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Remote rig versus homebrew challenges

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Keith Heimbold

Remote rig versus homebrew challenges

I'm trying to figure out the best way to do remote and I'm really struggling with trying to homebrew remote with HRD and other application Skype included. I'm seriously considering spending $500 for getting the remoterig. I've been messing around with the programs for months I can't seem to get everything to work right.

I'm using an i5 laptop with four gigs of RAM any USB to four serial port converter. HRD continuously locks up and digital modes I doesn't work for the rotator. Will transitioning to Remote rig take care of this issue or is something wrong with my configuration will not be resolved with Remote rig. At this point I just want something seamless to use that I can plug-and-play. With all the hours I spent on this I'm certainly utilized much time as I would spending for the remote rig.

I like to know which model number I should purchase with PC control and eventually the KX3.

Thanks,

Keith
AG6AZ

Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos
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Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX

Re: Remote rig versus homebrew challenges

Hi Keith,

That is a very broad set of questions. I have successfully ran remote
stations using computer control only for several years, but have
migrated almost everything to the RemoteRig hardware. This brings a
number of advantages and disadvantages, for example:

* Advantages over traditional remote control methods:
o Embedded device - set and forget. User can not mess-up the
interface such as they can on a PC running Windows.
o No PC needs to be running at the remote site
o Small size and low power consumption (2.2 watts using 13.8 volts)
o No issue with installing and running in a rough environment such
as a mountaintop
o High quality audio (using SIP protocol) with selectable CODEC's
o Extremely low latency (about 20 ms). I know of users that use
RemoteRig for QSK CW at 40 WPM over the internet
o Built-in CW keyer allowing the use of a paddle
o Two built-in serial port servers for e.g. CAT and one other
device (e.g. rotator or amplifier)
o Support for multiple locations (profiles) to switch between
remote station locations on the fly
o Support for a virtual FSK COM port, and/or the operator can use
digital modes (e.g. AFSK, PSK31, etc.) by connecting an audio
cable to the control RRC box
o When using a transceiver that has a separate control head, such
as the TS-480, or the twin concept, such as the K3 Twin (2x K3's
or a K3 + K3/0), one can use the control head or other rig at
the remote location as if the rest of the transceiver is also
local. This makes for a better user experience than being
dependent upon using only PC software for transceiver control.
* Disadvantages over traditional remote control:
o Cost is about $500 per set (would however save money if a PC is
not installed remotely)
o Requires some networking knowledge to make the initial set-up,
after that essentiall "plug and play"
o Cost of 2nd K3 or K3/0 if you wish to have the "K3 Twin" experience

As far as your problems are concerned:
- You can pass CAT over COM2 on the RRC's and just run that on your
local PC, HRD or whatever software you wish to use.
- You can pass the rotator over COM1 on the RRC's and just run a
software control over the internet

So yes, I believe that this will solve your problems.

--> You need to first decide if you will go the "Twin" route, or just
run computer control on the control side

You need to buy:
- The set of 2x RRC's
- If going the Twin route, then either a 2nd K3, or the K3/0
- The appropriate cable set depending upon the hardware configuration used

If you have any further questions, just drop me a mail.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN

On 05.03.2012 17:36, Keith Heimbold wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out the best way to do remote and I'm really struggling with trying to homebrew remote with HRD and other application Skype included. I'm seriously considering spending $500 for getting the remoterig. I've been messing around with the programs for months I can't seem to get everything to work right.
>
> I'm using an i5 laptop with four gigs of RAM any USB to four serial port converter. HRD continuously locks up and digital modes I doesn't work for the rotator. Will transitioning to Remote rig take care of this issue or is something wrong with my configuration will not be resolved with Remote rig. At this point I just want something seamless to use that I can plug-and-play. With all the hours I spent on this I'm certainly utilized much time as I would spending for the remote rig.
>
> I like to know which model number I should purchase with PC control and eventually the KX3.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith
> AG6AZ
>
> Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post:mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> --
> Mitch Wolfson
> DJØQN / K7DX
> Georg-Kerschensteiner-Str. 42, 81829 Muenchen, Germany
> Skype: mitchwo - Home:+49 89 32152700 - Mobile:+49 172 8374436
> Echolink: 3001 - IRLP: 5378

Richard Thorne-3

Re: Remote rig versus homebrew challenges

In reply to this post by Keith Heimbold

Keith,

I've done some serious remoting up until recently as we finally move out
to the country.

My advice, get the remote rig. It works and will save you lots and lots
of trouble.

The remote rig is making it so easy. I started with the remote Kachina
505dsp back in the late 90's and worked my way through several different
setups, including using W4MQ's software and home brewing an interface to
locate my TS-480 control head remotely.

The remote rig makes it so easy, a cave man could do it :-)

Rich - N5ZC

On 3/5/2012 10:36 AM, Keith Heimbold wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out the best way to do remote and I'm really struggling with trying to homebrew remote with HRD and other application Skype included. I'm seriously considering spending $500 for getting the remoterig. I've been messing around with the programs for months I can't seem to get everything to work right.
>
> I'm using an i5 laptop with four gigs of RAM any USB to four serial port converter. HRD continuously locks up and digital modes I doesn't work for the rotator. Will transitioning to Remote rig take care of this issue or is something wrong with my configuration will not be resolved with Remote rig. At this point I just want something seamless to use that I can plug-and-play. With all the hours I spent on this I'm certainly utilized much time as I would spending for the remote rig.
>
> I like to know which model number I should purchase with PC control and eventually the KX3.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith
> AG6AZ
>
> Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Keith Heimbold

Re: Remote rig versus homebrew challenges

I appreciate the replies I have received and in light of the custom super computer that I requested one of my IT / VMWare colleagues to build for me with eight serial ports, tons of RAM and a commercial Xeon processor, I will attempt one last weekend to get remote working via HRD, Skype and Logmein. I will continue to process through the great information provided and may even take up the offer from Mitch and Rich and others to contact them if I run into issues.

If I cannot find success soon and I tire of banging my head against the cave's (shack's) wall, I will likely decide to join an illustrious group of cavemen amd cavewomen, and of course non-cavemen and non-cavewomen, who opted to purchase the Remoterig ensemble.

Thanks again for the help.

Keith
AG6AZ

Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos
______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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David Windisch

Re: Remote rig versus homebrew challenges

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Brgds,
Dave, N3HE
Cincinnati OH

Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX

Re: Remote rig versus homebrew challenges

Hi Dave,

Well, indeed there is a simple checklist that I wrote some time ago and
keep up to date. I am sending it to you via a separate mail. It walks
you through the steps to install RemoteRig and make it essentially a
"plug & play" solution. You still need basic network knowledge or find
someone who does, since port forwarding is necessary. However, I can set
that up from here using Teamviewer if absolute necessary.

If anyone else on the reflector needs the checklist or any help, just
let me know. I have installed several dozen of these already.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN

On 06.03.2012 14:04, David Windisch wrote:

> Gol dern it Mitch, I like the concept, *but* it simply ain't PNP, to me, at
> least.
>
> What's holding me back is almost 300 pages of smallprint whostruckjohn
> vagueness masquerading as the remoterig user manual.
> If someone were to produce a Fred-Cady-style explication suitable for a guy
> whose medical vicissitudes of life include being reduced to appliance-op
> status, or maybe less, I'd buy it again. I simply can't "just do it" from
> scratch any more, and I'd be happy to return to the remoterig fold, in
> which, as you may remember, I once was.
>
> I'll also happily retract the pejoratives above, public-ly, in this venue,
> if my searches have overlooked any existing cookbook.
>
> I look forward to your early positive reply, thanks.
>
> Brgds,
> Dave, N3HE
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Remote-rig-versus-homebrew-challenges-tp7345443p7348411.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> --
> Mitch Wolfson
> DJØQN / K7DX
> Georg-Kerschensteiner-Str. 42, 81829 Muenchen, Germany
> Skype: mitchwo - Home:+49 89 32152700 - Mobile:+49 172 8374436
> Echolink: 3001 - IRLP: 5378

Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA)

Re: Remote rig versus homebrew challenges

In reply to this post by Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX

There are probably many different type of applications of remote control of a ham station.
Basically I distinguish between
1) control of a truly remote station (with better antennas than what you can get at the operators site)
2) control of your home station when you are away from home.

Why distinguish?

Because in case 1) you don't necessarily need a computer at the operating position. As others point out, it may even be an advantage to use a dedicated system like RemoteRig.

However, in case 2) you very often need to carry a laptop anyway, so the use of RemoteRig means carrying additional hardware. Even more, iIn case 2) you can do away with a laptop without any special programs installed for the rig control. You can use Logmein which you can reach with a browser. You do need e.g. Skype installed though. In case 2) you can even do away with just an iPhone using Mike KS7D's neat app called K3iNetwork.

You probably can see I'm the typical case 2) user. I've been that for over 5 years now with 15k remote QSOs or more.
Lately having much fun using the iPhone - it works fine up to 24 wpm on CW with my fingersize :-)

If I will have to live in a place without antennas, I will become a type 1) user and then I will use RemoteRig and K3 (or KX3) to K3 remote control.

73 de OZ4UN
Paul
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] På vegne af Mitch Wolfson DJØQN
Sendt: 5. marts 2012 18:12
Til: Keith Heimbold
Cc: Elecraft Group
Emne: Re: [Elecraft] Remote rig versus homebrew challenges

Hi Keith,

That is a very broad set of questions. I have successfully ran remote stations using computer control only for several years, but have migrated almost everything to the RemoteRig hardware. This brings a number of advantages and disadvantages, for example:

* Advantages over traditional remote control methods:
o Embedded device - set and forget. User can not mess-up the
interface such as they can on a PC running Windows.
o No PC needs to be running at the remote site
o Small size and low power consumption (2.2 watts using 13.8 volts)
o No issue with installing and running in a rough environment such
as a mountaintop
o High quality audio (using SIP protocol) with selectable CODEC's
o Extremely low latency (about 20 ms). I know of users that use
RemoteRig for QSK CW at 40 WPM over the internet
o Built-in CW keyer allowing the use of a paddle
o Two built-in serial port servers for e.g. CAT and one other
device (e.g. rotator or amplifier)
o Support for multiple locations (profiles) to switch between
remote station locations on the fly
o Support for a virtual FSK COM port, and/or the operator can use
digital modes (e.g. AFSK, PSK31, etc.) by connecting an audio
cable to the control RRC box
o When using a transceiver that has a separate control head, such
as the TS-480, or the twin concept, such as the K3 Twin (2x K3's
or a K3 + K3/0), one can use the control head or other rig at
the remote location as if the rest of the transceiver is also
local. This makes for a better user experience than being
dependent upon using only PC software for transceiver control.
* Disadvantages over traditional remote control:
o Cost is about $500 per set (would however save money if a PC is
not installed remotely)
o Requires some networking knowledge to make the initial set-up,
after that essentiall "plug and play"
o Cost of 2nd K3 or K3/0 if you wish to have the "K3 Twin" experience

As far as your problems are concerned:
- You can pass CAT over COM2 on the RRC's and just run that on your local PC, HRD or whatever software you wish to use.
- You can pass the rotator over COM1 on the RRC's and just run a software control over the internet

So yes, I believe that this will solve your problems.

--> You need to first decide if you will go the "Twin" route, or just
run computer control on the control side

You need to buy:
- The set of 2x RRC's
- If going the Twin route, then either a 2nd K3, or the K3/0
- The appropriate cable set depending upon the hardware configuration used

If you have any further questions, just drop me a mail.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN

On 05.03.2012 17:36, Keith Heimbold wrote:

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______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX

Re: Remote rig versus homebrew challenges

Hi Paul,

Note that the use of the RRC Micro PC Client does not require one to
carry more than a small (matchbox sized) dongle with a small headset to
match. This gives you access to the RemoteRig installation through your
laptop/notebook, using a control program such as HRD. See
http://www.remoterig.com/wp/?page_id=28 for details.

I use serial port servers (such as from Lantronix) to provide the serial
ports used for linears and rotors over the internet, a computer is very
seldom needed. I am gradually eliminating all remote computers and
replacing them by these servers. As an alternative, there are also some
excellent web-based controllers for rotors, SteppIR and Acom 2000a
available through RemoteRig, see
http://www.remoterig.com/wp/?page_id=1010 for more details.

The list of possibilities actually goes on and on and there is never a
right or wrong method, just the one that fits your needs and pocketbook.
It is fine to use a remote computer with Skype and local serial ports if
that fits your needs. It certainly is cheaper if you already have
everything available.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN

On 06.03.2012 16:39, Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote:

> There are probably many different type of applications of remote control of a ham station.
> Basically I distinguish between
> 1) control of a truly remote station (with better antennas than what you can get at the operators site)
> 2) control of your home station when you are away from home.
>
> Why distinguish?
>
> Because in case 1) you don't necessarily need a computer at the operating position. As others point out, it may even be an advantage to use a dedicated system like RemoteRig.
>
> However, in case 2) you very often need to carry a laptop anyway, so the use of RemoteRig means carrying additional hardware. Even more, iIn case 2) you can do away with a laptop without any special programs installed for the rig control. You can use Logmein which you can reach with a browser. You do need e.g. Skype installed though. In case 2) you can even do away with just an iPhone using Mike KS7D's neat app called K3iNetwork.
>
> You probably can see I'm the typical case 2) user. I've been that for over 5 years now with 15k remote QSOs or more.
> Lately having much fun using the iPhone - it works fine up to 24 wpm on CW with my fingersize :-)
>
> If I will have to live in a place without antennas, I will become a type 1) user and then I will use RemoteRig and K3 (or KX3) to K3 remote control.
>
> 73 de OZ4UN
> Paul
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] På vegne af Mitch Wolfson DJØQN
> Sendt: 5. marts 2012 18:12
> Til: Keith Heimbold
> Cc: Elecraft Group
> Emne: Re: [Elecraft] Remote rig versus homebrew challenges
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> That is a very broad set of questions. I have successfully ran remote stations using computer control only for several years, but have migrated almost everything to the RemoteRig hardware. This brings a number of advantages and disadvantages, for example:
>
>
> * Advantages over traditional remote control methods:
> o Embedded device - set and forget. User can not mess-up the
> interface such as they can on a PC running Windows.
> o No PC needs to be running at the remote site
> o Small size and low power consumption (2.2 watts using 13.8 volts)
> o No issue with installing and running in a rough environment such
> as a mountaintop
> o High quality audio (using SIP protocol) with selectable CODEC's
> o Extremely low latency (about 20 ms). I know of users that use
> RemoteRig for QSK CW at 40 WPM over the internet
> o Built-in CW keyer allowing the use of a paddle
> o Two built-in serial port servers for e.g. CAT and one other
> device (e.g. rotator or amplifier)
> o Support for multiple locations (profiles) to switch between
> remote station locations on the fly
> o Support for a virtual FSK COM port, and/or the operator can use
> digital modes (e.g. AFSK, PSK31, etc.) by connecting an audio
> cable to the control RRC box
> o When using a transceiver that has a separate control head, such
> as the TS-480, or the twin concept, such as the K3 Twin (2x K3's
> or a K3 + K3/0), one can use the control head or other rig at
> the remote location as if the rest of the transceiver is also
> local. This makes for a better user experience than being
> dependent upon using only PC software for transceiver control.
> * Disadvantages over traditional remote control:
> o Cost is about $500 per set (would however save money if a PC is
> not installed remotely)
> o Requires some networking knowledge to make the initial set-up,
> after that essentiall "plug and play"
> o Cost of 2nd K3 or K3/0 if you wish to have the "K3 Twin" experience
>
>
> As far as your problems are concerned:
> - You can pass CAT over COM2 on the RRC's and just run that on your local PC, HRD or whatever software you wish to use.
> - You can pass the rotator over COM1 on the RRC's and just run a software control over the internet
>
> So yes, I believe that this will solve your problems.
>
> --> You need to first decide if you will go the "Twin" route, or just
> run computer control on the control side
>
> You need to buy:
> - The set of 2x RRC's
> - If going the Twin route, then either a 2nd K3, or the K3/0
> - The appropriate cable set depending upon the hardware configuration used
>
> If you have any further questions, just drop me a mail.
>
> 73,
> Mitch DJ0QN
>
>
> On 05.03.2012 17:36, Keith Heimbold wrote:
>> I'm trying to figure out the best way to do remote and I'm really struggling with trying to homebrew remote with HRD and other application Skype included. I'm seriously considering spending $500 for getting the remoterig. I've been messing around with the programs for months I can't seem to get everything to work right.
>>
>> I'm using an i5 laptop with four gigs of RAM any USB to four serial port converter. HRD continuously locks up and digital modes I doesn't work for the rotator. Will transitioning to Remote rig take care of this issue or is something wrong with my configuration will not be resolved with Remote rig. At this point I just want something seamless to use that I can plug-and-play. With all the hours I spent on this I'm certainly utilized much time as I would spending for the remote rig.
>>
>> I like to know which model number I should purchase with PC control and eventually the KX3.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Keith
>> AG6AZ
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post:mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mitch Wolfson
>> DJØQN / K7DX
>> Georg-Kerschensteiner-Str. 42, 81829 Muenchen, Germany
>> Skype: mitchwo - Home:+49 89 32152700 - Mobile:+49 172 8374436
>> Echolink: 3001 - IRLP: 5378
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> --
> Mitch Wolfson
> DJØQN / K7DX
> Georg-Kerschensteiner-Str. 42, 81829 Muenchen, Germany
> Skype: mitchwo - Home:+49 89 32152700 - Mobile:+49 172 8374436
> Echolink: 3001 - IRLP: 5378