SDR-IF and I/Q questions

[Edward R Cole]

Responding the message repeated, below.

Planning on a KX3 and user of SDR sw I am interested in this topic,
though I have no experience with SDR-IF, PSDR-IF, or HDSDR.  I have a
SDR-IQ which interfaces using USB-2.0 and mainly run Spectravue with
it (though I have run Linrad).  Also the K3+LPPan+emu0202 which uses
USB-2.0, also.  These can also utilize software that support
soundcard input (with proper drivers).

My impression was that the KX3 IQ output was analog baseband and not
converted to USB. (?).

73, Ed - KL7UW

Message: 16
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:36:53 -0600
From: "Richard Fjeld" <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] SDR-IF and I/Q questions
To: "elecraft posting" <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <A1A1511B47FF46F7A35DA9C84AFA1D5E@BIOSTAR>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="Windows-1252"

This is the new subject title, and needs some background, so it will
be lengthy this time.

Some of us use SDR-IF, and the new KX3 will use SDR-I/Q methods for
connecting to a computer  running SDR software and seeing the results
on a monitor. (The SDR-IF users must provide a SDR-IF receiver to
bring out the I/Q leads. It is to be assumed that the SDR-IF receiver
is functioning correctly.)  With both types,  I/Q leads are brought
to a computer. (If you are wondering, I am on the list for a KX3)

So the computer AND THE SOFTWARE are the center of attraction here.
This is where great things may happen. (Emphasis on 'may')

Some of us are at different experience levels, but I think we all
would have, and still would, appreciate help to reach
satisfaction.  The reflector is the place for this. The real question
is; Should this be on a dedicated thread?  When I read the KX3 was
going to be SDR capable, I wondered if Elecraft realized what it was
getting into for the reflector?

IMHO, The weak link in this SDR thing is the computer and software.
PSDR-IF has great control features, but when I compare it to HDSDR,
the latter does a great job of displaying the signals and is very
sensitive. PSDR-IF looks at both directions in spectrum, so far, I
can only get HDSDR to look upward in spectrum.

We can't get rid of the mirrored images in PSDR-IF.  ('WE' includes a
friend who still owns 3 of 6 Flex radios he has owned, and 2 of 4
SDR-IF receivers. He is no beginner to SDR.)

My thanks to all who responded. Can't take the space to recap
everything, but Sebastian suggested mirrored images are due to ground
loops. It has been long enough that I can't remember if I checked
that, and I will.  However, why just PSDR-IF and not HDSDR that is
affected?  A ground loop should affect both. Still, it is worth checking out.

Basically, I'm disappointed with the software. I don't mind
installing and setting some options for my type of equipment, but
from there-on I expect it to function conveniently and nearly as well as a P3.

The question for today is; have any Elecraft users achieved that goal
with a computerized pan-adapter? And if so, with what software?  And
if so, do you use a USB to Serial, or straight Serial?


Thanks, from now on it will be shorter.

Richard Fjeld, n0ce
[hidden email]
I'd rather be learning.







73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Ed,

The I/Q outputs are baseband audio - just as would be the case with the
output of LP-Pan, or a Sofrrock receiver, or most any SDR receiver.  The
serial (or USB) port is only used when rig control is introduced in
addition to the panadapter function.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/9/2011 12:31 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote:

> Responding the message repeated, below.
>
> Planning on a KX3 and user of SDR sw I am interested in this topic,
> though I have no experience with SDR-IF, PSDR-IF, or HDSDR.  I have a
> SDR-IQ which interfaces using USB-2.0 and mainly run Spectravue with
> it (though I have run Linrad).  Also the K3+LPPan+emu0202 which uses
> USB-2.0, also.  These can also utilize software that support
> soundcard input (with proper drivers).
>
> My impression was that the KX3 IQ output was analog baseband and not
> converted to USB. (?).
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:36:53 -0600
> From: "Richard Fjeld"<[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] SDR-IF and I/Q questions
> To: "elecraft posting"<[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:<A1A1511B47FF46F7A35DA9C84AFA1D5E@BIOSTAR>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="Windows-1252"
>
> This is the new subject title, and needs some background, so it will
> be lengthy this time.
>
> Some of us use SDR-IF, and the new KX3 will use SDR-I/Q methods for
> connecting to a computer  running SDR software and seeing the results
> on a monitor. (The SDR-IF users must provide a SDR-IF receiver to
> bring out the I/Q leads. It is to be assumed that the SDR-IF receiver
> is functioning correctly.)  With both types,  I/Q leads are brought
> to a computer. (If you are wondering, I am on the list for a KX3)
>
> So the computer AND THE SOFTWARE are the center of attraction here.
> This is where great things may happen. (Emphasis on 'may')
>
> Some of us are at different experience levels, but I think we all
> would have, and still would, appreciate help to reach
> satisfaction.  The reflector is the place for this. The real question
> is; Should this be on a dedicated thread?  When I read the KX3 was
> going to be SDR capable, I wondered if Elecraft realized what it was
> getting into for the reflector?
>
> IMHO, The weak link in this SDR thing is the computer and software.
> PSDR-IF has great control features, but when I compare it to HDSDR,
> the latter does a great job of displaying the signals and is very
> sensitive. PSDR-IF looks at both directions in spectrum, so far, I
> can only get HDSDR to look upward in spectrum.
>
> We can't get rid of the mirrored images in PSDR-IF.  ('WE' includes a
> friend who still owns 3 of 6 Flex radios he has owned, and 2 of 4
> SDR-IF receivers. He is no beginner to SDR.)
>
> My thanks to all who responded. Can't take the space to recap
> everything, but Sebastian suggested mirrored images are due to ground
> loops. It has been long enough that I can't remember if I checked
> that, and I will.  However, why just PSDR-IF and not HDSDR that is
> affected?  A ground loop should affect both. Still, it is worth checking out.
>
> Basically, I'm disappointed with the software. I don't mind
> installing and setting some options for my type of equipment, but
> from there-on I expect it to function conveniently and nearly as well as a P3.
>
> The question for today is; have any Elecraft users achieved that goal
> with a computerized pan-adapter? And if so, with what software?  And
> if so, do you use a USB to Serial, or straight Serial?
>
>
> Thanks, from now on it will be shorter.
>
> Richard Fjeld, n0ce
> [hidden email]
> I'd rather be learning.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
> ======================================
> BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
> EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
> ======================================
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[N8LP]

Take a look at TRX-Pan, Tony. It does exactly that, is very well
integrated with the K3, properly displays both main and sub passbands in
all modes (including data sub-modes) and has a very nice uncluttered
interface. It is very small code-wise, launches immediately and runs
well even on netbooks. It is also very simple to install. It requires
either LP-Bridge or TRX-Manager as the serial interface, but most SDR
users would need LP-Bridge anyway. LP-Bridge is also small and normally
runs in the background.

http://www.telepostinc.com/TRXP.html

Larry N8LP



On 11/10/2011 10:27 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Message: 26
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 21:07:38 -0600
> From: Tony Estep<[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDR-IF and I/Q questions
> To:[hidden email]
> Message-ID:
> <CACHwrmPUciYL54oJ+sim8r+xjuaqOt9=[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Don Wilhelm<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> ==========
> Somewhere along the line there may be a third kind of SDR software:
> program that displays a nice panadapter and provides solid CAT control for
> 2 VFOs, but nothing else. In other words, the routines devoted to signal
> processing, filtering, etc. would be left out, and those functions would be
> left to specialized computing functionality inside the radio, as is done
> with the KX3. It will be cool if the arrival of the KX3 provides the
> motivation for some brave soul (or group) to gut-rehab one of the
> open-source programs such as PSDR so that it fits this description.
>
> Benefits would include a much reduced CPU load and elimination of latency
> problems. The most important benefit, however, would be that cutting out
> the massive code bloat might make it possible for somebody to actually get
> a handle on the mysterious interdependencies and internal conflicts inside
> the code that cause bugs: disappearing config files, unexplained shutdowns,
> loss of functionality, etc. The traditional excuse for these phenomena is
> to blame the OS, the computer, or the user, but we all know better. The
> reality is that when you have a huge, open-ended project, with rubbery
> design specs, with many hands contributing independently, partly
> object-oriented and partly not, partly written in native code and partly in
> interpreted code, partly tested and partly not, you are going to have
> problems. A smaller piece of code with clear design objectives, unity of
> purpose, unity of design and coding standards, and clearly enunciated
> testing checkpoints, would be a really cool thing for the next generation
> of the ham station hardware/software combo.
>
> 73, Tony KT0NY

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[Tony Estep]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Larry Phipps <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Take a look at TRX-Pan, Tony....


Thanks, Larry, I will certainly try it.

73,
Tony KT0NY

--
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
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[Tony Estep]

>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Larry Phipps <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Take a look at TRX-Pan, Tony....
>
>
> Thanks, Larry, I will certainly try it.
>

=========
This looks like a winner. It has a nice display of  both VFOs, mouse-click
tuning, and a few simple controls. It took me 15 minutes to download and
install the new LP-Bridge plus TRX-Pan and configure everything. Maybe
less. It's made to work with a K3, and it does. I should have tried it
sooner.

Thanks again, Larry, et surtout merci bien à Laurent, quelle merveilleuse
app!

73, Tony KT0NY
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