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SDRPlay as panadapter

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Jim Brown-10

Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

On 9/30/2017 2:11 AM, Ian White wrote:
> For measurement purposes I love the SDR-IQ and SpectraVue; but operating and contesting are a different application.

Excellent analysis, Ian. I agree completely. FWIW, Elecraft is very much
in touch with the contesting world -- K6XX works there, and guys like
N6TV had great input into the SVGA. Both are world class contesters. As
both an engineer and a contester, I use spectrum analysis in exactly the
same way that you do, and more than a year ago, acquired three low cost
SDRs for use as spectrum analyzers. A pair of P3/SVGAs live at my
operating position, with monitors on bracketed arms just above eye level.

73, Jim K9YC

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Barry Baines

Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

Jim:

What size SVGA monitors do you use? I presume there is a tradeoff between real estate being used by the monitors versus preferred viewing size for seeing what the P3 can provide.

Thanks,

Barry Baines, WD4ASW

> On Sep 30, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 9/30/2017 2:11 AM, Ian White wrote:
>> For measurement purposes I love the SDR-IQ and SpectraVue; but operating and contesting are a different application.
>
> Excellent analysis, Ian. I agree completely. FWIW, Elecraft is very much in touch with the contesting world -- K6XX works there, and guys like N6TV had great input into the SVGA. Both are world class contesters. As both an engineer and a contester, I use spectrum analysis in exactly the same way that you do, and more than a year ago, acquired three low cost SDRs for use as spectrum analyzers. A pair of P3/SVGAs live at my operating position, with monitors on bracketed arms just above eye level.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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gm3sek

Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

In reply to this post by Dave Fugleberg

Hi Dave

I connect the SDRplay through a 3dB splitter at the 28MHz RX output of
the transverter. A hybrid splitter is used to maximize the isolation
between the SDR and the K3's receiver.

This method is used in preference to the internal 8.2MHz IF output of
the K3 because the transverter output port can deliver a higher
signal/noise ratio to the input of the SDR, which improves its ability
to display extremely weak VHF/UHF signals.

73 from Ian GM3SEK

>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
>[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Fugleberg
>Sent: 30 September 2017 14:15
>To: Ian White; [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDRPlay as panadapter
>
>You raise some great points, Ian. The choice of which type of
panadapter to
>use, as well as how to configure and integrate it, depends greatly on
what
>your purpose is for using one in the first place. We certainly have an
>abundance of riches in the choices available today!
>You've inspired me to spend some more time tinkering with the RSP1 and
>HDSDR. I use my K3 with transverters for VHF+ contesting as well,
although
>I'm usually a rover station so monitor space is very limited...
>You said you connect the SDR at the 28 MHZ transverter IF... Do you
simply

>add it to the IF daisy chain on the receive side?
>Thanks for the thoughtful response. I learn a lot from this list.
>73 de W0ZF
>On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 4:12 AM Ian White <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> N7WS wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"SpectraVue software is the only SDR software I've ever liked. It
>> interfaces
>> >with the K3 seamlessly. Every other program I've tried has been
>> installed
>> >and
>> >quickly uninstalled. Sometimes more than once, usually having me

ask
>> >myself,
>> >"Self, what were you thinking?" before uninstalling again.
Apparently,

>> >programmers do not think like normal people do and try to turn a
>> relatively
>> >simple tool into a video game. " Sorry Lyle:-)
>> >
>>
>> For measurement purposes I love the SDR-IQ and SpectraVue; but
>operating
>> and contesting are a different application.
>>
>> When operating, I focus almost entirely on the waterfall display

because
>> that presents a time-history of everything that has been happening
for the
>> past several minutes across the entire displayed bandwidth. The
waterfall
>> is a huge information resource. On an empty band the waterfall shows
>> instantly where new stations are popping up, while on a full band it
shows
>> if there are any free channels and how long they have been free.
>Meanwhile
>> the color shading shows which signals are strongest, and instantly
>> identifies which ones are spreading more than they should.
>>
>> Compared with that wealth of operating information from the
waterfall, I
>> find the spectrum-analyzer display is almost worthless (but remember
>we're
>> talking about here operating, as distinct from making measurements).
>>
>> To extract the maximum possible information from the waterfall, I
>normally
>> maximize the vertical size, aiming for a time-span of 3-5 minutes.
The
>> spectrum analyzer display is always minimized (and if the display
software
>> allows, I get rid of it entirely). When operating, the waterfall
display is
>> front-and-center on a wide-screen monitor. For most modes, only the
>small
>> log input windows need to share display space at the bottom of the
>screen,
>> and all other operating windows are displayed on a second monitor.
RTTY
>is
>> the only exception, where multiple decoder windows take over the
center
>> screen and the waterfall has to take second place.
>>
>> I currently have two K3s with different types of spectrum/waterfall
>> displays. The HF/50MHz setup uses a P3, which of course has the
>advantage
>> of very tight integration with the K3. However, I do find that the P3
>> requires the SVGA adapter to display the wealth of detail that the
>> waterfall has to offer. The P3's own screen is bright and clear, but
is
>> simply too small (in terms of pixels). And unfortunately the P3/SVGA
has a
>> number of disadvantages compared with the SDR-PC competition. There
is
>an
>> issue with the P3SVGA's limited color palette which tends to suppress
>> weaker signals. The P3 also lacks any method to QSY *quickly* across
a
>wide
>> frequency span to grab fleeting DX opportunities on a nearly empty
band.
>>
>> The other K3 is used with external VHF/UHF transverters, and for this
>> application I decided not to buy another P3 but to play the market of
>> separate SDRs and PC software.
>>
>> The SDR is attached to the K3 at the transverter IF frequency of
28MHz,
>> which gives much better display sensitivity than the 8.2MHz IF. For
>VHF/UHF
>> contesting and DXing it is essential to display everything that lives
and
>> breathes across the entire "contest sub-band", which in Europe
extends
>over
>> at least 250kHz. Important multipliers tend to lurk at both the top
and

>> bottom ends of that range, so 200kHz is not acceptable. Several good
>SDRs
>> with 190-200kHz maximum bandwidths, including the SDR-IQ and the P3,
>had to
>> be ruled out for that reason. After some searching I found that the
>SDRplay
>> RSP-1 delivered the best combination of dynamic range, available
>spectrum
>> width (far more than I need) and value for money.
>>
>> Again after some experimentation, I settled on the HDSDR software,

which
>> gives a very readable and sensitive display on the large screen and
>> provides most of the facilities of a second receiver. Integration
with the
>> K3 was not easy to configure, but after some work it now has all the
>> frequency agility that is so lacking in the P3. The SDR frequency is
linked
>> to VFO B on the K3, and can be tuned using any combination of the VFO
B
>> knob, point-and-click on the display (rolling the mouse wheel for
fine
>> tuning), clicking on the bandmap in N1MM+, or typing frequencies
directly
>> into the callsign window. Thanks to HDSDR's built-in Omnirig
interface,
>any
>> one of those frequency inputs will automatically update all the
others. As
>> a receiver, the SDR is more than adequate for searching the band and
>> finding new stations to work, interleaved with calling CQ on the K3.
If a
>> new station appears on the SDR, its frequency is already pre-loaded
into
>> VFO B on the K3 so one tap of VFO A/B will sw
>> ap that signal into the K3, ready to call at the right moment.
>>
>> I do share Wes's dislike of "video-game" displays. I hate how modern
>> software so often arrives with every possible function activated at
once...
>> but if you take the time to strip away the dross, the end result can
be
>> quite lean and functional. Maximizing the waterfall display and
hiding the

>> controls tends to remove most of those annoyances, and the advantages
>of a
>> really good panadapter have persuaded me to live with the rest.
>>
>>
>> 73 from Ian GM3SEK
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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gm3sek

Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

K9YC wrote:

>more than a year ago, [I] acquired three low cost
>SDRs for use as spectrum analyzers. A pair of P3/SVGAs live at my
>operating position, with monitors on bracketed arms just above eye
level.

"Why do you have six monitors?" someone asked the author Terry
Pratchett.

His reply: "Because I don't have enough space for eight".

73 from Ian GM3SEK

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Jim Brown-10

Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

In reply to this post by gm3sek

ND0B (North Dakota Bill) is two grids away from the FFMA award for
working all grids in the lower 48 states on 6M. This is a quote from his
website:

"More recently I have been experimenting with RTL dongles and SDR
Console on receive for 6m. The sensitivity and noise immunity of this
combination is incredible and in many cases it out performs my Flex
6700. My recent contact with W6JTI flat would not have been possible
without this combination."

W6JTI and K6EU had hiked 3 miles up a mountain trail (2,000 ft climb)
with a KX3/KXPA100 and a 3-el Yagi to activate CM79, so that's the
station ND0B was trying to work, the band wasn't very open, and Frank
only works CW. :) Frank and Tom were up there two days, and it took
early morning "just barely there" conditions to make the QSO. And, of
course, both guys are superb CW operators.

73, Jim K9YC

On 9/30/2017 9:08 AM, Ian White wrote:

> Hi Dave
>
> I connect the SDRplay through a 3dB splitter at the 28MHz RX output of
> the transverter. A hybrid splitter is used to maximize the isolation
> between the SDR and the K3's receiver.
>
> This method is used in preference to the internal 8.2MHz IF output of
> the K3 because the transverter output port can deliver a higher
> signal/noise ratio to the input of the SDR, which improves its ability
> to display extremely weak VHF/UHF signals.

Jim Brown-10

Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

In reply to this post by Barry Baines

On 9/30/2017 8:51 AM, Barry Baines wrote:
> What size SVGA monitors do you use? I presume there is a tradeoff between real estate being used by the monitors versus preferred viewing size for seeing what the P3 can provide.
Exactly right. There's also the issue of finding monitors that will run
on 12-14VDC, so that they can be powered from clean power supplies. :)
And you want a monitor with a VESA mount. Several years ago, Costco was
selling a 24-in Samsung that runs on a nominal 14VDC, and that is
reasonably quiet if its cables are well choked. 14VDC models have been
disappearing from Samsung's product line, but there may still be some
around. Also, not all Samsung monitors are RF quiet -- W4UAT gave me one
with touch controls that turned flips in the presence of RF and also was
quite noisy. He couldn't use it in his station because he was on a small
lot with antennas very close to the shack. I tried using it for a while,
but eventually gave it away.

73, Jim K9YC

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Clay Autery-2

Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

In reply to this post by rlindzen

I've pretty much become resigned to the need to provide a dedicated DC voltage to the monitors, etc... I'm hacking on a monitor like the two I'm using to figure out where to bypass the internal power supply and tap in to provide clean DC.
At this point, I'm simply trying to minimize the number of voltages required rather than get everything to the near 12-14 vdc...

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]> Date: 9/30/17 19:25 (GMT-06:00) To: Reflector Elecraft <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDRPlay as panadapter
On 9/30/2017 8:51 AM, Barry Baines wrote:
> What size SVGA monitors do you use? I presume there is a tradeoff between real estate being used by the monitors versus preferred viewing size for seeing what the P3 can provide.
Exactly right. There's also the issue of finding monitors that will run
on 12-14VDC, so that they can be powered from clean power supplies. :)
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Bill Frantz

[OT] was Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

In reply to this post by gm3sek

And Doug Englebart, when asked why the mouse had 3 buttons
replied, "Because I could only cram 3 microswitches in the case.".

73 Bill AE6JV

On 9/30/17 at 9:17 AM, [hidden email] (Ian White) wrote:

>"Why do you have six monitors?" someone asked the author Terry
>Pratchett.
>His reply: "Because I don't have enough space for eight".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to
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408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
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Jeff Griffin

Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

In reply to this post by rlindzen

I run 2 HP 2311x's here on 12v...

73 Jeff kb2m

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Clay Autery
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 9:10 PM
To: [hidden email]; Reflector Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDRPlay as panadapter

I've pretty much become resigned to the need to provide a dedicated DC voltage to the monitors, etc... I'm hacking on a monitor like the two I'm using to figure out where to bypass the internal power supply and tap in to provide clean DC.
At this point, I'm simply trying to minimize the number of voltages required rather than get everything to the near 12-14 vdc...

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]> Date: 9/30/17 19:25 (GMT-06:00) To: Reflector Elecraft <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDRPlay as panadapter On 9/30/2017 8:51 AM, Barry Baines wrote:
> What size SVGA monitors do you use? I presume there is a tradeoff between real estate being used by the monitors versus preferred viewing size for seeing what the P3 can provide.
Exactly right. There's also the issue of finding monitors that will run on 12-14VDC, so that they can be powered from clean power supplies. :) ______________________________________________________________
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Michael Walker

Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

I am surprised about the 6700 comment.

There is a Software fix for SmartSDR that addresses the pre-amps on the
6700. I wonder if he had it applied.

Mike va3mw

On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 7:27 AM, jeff griffin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I run 2 HP 2311x's here on 12v...
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-bounces@
> mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Clay Autery
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 9:10 PM
> To: [hidden email]; Reflector Elecraft
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDRPlay as panadapter
>
> I've pretty much become resigned to the need to provide a dedicated DC
> voltage to the monitors, etc... I'm hacking on a monitor like the two I'm
> using to figure out where to bypass the internal power supply and tap in to
> provide clean DC.
> At this point, I'm simply trying to minimize the number of voltages
> required rather than get everything to the near 12-14 vdc...
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: Jim Brown <
> [hidden email]> Date: 9/30/17 19:25 (GMT-06:00) To:
> Reflector Elecraft <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft]
> SDRPlay as panadapter On 9/30/2017 8:51 AM, Barry Baines wrote:
> > What size SVGA monitors do you use? I presume there is a tradeoff
> between real estate being used by the monitors versus preferred viewing
> size for seeing what the P3 can provide.
> Exactly right. There's also the issue of finding monitors that will run on
> 12-14VDC, so that they can be powered from clean power supplies. :)
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>
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Edward R Cole

Re: SDRPlay as panadapter

In reply to this post by rlindzen

Like Wes-N7WS writes, I have a SDR-IQ and use Spectravue. I have the
SDR-IQ in parallel with my K3 looking at 28-MHz IF output from my
transverters 144 thru 1296. I mainly use the "Combo" display for
watching 100-KHz of activity on 1296-eme or use the "Continuum"
display for measuring sun noise vs cold sky to check dish
performance. But understand Ian's need to watch 250-KHz for crowded
EU VHF contests.

I'd like to make an endorsement (OT) for Ian's Triode Board which he
sells for high-power triode amplifiers. It made building my 2m-8877
possible as all bias, current and HV monitoring and overcurrent
protection are handled, including warm-up delay timing. If you are
building a high power triode amp this IS the needed component. My
Triode board has faithfully run 1500w key-down JT65 for several
years. Thanks Ian.

Of course if you are running sspa it does not apply.

I hope to have a 1200w 2m LDMOS 2m linear (W6PQL-kit) running by
spring so my 8877 linear and HVPS will be available for sale at that
time (probably OT for this list). Due to shipping size/cost I may
part out the HVPS and 200-lb. HV transformer FS here in Alaska.

73, Ed - KL7UW

From: "Ian White" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Dave Fugleberg'" <[hidden email]>,
<[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SDRPlay as panadapter
Message-ID: <00cc01d33a06$63e5dda0$2bb198e0$@co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Dave

I connect the SDRplay through a 3dB splitter at the 28MHz RX output of
the transverter. A hybrid splitter is used to maximize the isolation
between the SDR and the K3's receiver.

This method is used in preference to the internal 8.2MHz IF output of
the K3 because the transverter output port can deliver a higher
signal/noise ratio to the input of the SDR, which improves its ability
to display extremely weak VHF/UHF signals.

73 from Ian GM3SEK

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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