Larry,
Thank you for the suggestion. That could be possible. I'd hate to remove the Z10,000 Buffer/Amp to change out a SMD component, but that may be what I will have to do. My Z10,000 is set for 0 dB gain at present. I just e-mailed the Google PSDR-IF group a question about an observation I have made. It may be totally in the wrong pew, but you may want to look for it. And, it may reveal something I am doing wrong. Thanks, Dick, n0ce _________________________ Dick, if some programs work, then your levels may be low. PowerSDR/IF and NaP3 use an algorithm developed by Flex Radio called WBIR (Wide Band Image Rejection). It does a phenomenal job of eliminating images (>80dB) but is sensitive to levels, requiring a minimum amount of total signal power in the display to work. Since you say that other programs work, your issue may be levels. _____________________________- ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld
Whoops, apparently I do not have permission to post to the Google groups, yet. So it will be awhile before I can.
So, FWIW, I will say it here, until then. I have a K3 with a SoftRock Lite II IF receiver , and I have to use SDR-1000 in the setup. When I do the Image Rejection Calibration, I notice the software tunes my radio to WWV at 10 MHz, and then changes it to 9.982 MHz. It looks like it is trying to calibrate for the SDR-1000, but the SoftRock has a 24 KHz offset. Could this be the problem, or not? I set things up according to the best info I could find at the time. Richard Fjeld, n0ce [hidden email] I'd rather be learning. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld
Dave,
I can see your point. One of my earlier posts referred to the problem of finding an acceptable arrangement to have a pan-adapter for a KX3 using the I/Q leads, as the IF isn't brought out. I apologize for not making that distinction in the subject line. That may have thrown others off as well. However, I am using a SoftRock receiver with a K3, so I have many of the same problems as we would have with the KX3, only it would not need the SoftRock. I don't like to express my likes and dis-likes, but since you asked, I will give you my personal opinion about the following programs. Others may dis-agree. Please don't sent me hate mail. You asked about NaP3. Yes, I tried it, and yes I like it, however I have the same mirrored image problem as I do with PSDR-IF as they are similar. YMMV. I think I have tried everything I could find that would be an acceptable matchup, thinking of it for a KX3. I was trying to find something similar to having a P3 in quality. You mentioned TRX-Pan. Yes, I tried it. I should maybe give it another try, but I was not impressed with how it looked. Perhaps I could get used to it. As I remember, it had a big spike in the center which seemed larger than that of WinRad. WinRad and HDSDR, are very sensitive on receive, and have no images. If WinRad provides control, I did not have info on how to use it. HDSDR does, using OmniRig, but control quit working after awhile. Perhaps I did not have time to learn how to set it up properly. One thing I did not like is that it seems to only look upward in spectrum from where the radio is tuned to. But it has other pluses. Both programs show the phase angle, and they record as well. The ZAP feature is nice for cw. Rocky works, but I find it to be more of a tool. It displays the signal strength of the L and R signals (I/Q). That is useful. Rocky can be used, but still not like a P3. I tried SDR-Radio also. I think it may be new in the offering, and more developments may coming. Like HRD, it has many add-ons. It wasn't what I was looking for, but a consideration. All during this time, I have been preparing to give a presentation on SDR to our local club, so could not devote a lot of time to each one, and it would be nice if that was not necessary. Unlike plug and play. I agree with your intended use. I know that SDR offers advantages, but if you have a K3, you will be satisfied with it's performance. Some of the comments I received seemed to be polarized with my appreciation of the P3. The main beef seems to be the screen size. It sure has been adequate for these old eyes. It is plug and play, and fast to use. I have it programmed up for quick button selections for the way I operate, and I like it. If the screen was larger, it would not match the radio. Yes, the addition of a monitor will be nice. I hope we don't lose the ability of looking at the P3 screen when a monitor is used, but we can't expect to have everything. Time will tell. SDR is fun to play around with as a learning tool, and will be rewarding to achieve a beautiful pan-adapter. When I said I was giving up on SDR, I should have said 'for now', as I spoke of the need to correct the problem of mirrored images.It is not just me, as many are having that problem. I was trying to find a pattern among those users who were either successful, or unsuccessful. I didn't get the info I requested. 73, Dick, n0ce ____________________________________________________ The thread title didn't say anything about being restricted to the KX3, and your comment simply stated that you were giving up on SDR in general ... hence my comment. Whatever rig you've been having your problems with (I assume a K3), it certainly wasn't a KX3. I'm curious which programs you have tried that didn't have good rig control. Do you include TRX-Pan and NaP3 in that group? I'm interested because those are the programs I intend to try with my K3. By the way, my intended use would be for spectrum display and point/click QSY. I'm perfectly happy to rely on the rig for actual reception, filtering, demodulation, gain control, etc. Your needs may be different than mine. Dave AB7E ______________________________________________ Richard Fjeld [hidden email] I'd rather be learning. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
I think that the Image Rejection CAL screen only works with SDR-1000
hardware. It was removed in NaP3. Larry N8LP On 11/15/2011 11:01 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:32:11 -0600 > From: "Richard Fjeld"<[hidden email]> > Subject: [Elecraft] SDR-IF and I/Q questions > To: "elecraft posting"<[hidden email]> > Message-ID:<929717600FA246A7AEA27697ADF1FEB3@BIOSTAR> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Whoops, apparently I do not have permission to post to the Google groups, yet. So it will be awhile before I can. > > So, FWIW, I will say it here, until then. > > I have a K3 with a SoftRock Lite II IF receiver , and I have to use SDR-1000 in the setup. When I do the Image Rejection Calibration, I notice the software tunes my radio to WWV at 10 MHz, and then changes it to 9.982 MHz. It looks like it is trying to calibrate for the SDR-1000, but the SoftRock has a 24 KHz offset. > > Could this be the problem, or not? > > I set things up according to the best info I could find at the time. > > Richard Fjeld, n0ce > [hidden email] > I'd rather be learning. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld
You might want to consider buying an XG2 test generator kit from
Elecraft. It would help a lot to have a signal of known level to adjust your overall gain. It would also help with image rejection adjustment, although a single carrier at S9 is a tad low for WBIR to work reliably. WBIR assumes a lot of medium strength signals. As the number of signals goes down, the required strength of the signals goes up. We use -50dBm (S9+23dB) in the shop to check out LP-PANs before shipping. WBIR takes about 10 seconds to find an initial null at this level. The image drops to about -130dBm. If you set your overall gain so that you get a -73dBm blip with the K3 preamp OFF, that would give you about -62dBm with the preamp ON. You can get the extra gain by changing the gain setting resistor on the Z10000, or increasing the sound card gain. If your K3 does not have the buffer mod, that would be a good idea to add as well. 73, Larry N8LP On 11/15/2011 11:01 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:21:24 -0600 > From: "Richard Fjeld"<[hidden email]> > Subject: [Elecraft] SDR-IF and I/Q questions > To: "elecraft posting"<[hidden email]> > Message-ID:<423B456D46A04B79A8646FDD9820B2B2@BIOSTAR> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Larry, > Thank you for the suggestion. That could be possible. I'd hate to remove the Z10,000 > Buffer/Amp to change out a SMD component, but that may be what I will have to do. > My Z10,000 is set for 0 dB gain at present. I just e-mailed the Google PSDR-IF group > a question about an observation I have made. It may be totally in the wrong pew, but > you may want to look for it. And, it may reveal something I am doing wrong. > > Thanks, > > Dick, n0ce ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld
Larry,
I think you are correct. This now makes sense. Thanks, Dick, n0ce _____________________________________________- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:21:58 -0500 From: Larry Phipps <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDR-IF and I/Q questions To: [hidden email] Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I think that the Image Rejection CAL screen only works with SDR-1000 hardware. It was removed in NaP3. Larry N8LP On 11/15/2011 11:01 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:32:11 -0600 > From: "Richard Fjeld"<[hidden email]> > Subject: [Elecraft] SDR-IF and I/Q questions > To: "elecraft posting"<[hidden email]> > Message-ID:<929717600FA246A7AEA27697ADF1FEB3@BIOSTAR> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Whoops, apparently I do not have permission to post to the Google groups, yet. So it will be awhile before I can. > > So, FWIW, I will say it here, until then. > > I have a K3 with a SoftRock Lite II IF receiver , and I have to use SDR-1000 in the setup. When I do the Image Rejection Calibration, I notice the software tunes my radio to WWV at 10 MHz, and then changes it to 9.982 MHz. It looks like it is trying to calibrate for the SDR-1000, but the SoftRock has a 24 KHz offset. > > Could this be the problem, or not? > > I set things up according to the best info I could find at the time. > > Richard Fjeld, n0ce > [hidden email] > I'd rather be learning. Richard Fjeld [hidden email] I'd rather be learning. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Larry, (Reply to message 12, 16 Nov 2011)
Yes, I have the XG2 generator for portable use, and another gen in a IFR1500 I can use. I wrote down the test levels when I tested the SoftRock w/Z10,000 but I don't remember them. I hope I can find the notes easily. I found this interesting: ("As the number of signals goes down, the required strength of the signals goes up") I DO understand the last part of the paragraph, but I have a question about this: ("We use -50dBm (S9+23dB) in the shop to check out LP-PANs before shipping") What is the ratio of input to output level? And better yet, what is the input level you expect to see from the IF of a radio on average? I'm curious. Thanks again, Dick, n0ce ____________________________________________- You might want to consider buying an XG2 test generator kit from Elecraft. It would help a lot to have a signal of known level to adjust your overall gain. It would also help with image rejection adjustment, although a single carrier at S9 is a tad low for WBIR to work reliably. WBIR assumes a lot of medium strength signals. As the number of signals goes down, the required strength of the signals goes up. We use -50dBm (S9+23dB) in the shop to check out LP-PANs before shipping. WBIR takes about 10 seconds to find an initial null at this level. The image drops to about -130dBm. If you set your overall gain so that you get a -73dBm blip with the K3 preamp OFF, that would give you about -62dBm with the preamp ON. You can get the extra gain by changing the gain setting resistor on the Z10000, or increasing the sound card gain. If your K3 does not have the buffer mod, that would be a good idea to add as well. 73, Larry N8LP ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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