Shipping Status Page

[Stewart Baker]

That's also my take on it Joe     F.W.I.W.

Stewart G3RXQ
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:07:05 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> Kevin,
>
>> I'm still trying to figure out why people who paid VOLUNTARY
>> deposits or were in "the first run", or second run, didn't pay
>> deposits, etc, etc, etc, Ad nauseam, are entitled to a unit by
>> unit run down of radios going out the door.
>>
> I've remained silent on the shipping date issue until today.
> However, those in the first batch were told to expect their
> radios before the end of October, those in the second batch
> before the end of November. It's now well into December and
> the first batch is not finished and - at the current rate -
> may not be finished before the end of the year given typical
> holiday production/shipping schedules.  When deliveries are
> going to be more than 30 days late (which is obviously the
> case here), a vendor owes the customer - particularly customers
> with firm orders - a bit more explanation, certainty and
> candor than have been visible to date.
>
> Based on the reported deliveries, Elecraft have shipped an
> average of 25 units a week.  Even if that jumps to 50 a week
> it will be the end of the year before the first 250 units have
> all been shipped and late into February before the next 250
> ship.  Note I'm not saying "are complete" because there still
> is still no clarity on shipping for the second receiver, FM
> filter or KDVR3 for many of those orders.
>
>> I've also noticed that the most vocal production and inventory
>> "specialists" aren't in any hurry to cancel their orders.
>>
> So what?  Most of those who have ordered expect the K3 to be
> the best performing radio available - that's the reason they
> ordered it.  They want the radio - why would they cancel their
> orders?
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Don Wilhelm-4]

I am not about to leave the list yet, but those who perpetually complain
on this list should know that it really does no good, and does direct
some anger at those who do the complaining - most of us can do nothing
about your complaint, an email direct to Elecraft would likely be more
effective.
But then, I know, there are folks who want to share their misery and
complaints with everyone else.  May I suggest the wiki be used for that
and keep this reflector for more technical issues - but then I am not
the list cop, so my opinions can be ignored too.

73,
Don W3FPR

Greg Derda wrote:
> I'll finally chime in as well, and AGREE with Jason!  We "have to get
> used to it"?  I've never seen so many arrogant, whining twits in my
> entire life!!  Get a hobby!  I'm outta here as well.....
>
> Greg
> ki4mmm
>
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Chris G3SJJ]

Jason, with respect, this is not bitching.

All people are asking for is honest and realistic communication from
Elecraft.

Lies and broken promises are fuelling discontent. People have contacted
Elecraft directly and are constantly being fed rubbish.

This is yet another email which needn't have been sent if we were kept
properly informed.

Honesty first, radio whenever.      Chris G3SJJ




Jason Milldrum wrote:

> However, I've become
> completely exhausted of this list turning into the "All K3 Bitchfest,
> All Of The Time". I understand that some complaining is normal and
> justified, but if you truly have so much angst about your declining
> perception of the Elecraft mojo, then perhaps it's time to have a chat
> with Elecraft directly or cancel your order. The level of whining on
> the list has ruined it for me. I understand you all have every right
> to be mad...and I might be too if I were in your shoes. However, I
> feel that this topic has been allowed to dominate the list to the
> detriment of everyone else.
>
> So, no, I don't have to get used to it. I'm just going to unsubscribe
> and wash my hands of this whole mess. I'll look for technical
> discussion and advice elsewhere.
>
> 73,
> Jason Milldrum, NT7S

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Julian, G4ILO]

Arrogant? Whining? Twits? I don't see any arguments there for why it
is not legitimate to voice one's frustration over optimistic delivery
estimates and broken promises.

But thanks to your reasoned reply I have now decided to consider
cancelling my order. I don't *need* a K3. I have a perfectly good K2.

And at this point I wonder why I need a hobby pursued by people who
can think of nothing better than hurl insults at others who express
opinions they just don't agree with.

I'm out of here, too.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf


On 07/12/2007, Greg Derda <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'll finally chime in as well, and AGREE with Jason!  We "have to get
> used to it"?  I've never seen so many arrogant, whining twits in my
> entire life!!  Get a hobby!  I'm outta here as well.....
>
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[dlajr]

>  So everyone needs to hook up their Valium drip and take a deep
> breath.  Things will settle down soon.

Actually, Valium injection is not water soluble, and cannot be given via IV
drip.  It must be given via IV push!  I get this question all the time!

;-)

Dan Allen, RPh
KB4ZVM
K2 S/N 1757



_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Solosko, Robert B (Bob)]

Julian,

It's just as much of an insult to call the Elecraft crew liars and
accuse them of broken promises.

Anyone who's ever been involved in product development and ramping up
production, especially complex products where you're dependent on
suppliers to meet their schedules, know that schedules more often than
not slip because of unforeseen circumstances, and even the most
pessimistic schedules may in hindsight seem to have been overly
optimistic.

Please give the Elecraft crew the respect they deserve for designing and
getting into production a unique and outstanding product - and please
stop insulting them by calling them liars.

Bob W1SRB

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian G4ILO
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:20 AM
To: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: not about technical issues (was Shipping
StatusPage)

Arrogant? Whining? Twits? I don't see any arguments there for why it is
not legitimate to voice one's frustration over optimistic delivery
estimates and broken promises.

But thanks to your reasoned reply I have now decided to consider
cancelling my order. I don't *need* a K3. I have a perfectly good K2.

And at this point I wonder why I need a hobby pursued by people who can
think of nothing better than hurl insults at others who express opinions
they just don't agree with.

I'm out of here, too.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf


On 07/12/2007, Greg Derda <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'll finally chime in as well, and AGREE with Jason!  We "have to get
> used to it"?  I've never seen so many arrogant, whining twits in my
> entire life!!  Get a hobby!  I'm outta here as well.....
>
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[M0XDF]

I think we are all in danger of acting rashly and speaking (typing?) in
haste. I would ask everyone to hold their breath for a moment before hitting
the 'Send' key.

I would say to those who are fed up with posts about K3 deliveries to bear
with us for a while, don't go rushing off the list because of the number of
posts - it will calm down soon and you have valuable experience and
knowledge to add to the list - leaving it does no one any good.

I would say to those posting delivery mails (that includes me) to post on
the Zerobeat forum at  http://www.zerobeat.net/smf or the Yahoo reflector at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elecraft_K3
It does us no good to post here and is alienating a number of list members
and just 'winding ourselves up' more - it does no good to post on Zerobeat
either, but at least it relieves some frustration.

Some of us will have to agree to disagree. Both sides have valid points of
view, but its not doing us any good airing them right now.

This mail is well meant and not intended to offend anybody, nor to childe or
complain.

--
DonŒt complain. Nobody will understand. Or care. And certainly donŒt try
to fix the situation yourself. ItŒs dangerous. Leave it to a highly
untrained, unqualified, expendable professional.


_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

Guys,

Please, let's end this thread now. (With respect to criticisms of others
etc.) It is totally inappropriate to directly criticize anyone on this
list (except of course myself and the company. Its always OK to
criticize us. We want to hear it so we can improve our processes here :-)

73, Eric  WA6HHQ
---

Solosko, Robert B (Bob) wrote:
> Julian,
>
> It's just as much of an insult to call the Elecraft crew liars and
> ac
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Dave Yarnes wrote:

> If you think about other rigs that are out there, it does seem to
> take an inordinate amount of time to get them from prototype to
> market product.  The IC-7000, for example, was shown at Dayton nearly
> a year before it actually became available.

Yeah... And they are having problems even now. A friend of mine who bought one
a few weeks ago from HRO had it blow up on him ( literally -- it smoked
big-time) after being turned on for all of ten minutes in receive mode! (HRO
did send him a new one immediately.) As someone who has been involved directly
in design engineering and indirectly in manufacturing engineering, I can tell
you that the latter is in many ways more difficult than the former, as
illustrated by the IC-7000 anecdote above.

So let's keep in mind what the alternatives to Elecraft are like.  :-)

Bill W5WVO

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Darwin, Keith]

Chris, I guess I take issue with "lies".  I don't believe Elecraft is
deliberately misleading or misrepresenting anything to anyone.  I'll
agree that things have not gone as stated, that people have been
mislead, but I see it as Elecraft's inability to predict events rather
than Elecraft deliberately misinforming us.

While many of the predictions have been untrue, they have not IMHO been
lies.

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 -
- K3 Wave 3 -

-----Original Message-----
Lies and broken promises are fuelling discontent. People have contacted
Elecraft directly and are constantly being fed rubbish.

Honesty first, radio whenever.      Chris G3SJJ
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Alan Bloom]

On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 09:17, Bill W5WVO wrote:

> Dave Yarnes wrote:
>
> > If you think about other rigs that are out there, it does seem to
> > take an inordinate amount of time to get them from prototype to
> > market product.  The IC-7000, for example, was shown at Dayton nearly
> > a year before it actually became available.
>
> Yeah... And they are having problems even now. A friend of mine who bought one
> a few weeks ago from HRO had it blow up on him ( literally -- it smoked
> big-time) after being turned on for all of ten minutes in receive mode!

I used to be a design engineer for R. L. Drake back in the days when
they still made ham gear.  A few weeks after we started first shipments
of the new TR-7 HF transceiver we received a padded envelope from one of
our customers with a note "I think you guys may have lost this."  In the
envelope was a pair of side cutters he had found wedged between the
motherboard and the bottom cover.  :=)

Al N1AL


_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

I'd like to make a general statement about deliveries, status updates, etc.

First of all, I'm primarily focused on getting K3s out the door each day
and as a result I only read the list every second or third day, so my
replies to queries here can easily be delayed by that amount. Also, when
the email load on the list is especially heavy I go into scan mode and
do not read every mail.

Regarding shipping and status. - We are steadily ramping up our ship
rate. Its nowhere as high as I would like, but it is increasing each
week as we add staff and our subcontractors deliver assembled PC boards
at a better rate. We have all the fun issues surrounding a significant
ramp up of any new product - supplier glitches, assembly errors,
engineering changes, part tolerance variations, employee training,
exhaustion, over optimism etc. All of these contribute to the
variability in shipping estimates. Each week is a new experience.
Everything is converging in a nice manner, but in a manufacturing ramp
up you never know where your next wave of excitement will come from. :-)

Some of the confusion about status is generated as a result of
inaccurate postings from users here and elsewhere. Every time someone
says something in error about what order date we've shipped, how many we
have on backlog, etc., we get a flood of emails and phone calls to Lisa
and our sales team. When that happens it actually slows our shipping
rate significantly (since Lisa's crew generates all of the daily
shipping orders, each of which is custom for different options etc. ).
Also, with the huge level of calls they are not able to give out
accurate estimates on shipping for orders likely to go out past the next
two to three weeks.

There have been widely inaccurate estimates of how many K3s we have
sold. While it is not prudent for us to post exact numbers, for
competitive reasons, I can certainly say that we did -not- sell 700-1000
at Dayton, and that our backlog is not in the 3000+ range :-) Based on
our current backlog, as the current ramp up continues, we will be caught
up with existing orders received today by March. Increasing our daily
ship rate is my prime focus, but we will not let quality supper in a
rush to ship boxes out the door.

We are trying to be as accurate as possible with our shipping status,
that's why we have added the 'what order dates are shipping next'
section to our status page. We try to update it every 1-2 weeks as we
get a new block of K3s out the door. To be honest, that's the only
accurate statement about shipping we can make. Anything past that is an
educated guess and I can guarantee will be inaccurate. Since our best
guesses are triangulated, dissected and picked apart and second guessed
each time, its best not to go there. :-)

Lisa and her sales crew are a dedicated group who are working very, very
hard to both get new orders entered, enter the huge number of change
orders ( different / added options), answer the flood of daily calls and
emails and to drive shipping with what needs to go out daily. I'm sure
in the heat of the battle they have not been 100% accurate when trying
to estimate exactly when an order will ship for orders shipping out past
2-3 weeks. They do their best, but they are human too and when
overloaded by calls they are certain to make mistakes when estimating
when an order will ship.

Several folks have asked why the shipping dates slipped for the FM
filter, 2nd RX, and DVR.

-- The FM filter delay is a pure function of our supplier. We asked them
to correct some design issues with the filter and they took longer than
we planned to do so. Those are now supposed to be resolved and we are
now awaiting delivery.

-- The delay on the 2nd RX and DVR are engineering resource related.
Wayne and Lyle have to release the final F/W for both of both of these
and also release the final PCB for the RX. They have spent much more
time supporting the existing K3 than we expected. If anyone know how to
clone engineers - we're interested! We have added additional engineering
talent, but for these two items Wayne and Lyle are the experts.

Lastly, if you have a serious concern about our performance, our
veracity or anything else along these lines, you can always contact me
directly. The buck stops here. I can't always give everyone exactly what
they want to know etc, but I do my best. Our office number is 831-662-8345.

Now - back to work!

73, Eric   WA6HHQ




_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Chris G3SJJ]

Thank you for that honest assessment. That is just what we are looking for.

So orders placed between 1st May (the current shipment period) and Dec
4th should be shipped by late Feb 2008.  In which case that is all we
need to know.

Like I said, honesty first. K3 whenever. I will now wait patiently.

Have fun. Chris G3SJJ


Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:

> I'd like to make a general statement about deliveries, status updates,
> etc.
>
> First of all, I'm primarily focused on getting K3s out the door each
> day and as a result I only read the list every second or third day, so
> my replies to queries here can easily be delayed by that amount. Also,
> when the email load on the list is especially heavy I go into scan
> mode and do not read every mail.
>
> Regarding shipping and status. - We are steadily ramping up our ship
> rate. Its nowhere as high as I would like, but it is increasing each
> week as we add staff and our subcontractors deliver assembled PC
> boards at a better rate. We have all the fun issues surrounding a
> significant ramp up of any new product - supplier glitches, assembly
> errors, engineering changes, part tolerance variations, employee
> training, exhaustion, over optimism etc. All of these contribute to
> the variability in shipping estimates. Each week is a new experience.
> Everything is converging in a nice manner, but in a manufacturing ramp
> up you never know where your next wave of excitement will come from. :-)
>
> Some of the confusion about status is generated as a result of
> inaccurate postings from users here and elsewhere. Every time someone
> says something in error about what order date we've shipped, how many
> we have on backlog, etc., we get a flood of emails and phone calls to
> Lisa and our sales team. When that happens it actually slows our
> shipping rate significantly (since Lisa's crew generates all of the
> daily shipping orders, each of which is custom for different options
> etc. ). Also, with the huge level of calls they are not able to give
> out accurate estimates on shipping for orders likely to go out past
> the next two to three weeks.
>
> There have been widely inaccurate estimates of how many K3s we have
> sold. While it is not prudent for us to post exact numbers, for
> competitive reasons, I can certainly say that we did -not- sell
> 700-1000 at Dayton, and that our backlog is not in the 3000+ range :-)
> Based on our current backlog, as the current ramp up continues, we
> will be caught up with existing orders received today by March.
> Increasing our daily ship rate is my prime focus, but we will not let
> quality supper in a rush to ship boxes out the door.
>
> We are trying to be as accurate as possible with our shipping status,
> that's why we have added the 'what order dates are shipping next'
> section to our status page. We try to update it every 1-2 weeks as we
> get a new block of K3s out the door. To be honest, that's the only
> accurate statement about shipping we can make. Anything past that is
> an educated guess and I can guarantee will be inaccurate. Since our
> best guesses are triangulated, dissected and picked apart and second
> guessed each time, its best not to go there. :-)
>
> Lisa and her sales crew are a dedicated group who are working very,
> very hard to both get new orders entered, enter the huge number of
> change orders ( different / added options), answer the flood of daily
> calls and emails and to drive shipping with what needs to go out
> daily. I'm sure in the heat of the battle they have not been 100%
> accurate when trying to estimate exactly when an order will ship for
> orders shipping out past 2-3 weeks. They do their best, but they are
> human too and when overloaded by calls they are certain to make
> mistakes when estimating when an order will ship.
>
> Several folks have asked why the shipping dates slipped for the FM
> filter, 2nd RX, and DVR.
>
> -- The FM filter delay is a pure function of our supplier. We asked
> them to correct some design issues with the filter and they took
> longer than we planned to do so. Those are now supposed to be resolved
> and we are now awaiting delivery.
>
> -- The delay on the 2nd RX and DVR are engineering resource related.
> Wayne and Lyle have to release the final F/W for both of both of these
> and also release the final PCB for the RX. They have spent much more
> time supporting the existing K3 than we expected. If anyone know how
> to clone engineers - we're interested! We have added additional
> engineering talent, but for these two items Wayne and Lyle are the
> experts.
>
> Lastly, if you have a serious concern about our performance, our
> veracity or anything else along these lines, you can always contact me
> directly. The buck stops here. I can't always give everyone exactly
> what they want to know etc, but I do my best. Our office number is
> 831-662-8345.
>
> Now - back to work!
>
> 73, Eric   WA6HHQ

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[srife]

        No Jim, it used to be a unique reflector. Now it's just a sounding
board for cry babies that can't have their toys when they want them.


Stan Rife
W5EWA
Houston, TX
K2 S/N 4216


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 6:13 AM
To: Vic K2VCO; Dave Yarnes
Cc: elecraft
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Shipping Status Page


This is unique Reflector..........

I counted up all of the many messages I have received, and it seems that the
majority of the messages received on this reflector are on the subject of
SHIPPING, and not about the merits or technical issues of the Elecraft
products themselves.........



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Vic K2VCO
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:50 PM
To: Dave Yarnes
Cc: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Shipping Status Page

Dave Yarnes wrote:

> And we
> can't really do anything about it, which only adds to the frustration.

Keep in mind that the only real question is "will I get my K3 before
Christmas, in January, or February?" This is not going to matter in the long
run unless you are significantly older than even I am.

I can see people saying "he should talk, he's a beta tester and has had his
K3 for months". True, but I received my beta test version several months
after I originally expected it!

Anyway, as a beta tester -- although I don't work for Elecraft and don't
know all of the nitty gritty about suppliers, etc. -- I am somewhat closer
to what is going on at Elecraft than others. And I can say that I see
problems being solved, big improvements made, and processes smoothed out  as
the experiences of the early users are factored in.

The fact is that unless a huge meteorite lands in Santa Cruz county,
everyone is going to get their K3s, and they are going to be good radios.

A watched pot never boils, so watch something else for a while and you will
be pleasantly surprised when the box arrives.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
K3 no. 00007
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[srife]

        Well, they have 3400 dollars of my money, so what. Why don't you
people act like responsible adults and leave Elecraft to their work.

        The only lies that have circulated are by those saying they have
been lied to. Elecraft did'nt lie to anyone. A lie is something you tell if
you intentionally intend to deceive someone. Do you people think Elecraft
intended to deceive you? You people are howling like a bunch of 3rd graders
that can't have their toy when they want it.

        You people must have been hired by Yaesu to try and create some bad
publicity for Elecraft.  
 

Stan Rife
W5EWA
Houston, TX
K2 S/N 4216


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of G3SJJ
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 8:47 AM
Cc: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: not about technical issues (was Shipping
StatusPage)


Don, the long wait is not a problem, even though they have had $1372 of
my money for 7 months and not even a personal thank you or apology.

*The real problem is the constant lies and broken promises coming out of
Aptos, together with the lack of explanation, in fact, virtual silence*.

Those of us who placed early orders did so on the basis of the trust
built up between Elecraft and its customer base.

That trust has been severly damaged, not by the delays but by the
breakdown of communication.

Many of us had planned various activities involving our K3s. For me
initially it was a small Low Power Field Day in July, then it was IARU
Region SSB Field Day in September, then it was an SO2R effort in RSGB
21/28MHz Contest in October, then it was lending it to our G5W effort in
CQWW, and this weekend it was supposed to be a dual mode, multi op
effort in ARRL 10m contest. Each event was planned on the basis of what
proved to be mis-information from Aptos. Mid January sees an RSGB
contest that I have excelled in over the years. As early as May 14 this
year, when I placed my order for a K3/100 plus sub receiver, I began
planning for the 2008 event. Even at this this stage I cannot be sure of
having my K3, and only in the past week have I had to accept I won't
have the sub-rx. The way I found out was an un-announced change on the
shipping date.

Again going on the scant information, I have delayed arranging a
pre-Christmas trip out of the country to be around if or when my K3 is
delivered. I am still not sure whether it will be shipped. One person
was recently told that his order placed 6 July would be delivered by the
end of this year!! Numerous people have been told two weeks for several
times. The way I view it at the moment is that shipping came to a halt a
week ago, yet not a word.

This is not the efficient, honest and friendly service we have become to
expect from Elecraft. They have produced a really fantastic product and
our hearts go out to the team struggling to meet the rightful demand,
but lies and unbroken promises are not helping them or us.

Many years ago whilst in sales and marketing of thick film hybrid
modules into the defence industry I received a telephone call late one
evening from the manufacturing director of a very major defence
contractor. His modules were 3 weeks late and no warning or expalanation
had been given. If we had told him he could have re-scheduled. I was
given huge roasting and needless to say didn't sleep much that night. I
did however keep my customers well informed after that.

Some honest and realistic information would have prevented this email
and most of the preceeding ones


Chris G3SJJ





Don Wilhelm wrote:

> By my count, it does look like there are now at least 30 K3s being
> shipped per week over the past 2 week period, judging from the serial
> numbers that have been posted on the wiki.
>
> That means that Don Rasmussen's projections are overly pessimistic.
> By my estimate (again judging only from the serial numbers accounted
> for), serial number 225 should ship well before Christmas, and they
> should have shipped SN 250 before the first of the year.  I don't know
> how many are in the 1st batch, but most have figured it is less than 250.
>
> The folks at Aptos are working hard to hone their production
> capabilities and get these first orders shipped.  It has been a long
> period of overtime for all of them.  I will get my K3 in due time I am
> certain, and I am certainly not going to bug them about it - whining
> about it will not hurry the process and may even slow it down.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Dave Yarnes wrote:
>> I think it's just that a few folks need to vent a little after the
>> long wait.  But if you look at the "wiki" list of K3's received,
>> output is picking up nicely.  I think over 50 K3's are going out now
>> each week--maybe more.  So everyone needs to hook up their Valium
>> drip and take a deep breath.  Things will settle down soon.
>>
>> Dave W7AQK

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[srife]

        It's just been confirmed. G4ILO was hired by Yaesu and Icom to
create bad publicity for Elecraft. The big 3 just can't fade the heat.

Stan Rife
W5EWA
Houston, TX
K2 S/N 4216


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian G4ILO
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 9:17 AM
To: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: not about technical issues (was Shipping
StatusPage)


On 07/12/2007, R. Kevin Stover <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Absolutely!
>
> The whining level around here is starting to get a little
> embarrassing. Some on the reflector sound like a bunch of third grade
> girls who've just found out recess is canceled.
>
> I'm still trying to figure out why people who paid VOLUNTARY deposits
> or were in "the first run", or second run, didn't pay deposits, etc,
> etc, etc, Ad nauseam, are entitled to a unit by unit run down of
> radios going out the door.
>
> I've also noticed that the most vocal production and inventory
> "specialists" aren't in any hurry to cancel their orders. What's the
> word I'm looking for...........? Never mind it would probably get me
> booted off the list.
>
> A sign of the times we live in I suppose.
>

The intemperate attitude of some people around here is starting to get a bit
irritating.

Believe me, there are a lot more people who are unhappy about being kept
waiting than you would know from this reflector. And some of the language
used in expressing this dissatisfaction privately is sometimes a lot more
blunt than has been used here, too. So let's have less of the insults,
please.

I'm sure Elecraft *is* doing the best it can to fulfil the outstanding
orders. Unfortunately the best it can do seems to be falling a little short
of what was promised. Two estimates of when my own order would ship have
come and gone and now it looks like I'll have to ask for it to be postponed
until the new year so that I will be here to receive it. And you wonder why
*I* am frustrated?

People are not cancelling their orders because they still want this radio,
the reports of those lucky few who have received them are good, and because
having waited this long it would be stupid to bail out now when there
appears to be a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. Even though the
glimmer seems to be getting closer with appalling slowness.

As Dave W7AQK said, venting is one way of relieving the frustration of
waiting. It's human nature. These shipping discussions are only going to be
replaced by technical ones when more people have actual K3s to discuss and
fewer people are kicking their heels waiting for them. You'll just have to
get used to it.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf

> - --
> R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFHWViV11jxjloa2wsRAtvbAJ49W7SrxPLxiBGeWagLPvY1BhVtwQCfW7Sg
> GE+5KMKdf/szsyF+TfR8cvY=
> =XiaF
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):  
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[srife]

        Not me Greg. I'm finally getting involved in this discussion and I
am going to hang around and make life miserable for these miserable little
boys who can't have their toys.

        At least until Eric un-subscribes me.

Stan Rife
W5EWA
Houston, TX
K2 S/N 4216


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Greg Derda
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 9:58 AM
To: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: not about technical issues (was Shipping
StatusPage)


I'll finally chime in as well, and AGREE with Jason!  We "have to get
used to it"?  I've never seen so many arrogant, whining twits in my
entire life!!  Get a hobby!  I'm outta here as well.....

Greg
ki4mmm

On Dec 7, 2007, at 10:47 AM, Jason Milldrum wrote:

> On Dec 7, 2007 7:17 AM, Julian G4ILO <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You'll just have to get used to it.
>
> No, I don't
>
> I have a great deal of respect for people like you who contribute to
> ham radio in a significant and unselfish way. However, I've become
> completely exhausted of this list turning into the "All K3 Bitchfest,
> All Of The Time". I understand that some complaining is normal and
> justified, but if you truly have so much angst about your declining
> perception of the Elecraft mojo, then perhaps it's time to have a chat
> with Elecraft directly or cancel your order. The level of whining on
> the list has ruined it for me. I understand you all have every right
> to be mad...and I might be too if I were in your shoes. However, I
> feel that this topic has been allowed to dominate the list to the
> detriment of everyone else.
>
> So, no, I don't have to get used to it. I'm just going to unsubscribe
> and wash my hands of this whole mess. I'll look for technical
> discussion and advice elsewhere.
>
> 73,
> Jason Milldrum, NT7S _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[srife]

        Yeah, Chris, it's bitching...when you do it day after day after week
after week. That's all we hear on the list any more is you and people like
you complaining about not having your K3 when you think you should have it.


Stan Rife
W5EWA
Houston, TX
K2 S/N 4216


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of G3SJJ
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:16 AM
Cc: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: not about technical issues (was Shipping
StatusPage)


Jason, with respect, this is not bitching.

All people are asking for is honest and realistic communication from
Elecraft.

Lies and broken promises are fuelling discontent. People have contacted
Elecraft directly and are constantly being fed rubbish.

This is yet another email which needn't have been sent if we were kept
properly informed.

Honesty first, radio whenever.      Chris G3SJJ




Jason Milldrum wrote:

> However, I've become
> completely exhausted of this list turning into the "All K3 Bitchfest,
> All Of The Time". I understand that some complaining is normal and
> justified, but if you truly have so much angst about your declining
> perception of the Elecraft mojo, then perhaps it's time to have a chat
> with Elecraft directly or cancel your order. The level of whining on
> the list has ruined it for me. I understand you all have every right
> to be mad...and I might be too if I were in your shoes. However, I
> feel that this topic has been allowed to dominate the list to the
> detriment of everyone else.
>
> So, no, I don't have to get used to it. I'm just going to unsubscribe
> and wash my hands of this whole mess. I'll look for technical
> discussion and advice elsewhere.
>
> 73,
> Jason Milldrum, NT7S

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Chris G3SJJ]

Stan, you and others are missing the point. The whole problem was not,
and still is not, "when we want them."

Eric has agreed that information coming out of Aptos has not been accurate.

We now understand that orders placed May 1 to Dec 4 should be available
by end of Feb.

Fine, no problem. That is all we needed to know.

If you are told two weeks, then two weeks, the two weeks and still
nothing, or if you are told end of December, then someone with an
earlier order told a later shipment date, it is bound to create
confusions and anger as Eric has agreed.

Yes I want mine now, who wouldn't, but I at last have an honest
assessment, ie I would hope to have shipment sometime during the next 13
weeks, unless advised further. That's OK by me, you also?

Chris G3SJJ



Stan Rife wrote:
> No Jim, it used to be a unique reflector. Now it's just a sounding
> board for cry babies that can't have their toys when they want them.
>
>
> Stan Rife
> W5EWA
> Houston, TX
> K2 S/N 4216
>  
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[srife]

        Arrogant, whining twits...that just hit the nail squarely on the
head. Good rid dents Julian. Maybe we can get some peace and quiet on the
list now.


Stan Rife
W5EWA
Houston, TX
K2 S/N 4216


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian G4ILO
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:20 AM
To: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: not about technical issues (was Shipping
StatusPage)


Arrogant? Whining? Twits? I don't see any arguments there for why it is not
legitimate to voice one's frustration over optimistic delivery estimates and
broken promises.

But thanks to your reasoned reply I have now decided to consider cancelling
my order. I don't *need* a K3. I have a perfectly good K2.

And at this point I wonder why I need a hobby pursued by people who can
think of nothing better than hurl insults at others who express opinions
they just don't agree with.

I'm out of here, too.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf


On 07/12/2007, Greg Derda <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'll finally chime in as well, and AGREE with Jason!  We "have to get
> used to it"?  I've never seen so many arrogant, whining twits in my
> entire life!!  Get a hobby!  I'm outta here as well.....
>
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com