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Retiring my MK-II

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Peter W2IRT

Retiring my MK-II

Hi all,
Now that I have my K3s out of the desk for repairs, one of the things I'd
planned to do is to retire my MicroHam Microkeyer-II.

Since the K3s has its own built-in sound card it connects via USB I don't
see the need for the MK-II any longer, and frankly I'd like to reduce the
complexity and clutter behind the radio in a very tight space. I am using
both the K3s and a P3 (with TX monitor), so I'm unsure of the needed
cabling. I also have a Y-box installed at the moment, for my band decoder to
the antenna switch and to my KPA-1500.

I set this all up in July, 2015 and quite honestly, I've forgotten all the
steps I needed to get the rig working with the MK-II, so I'd appreciate any
details of how to get everything working without it.

I know I'm going to lose two things: The Winkeyer, and true FSK RTTY. I've
operated away from home just using the K3s's internal keyer and never had a
problem (I'm still a relative slowpoke, rarely over 32WPM in contests and
lower other times). RTTY will be a challenge for me, though. I haven't used
AFSK for 17 years so would greatly appreciate help in making that work,
especially with dual VFOs.

Thanks in advance!

----------------------------------------------------

Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT

K3s S/N 10023
KPA-1500 S/N 0398

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Lovin' my K3S (S/N 10023)
73, Peter W2IRT

Bob Wilson, N6TV

Re: Retiring my MK-II

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 10:26 PM Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Since the K3s has its own built-in sound card it connects via USB I don't
> see the need for the MK-II any longer, and frankly I'd like to reduce the
> complexity and clutter behind the radio in a very tight space. I am using
> both the K3s and a P3 (with TX monitor), so I'm unsure of the needed
> cabling. I also have a Y-box installed at the moment, for my band decoder
> to
> the antenna switch and to my KPA-1500.
>
> I set this all up in July, 2015 and quite honestly, I've forgotten all the
> steps I needed to get the rig working with the MK-II, so I'd appreciate
> any
> details of how to get everything working without it.
>

Tell MMTTY to use the USB Audio CODEC for reception (and perhaps
transmission). Set MENU:MIC SEL to LINE IN.

The tricky part will be getting PTT to work, since MMTTY can't open the
same serial port if it is also being used for rig control by your logging
program.

I know I'm going to lose two things: The Winkeyer, and true FSK RTTY.

Most logging programs can send decent CW over the K3S USB cable (more
below). This is via "on/off" keying, not KY commands.

FSK RTTY can still be supported by connecting a Serial Box (
https://bit.ly/S-BOX) to your Y-BOX. This provides a separate serial port
exclusively for MMTTY. If all of the 15-pin connectors of your Y-BOX are
already in use, you can use the RCA connectors to connect the two
together. Otherwise, a short 15-pin M/M cable is all you need to connect
them together. Remote K3 power on can also be supported by the S-BOX, if
needed.

I've operated away from home just using the K3s's internal keyer and never
> had a
> problem (I'm still a relative slowpoke, rarely over 32WPM in contests and
> lower other times).

For contests or computer keying, you can set CONFIG:PTT-KEY to RTS-DTR and
tell your logging program to send CW on the DTR pin of the K3S virtual
serial port, and PTT on the RTS pin. Hand sending via the internal keyer
works great too. I've written Win-Test scripts to keep the K3 paddle speed
in sync with the logging program sending speed (or you can set it a few WPM
slower if you prefer). See https://bit.ly/wtscripts (not required).

RTTY will be a challenge for me, though. I haven't used AFSK for 17 years
> so would greatly appreciate help in making that work,
>

No need to use AFSK if you can get FSK to work over a separate serial port
(or virtual serial port). Reception of one or both VFOs would be via the
LINE OUT jack to your PC stereo LINE IN (if it has one). But all MIC
connectors I've seen on PCs are MONO despite using a stereo (TRS)
connector, so you won't be able to use dual VFOs for reception unless you
use an external sound card with a stereo LINE IN jack (external USB sound
cards with a stereo LINE IN jack are very inexpensive at present).

73,
Bob, N6TV
https://bit.ly/Y-BOX
https://bit.ly/S-BOX
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Dave wo2x

Re: Retiring my MK-II

Hi Bob,

I will be helping Peter with this project.

Couldn’t we use the USB in from the radio to PC, then use a program such as CSPE to split the CAT port (created by radio USB) to share between programs and the amp?

Many modern PCs and motherboards have a blue line in connector that accepts stereo input.

73
Dave wo2x

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bob Wilson, N6TV
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 2:09 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector; Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Retiring my MK-II

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 10:26 PM Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Retiring my MK-II

> Couldn’t we use the USB in from the radio to PC, then use a program
> such as CSPE to split the CAT port (created by radio USB) to share
> between programs and the amp?

Yes, if the logging program can handle any "unexpected" responses from
the amplifier. VSPE is an "unmanaged" splitter - data from any port is
echoed to all ports. Some of the better logging software offers the
ability to separately control an amplifier (or external receiver,
slave transceiver etc.).

> Many modern PCs and motherboards have a blue line in connector that
> accepts stereo input.

You should not need that. The K3S (or K3 with KIO3B) USB audio is
stereo with Main RX on Left and Sub RX on Right.

Other than switching between sound card and mic for DVK purposes, the
K3S should be able to handle everything with no external hardware. If
true FSK is important (rather than AFSK), consider MORTTY. MORTTY will
provide a true FSK output from a USB port and is now supported by MMTTY.
Two MORTTY units can provide FSK and a Winkey emulator if you want to
offload CW timing from the PC as well.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2018-10-29 5:55 AM, David Decoons wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> I will be helping Peter with this project.
>
> Couldn’t we use the USB in from the radio to PC, then use a program such as CSPE to split the CAT port (created by radio USB) to share between programs and the amp?
>
> Many modern PCs and motherboards have a blue line in connector that accepts stereo input.
>
> 73
> Dave wo2x
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Bob Wilson, N6TV
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 2:09 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector; Peter W2IRT
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Retiring my MK-II
>
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 10:26 PM Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Since the K3s has its own built-in sound card it connects via USB I don't
>> see the need for the MK-II any longer, and frankly I'd like to reduce the
>> complexity and clutter behind the radio in a very tight space. I am using
>> both the K3s and a P3 (with TX monitor), so I'm unsure of the needed
>> cabling. I also have a Y-box installed at the moment, for my band decoder
>> to
>> the antenna switch and to my KPA-1500.
>>
>> I set this all up in July, 2015 and quite honestly, I've forgotten all the
>> steps I needed to get the rig working with the MK-II, so I'd appreciate
>> any
>> details of how to get everything working without it.
>>
>
> Tell MMTTY to use the USB Audio CODEC for reception (and perhaps
> transmission). Set MENU:MIC SEL to LINE IN.
>
> The tricky part will be getting PTT to work, since MMTTY can't open the
> same serial port if it is also being used for rig control by your logging
> program.
>
> I know I'm going to lose two things: The Winkeyer, and true FSK RTTY.
>
>
> Most logging programs can send decent CW over the K3S USB cable (more
> below). This is via "on/off" keying, not KY commands.
>
> FSK RTTY can still be supported by connecting a Serial Box (
> https://bit.ly/S-BOX) to your Y-BOX. This provides a separate serial port
> exclusively for MMTTY. If all of the 15-pin connectors of your Y-BOX are
> already in use, you can use the RCA connectors to connect the two
> together. Otherwise, a short 15-pin M/M cable is all you need to connect
> them together. Remote K3 power on can also be supported by the S-BOX, if
> needed.
>
> I've operated away from home just using the K3s's internal keyer and never
>> had a
>> problem (I'm still a relative slowpoke, rarely over 32WPM in contests and
>> lower other times).
>
>
> For contests or computer keying, you can set CONFIG:PTT-KEY to RTS-DTR and
> tell your logging program to send CW on the DTR pin of the K3S virtual
> serial port, and PTT on the RTS pin. Hand sending via the internal keyer
> works great too. I've written Win-Test scripts to keep the K3 paddle speed
> in sync with the logging program sending speed (or you can set it a few WPM
> slower if you prefer). See https://bit.ly/wtscripts (not required).
>
> RTTY will be a challenge for me, though. I haven't used AFSK for 17 years
>> so would greatly appreciate help in making that work,
>>
>
> No need to use AFSK if you can get FSK to work over a separate serial port
> (or virtual serial port). Reception of one or both VFOs would be via the
> LINE OUT jack to your PC stereo LINE IN (if it has one). But all MIC
> connectors I've seen on PCs are MONO despite using a stereo (TRS)
> connector, so you won't be able to use dual VFOs for reception unless you
> use an external sound card with a stereo LINE IN jack (external USB sound
> cards with a stereo LINE IN jack are very inexpensive at present).
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
> https://bit.ly/Y-BOX
> https://bit.ly/S-BOX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Gary Smith-2

Re: Retiring my MK-II

In reply to this post by Bob Wilson, N6TV

> I know I'm going to lose two things: The Winkeyer, and true FSK RTTY.

# Perhaps not, I use the marvelous
Win4K3Suite which with com0com gives me
com ports aplenty to use MMTTY, N1MM,
WSJT-X and Logic 9 all running at the same
time. I do need to use winkey with N1MM in
CW if I want to use the keyboard to send.

I check off the Winkey box in the N1MM
setup and use the USB winkey. There are
two connections to the WinkeyUSB box; one
goes to the key and the other USB to the
computer, that's it and the CW transmit
functions work perfectly.

I'm assuming you don't have the USB
version. maybe there's a mod to add USB to
your unit?

With RTTY, I use N1MM and run the MMTTY
digital window with the K3 set to AFSK A
and it works beautifully. When not using
RTTY I set the radio to DATA A for WSJT-X

Flawless.

73,

Gary
KA1J
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Peter W2IRT

Re: Retiring my MK-II

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Smith
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 1:11 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Retiring my MK-II

> I know I'm going to lose two things: The Winkeyer, and true FSK RTTY.

# Perhaps not, I use the marvelous
Win4K3Suite which with com0com gives me
com ports aplenty to use MMTTY, N1MM,
WSJT-X and Logic 9 all running at the same
time.

[pjd] I do plan to purchase Win4K3 eventually.

# I check off the Winkey box in the N1MM
setup and use the USB winkey. I'm assuming you don't have the USB
version. maybe there's a mod to add USB to
your unit?

[pjd] I don't own a stand-alone Winkeyer. I own the MicroHam Microkeyer-II,
has a Winkeyer built-in, and it's that device that I want to retire.

# With RTTY, I use N1MM and run the MMTTY
digital window with the K3 set to AFSK A
and it works beautifully. When not using
RTTY I set the radio to DATA A for WSJT-X

Flawless.

[pjd] That's good to know. I will be using both RTTY and FT-8. For RTTY, the
need is to have left audio/control for VFO-A and right for VFO-B, which is
how I have it set now. Receive shouldn't change, I don't imagine, but I'm
not sure how to transmit RTTY on the K3s without the Microkeyer-II. And as
another posted mentioned, sequencing .WAV files in N1MM and WinWarbler is an
extremely high priority.

There are two issues at play for me. One is a complex hardware setup that
can easily allow the ingress of RFI into the audio chain, and that makes
physical reconnection of the radio a real chore after I have to take it out
for whatever reason. Connections that are fragile, wires that can't be
dressed correctly because of length due to the arrangement of my radio desk
and so on. The other side of the equation, and I think I may be fearing this
even more, is the need to replace all sorts of hardware and cables with a
maze of even more impenetrable software. As anybody who knows me knows, I
*detest* software solutions since it's so easy for any one app to break when
Windows 10 veers off in another direction.

So basically, what it boils down to is this: Can I transmit and receive CW,
SSB, two-VFO RTTY, FT-8 and other digimodes, .WAV file sequencing, firmware
uploads, and CAT control to/from the K3s using mostly just the single USB
cable and the physical connection to my paddles? I want to implement a KISS
solution **IF** it can be done. Otherwise I'll just keep the MK-II in line
since it's a known-valid configuration, albeit one I don't particularly like
(no offense, Joe).

73,

Gary
KA1J
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Lovin' my K3S (S/N 10023)
73, Peter W2IRT

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Retiring my MK-II

On 2018-10-29 1:57 PM, Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) wrote:

> Can I transmit and receive CW, SSB, two-VFO RTTY, FT-8 and other
> digimodes, .WAV file sequencing, firmware uploads, and CAT control
> to/from the K3s using mostly just the single USB cable and the
> physical connection to my paddles? I want to implement a KISS
> solution **IF** it can be done.

The answer to the question in the first line in yes. However, when
you add the additional qualifier that it must be a KISS solution
the answer becomes no.

Simply put, in order to meet your specifications with *multiple*
applications (I know you use N1MM+, DXLab Suite, WSJT-X and MMTTY at
least), you *must* study the various manuals/help files and spend
a significant amount of time configuring each piece of software
to properly relate to the transceiver *and* study the transceiver
Owner's Manual to in order to figure out how to configure the
transceiver for the specific requirements of each application
(as well as vice versa).

For example, with DXLab Suite (WinWarbler) you need to understand
how to integrate transceiver commands with your wave files to switch
the audio input from mic to sound card and back with each wave file
*or* configure the transceiver to enable *both* mic and Line inputs
(and accept issues of noise from the "inactive" input).

> Otherwise I'll just keep the MK-II in line since it's a known-valid
> configuration, albeit one I don't particularly like (no offense,
> Joe).

You now know one of the guiding principles of microHAM's design for
the last 20 years. The microHAM hardware/software is designed to
handle all the configuration issues ... it is intended to utilize
each supported transceiver in the manufacturer's stock/recommended
configuration and handle changes in input/output, etc. based on the
mode reported by the CAT interface, TX/RX status and source of PTT.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

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Bob Wilson, N6TV

Re: Retiring my MK-II

In reply to this post by Dave wo2x

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 2:55 AM David Decoons <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I will be helping Peter with this project.
>

Thanks.

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 10:57 AM Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Can I transmit and receive CW, SSB, two-VFO RTTY, FT-8 and other
> digimodes, .WAV file sequencing, firmware
> uploads, and CAT control to/from the K3s using mostly just the single
> USB cable and the physical connection to my paddles?

Yes.

Can you do it without "a maze of impenetrable software solutions"?

No, but once you get it set up, it won't be too bad.

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 2:55 AM David Decoons <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Couldn’t we use the USB in from the radio to PC, then use a program such
> as CSPE to split the CAT port (created by radio USB) to share between
> programs and the amp?
>

The amp? Since W2IRT has a K3S and KPA1500, no serial connection is needed
between the K3S and the amp. The 15-pin ACC cable between the K3S, KPA1500
and Y-BOX handles all required communication.

Did mean VSPE <http://www.eterlogic.com/Products.VSPE.html>? Here are the
steps to share the K3S virtual serial port between N1MM and MMTTY and use
AFSK RTTY. This method uses the K3S virtual serial port RTS line for
"Hardware PTT" from MMTTY to avoid potential command conflicts that are
possible if you try to use "Radio Command PTT" from MMTTY.

*K3 Setup:*

CONFIG:RS232 USB (In the VSPE setup below, I assume *COM5:* is the FTDI
serial port created by the K3S)
CONFIG:RTS-DTR PTT-OFF (for computer-generated CW, you will have to change
this to CONFIG:RTS-DTR PTT-KEY)
MAIN:MIC SEL LINE IN (make sure *nothing* is plugged into LINE IN or LINE
OUT on the rear panel of the K3, otherwise you get zero audio on the K3 USB
sound card)
MAIN:MIC+LIN OFF (for SSB, you may have to set MAIN:MIC+LIN ON)

*Windows Setup to make the K3 USB Sound Card work in Stereo Mode so you
MMTTY can decode both Main and SubRx:*

1. Windows Key + R (run): mmsys.cpl (shortcut to open Windows sound
control panel)
2. On the *Recording* tab, select the K3's *USB Audio CODEC* and click
*Properties*
3. On the *Advanced* tab, select *2 channel, 16 bit, 48000 Hz (DVD
Quality)* and click *OK*
4. Click *OK* again

*VSPE Setup:*

1. Device | Create | Splitter
2. Virtual Serial Port: COM6, Data Source Serial Port: COM5 (or
whatever the K3 USB cable created, check Device Manager)
3. Check *Redirect Modem Registers*
4. Under Initial modem registers state, *uncheck* both RTS and DTR
5. Click OK
6. Click Start emulation

*N1MM Setup:*

As you were doing before, but use COM6 for rig control instead of COM5

(For CW, specify CW keying on the DTR pin of COM6, PTT on the RTS pin)

*MMTTY Setup:*

1. From the menu, *Option | Setup MMTTY*
2. On the *TX* tab, under PTT & FSK, set Port to *NONE*
3. Click the *Radio Command* button
4. Set Port to *COM6* using the same settings as N1MM, (e.g. Baud:
38400, Data Length: 8bits, Stop: 1bit, Parity: None, Flow control: none)
5. Very important: under *DTR/RTS*, check the box labeled *PTT*
6. Very important: at the bottom, set *Group* to *Clear* so no radio
commands will be sent by MMTTY and only hardware PTT will be used
7. Click *OK*
8. On the *SoundCard* tab, set Reception and Transmission to *USB Audio
Codec*
9. On the *Misc* tab, select Source: *Left* for Main Rx (VFO A) and
click *OK*
10. If you also want to decode Sub Rx (VFO B), you must configure a
second independent instance of MMTTY (launched from a separate directory)
but select Source: *Right*. Perhaps you already had that working.

Of course you'll have to do further fine tuning to adjust audio levels as
required.

GL.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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