterminate' and can result in U1 pin 11 being either at 0 volts or +5 volts (it is anyone's guess which one it will be).

Once you obtain a proper input to U1 pin 6 from the computer, you can then trace the signal to the K2 control board U6 pin 26, but until you obtain +5 volts on KIO2 U1 pin 11, the zero volt reading at all points may be exactly right.

As a side-note, the schematic markings are not consistent between the base K2 and the KIO2 (and KPA100) - the KIO2 schematic properly indicates the inversion in the receiver by naming the signal '/RXD', while the K2 schematic names this same signal by its non-inverted designation 'RXD' - it is a bit confusing if one is attempting to follow the logic levels - the signaling state for the RS232 level is the 'space' condition which will result in a logic low (zero volts) on the '/RXD' (or 'RXD') signal lines.

73,
Don W3FPR  

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Gary,
>
> I took some measurements:
>
> You mentioned when the K2 is not sending or receiving data that U1 pin
> 11 and pin 12 should both be 5 volts. Pin 12 is 5 volts, but Pin 11 is
> 0 volts. I also verified that U6 Pin 25 is 5 volts and U6 Pin 26 is 0
> volts. What could cause U6 Pin 26 to be 0 volts?
>
> U1 Pin 5 is -10 volts, which is within the range you specified.
>
> I verified the serial cable is built exactly to the manual's
> instructions. I verified that nothing is crossed by popping off the
> covers on each end and plugging the male/female into eachother. All
> colors lined up. I verified continuity with all pins.
>
> I tried changing between U6 - 25 and U8-4 for the side tone source in
> the menu back and forth several times with no change in the output
> voltage of that U6 Pin 26. If that pin is supposed to be 5v and it's
> not, that seems to be raising a red flag, correct?
>
> Where should I go from here?
>
> Thanks & 73,
>
> James Kern KB2FCV
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 8:15 PM
> Subject: W3FPR: RE: [Elecraft] KIO2 sends out to pc but doesn't take
> commands from pc
>
> Anything less than 10 ohms means the RFC is OK.
>
>
> Here are more KIO2 troubleshooting tips:
>
>
> BEGIN:
>
>
> Here are some things about testing the KIO2: (also applies to the KPA100
> RS232 interface)
>
> U1 pin 12 (K2 /TX) and U1 pin 11 (/K2 RX) come from the K2's U6 MCU,
> pins 25
> (TXD) and 26 (RXD) respectively. All of these pins are held near 5VDC
> until
> they become active with data, at which time the level goes toward
> ground for
> short duration pulses of data.
>
> U1 pin 5 should be at -6 to -12VDC with no cable connected between the
> KIO2
> and computer. If not, check for shorts on the pin or an unsoldered
> connection. Use an ohmmeter to test for shorts with the power turned
> off.
> Make sure you are counting the pins correctly. Make sure your serial
> cable
> is built exactly like it is shown in the manual, and you did not
> miscount
> the pins on the DB9 connectors. Male and Female DB9 connectors are
> mirror
> images of each other.
>
> Since the MCU in the K2 must be set up to use pin 25 as a data port, be
> sure
> the sidetone and the SPOT button works in CW mode. Otherwise, U6 pin 25
> may
> be setup as the sidetone source and not as a data pin. It is changed
> between
> the two, by editing the ST L Menu entry and pressing the DISPLAY button
> until U8-4 is seen rather than U6-25. You may have to switch off the
> power
> after you make this change if the sidetone still doesn't work, and
> repeat
> the process several times if it is unsuccessful.
>
> Once you get the proper 5V level on the KIO2's U1 pins 11 and 12, you
> can
> use an oscilloscope or even the lower AC volts range on a voltmeter to
> see
> if data is present when you send a command from the PC or the K2. You
> can
> follow the data from the PC to the KIO2 to J1 pin 3, U1 pin 6, then U1
> pin
> 11. Note that the small RF chokes on the KIO2 are fragile and can break
> so
> they are an open circuit. Use an ohmmeter to verify all of them have
> less
> than 10 ohms series resistance with the power turned off.
>
> Look for wiring problems too, and small strands of wire on the boards
> (or
> the cable connectors) that might be causing shorts to nearby circuits.
> Reheat or resolder the connections if necessary.
>
> The idea here, is to verify there is data coming from the PC to the
> MAX1406,
> and then it is making it through U1 to the K2's MCU. Study the signal
> labels
> and pins names on J1 and U1 on the KIO2 or KPA100 schematic and you
> should
> be able to understand the data flow.
>
> Example: TXD on J1 pin 2 means transmit data from the KIO2 to the PC.
> RXD on
> J1 pin 3 means receive data from the PC to the KIO2.  U1 buffers this
> data
> and then sends or receives it to/from the K2 MCU on the U1 pins labeled
> /K2
> TX and /K2 RX. The "/" indicates these are active low pins, normally
> held
> near 5VDC until data is present.
>
> --
> 73, Gary AB7MY
> =========
> [hidden email]
> Elecraft Technical Support
>  
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 4:23 PM
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KIO2 sends out to pc but doesn't take commands
> from
> pc
>
>
> James,
>
> Have you checked the resistance across the tiny inductors on the KIO2
> board?
> Those inductors are easily damaged when installing, and an open inductor
> would cause exactly the symptoms you report. RXD and TXD are separate
> signals, so it is quite possible that TXD is working, but RXD is not -
> resulting on 'one-way' communications.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > I have been working with the KIO2 for a while to try to get it to
> > work. It's never really worked since I put it in.
> >
> > Today I verified with another PC that the K2 does indeed send data
> > through the KIO2 but it does not receive. I ran the test as described
> > on page 14 of the KIO2 manual. Steps 1,2,3,4 works fine I get the
> > FA0xxxxxxxx; to come up in hyperterminal when I hit the DISPLAY
> button
> > as instructed. When I try step 5, which is to type SW01; then nothing
> > happens. The software I tried cannot connect to the K2 either.
> >
> > The settings on my serial port (COM1) in Device manager (windows 2003
> > production) are as follows:
> > Bits Per Second: 4800
> > Data Bits: 8
> > Parity: None
> > Stop Bits: 2
> > Flow Control: None
> >
> > I am still baffled by what would cause one way communication, but not
> > two way communication between the K2 and the PC.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > James KB2FCV
> >
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
> across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date:
> 10/27/2006
>
>

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