Re: dynamic range question was [FT817] ELECRAFT
Locked
 
|
Ok I admit I do not clearly understand this 30dB better dynamic range.
Can someone put it into terms what this really means on the RX side of things, when you would be in real world operating conditions. It does not have to be about these specific radios listed in the post below, but what does this dynamic range really mean when comparing specfications. Thanks and Happy New Year. Don ~73 Don KD8NNU On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > Matt, > > The KX3 will have about 30 dB better dynamic range than the IC-7000, > even without the roofing filter. > > I'm not knocking the 7000 -- it's a versatile little rig. It's just a > question of how much RX performance you want. Of course the KX3's > ergonomics are completely different, too. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > > On Dec 29, 2011, at 5:43 PM, Matt Maguire wrote: > >> Hi Johnny, >> >> I thought about an FT817, but my reasoning was similar to the points >> you listed. In addition, a friend of mine lent me an FT817 to play >> with, and to do the least little thing you need to go menu diving. >> On the Elecraft gear, most of these common functions seem to be >> readily accessible from the front controls. >> >> As you point out, a used K2 could be a very good deal. The main >> problem with a used K2, though, is that you miss out on all the fun >> of building it yourself :-) I must admit, earlier in the year I was >> thinking about a K2, but was a bit worried about the size for a >> portable setup. But then of course the KX3 was announced, which fit >> my requirements perfectly. >> >> I have ordered a KX3 without a roofing filter, so it will be >> interesting to see how well it performs with just the DSP filtering. >> I do love the flexibility of the DSP filtering on my IC7000. >> However, the nice thing about the KX3 is that I have the option to >> add a roofing filter later if I find it is needed, whereas in the >> IC7000, I don't think adding/narrowing IF filtering before the DSP >> is really feasible. >> >> 73 Matt VK2ACL. >> >> >> On 30/12/2011, at 11:54 AM, Johnny Siu wrote: >> >>> I once used FT817ND for portable operation but I eventually gave it >>> up and replaced it by a K2. My reasons are: >>> ... >>> 1. I was disappointed by the RX performance of FT817 and K2 is far >>> better. FT817 is hot enough to receive everything but I cannot >>> select the station I wanted - very poor selectivity indeed; >>> 2. Current drain of K2 is as low as 180ma; >>> 3. Built-in ATU of K2 (swr 10:1) is convenivent; >>> 4. Built-in speech processor of K2 gives much more talk power; >>> 5. K2 can deliver more power at 10-15W; >>> 6. The V/U operation of FT817 can be covered by H/T >>> 7. A full loaded FT817 with filters, OBP processor etc is not that >>> cheap >>> >>> Most of the above rationale also applies to the decision between >>> KX3 Vs FT817 though it is not quite an apple to apple comparison. >>> Having said that, I still consider FT817 is very value for money >>> because its price in VR2 is less than US$600. >>> >>> With the coming of KX3, I notice many good deals for used K2. If >>> you do not too keen on v/u, used K2 could be a good buy. >>> >>> TNX & 73, >>> >>> >>> Johnny VR2XMC >>> >>> 從︰ egsise <[hidden email]> >>> 收件人︰ [hidden email] >>> 傳送日期︰ 2011年12月30日 (週五) 7:40 AM >>> 主題︰ [FT817] Re: ELECRAFT >>> >>> >>> >>> Ok ok the KX3 looks good on paper, relax it's not an iphone you >>> need to defend. >>> To be honest it's not the price that matters so much, it's just not >>> tested yet. >>> So I highly doubt that the battery drain is lower than >>> FT-817's(actually FT-817 battery drain is not that bad). >>> I doubt that the digital modes are not as easy to operate portable >>> as FT-817 paired with touchscreen smartphone. >>> If the firmware has bugs then it's nice to do the upgrades of >>> course.. >>> >>> I read somewhere that it all starts from A as antenna. >>> O for operator, and last is R as rig. >>> I guess from those three the rig affects least to how many contacts >>> you make. >>> >>> Jani OH9FZU >>> >>> --- In [hidden email], "dyarnes1" <w7aqk@...> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> The KX3 won't appeal to everyone, particularly those who highly >>>> value the 817's ability to cover 2 and 440. However, even a >>>> "stock" KX3 will run circles around an 817 in performance and >>>> features. You get true QSK, a better display, firmware upgradeable >>>> (which Elecraft does better than anyone), Better DSP, PSK31 and >>>> RTTY w/o a computer, much lower battery drain, 8 band equalizer >>>> for both receive and transmit, etc. All this in a package that is >>>> actually smaller and lighter than the 817, and the KX3 even runs a >>>> little more power. >>>> >>>> The actual price differential is more like $250 comparing "stock >>>> model to stock model", and including the microphone. That's not >>>> all that much for the additional performance capability in my >>>> view. Admittedly I priced the "kit" version, but putting these >>>> together is very, very simple. It's just "assembling", not >>>> building. What drives the price up is all the extra goodies that >>>> you can't even get for the 817, mainly the ATU and the narrow >>>> roofing filters. The ATU option is, in my view, a "must" have >>>> considering how well Elecraft ATU's perform. >>>> >>>> There seems to be enough "apples and oranges" differential between >>>> the two radios to make it difficult for a lot of folks to see the >>>> benefit in switching. However, I don't think "value" is really a >>>> valid concern. It's more a matter of just what do you need to be >>>> happy? Isn't it great to have a choice! >>>> >>>> Dave W7AQK >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- In [hidden email], "wildergeek" <kb8ybs@> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> $1,400 for a KX3 equipped the way I'd want it. Think I'll stick >>>>> with my upgraded 817 for a while longer... >>>>> >>>>> Greg >>>>> KB8YBS >>>>> >>>>> --- In [hidden email], "Richard" <f6driver@> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm very interested in the KX-3 and am on their list. >>>>>> I think the receiver on my 817 really does need some serious >>>>>> help, like a narrow IF filter and W4RT DSP mod, >>>>>> and.............the point is why sink another $500 into a 10 >>>>>> year old radio instead selling it and use the proceeds towards a >>>>>> KX-3 state of the art SDR QRP portable. >>>>>> Either way I play it, it's going to cost, so why not end up with >>>>>> the newer technology? >>>>>> I'm ready to get flamed for saying this here, but still would >>>>>> like to hear any arguments that make sense. >>>>>> Richard >>>>>> KE4UN >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> and for a great FAQ ( Frequently Asked Questions ) see >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/database >>> Some really good technical info at: >>> http://www.ussc.com/~turner/ft817pg.shtml >>> Please note that your messages and files sent to this group may >>> appear anywhere on the Internet or in print without notice or >>> compensation. >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/ >>> >>> <*> Your email settings: >>> Individual Email | Traditional >>> >>> <*> To change settings online go to: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/join >>> (Yahoo! ID required) >>> >>> <*> To change settings via email: >>> [hidden email] >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >>> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
|
|
Don
Having owned both a k2 and an an 817, i can say that in terms of working pile up which happens during contesting or sprints and you want to be competitive in bagging who's then it is absolutely no contest because you can pick apart a pileup with the progressively narrow filters better. Also you can work weak signal next to strong one much better because between the filtering and the ergonomics of the k2 or k3 it is just that much easier. The k3 and k2 really shine as serious contesting rigs. I work mostly cw and do sprints with it. For pedestrian portable the 817 can fill a niche but my choice would be to carry a kx1 or Hendricks pfr3 since it is one third the weight and size while at the same time carting a Yaesu VX8r which is VHF UHF 6m with aprs. With only 60 mA on receive the kx1 will outlast the 817 six times over and since I will need to carry a heavy ska battery with the 817 if I need to stay on par in usable tx/rx time. Again in terms of real world receive if what you want to do is work pileups like in an naqcc sprint or QRP fox hunt then it makes a world of difference - like twice as many contacts made. It all depends on what you want your tool to do. To use a woodworking analogy - don't ask a pruning saw to give you furniture grade dovetails. Cheers Ariel Sent from my iPhone On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:51 AM, [hidden email] wrote: > Ok I admit I do not clearly understand this 30dB better dynamic range. > > Can someone put it into terms what this really means on the RX side of > things, when you would be in real world operating conditions. It does > not have to be about these specific radios listed in the post below, but > what does this dynamic range really mean when comparing specfications. > > Thanks and Happy New Year. > > Don > > ~73 > Don > KD8NNU > > > On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > >> Matt, >> >> The KX3 will have about 30 dB better dynamic range than the IC-7000, >> even without the roofing filter. >> >> I'm not knocking the 7000 -- it's a versatile little rig. It's just a >> question of how much RX performance you want. Of course the KX3's >> ergonomics are completely different, too. >> >> 73, >> Wayne >> N6KR >> >> On Dec 29, 2011, at 5:43 PM, Matt Maguire wrote: >> >>> Hi Johnny, >>> >>> I thought about an FT817, but my reasoning was similar to the points >>> you listed. In addition, a friend of mine lent me an FT817 to play >>> with, and to do the least little thing you need to go menu diving. >>> On the Elecraft gear, most of these common functions seem to be >>> readily accessible from the front controls. >>> >>> As you point out, a used K2 could be a very good deal. The main >>> problem with a used K2, though, is that you miss out on all the fun >>> of building it yourself :-) I must admit, earlier in the year I was >>> thinking about a K2, but was a bit worried about the size for a >>> portable setup. But then of course the KX3 was announced, which fit >>> my requirements perfectly. >>> >>> I have ordered a KX3 without a roofing filter, so it will be >>> interesting to see how well it performs with just the DSP filtering. >>> I do love the flexibility of the DSP filtering on my IC7000. >>> However, the nice thing about the KX3 is that I have the option to >>> add a roofing filter later if I find it is needed, whereas in the >>> IC7000, I don't think adding/narrowing IF filtering before the DSP >>> is really feasible. >>> >>> 73 Matt VK2ACL. >>> >>> >>> On 30/12/2011, at 11:54 AM, Johnny Siu wrote: >>> >>>> I once used FT817ND for portable operation but I eventually gave it >>>> up and replaced it by a K2. My reasons are: >>>> ... >>>> 1. I was disappointed by the RX performance of FT817 and K2 is far >>>> better. FT817 is hot enough to receive everything but I cannot >>>> select the station I wanted - very poor selectivity indeed; >>>> 2. Current drain of K2 is as low as 180ma; >>>> 3. Built-in ATU of K2 (swr 10:1) is convenivent; >>>> 4. Built-in speech processor of K2 gives much more talk power; >>>> 5. K2 can deliver more power at 10-15W; >>>> 6. The V/U operation of FT817 can be covered by H/T >>>> 7. A full loaded FT817 with filters, OBP processor etc is not that >>>> cheap >>>> >>>> Most of the above rationale also applies to the decision between >>>> KX3 Vs FT817 though it is not quite an apple to apple comparison. >>>> Having said that, I still consider FT817 is very value for money >>>> because its price in VR2 is less than US$600. >>>> >>>> With the coming of KX3, I notice many good deals for used K2. If >>>> you do not too keen on v/u, used K2 could be a good buy. >>>> >>>> TNX & 73, >>>> >>>> >>>> Johnny VR2XMC >>>> >>>> 從︰ egsise <[hidden email]> >>>> 收件人︰ [hidden email] >>>> 傳送日期︰ 2011年12月30日 (週五) 7:40 AM >>>> 主題︰ [FT817] Re: ELECRAFT >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ok ok the KX3 looks good on paper, relax it's not an iphone you >>>> need to defend. >>>> To be honest it's not the price that matters so much, it's just not >>>> tested yet. >>>> So I highly doubt that the battery drain is lower than >>>> FT-817's(actually FT-817 battery drain is not that bad). >>>> I doubt that the digital modes are not as easy to operate portable >>>> as FT-817 paired with touchscreen smartphone. >>>> If the firmware has bugs then it's nice to do the upgrades of >>>> course.. >>>> >>>> I read somewhere that it all starts from A as antenna. >>>> O for operator, and last is R as rig. >>>> I guess from those three the rig affects least to how many contacts >>>> you make. >>>> >>>> Jani OH9FZU >>>> >>>> --- In [hidden email], "dyarnes1" <w7aqk@...> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> The KX3 won't appeal to everyone, particularly those who highly >>>>> value the 817's ability to cover 2 and 440. However, even a >>>>> "stock" KX3 will run circles around an 817 in performance and >>>>> features. You get true QSK, a better display, firmware upgradeable >>>>> (which Elecraft does better than anyone), Better DSP, PSK31 and >>>>> RTTY w/o a computer, much lower battery drain, 8 band equalizer >>>>> for both receive and transmit, etc. All this in a package that is >>>>> actually smaller and lighter than the 817, and the KX3 even runs a >>>>> little more power. >>>>> >>>>> The actual price differential is more like $250 comparing "stock >>>>> model to stock model", and including the microphone. That's not >>>>> all that much for the additional performance capability in my >>>>> view. Admittedly I priced the "kit" version, but putting these >>>>> together is very, very simple. It's just "assembling", not >>>>> building. What drives the price up is all the extra goodies that >>>>> you can't even get for the 817, mainly the ATU and the narrow >>>>> roofing filters. The ATU option is, in my view, a "must" have >>>>> considering how well Elecraft ATU's perform. >>>>> >>>>> There seems to be enough "apples and oranges" differential between >>>>> the two radios to make it difficult for a lot of folks to see the >>>>> benefit in switching. However, I don't think "value" is really a >>>>> valid concern. It's more a matter of just what do you need to be >>>>> happy? Isn't it great to have a choice! >>>>> >>>>> Dave W7AQK >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- In [hidden email], "wildergeek" <kb8ybs@> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> $1,400 for a KX3 equipped the way I'd want it. Think I'll stick >>>>>> with my upgraded 817 for a while longer... >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg >>>>>> KB8YBS >>>>>> >>>>>> --- In [hidden email], "Richard" <f6driver@> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm very interested in the KX-3 and am on their list. >>>>>>> I think the receiver on my 817 really does need some serious >>>>>>> help, like a narrow IF filter and W4RT DSP mod, >>>>>>> and.............the point is why sink another $500 into a 10 >>>>>>> year old radio instead selling it and use the proceeds towards a >>>>>>> KX-3 state of the art SDR QRP portable. >>>>>>> Either way I play it, it's going to cost, so why not end up with >>>>>>> the newer technology? >>>>>>> I'm ready to get flamed for saying this here, but still would >>>>>>> like to hear any arguments that make sense. >>>>>>> Richard >>>>>>> KE4UN >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> and for a great FAQ ( Frequently Asked Questions ) see >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/database >>>> Some really good technical info at: >>>> http://www.ussc.com/~turner/ft817pg.shtml >>>> Please note that your messages and files sent to this group may >>>> appear anywhere on the Internet or in print without notice or >>>> compensation. >>>> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/ >>>> >>>> <*> Your email settings: >>>> Individual Email | Traditional >>>> >>>> <*> To change settings online go to: >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/join >>>> (Yahoo! ID required) >>>> >>>> <*> To change settings via email: >>>> [hidden email] >>>> [hidden email] >>>> >>>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>>> [hidden email] >>>> >>>> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: dynamic range question was [FT817] ELECRAFT
|
|
In reply to this post by KD8NNU
Don:
Dynamic range is the ratio or the largest signal to the smallest signal that the receiver can properly handle. The low end of dynamic range is smallest signal that the device can detect, and in analog gear like an amplifier or mixer is usually determined by the internal noise generated by the device. This is the "noise floor." It is the strength of the weakest signal just barely discernible in the noise. Typically, the noise floor occurs where the rms value of the signal equals the standard deviation of the noise. The high end of the dynamic range is the largest signal for which output of device remains undistorted. A signal above the top end of the dynamic range will produce a distorted output, and will change the properties of the device such as reducing its gain for all signals. In practice this causes problems if you are trying to listen to a relatively weak signal, and a few kHz away (outside your roofing filter window, but inside the band) "Doub-You Five Texas Kilowatt" fires up the big rig. Suddenly, your weak signal vanishes, because the front end of your rig is "desensed" by the nearby large signal. Since the interfering signal is outside your roofing filter range, you do not actually hear the interfering signal itself, but your reception of the desired signal is disrupted by its effect. Improve the dynamic range of your receiver by 30 dB, and now the interfering station needs a Texas megawatt instead of a Texas kilowatt to cause you the same level of disruption as before. 73 & HNY, Steve AA4AK On 12/30/2011 7:51 AM, [hidden email] wrote: > Ok I admit I do not clearly understand this 30dB better dynamic range. > > Can someone put it into terms what this really means on the RX side of > things, when you would be in real world operating conditions. It does > not have to be about these specific radios listed in the post below, but > what does this dynamic range really mean when comparing specfications. > > Thanks and Happy New Year. > > Don > > ~73 > Don > KD8NNU > > > On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > >> Matt, >> >> The KX3 will have about 30 dB better dynamic range than the IC-7000, >> even without the roofing filter. >> >> I'm not knocking the 7000 -- it's a versatile little rig. It's just a >> question of how much RX performance you want. Of course the KX3's >> ergonomics are completely different, too. >> >> 73, >> Wayne >> N6KR >> >> On Dec 29, 2011, at 5:43 PM, Matt Maguire wrote: >> >>> Hi Johnny, >>> >>> I thought about an FT817, but my reasoning was similar to the points >>> you listed. In addition, a friend of mine lent me an FT817 to play >>> with, and to do the least little thing you need to go menu diving. >>> On the Elecraft gear, most of these common functions seem to be >>> readily accessible from the front controls. >>> >>> As you point out, a used K2 could be a very good deal. The main >>> problem with a used K2, though, is that you miss out on all the fun >>> of building it yourself :-) I must admit, earlier in the year I was >>> thinking about a K2, but was a bit worried about the size for a >>> portable setup. But then of course the KX3 was announced, which fit >>> my requirements perfectly. >>> >>> I have ordered a KX3 without a roofing filter, so it will be >>> interesting to see how well it performs with just the DSP filtering. >>> I do love the flexibility of the DSP filtering on my IC7000. >>> However, the nice thing about the KX3 is that I have the option to >>> add a roofing filter later if I find it is needed, whereas in the >>> IC7000, I don't think adding/narrowing IF filtering before the DSP >>> is really feasible. >>> >>> 73 Matt VK2ACL. >>> >>> >>> On 30/12/2011, at 11:54 AM, Johnny Siu wrote: >>> >>>> I once used FT817ND for portable operation but I eventually gave it >>>> up and replaced it by a K2. My reasons are: >>>> ... >>>> 1. I was disappointed by the RX performance of FT817 and K2 is far >>>> better. FT817 is hot enough to receive everything but I cannot >>>> select the station I wanted - very poor selectivity indeed; >>>> 2. Current drain of K2 is as low as 180ma; >>>> 3. Built-in ATU of K2 (swr 10:1) is convenivent; >>>> 4. Built-in speech processor of K2 gives much more talk power; >>>> 5. K2 can deliver more power at 10-15W; >>>> 6. The V/U operation of FT817 can be covered by H/T >>>> 7. A full loaded FT817 with filters, OBP processor etc is not that >>>> cheap >>>> >>>> Most of the above rationale also applies to the decision between >>>> KX3 Vs FT817 though it is not quite an apple to apple comparison. >>>> Having said that, I still consider FT817 is very value for money >>>> because its price in VR2 is less than US$600. >>>> >>>> With the coming of KX3, I notice many good deals for used K2. If >>>> you do not too keen on v/u, used K2 could be a good buy. >>>> >>>> TNX& 73, >>>> >>>> >>>> Johnny VR2XMC >>>> >>>> 從︰ egsise<[hidden email]> >>>> 收件人︰ [hidden email] >>>> 傳送日期︰ 2011年12月30日 (週五) 7:40 AM >>>> 主題︰ [FT817] Re: ELECRAFT >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ok ok the KX3 looks good on paper, relax it's not an iphone you >>>> need to defend. >>>> To be honest it's not the price that matters so much, it's just not >>>> tested yet. >>>> So I highly doubt that the battery drain is lower than >>>> FT-817's(actually FT-817 battery drain is not that bad). >>>> I doubt that the digital modes are not as easy to operate portable >>>> as FT-817 paired with touchscreen smartphone. >>>> If the firmware has bugs then it's nice to do the upgrades of >>>> course.. >>>> >>>> I read somewhere that it all starts from A as antenna. >>>> O for operator, and last is R as rig. >>>> I guess from those three the rig affects least to how many contacts >>>> you make. >>>> >>>> Jani OH9FZU >>>> >>>> --- In [hidden email], "dyarnes1"<w7aqk@...> wrote: >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> The KX3 won't appeal to everyone, particularly those who highly >>>>> value the 817's ability to cover 2 and 440. However, even a >>>>> "stock" KX3 will run circles around an 817 in performance and >>>>> features. You get true QSK, a better display, firmware upgradeable >>>>> (which Elecraft does better than anyone), Better DSP, PSK31 and >>>>> RTTY w/o a computer, much lower battery drain, 8 band equalizer >>>>> for both receive and transmit, etc. All this in a package that is >>>>> actually smaller and lighter than the 817, and the KX3 even runs a >>>>> little more power. >>>>> >>>>> The actual price differential is more like $250 comparing "stock >>>>> model to stock model", and including the microphone. That's not >>>>> all that much for the additional performance capability in my >>>>> view. Admittedly I priced the "kit" version, but putting these >>>>> together is very, very simple. It's just "assembling", not >>>>> building. What drives the price up is all the extra goodies that >>>>> you can't even get for the 817, mainly the ATU and the narrow >>>>> roofing filters. The ATU option is, in my view, a "must" have >>>>> considering how well Elecraft ATU's perform. >>>>> >>>>> There seems to be enough "apples and oranges" differential between >>>>> the two radios to make it difficult for a lot of folks to see the >>>>> benefit in switching. However, I don't think "value" is really a >>>>> valid concern. It's more a matter of just what do you need to be >>>>> happy? Isn't it great to have a choice! >>>>> >>>>> Dave W7AQK >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- In [hidden email], "wildergeek"<kb8ybs@> wrote: >>>>>> $1,400 for a KX3 equipped the way I'd want it. Think I'll stick >>>>>> with my upgraded 817 for a while longer... >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg >>>>>> KB8YBS >>>>>> >>>>>> --- In [hidden email], "Richard"<f6driver@> wrote: >>>>>>> I'm very interested in the KX-3 and am on their list. >>>>>>> I think the receiver on my 817 really does need some serious >>>>>>> help, like a narrow IF filter and W4RT DSP mod, >>>>>>> and.............the point is why sink another $500 into a 10 >>>>>>> year old radio instead selling it and use the proceeds towards a >>>>>>> KX-3 state of the art SDR QRP portable. >>>>>>> Either way I play it, it's going to cost, so why not end up with >>>>>>> the newer technology? >>>>>>> I'm ready to get flamed for saying this here, but still would >>>>>>> like to hear any arguments that make sense. >>>>>>> Richard >>>>>>> KE4UN >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> and for a great FAQ ( Frequently Asked Questions ) see >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/database >>>> Some really good technical info at: >>>> http://www.ussc.com/~turner/ft817pg.shtml >>>> Please note that your messages and files sent to this group may >>>> appear anywhere on the Internet or in print without notice or >>>> compensation. >>>> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/ >>>> >>>> <*> Your email settings: >>>> Individual Email | Traditional >>>> >>>> <*> To change settings online go to: >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/join >>>> (Yahoo! ID required) >>>> >>>> <*> To change settings via email: >>>> [hidden email] >>>> [hidden email] >>>> >>>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>>> [hidden email] >>>> >>>> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >>>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: dynamic range question was [FT817] ELECRAFT
|
|
In reply to this post by KD8NNU
Don,
Dynamic Range is the range between the minimum signal that can be received to the maximum signal level that causes compression of the radio output. A greater dynamic range means that you can listen to two signals in the passband, one quite weak and one quite strong without overloading the receiver. That is about the most elemental terms that I can use to describe dynamic range. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/30/2011 7:51 AM, [hidden email] wrote: > Ok I admit I do not clearly understand this 30dB better dynamic range. > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: dynamic range question was [FT817] ELECRAFT
|
|
In reply to this post by KD8NNU
I didn't even hesitate adding the KXFL3 to my KX3 order. I may not
notice much up here in the "sticks" of Alaska, but the KX3 will travel with me to the lower-48 and why compromise? The other option was the MH3, mic. I opted out of the paddle-key and internal tuner as I do not anticipate operating portable. Typically have a rental car with mag-mt antennas when traveling or it will have a 100w amp installed in the pickup for mobile and use a higher power tuner. The super packer mic is interesting whenever it is developed. I used to enjoy backpacking/hiking a lot before messing up my ankle on the slopes of Aspen in 1978. I used a handy strap arrangement for carrying my 35mm camera at the ready. It was called a kuban hitch and consisted of a couple elastic straps that held the camera steady on my chest, but allowed quick removal for that "once in a lifetime shot". I got to wondering is some kind of chest strap mount could be made for the KX3 so that the panel would face one's chest while walking and allow it to flip-down so the panel would look up allowing operation of the controls. The antenna might need another mounting separate from the radio? but one could wear a CM500 headset with such a setup. Then a key made up of two finger "thimbles" so one could click forefinger and thumb together to send CW. That would take a very thin dual-cond wire to run up inside one's sleeve and out the neck to the radio key jack. Then all you need is an all-black "Johnny Cash" outfit and dark sunglasses to scare the heck out of anyone on the trail. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] ====================================== ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: dynamic range question was [FT817] ELECRAFT
|
|
In reply to this post by KD8NNU
On 12/30/2011 4:51 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Ok I admit I do not clearly understand this 30dB better dynamic range. In very simple terms, it means that when a very strong signal is very close in frequency to another much weaker signal that you want to listen to, the KX3 can reject a signal that is 30dB stronger than the 817 can reject. Putting it another way, on the 817, the stronger signal would take over, and you wouldn't hear the weaker one, but the KX3 would pull it through. 30dB is 1,000 times the power, which is equivalent to five S-units on a properly calibrated S-meter. The S-meters on K3s are well calibrated if you've run through the procedures in the manual. The S-meters in most other radios are NOT well calibrated, and 30dB are often 8 or 9 S-units. That was the case on several "good" Kenwood and Yaesu rigs I've owned. Most low cost rigs, especially those designed for mobile use (IC706, FT817, FT857, IC7000, and even the IC746) have this poor rejection of strong signals. You can study ARRL Lab reviews of each rig to learn which rigs are better than others in this and many other ways. If you're not an ARRL member, it's worth joining just to have access to this information! 73, Jim Brown K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
|
|
On 12/30/2011 1:03 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 12/30/2011 4:51 AM, [hidden email] wrote: >> Ok I admit I do not clearly understand this 30dB better dynamic range. > > In very simple terms, it means that when a very strong signal is very > close in frequency to another much weaker signal that you want to listen > to, the KX3 can reject a signal that is 30dB stronger than the 817 can > reject. Putting it another way, on the 817, the stronger signal would > take over, and you wouldn't hear the weaker one, but the KX3 would pull > it through. OK ... yet another thing I've apparently forgotten or confused since college oh so many years ago. I thought [and thought I've always thought]: Dynamic Range: For a device, the difference between the peak level of *undistorted* output it will produce and the RMS value of the inherent noise within the device [i.e. zero input]. For an audio *signal* [like music in a concert hall], the difference between the lowest level and the highest peak level of the signal. Symphonic music has a very high dynamic range ... very quiet parts, very loud parts [think "1812 Festival Overture"]. Rap ... not so much. DR="one signal" Dynamic Blocking Range [sometimes Blocking Dynamic Range]: For some specified separation between a desired signal and an interfering signal, it's the difference between the level of the interfering signal and the level of the desired signal at the point where the interfering signal has produced some specified effect on the desired signal. DBR="two signals" If this is wrong, I'd sure like to get it right because I'd like to understand, "The KX3 will have about 30 dB better dynamic range than the IC-7000, even without the roofing filter." 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: dynamic range question was [FT817] ELECRAFT
|
|
On 12/30/2011 3:05 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> OK ... yet another thing I've apparently forgotten or confused since > college oh so many years ago. I thought [and thought I've always thought]: No problem with your definitions, but I was simply attempting to simplify the practical effect of that 30 dB. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
«
Return to [KX3]
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |