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Sherwood report and K3 agc

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Dick Hanson

Sherwood report and K3 agc

Really glad to see this discussed here. Sherwood is usually pretty close to
the mark on his tests etc, so very happy the E Team on top of and out front
on this very impt issue.
Best,
Dick, K5AND

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johnny-52

RE: Sherwood report and K3 agc

Hi Dick,

I own IC7800, IC781 and K2. I also bought Sherwood cool fan kit for my
Ic781. Having said that, I do not entirely agree to Sherwood report nor
having the same observation about AGC or pinfalls of modern DSP rigs

It is my opinion and may only be applicable to my QTH and operation
condition.

73

Johnny Siu VR2XMC

From: "Dick Hanson" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft " <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Sherwood report and K3 agc
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 06:34:42 -0500

Really glad to see this discussed here. Sherwood is usually pretty close to
the mark on his tests etc, so very happy the E Team on top of and out front
on this very impt issue.
Best,
Dick, K5AND

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 人氣搜尋，有齊城中熱門話題 http://www.msn.com.hk/hothits/default.asp

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Brett gazdzinski-2

RE: Sherwood report and K3 agc

I only had an icom 756 pro and the R4C, TS440, IC735, plus
other really old boatanchor receivers, and while I
never paid real close attention to the old ones on CW,
I know the 756 pro was nasty sounding compared
to the K2 on CW.

I suspect if my homebrew receivers were set up for
CW, they would be better sounding then the K2, but
have other serious limitations.

Generally speaking, I find all the new stuff sounds
quite nasty in many respects, even under good band
conditions they are noisy and distorted.
All those high gain chips, mixing, processing, low fi
audio stages... 1.5 watts out at 10% distortion???

I also know many people think a really poor sounding
radio sounds great to them, there are very low expectations
from some operators I guess.

Even the AM community has a good share of people with low
expectations, despite the mode having a fidelity bias.

Brett
N2DTS

>
> Hi Dick,
>
> I own IC7800, IC781 and K2. I also bought Sherwood cool fan
> kit for my
> Ic781. Having said that, I do not entirely agree to Sherwood
> report nor
> having the same observation about AGC or pinfalls of modern DSP rigs
>
> It is my opinion and may only be applicable to my QTH and operation
> condition.
>
> 73
>
> Johnny Siu VR2XMC
>
>
> From: "Dick Hanson" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Elecraft " <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Sherwood report and K3 agc
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 06:34:42 -0500
>
> Really glad to see this discussed here. Sherwood is usually
> pretty close to
> the mark on his tests etc, so very happy the E Team on top of
> and out front
> on this very impt issue.
> Best,
> Dick, K5AND
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 人氣搜尋，有齊城中熱門話題 http://www.msn.com.hk/hothits/default.asp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

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Darwin, Keith

RE: Sherwood report and K3 agc

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Brett. There is a vast
difference in the sound of different receivers. I've listened
critically to several:

IC-735
TT Omni V (0.9 mods, mint)
TT Corsair II
TT Omni C
TT Century 21
TT Century 22
TS-830s (mint condx)
TS-930s
Drake R-4A (had some issues)
Drake 2B (in VG condition)

Many (most) of them actually sounded rather nasty. The 2B was very
sweet sounding but had issues with the overly aggressive AGC. 830s was
pretty good as was the R-4A. The worst of the bunch (Omni V, 930s, 735)
just sound bad. Harsh, loud, distorted, spikey - many words describe it
but the bottom line is they make me want to QRT before the QSO has
ended. And those are all well respected rigs. I can't imagine how bad
a run-of-the-mill rig must sound.

The K1 and K2 are notable exceptions. These rigs sound pretty good
(esp. K1). Smooth, easy on the ears.

I can't for the life of me understand how so many people are so happy
with these rigs, but they are. Actually, I guess I used to love them
too but then I actually took the time to listen.

That was probably a mistake on my part since the only rig I'll own now
is a K1, K2 or (someday) K3.

- Keith -

-----Original Message-----
From: Brett gazdzinski

I also know many people think a really poor sounding radio sounds great
to them, there are very low expectations from some operators I guess.

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johnny-52

RE: Sherwood report and K3 agc

Hello,

Well, i f we are talking about sweet audio, then I agree that my IC781 and
ICR9000L sound much nicer and sweeter than my DSP rigs. DSP rigs do have
noticable artifacts.

Oh, I must mention that most of comemts made before or in this email are
with reference to SSB mode.

My K2 is now without KDSP2 though I once installed it.

73

Johnny Siu VR2XMC

From: "Darwin, Keith" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Sherwood report and K3 agc
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 06:24:01 -0700

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Brett. There is a vast
difference in the sound of different receivers. I've listened
critically to several:

IC-735
TT Omni V (0.9 mods, mint)
TT Corsair II
TT Omni C
TT Century 21
TT Century 22
TS-830s (mint condx)
TS-930s
Drake R-4A (had some issues)
Drake 2B (in VG condition)

Many (most) of them actually sounded rather nasty. The 2B was very
sweet sounding but had issues with the overly aggressive AGC. 830s was
pretty good as was the R-4A. The worst of the bunch (Omni V, 930s, 735)
just sound bad. Harsh, loud, distorted, spikey - many words describe it
but the bottom line is they make me want to QRT before the QSO has
ended. And those are all well respected rigs. I can't imagine how bad
a run-of-the-mill rig must sound.

The K1 and K2 are notable exceptions. These rigs sound pretty good
(esp. K1). Smooth, easy on the ears.

I can't for the life of me understand how so many people are so happy
with these rigs, but they are. Actually, I guess I used to love them
too but then I actually took the time to listen.

That was probably a mistake on my part since the only rig I'll own now
is a K1, K2 or (someday) K3.

- Keith -

-----Original Message-----
From: Brett gazdzinski

I also know many people think a really poor sounding radio sounds great
to them, there are very low expectations from some operators I guess.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Tool Bar 幫你刪除惱人的廣告 ! http://toolbar.msn.com.hk

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David Cutter

Re: RE: Sherwood report and K3 agc

In reply to this post by Dick Hanson

I found the FT1000MP to have a softer, more pleasant sound and easier to do long operating times compared to the 756 which was unpleasant after just a few minutes, even tho it seemed to perform better.

David G3UNA

>
> From: Brett gazdzinski <[hidden email]>
> Date: 2007/06/07 Thu PM 01:54:43 BST
> To: 'Elecraft' <[hidden email]>
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Sherwood report and K3 agc
>
> I only had an icom 756 pro and the R4C, TS440, IC735, plus
> other really old boatanchor receivers, and while I
> never paid real close attention to the old ones on CW,
> I know the 756 pro was nasty sounding compared
> to the K2 on CW.
>
> I suspect if my homebrew receivers were set up for
> CW, they would be better sounding then the K2, but
> have other serious limitations.
>
> Generally speaking, I find all the new stuff sounds
> quite nasty in many respects, even under good band
> conditions they are noisy and distorted.
> All those high gain chips, mixing, processing, low fi
> audio stages... 1.5 watts out at 10% distortion???
>
>
> I also know many people think a really poor sounding
> radio sounds great to them, there are very low expectations
> from some operators I guess.
>
> Even the AM community has a good share of people with low
> expectations, despite the mode having a fidelity bias.
>
>
> Brett
> N2DTS
>
>
> >
> > Hi Dick,
> >
> > I own IC7800, IC781 and K2. I also bought Sherwood cool fan
> > kit for my
> > Ic781. Having said that, I do not entirely agree to Sherwood
> > report nor
> > having the same observation about AGC or pinfalls of modern DSP rigs
> >
> > It is my opinion and may only be applicable to my QTH and operation
> > condition.
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Johnny Siu VR2XMC
> >
> >
> > From: "Dick Hanson" <[hidden email]>
> > To: "Elecraft " <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Sherwood report and K3 agc
> > Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 06:34:42 -0500
> >
> > Really glad to see this discussed here. Sherwood is usually
> > pretty close to
> > the mark on his tests etc, so very happy the E Team on top of
> > and out front
> > on this very impt issue.
> > Best,
> > Dick, K5AND
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN ????????????? http://www.msn.com.hk/hothits/default.asp
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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Marteinn Sverrisson

RE: Sherwood report and K3 agc

In reply to this post by Dick Hanson

Hi

If K2 sounds better than most modern rigs, then listen to the
soundfiles on

http://www.qslnet.de/member/df7tv/nc2030pn.html

and compare the sounds of NC2030 and K2, in my opinion the NC2030 is
far superior sounding under these conditions,
compared to K2, judging from these recordings.

73, Matti
--
Marteinn Sverrisson TF3MA
Langitangi 2 Internet: tf3ma [at] raunvis [dot] hi [dot] is
270 Mosfellsbær http://www.raunvis.hi.is/~tf3ma
Iceland
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Brian Lloyd-6

Re: Sherwood report and K3 agc

In reply to this post by johnny-52

I do a fair bit of digital recording. Ticks and pops are usually a
sign that the DSP engine is not processing samples fast enough,
usually because of latency in the operating system. I would expect
this to be a less-likely problem with dedicated DSP where the
designer knows ahead of time how he/she wants to spend the CPU cycles
to ensure that the CPU is never saturated. I do not for a moment
believe that this is a problem inherent in the use of DSP in the IF/
demod stages.

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com

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