Re: Wha'ts Wrong With Our Radios (WAS:NewProducts, Building Demo, ...

[Phil Kane-2]

On Mon, 29 May 2006 14:03:12 -0700, Alexandra Carter wrote:

>Since a lot of ham gear was actually ex-military gear following WWII,

  Memories of my T-23/ARC-5 first Novice transmitter......

>and since the US's warlike nature has supplied hams
>with a constant supply of military surplus stuff since, (this has
>only recently dried up, due to the classified/controlled nature of
>the modern mil gear)

  Not quite...how much post-Korean War (1950) "militaty surplus"
  have you seen around?  The reason is not "classified/controlled
  nature of the modern mil gear" -- Rockwell or Zeta or any of
  the suppliers will be very happy to sell you the same stuff if
  you put their obscene price on the table - cash, check, or
  money order.  Heck, Motorola has been selling the STU-3
  secure phone to private businesses for almost 20 years!!

  The real reason is that the DoD has a side business of
  supplying out-of-service military hardware - including
  communications gear - to our less well endowed allies.
  Sometimes such gear is better than the hand-me-downs that our
  own National Guard gets from them!

  I for one am happy with the K2 and the small form-factor "rice
  boxes" and peripherals that make up my comm station.  I gave
  away my last full-height relay rack 40+ years ago.

--
   73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

   From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
   Beaverton (Washington County)  Oregon



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[N2EY]

In a message dated 5/29/06 5:05:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

> I think the influence may have been military. Pre-WWII radios are the  
> long shallow model, some early 1930s mil rigs were, but as WWII got  
> more serious, the rigs seemed to settle on the small panel-deep  
> chassis form factor.  It makes sense when you're cramming a lot of  
>
> gear into an airplane, making a radio to fit in a backpack or Jeep,  
> in a tank, etc. Since a lot of ham gear was actually ex-military gear  
> following WWII, and since the US's warlike nature has supplied hams  
> with a constant supply of military surplus stuff since, (this has  
> only recently dried up, due to the classified/controlled nature of  
> the modern mil gear) we seem to have radios these days that are about  
> the same shape as military ones.
>

I disagree!

For one thing, the small-panel deep-chassis form factor was common in
military radios long before WW2 *if* the radio was remote controlled or was not meant
to be routinely operated manually. Look at the ARC-5 series and similar sets.

But WW2 radios that were meant to sit in front of an operator had wide, high
front panels and were relatively shallow. BC-348, BC-342, BC-191/375, ART-13,
SCR-306 and many others. Even sets like the APX-6 transponder were wide and
high but relatively shallow. Except for the ARC-5 series, most of the military
sets that wound up in amateur hands had that form factor.

> Frankly, if you're putting a radio in your car or RV or boat, taking  
> one along in a backpack, etc. the military type of shape makes sense.  

To a certain extent. The KX-1 form makes the most sense for backpacking and
similar use.

> I notice these days there are radios with the old prewar form factor,  
> such as the FT-1000 series and the new $5000-$100000 rigs the makers  
> have just come out with. Those are not meant to go into anyone's car  
> or boat... or tank. And they are relatively wide and shallow.

Perhaps the KWM-2 influence is finally wearing off. They're catching up to
what Southgate Radio was doing 32 years ago.....;-}

The  
>
> megabuck rigs even allow for a computer screen to be added, making  
> the total thing even wider and shallower overall.

But how shallow are they?

73 de Jim, N2EY

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[Phil Kane-2]

On Mon, 29 May 2006 14:16:56 -0700, Robert Tellefsen wrote:

>My take is that we are amateur radio OPERATORS, that is, we
>operate radios, not necessarily computers.  Personally I
>enjoy hands-on control of my K2, although I admit to using
>TR LOG for some functions while contesting.  The line between
>hands-on control and computer control is starting to gray here.
>Keep the ideas coming.  I'm enjoying reading them.

  I felt the same as above until I started using programs to control
  both my Uniden WS780XL Trunking Scanner and my Ten-Tec RS320D
  "black box" HF all-band computer-controlled receiver.  I no
  longer have to squint at the dial and knob legends and use a
  magifing glass to read them.  If the control program is a good
  one - as the ones for the above are - they wioll have a "front
  panel" graphic that fills the whole screen -- 19" (rack panel
  size) in my case.  I can control from the keyboard or the
  trackball.

  I wish that I could find a similar full-screen-layout-graphic
  control program for the K2.

  Suggestion?

--
   73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
   Elecraft K2/100   5402



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[Bill Coleman-2]

On May 29, 2006, at 3:31 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> In a message dated 5/29/06 8:33:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
> [hidden email] writes:
>
>> Seems like the standard radios in my
>> youth all had 1/2" diameter knobs, and they were spaced at least 1
>> 3/4" inches apart or more. So, the ones on the K2 are probably too
>> small, and too close together.
>
> I'd go even bigger, because I have big hands. Tuning knob should be  
> in excess of 2". other knobs in excess of 1". Say 2-1/2" for the  
> tuning and 1" for everything else. Yes, that's big!

2 1/2" tuning knobs are moderately small. 3" is more like it.

But 1" knobs are pretty big, actually. Perhaps 3/4" ?

>> What other knobs would you have on a K2-like radio?
>
> Some form of dedicated bandswitch

I disagree here. I don't rotary bandswitches are beneficial. (They  
certainly are traditional) Pushbuttons work great, and if you don't  
like the single band-up/band-down, we could always expand this to  
have a dedicated button for each band.

> Some form of dedicated filter selector

Same issue here -- I actually prefer the buttons to the rotary  
switch. It would be REALLY nice to have a series of buttons for this  
though -- that way we could directly access the filter setting we want.

> Some form of dedicated AGC selector

Again, I'm not sold on the rotary switch. You just need more buttons.
>

Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL        Mail: [hidden email]
Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
             -- Wilbur Wright, 1901

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[N2EY]

In a message dated 5/29/06 10:02:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:


>
>   The real reason is that the DoD has a side business of
>   supplying out-of-service military hardware - including
>   communications gear - to our less well endowed allies.
>

I agree with Phil's take on military surplus, and would add one more factor:
the way WW2 ended.

THe Manhattan Project was so secret that even VP Harry Truman did not know of
its existence until FDR died. Even then, there was no guarantee of success.

Allied military planning had long assumed that complete invasion and collapse
of the Axis countries would be needed for victory. So enormous quantities of
war materiel were produced. That turned out to be true in Europe, but with the
sudden end of the war in September 1945, and the rapid demobilization that
followed, there was a tremendous amount of equipment in the supply pipeline that
suddenly became surplus. Due to its relatively high value and relatively
small size, radio and electronic surplus was very popular. The pile was so big it
took decades to use up.

IMHO.

A bit OT, but appropriate for (traditional) Memorial Day, I think.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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[Bill Coleman-2]

On May 30, 2006, at 5:49 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Due to its relatively high value and relatively
> small size, radio and electronic surplus was very popular. The pile  
> was so big it
> took decades to use up.

And it was exactly this surplus that caused the Heath company to  
start producing electronic kits. (they had originally been a  
manufacturer of kit aircraft) They happened to buy a bunch of surplus  
electronic components, and they had to figure a way to get rid of  
them. The result was the O-1 scope, which sold in large quantities.

Of course, Heathkits have left an indelible legacy on amateur radio  
even though they stopped producing kits in 1986. Elecraft has picked  
up and continued that legacy of quality electronic kits.

(there, I brought it around to relevance for you)

Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL        Mail: [hidden email]
Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
             -- Wilbur Wright, 1901

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