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Re: Windows Needed

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Re: Windows Needed

Good Morning Clay,

Thank you for the offer to chat. I’m overwhelmed with the info available and compliments posted here and other places on the Elecraft equipment. Near as I can remember the last time I worked 75 meter phone was as a net control on the 3961 net in the early 70’s. I am absolutely out of touch with the whole realm of HF ham radio.

So fast forward to today while in retirement I would like to work some 40 meter CW and reading various postings on the .www the products from Elecraft kept coming up - especially all the raves on their receivers. I do remember the saying, “if you can’t hear them, you can’t work them”. So here I am wanting to buy a KXN so I can go out and sit under a tree and do a little ham radio.

I’ve read enough to want to get a KX3 so downloaded its user manual. Moving through it I ran across a sentence saying there was a need for a cable to hook to a PC…oops, that sounded like the Elecraft system was only compatible with Bill Gate's stuff and not Steve Job’s - darn.

My question now is should I get software to provide a fake Windows platform for Elecraft or get a real PC and use it as a dedicated option with a KX3? If the later what would be the best choice to purchase?

Would really appreciate hearing from you or anyone with a creditable opinion/knowledge on this subject.

73, Tommy

>
> Well, you came to the right place.? The folks here in THIS group are the
> ones who got me headed in the right direction.
>
> Then of course, David Shoaf and his crew at Elecraft spent the requisite
> time to get me the best bang for my buck for initial config, AND helped
> me make a logical plan for maxing out the upgrades as additional funding
> became available.
>
> Got my K3s/P3 combo maxed out with THE very LAST NIB 2nd Receiver on the
> shelf....? Talk about sneaking in under the wire.
>
> You will likely want to do something similar in the K4? K-Line....
>
> Feel free to contact me directly and we can chat to your heart's content
> about Elecraft....? I am all about "paying it forward".
> Of course, there are much smarter and more experienced folks out in
> Elecraft land than me....? especially as regards the soon to be
> available K4...
>
> 73, and welcome to the support group for the best amateur radio ON THE
> PLANET!
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> (318) 518-1389
>

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Grant Youngman-2

Re: Windows Needed

Elecraft software is all available in macOS compatible versions. The Elecraft cable works just as well with a Mac.

Unfortunately, much other ham radio software is not. It tends to be Windows only, although there ARE good general purpose logging programs, digital software, and software for most other functions available for macOS. I guess the Windows focus is that a lot of the code is built by guys in their basements that only have Windows machines, and they just don’t spend the time/money to use cross-platform libraries in the process. And it’s the dreaded Path of Least Resistance.

I went the route of Parallels/Windows on my Macs rather than buy another chunk of hardware to deal with. The lack of some main-line ham software in macOS versions is generally irritating, I avoid it whenever possible, but it isn’t always. It is what it is.

When I’m out portable with my KX3, there’s no computer involved, and I log with paper and pencil. One less thing to carry around and worry about batteries for :-)

Grant NQ5T

> On May 1, 2020, at 8:38 AM, Tommy Judson via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> So fast forward to today while in retirement I would like to work some 40 meter CW and reading various postings on the .www the products from Elecraft kept coming up - especially all the raves on their receivers. I do remember the saying, “if you can’t hear them, you can’t work them”. So here I am wanting to buy a KXN so I can go out and sit under a tree and do a little ham radio.
>
> I’ve read enough to want to get a KX3 so downloaded its user manual. Moving through it I ran across a sentence saying there was a need for a cable to hook to a PC…oops, that sounded like the Elecraft system was only compatible with Bill Gate's stuff and not Steve Job’s - darn.
>
> My question now is should I get software to provide a fake Windows platform for Elecraft or get a real PC and use it as a dedicated option with a KX3? If the later what would be the best choice to purchase?
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Windows Needed

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

On 5/1/2020 5:38 AM, Tommy Judson via Elecraft wrote:
> I’ve read enough to want to get a KX3 so downloaded its user manual. Moving through it I ran across a sentence saying there was a need for a cable to hook to a PC…oops, that sounded like the Elecraft system was only compatible with Bill Gate's stuff and not Steve Job’s - darn.

Computer connections are required only for K1JT's wonderful digital
modes that allow "rip and run" QSOs through strong noise,and/or with low
power and/or compromised antennas. For CW, all you need is an antenna
and a key/paddle. For SSB, all you need is a mic. The speaker doesn't
get very loud (to conserve battery life), but plenty good enough for
quiet places if you're not hearing impaired. Very limited RTTY and PSK31
operation can be done with a paddle.

73, Jim K9YC
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rcbenedict1545

Re: Windows Needed

PC = Personal Computer, either MAC or Windows operating system
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 1, 2020, at 12:20, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 5/1/2020 5:38 AM, Tommy Judson via Elecraft wrote:
>> I’ve read enough to want to get a KX3 so downloaded its user manual. Moving through it I ran across a sentence saying there was a need for a cable to hook to a PC…oops, that sounded like the Elecraft system was only compatible with Bill Gate's stuff and not Steve Job’s - darn.
>
> Computer connections are required only for K1JT's wonderful digital modes that allow "rip and run" QSOs through strong noise,and/or with low power and/or compromised antennas. For CW, all you need is an antenna and a key/paddle. For SSB, all you need is a mic. The speaker doesn't get very loud (to conserve battery life), but plenty good enough for quiet places if you're not hearing impaired. Very limited RTTY and PSK31 operation can be done with a paddle.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Barry LaZar

Re: Windows Needed

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Tommy,
You question seems straight forward, but it is a little complicated.
If all you need is just a logging program, almost anything will do.
However, if you want to go beyond that, the majority of good software is
Windows based, like CW Skimmer. Windows emulations today are pretty
good, but occasionally do cause problems. I guess I would stay with a PC
for overall simplicity.

I have a KX3 which I operate with Win4K3, CW Skimmer, HRD, FLDIGI,
N1MM+, and a few other packages. At some point you may decide to try out
some some other modes or configurations. Therefore, another reason to go
PC..

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Tommy Judson via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: 5/1/2020 8:38:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Windows Needed

>Good Morning Clay,
>
>Thank you for the offer to chat. I’m overwhelmed with the info available and compliments posted here and other places on the Elecraft equipment. Near as I can remember the last time I worked 75 meter phone was as a net control on the 3961 net in the early 70’s. I am absolutely out of touch with the whole realm of HF ham radio.
>
>So fast forward to today while in retirement I would like to work some 40 meter CW and reading various postings on the .www the products from Elecraft kept coming up - especially all the raves on their receivers. I do remember the saying, “if you can’t hear them, you can’t work them”. So here I am wanting to buy a KXN so I can go out and sit under a tree and do a little ham radio.
>
>I’ve read enough to want to get a KX3 so downloaded its user manual. Moving through it I ran across a sentence saying there was a need for a cable to hook to a PC…oops, that sounded like the Elecraft system was only compatible with Bill Gate's stuff and not Steve Job’s - darn.
>
>My question now is should I get software to provide a fake Windows platform for Elecraft or get a real PC and use it as a dedicated option with a KX3? If the later what would be the best choice to purchase?
>
>Would really appreciate hearing from you or anyone with a creditable opinion/knowledge on this subject.
>
>73, Tommy
>
>
>>
>> Well, you came to the right place.? The folks here in THIS group are the
>> ones who got me headed in the right direction.
>>
>> Then of course, David Shoaf and his crew at Elecraft spent the requisite
>> time to get me the best bang for my buck for initial config, AND helped
>> me make a logical plan for maxing out the upgrades as additional funding
>> became available.
>>
>> Got my K3s/P3 combo maxed out with THE very LAST NIB 2nd Receiver on the
>> shelf....? Talk about sneaking in under the wire.
>>
>> You will likely want to do something similar in the K4? K-Line....
>>
>> Feel free to contact me directly and we can chat to your heart's content
>> about Elecraft....? I am all about "paying it forward".
>> Of course, there are much smarter and more experienced folks out in
>> Elecraft land than me....? especially as regards the soon to be
>> available K4...
>>
>> 73, and welcome to the support group for the best amateur radio ON THE
>> PLANET!
>>
>> ______________________
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>> (318) 518-1389
>>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Don Wilhelm

Re: Windows Needed

With refurbished desktop computers available in the $200 to $300 price
range, many loaded with Windows 10 Pro, it is not a big deal to have a
dedicated Windows PC as the shack computer. Oh yes, you need a monitor
too, but those also are not expensive.

That allows you to run a Mac or Linux machine for your other computing
tasks.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/1/2020 3:16 PM, Barry wrote:

> Tommy,
> You question seems straight forward, but it is a little
> complicated. If all you need is just a logging program, almost anything
> will do. However, if you want to go beyond that, the majority of good
> software is Windows based, like CW Skimmer. Windows emulations today are
> pretty good, but occasionally do cause problems. I guess I would stay
> with a PC for overall simplicity.
>
> I have a KX3 which I operate with Win4K3, CW Skimmer, HRD, FLDIGI,
> N1MM+, and a few other packages. At some point you may decide to try out
> some some other modes or configurations. Therefore, another reason to go
> PC..
>

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-3

Re: Windows Needed

He did say that he wants to sit under a (presumably random) tree and
operate CW.

If he wants a computer to load firmware and keep his KX2 (or KX3) up to
date, then his Mac should do nicely.

Otherwise, an inexpensive laptop for the field should do nicely.
Preferably with good battery life.

Tommy may be smart enough to pick a mode where all he needs is the
radio. I want to go sit under a tree and run PSK-31 with a proper
screen and keyboard.

73 -- Lynn

On 5/1/20 12:34 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> With refurbished desktop computers available in the $200 to $300 price
> range, many loaded with Windows 10 Pro, it is not a big deal to have a
> dedicated Windows PC as the shack computer. Oh yes, you need a monitor
> too, but those also are not expensive.
>
> That allows you to run a Mac or Linux machine for your other computing
> tasks.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 5/1/2020 3:16 PM, Barry wrote:
>> Tommy,
>> You question seems straight forward, but it is a little
>> complicated. If all you need is just a logging program, almost
>> anything will do. However, if you want to go beyond that, the majority
>> of good software is Windows based, like CW Skimmer. Windows emulations
>> today are pretty good, but occasionally do cause problems. I guess I
>> would stay with a PC for overall simplicity.
>>
>> I have a KX3 which I operate with Win4K3, CW Skimmer, HRD,
>> FLDIGI, N1MM+, and a few other packages. At some point you may decide
>> to try out some some other modes or configurations. Therefore, another
>> reason to go PC..
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: Windows Needed

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

On 5/1/2020 12:34 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> With refurbished desktop computers available in the $200 to $300 price
> range, many loaded with Windows 10 Pro, it is not a big deal to have a
> dedicated Windows PC as the shack computer. Oh yes, you need a monitor
> too, but those also are not expensive.

Yes, and there are refurb (off lease) Thinkpads in this price range, all
loaded with some version of Win10. The built-in battery greatly reduces
the need for an outboard UPS, they're easy to take into the field, and
all accommodate an outboard monitor. I take my shack computer into the
field three times a year for 7QP, CQP, and FD.

This isn't a matter of which OS is better, it's simply that much more
ham software is written for Windoze. And as NQ5T has noted, most of it
can be run on a Mac in a Windows simulation.

And SOME ham software is multi-platform. All of Elecraft's own control
programs are written for Windoze and Mac, and K1JT's WSJT-X is compiled
for Windoze, Mac, and multiple versions of Linux.

73, Jim K9YC
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Windows Needed

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-3

Before this email query gets hijacked too far afield…

Macintoshes do a very good job of handling the needs of hams, especially with Elecraft devices. I do _all_ of my computing with Macintoshes, including a lot of product development.

So, for Tommy:
MacLoggerDX from Dog Park Software is an excellent logging system that will satisfy most of your needs.
https://dogparksoftware.com/MacLoggerDX.html <https://dogparksoftware.com/MacLoggerDX.html>

For contesting, I use SkookumLogger, a free program from K1GQ. Bill has done an excellent job with this package, but you probably don’t want to sit in the backyard and contest.
https://www.k1gq.com/SkookumLogger/ <https://www.k1gq.com/SkookumLogger/>

RumLog, from dl2rum is another contesting package for the Mac. It has some very interesting features as well.
https://dl2rum.de/rumsoft/RUMLog.html <https://dl2rum.de/rumsoft/RUMLog.html>

If you wish to play with FT4, FT8 or any of the other weak-signal modes, the WSJT-X suite works quite well on the Macintosh.
https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html

For controlling and updating your Elecraft equipment, Elecraft has a very nice suite of applications that can be used to update, configure and control Elecraft products.
You can download these from the Elecraft site in the support area.
https://elecraft.com/pages/firmware-software <https://elecraft.com/pages/firmware-software>

The list goes on and on. There are a few things I use Windows for (running in a VMware Fusion), but that list is very small. In short, unless you are doing something special, you can stay on your platform of choice with no issues at all.

There is a web page where you can get notified of updates in the Mac ham radio world: https://www.machamradio.com

Welcome to Elecraft, and we hope you enjoy your new radios and other Elecraft devices!

73!
Jack, W6FB

> On May 1, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> He did say that he wants to sit under a (presumably random) tree and operate CW.
>
> If he wants a computer to load firmware and keep his KX2 (or KX3) up to date, then his Mac should do nicely.
>
> Otherwise, an inexpensive laptop for the field should do nicely. Preferably with good battery life.
>
> Tommy may be smart enough to pick a mode where all he needs is the radio. I want to go sit under a tree and run PSK-31 with a proper screen and keyboard.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 5/1/20 12:34 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> With refurbished desktop computers available in the $200 to $300 price range, many loaded with Windows 10 Pro, it is not a big deal to have a dedicated Windows PC as the shack computer. Oh yes, you need a monitor too, but those also are not expensive.
>> That allows you to run a Mac or Linux machine for your other computing tasks.
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> On 5/1/2020 3:16 PM, Barry wrote:
>>> Tommy,
>>> You question seems straight forward, but it is a little complicated. If all you need is just a logging program, almost anything will do. However, if you want to go beyond that, the majority of good software is Windows based, like CW Skimmer. Windows emulations today are pretty good, but occasionally do cause problems. I guess I would stay with a PC for overall simplicity.
>>>
>>> I have a KX3 which I operate with Win4K3, CW Skimmer, HRD, FLDIGI, N1MM+, and a few other packages. At some point you may decide to try out some some other modes or configurations. Therefore, another reason to go PC..
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

rcbenedict1545

Re: Windows Needed

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

I have been running Windows on my Mac since Parallels was introduced with only one problem, ICOMS firmware update utility. Windows on a Mac is not an emulator
So, can you run two different versions of Windows and Mac OS on your PC and switch between them with a click of a mouse? I had to do that when ULS required an earlier version of Windows. I use to chuckle at my colleagues who needed separate computers and to deal with updates drivers viruses etc. I only need one Mac in my ham station. I guess I could give up my Mac and buy several PCs
Ray
W8LYJ

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 1, 2020, at 13:35, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> With refurbished desktop computers available in the $200 to $300 price range, many loaded with Windows 10 Pro, it is not a big deal to have a dedicated Windows PC as the shack computer. Oh yes, you need a monitor too, but those also are not expensive.
>
> That allows you to run a Mac or Linux machine for your other computing tasks.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>> On 5/1/2020 3:16 PM, Barry wrote:
>> Tommy,
>> You question seems straight forward, but it is a little complicated. If all you need is just a logging program, almost anything will do. However, if you want to go beyond that, the majority of good software is Windows based, like CW Skimmer. Windows emulations today are pretty good, but occasionally do cause problems. I guess I would stay with a PC for overall simplicity.
>> I have a KX3 which I operate with Win4K3, CW Skimmer, HRD, FLDIGI, N1MM+, and a few other packages. At some point you may decide to try out some some other modes or configurations. Therefore, another reason to go PC..
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

ng7m

Re: Windows Needed

Ray, I'm sure you know this, but you are simply running each OS as a
virtual machine using the Intel VT technology (not an Apple or Microsoft
thing at all). The reason you can't run the Mac OS on standard Intel PC
hard ware is due to Apple's super irritating proprietary ROM etc...
hardware signatures... trickery. Apple goes to extreme lengths to ensure
that their OS only will run on their hardware to lock you into buying their
hardware to use their OS. Folks will hack and get older versions of the Mac
OS working over time on non Apple PC hardware, but then a new Mac OS update
comes out and it then breaks running their OS on non Mac / Apple hardware
(constant cat and mouse game). I'm not saying they should or shouldn't do
that, but that's just what they do. So yeah, you can run a Windows OS on
your Mac hardware because #1, it's Intel based hardware and Apple finally
adopted a standard intel based platform etc...years ago when they finally
dumped the IBM Power PC cpu's and their terrible/horrible preemptive OS at
the time (amen! it saved Apple!). Jobs brought them back to the modern OS
era by going down the Free BSD OS path, virtually saving them from
bankruptcy. (not to mention Microsoft investing 100+ million in Apple back
then to keep them alive)

So yeah, on your Mac / Apple PC hardware, if you can't live without the Mac
OS and you are willing to pony up for the price of their hardware, you can
still run the later versions of the Mac OS and also run virtual versions of
Windows and or boot directly into Windows on your Mac hardware, because
Microsoft doesn't lock their OS down to a specific manufactures Intel based
PC hardware. So don't thank Apple for running Windows on your Mac / Apple
hardware, thank Microsoft for keeping their OS pretty much hardware
independent and not forcing you to run their OS on one company's hardware!

Those of us that use Windows as their primary OS, do the same thing as
you... you can virtualize and run multiple copies of Windows and other
operating systems at the same time like Linux etc... we have been doing
that for years of course and yes, we can run hacked versions of the Mac OS
too if we want to continually fight Apple in their efforts to lock their
Free BSD based OS release after release after release (serious irony that
they used Free BSD in the beginning and still lock it to their hardware).

At the end of the day, it's nice to have options and for there to be
multiple competitors to provide us as consumers with better options and
lower prices due to that competition. Let's all be glad that there are
multiple consumer OS's out there so the companies compete against each
other, not to mention the free versions of Linux too. Options are good!
It drives competition, innovation and competitive pricing for the masses.

Max NG7M

On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 5:11 PM Raymond <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have been running Windows on my Mac since Parallels was introduced with
> only one problem, ICOMS firmware update utility. Windows on a Mac is not an
> emulator
> So, can you run two different versions of Windows and Mac OS on your PC
> and switch between them with a click of a mouse? I had to do that when ULS
> required an earlier version of Windows. I use to chuckle at my colleagues
> who needed separate computers and to deal with updates drivers viruses etc.
> I only need one Mac in my ham station. I guess I could give up my Mac and
> buy several PCs
> Ray
> W8LYJ
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 1, 2020, at 13:35, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > With refurbished desktop computers available in the $200 to $300 price
> range, many loaded with Windows 10 Pro, it is not a big deal to have a
> dedicated Windows PC as the shack computer. Oh yes, you need a monitor
> too, but those also are not expensive.
> >
> > That allows you to run a Mac or Linux machine for your other computing
> tasks.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> >
> >> On 5/1/2020 3:16 PM, Barry wrote:
> >> Tommy,
> >> You question seems straight forward, but it is a little
> complicated. If all you need is just a logging program, almost anything
> will do. However, if you want to go beyond that, the majority of good
> software is Windows based, like CW Skimmer. Windows emulations today are
> pretty good, but occasionally do cause problems. I guess I would stay with
> a PC for overall simplicity.
> >> I have a KX3 which I operate with Win4K3, CW Skimmer, HRD, FLDIGI,
> N1MM+, and a few other packages. At some point you may decide to try out
> some some other modes or configurations. Therefore, another reason to go
> PC..
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
M. George
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W2xj

Re: Windows Needed

In reply to this post by rcbenedict1545

agreed I haven’t touched a Win PC in over 10 years but I have Win XP, Win 7, Win 10 and Linux running as virtual machines on my Macbook Pro. There is virtually nothing I can’t run. I keep as much as possible native OSX, though.

Sent from my iPad

> On May 1, 2020, at 7:11 PM, Raymond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have been running Windows on my Mac since Parallels was introduced with only one problem, ICOMS firmware update utility. Windows on a Mac is not an emulator
> So, can you run two different versions of Windows and Mac OS on your PC and switch between them with a click of a mouse? I had to do that when ULS required an earlier version of Windows. I use to chuckle at my colleagues who needed separate computers and to deal with updates drivers viruses etc. I only need one Mac in my ham station. I guess I could give up my Mac and buy several PCs
> Ray
> W8LYJ
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 1, 2020, at 13:35, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> With refurbished desktop computers available in the $200 to $300 price range, many loaded with Windows 10 Pro, it is not a big deal to have a dedicated Windows PC as the shack computer. Oh yes, you need a monitor too, but those also are not expensive.
>>
>> That allows you to run a Mac or Linux machine for your other computing tasks.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>
>>>> On 5/1/2020 3:16 PM, Barry wrote:
>>> Tommy,
>>> You question seems straight forward, but it is a little complicated. If all you need is just a logging program, almost anything will do. However, if you want to go beyond that, the majority of good software is Windows based, like CW Skimmer. Windows emulations today are pretty good, but occasionally do cause problems. I guess I would stay with a PC for overall simplicity.
>>> I have a KX3 which I operate with Win4K3, CW Skimmer, HRD, FLDIGI, N1MM+, and a few other packages. At some point you may decide to try out some some other modes or configurations. Therefore, another reason to go PC..
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

rcbenedict1545

Re: Windows Needed

In reply to this post by ng7m

Yup, know all that
Ray

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 1, 2020, at 17:51, M. George <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ray, I'm sure you know this, but you are simply running each OS as a
> virtual machine using the Intel VT technology (not an Apple or Microsoft
> thing at all). The reason you can't run the Mac OS on standard Intel PC
> hard ware is due to Apple's super irritating proprietary ROM etc...
> hardware signatures... trickery. Apple goes to extreme lengths to ensure
> that their OS only will run on their hardware to lock you into buying their
> hardware to use their OS. Folks will hack and get older versions of the Mac
> OS working over time on non Apple PC hardware, but then a new Mac OS update
> comes out and it then breaks running their OS on non Mac / Apple hardware
> (constant cat and mouse game). I'm not saying they should or shouldn't do
> that, but that's just what they do. So yeah, you can run a Windows OS on
> your Mac hardware because #1, it's Intel based hardware and Apple finally
> adopted a standard intel based platform etc...years ago when they finally
> dumped the IBM Power PC cpu's and their terrible/horrible preemptive OS at
> the time (amen! it saved Apple!). Jobs brought them back to the modern OS
> era by going down the Free BSD OS path, virtually saving them from
> bankruptcy. (not to mention Microsoft investing 100+ million in Apple back
> then to keep them alive)
>
> So yeah, on your Mac / Apple PC hardware, if you can't live without the Mac
> OS and you are willing to pony up for the price of their hardware, you can
> still run the later versions of the Mac OS and also run virtual versions of
> Windows and or boot directly into Windows on your Mac hardware, because
> Microsoft doesn't lock their OS down to a specific manufactures Intel based
> PC hardware. So don't thank Apple for running Windows on your Mac / Apple
> hardware, thank Microsoft for keeping their OS pretty much hardware
> independent and not forcing you to run their OS on one company's hardware!
>
> Those of us that use Windows as their primary OS, do the same thing as
> you... you can virtualize and run multiple copies of Windows and other
> operating systems at the same time like Linux etc... we have been doing
> that for years of course and yes, we can run hacked versions of the Mac OS
> too if we want to continually fight Apple in their efforts to lock their
> Free BSD based OS release after release after release (serious irony that
> they used Free BSD in the beginning and still lock it to their hardware).
>
> At the end of the day, it's nice to have options and for there to be
> multiple competitors to provide us as consumers with better options and
> lower prices due to that competition. Let's all be glad that there are
> multiple consumer OS's out there so the companies compete against each
> other, not to mention the free versions of Linux too. Options are good!
> It drives competition, innovation and competitive pricing for the masses.
>
> Max NG7M
>
>> On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 5:11 PM Raymond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have been running Windows on my Mac since Parallels was introduced with
>> only one problem, ICOMS firmware update utility. Windows on a Mac is not an
>> emulator
>> So, can you run two different versions of Windows and Mac OS on your PC
>> and switch between them with a click of a mouse? I had to do that when ULS
>> required an earlier version of Windows. I use to chuckle at my colleagues
>> who needed separate computers and to deal with updates drivers viruses etc.
>> I only need one Mac in my ham station. I guess I could give up my Mac and
>> buy several PCs
>> Ray
>> W8LYJ
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On May 1, 2020, at 13:35, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> With refurbished desktop computers available in the $200 to $300 price
>> range, many loaded with Windows 10 Pro, it is not a big deal to have a
>> dedicated Windows PC as the shack computer. Oh yes, you need a monitor
>> too, but those also are not expensive.
>>>
>>> That allows you to run a Mac or Linux machine for your other computing
>> tasks.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 5/1/2020 3:16 PM, Barry wrote:
>>>> Tommy,
>>>> You question seems straight forward, but it is a little
>> complicated. If all you need is just a logging program, almost anything
>> will do. However, if you want to go beyond that, the majority of good
>> software is Windows based, like CW Skimmer. Windows emulations today are
>> pretty good, but occasionally do cause problems. I guess I would stay with
>> a PC for overall simplicity.
>>>> I have a KX3 which I operate with Win4K3, CW Skimmer, HRD, FLDIGI,
>> N1MM+, and a few other packages. At some point you may decide to try out
>> some some other modes or configurations. Therefore, another reason to go
>> PC..
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> --
> M. George
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

W2xj

Re: Windows Needed

In reply to this post by ng7m

Apple controls the hardware AND the software for a good reason. It just works. I can’t remember the last time anything crashed on my Mac. I am willing to spend money for top quality and I usually avoid hacks.

Sent from my iPad

> On May 1, 2020, at 7:51 PM, M. George <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ray, I'm sure you know this, but you are simply running each OS as a
> virtual machine using the Intel VT technology (not an Apple or Microsoft
> thing at all). The reason you can't run the Mac OS on standard Intel PC
> hard ware is due to Apple's super irritating proprietary ROM etc...
> hardware signatures... trickery. Apple goes to extreme lengths to ensure
> that their OS only will run on their hardware to lock you into buying their
> hardware to use their OS. Folks will hack and get older versions of the Mac
> OS working over time on non Apple PC hardware, but then a new Mac OS update
> comes out and it then breaks running their OS on non Mac / Apple hardware
> (constant cat and mouse game). I'm not saying they should or shouldn't do
> that, but that's just what they do. So yeah, you can run a Windows OS on
> your Mac hardware because #1, it's Intel based hardware and Apple finally
> adopted a standard intel based platform etc...years ago when they finally
> dumped the IBM Power PC cpu's and their terrible/horrible preemptive OS at
> the time (amen! it saved Apple!). Jobs brought them back to the modern OS
> era by going down the Free BSD OS path, virtually saving them from
> bankruptcy. (not to mention Microsoft investing 100+ million in Apple back
> then to keep them alive)
>
> So yeah, on your Mac / Apple PC hardware, if you can't live without the Mac
> OS and you are willing to pony up for the price of their hardware, you can
> still run the later versions of the Mac OS and also run virtual versions of
> Windows and or boot directly into Windows on your Mac hardware, because
> Microsoft doesn't lock their OS down to a specific manufactures Intel based
> PC hardware. So don't thank Apple for running Windows on your Mac / Apple
> hardware, thank Microsoft for keeping their OS pretty much hardware
> independent and not forcing you to run their OS on one company's hardware!
>
> Those of us that use Windows as their primary OS, do the same thing as
> you... you can virtualize and run multiple copies of Windows and other
> operating systems at the same time like Linux etc... we have been doing
> that for years of course and yes, we can run hacked versions of the Mac OS
> too if we want to continually fight Apple in their efforts to lock their
> Free BSD based OS release after release after rele

W2xj

Re: Windows Needed

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

1st- get my name right. 2nd- use a font I can read and 3rd- get your facts straight and lighten up. Take a pill.

Sent from my iPad

> On May 1, 2020, at 8:30 PM, M. George <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I sent this direct to you... that is pure BS Ray, be glad I didn't embarrass you on the Elecraft list. Can you even begin to demonstrate what you are claiming? No... you make a bald ass assertion and nothing more. The hardware is the same at the CPU and peripheral level in almost all cases. iIt's no more secure than the man in the moon. And yeah, that is a bald ass assertion too! :)
>
> Max NG7M
>
>> On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 6:27 PM W2xj <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Apple controls the hardware AND the software for a good reason. It just works. I can’t remember the last time anything crashed on my Mac. I am willing to spend money for top quality and I usually avoid hacks.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On May 1, 2020, at 7:51 PM, M. George <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ray, I'm sure you know this, but you are simply running each OS as a
>> > virtual machine using the Intel VT technology (not an Apple or Microsoft
>> > thing at all). The reason you can't run the Mac OS on standard Intel PC
>> > hard ware is due to Apple's super irritating proprietary ROM etc...
>> > hardware signatures... trickery. Apple goes to extreme lengths to ensure
>> > that their OS only will run on their hardware to lock you into buying their
>> > hardware to use their OS. Folks will hack and get older versions of the Mac
>> > OS working over time on non Apple PC hardware, but then a new Mac OS update
>> > comes out and it then breaks running their OS on non Mac / Apple hardware
>> > (constant cat and mouse game). I'm not saying they should or shouldn't do
>> > that, but that's just what they do. So yeah, you can run a Windows OS on
>> > your Mac hardware because #1, it's Intel based hardware and Apple finally
>> > adopted a standard intel based platform etc...years ago when they finally
>> > dumped the IBM Power PC cpu's and their terrible/horrible preemptive OS at
>> > the time (amen! it saved Apple!). Jobs brought them back to the modern OS
>> > era by going down the Free BSD OS path, virtually saving them from
>> > bankruptcy. (not to mention Microsoft investing 100+ million in Apple back
>> > then to keep them alive)
>> >
>> > So yeah, on your Mac / Apple PC hardware, if you can't live without the Mac
>> > OS and you are willing to pony up for the price of their hardware, you can
>> > still run the later versions of the Mac OS and also run virtual versions of
>> > Windows and or boot directly into Windows on your Mac hardware, because
>> > Microsoft doesn't lock their OS down to a specific manufactures Intel based
>> > PC hardware. So don't thank Apple for running Windows on your Mac / Apple
>> > hardware, thank Microsoft for keeping their OS pretty much hardware
>> > independent and not forcing you to run their OS on one company's hardware!
>> >
>> > Those of us that use Windows as their primary OS, do the same thing as
>> > you... you can virtualize and run multiple copies of Windows and other
>> > operating systems at the same time like Linux etc... we have been doing
>> > that for years of course and yes, we can run hacked versions of the Mac OS
>> > too if we want to continually fight Apple in their efforts to lock their
>> > Free BSD based OS release after release after rele
>>
>
>
> --
> M. George

Vic Rosenthal

Re: Windows Needed

In reply to this post by ng7m

Apple breaks it's OWN hardware when it wants you to buy a new computer.
I have a Macbook Pro from 2009 which won't run the latest MacOS. The
Macbook is still in very good condition, so I installed Ubuntu Linux on
it. It's like a new computer.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
.
On 02/05/2020 2:45, M. George wrote:

> Ray, I'm sure you know this, but you are simply running each OS as a
> virtual machine using the Intel VT technology (not an Apple or Microsoft
> thing at all). The reason you can't run the Mac OS on standard Intel PC
> hard ware is due to Apple's super irritating proprietary ROM etc...
> hardware signatures... trickery. Apple goes to extreme lengths to ensure
> that their OS only will run on their hardware to lock you into buying their
> hardware to use their OS. Folks will hack and get older versions of the Mac
> OS working over time on non Apple PC hardware, but then a new Mac OS update
> comes out and it then breaks running their OS on non Mac / Apple hardware
> (constant cat and mouse game). I'm not saying they should or shouldn't do
> that, but that's just what they do. So yeah, you can run a Windows OS on
> your Mac hardware because #1, it's Intel based hardware and Apple finally
> adopted a standard intel based platform etc...years ago when they finally
> dumped the IBM Power PC cpu's and their terrible/horrible preemptive OS at
> the time (amen! it saved Apple!). Jobs brought them back to the modern OS
> era by going down the Free BSD OS path, virtually saving them from
> bankruptcy. (not to mention Microsoft investing 100+ million in Apple back
> then to keep them alive)
>
> So yeah, on your Mac / Apple PC hardware, if you can't live without the Mac
> OS and you are willing to pony up for the price of their hardware, you can
> still run the later versions of the Mac OS and also run virtual versions of
> Windows and or boot directly into Windows on your Mac hardware, because
> Microsoft doesn't lock their OS down to a specific manufactures Intel based
> PC hardware. So don't thank Apple for running Windows on your Mac / Apple
> hardware, thank Microsoft for keeping their OS pretty much hardware
> independent and not forcing you to run their OS on one company's hardware!
>
> Those of us that use Windows as their primary OS, do the same thing as
> you... you can virtualize and run multiple copies of Windows and other
> operating systems at the same time like Linux etc... we have been doing
> that for years of course and yes, we can run hacked versions of the Mac OS
> too if we want to continually fight Apple in their efforts to lock their
> Free BSD based OS release after release after release (serious irony that
> they used Free BSD in the beginning and still lock it to their hardware).
>
> At the end of the day, it's nice to have options and for there to be
> multiple competitors to provide us as consumers with better options and
> lower prices due to that competition. Let's all be glad that there are
> multiple consumer OS's out there so the companies compete against each
> other, not to mention the free versions of Linux too. Options are good!
> It drives competition, innovation and competitive pricing for the masses.
>
> Max NG7M

Dean L

Re: Windows Needed

Apple and Windows...

Wow guess we should bring up politics next , NOT!
It's about time fellas....

SIGNED
Dean K2WW

On Sat, May 2, 2020, 00:47 Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Apple breaks it's OWN hardware when it wants you to buy a new computer.
> I have a Macbook Pro from 2009 which won't run the latest MacOS. The
> Macbook is still in very good condition, so I installed Ubuntu Linux on
> it. It's like a new computer.
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> CWops no. 5
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> .
> On 02/05/2020 2:45, M. George wrote:
> > Ray, I'm sure you know this, but you are simply running each OS as a
> > virtual machine using the Intel VT technology (not an Apple or Microsoft
> > thing at all). The reason you can't run the Mac OS on standard Intel PC
> > hard ware is due to Apple's super irritating proprietary ROM etc...
> > hardware signatures... trickery. Apple goes to extreme lengths to ensure
> > that their OS only will run on their hardware to lock you into buying
> their
> > hardware to use their OS. Folks will hack and get older versions of the
> Mac
> > OS working over time on non Apple PC hardware, but then a new Mac OS
> update
> > comes out and it then breaks running their OS on non Mac / Apple hardware
> > (constant cat and mouse game). I'm not saying they should or shouldn't
> do
> > that, but that's just what they do. So yeah, you can run a Windows OS on
> > your Mac hardware because #1, it's Intel based hardware and Apple finally
> > adopted a standard intel based platform etc...years ago when they finally
> > dumped the IBM Power PC cpu's and their terrible/horrible preemptive OS
> at
> > the time (amen! it saved Apple!). Jobs brought them back to the modern
> OS
> > era by going down the Free BSD OS path, virtually saving them from
> > bankruptcy. (not to mention Microsoft investing 100+ million in Apple
> back
> > then to keep them alive)
> >
> > So yeah, on your Mac / Apple PC hardware, if you can't live without the
> Mac
> > OS and you are willing to pony up for the price of their hardware, you
> can
> > still run the later versions of the Mac OS and also run virtual versions
> of
> > Windows and or boot directly into Windows on your Mac hardware, because
> > Microsoft doesn't lock their OS down to a specific manufactures Intel
> based
> > PC hardware. So don't thank Apple for running Windows on your Mac /
> Apple
> > hardware, thank Microsoft for keeping their OS pretty much hardware
> > independent and not forcing you to run their OS on one company's
> hardware!
> >
> > Those of us that use Windows as their primary OS, do the same thing as
> > you... you can virtualize and run multiple copies of Windows and other
> > operating systems at the same time like Linux etc... we have been doing
> > that for years of course and yes, we can run hacked versions of the Mac
> OS
> > too if we want to continually fight Apple in their efforts to lock their
> > Free BSD based OS release after release after release (serious irony that
> > they used Free BSD in the beginning and still lock it to their hardware).
> >
> > At the end of the day, it's nice to have options and for there to be
> > multiple competitors to provide us as consumers with better options and
> > lower prices due to that competition. Let's all be glad that there are
> > multiple consumer OS's out there so the companies compete against each
> > other, not to mention the free versions of Linux too. Options are good!
> > It drives competition, innovation and competitive pricing for the masses.
> >
> > Max NG7M
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>