Small capacitor leads>>>>Bend or not bend??
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Small capacitor leads>>>>Bend or not bend??
 
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I think this has come up before, but I can't find an answer in the archives. KSB2 manual, page 6 says: "The leads on small capacitors do not need to be straightened, but keep their mounted height at about 1/8" (3mm) or less." I find that if I don"t straighten them, they stick up about 3/16" or more. If I straighten them, I'm afraid it will mess them up. What to do??
Help would be appreciated , George, N4YM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Small capacitor leads>>>>Bend or not bend??
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George,
The 1/8 inch refers to the lead length above the board, not the overall height of the capacitors. A small bit of pressure will put them at less than 1/8 inch of lead sticking above the board. 73, Don W3FPR > -----Original Message----- > > I think this has come up before, but I can't find an answer in > the archives. KSB2 manual, page 6 says: "The leads on small > capacitors do not need to be straightened, but keep their mounted > height at about 1/8" (3mm) or less." I find that if I don"t > straighten them, they stick up about 3/16" or more. If I > straighten them, I'm afraid it will mess them up. What to do?? > > Help would be appreciated > , George, N4YM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Small capacitor leads>>>>Bend or not bend??
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In reply to this post by George-122
The issue with those leads is that with a little too much pressure pulling
on one and you can pull it off! Those caps are actually chip type capacitors, just like the surface mount types, with leads attached to the terminals then the whole thing is dipped in epoxy. Those types of capacitors are not mechanically strong, since they are normally mounted right on a PCB. The epoxy provides the mechanical strength needed to keep from pulling the capacitor apart by handling the leads. If you form the leads carefully without doing significant damage to the epoxy coating, you'll be fine. The thing NOT to do is to tug on one lead while holding the body of the cap or the other lead. When I need to reform the leads, I start by flattening out the little bend where the lead exits the epoxy by squeezing it in the flat part of my needle nose pliers, then gently bending the lead as needed to fit the solder pads. If significant bending is needed, I hold the lead where it exits the epoxy with the thin tip of my needle noise pliers then bend the lead with my finger or another pair of pliers. That way, all the strain is on the lead itself, with no strain placed on the epoxy body. Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- I think this has come up before, but I can't find an answer in the archives. KSB2 manual, page 6 says: "The leads on small capacitors do not need to be straightened, but keep their mounted height at about 1/8" (3mm) or less." I find that if I don"t straighten them, they stick up about 3/16" or more. If I straighten them, I'm afraid it will mess them up. What to do?? Help would be appreciated , George, N4YM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-3
Hi Don, Thanks for your advice in the past. I used K2 in the CQ WW SSb contest. When I engaged the KDSP2, I found that there was too much artifact under SSB mode. I would be grateful if you could advise how I can adjust the parameters to lessen the artifact. I notice there are two parameter namely Beta and Decay time. Which one should I adjust? Thanks a million, Johnny Siu VR2XMC _________________________________________________________________ 享用世界上最大的电子邮件系统― MSN Hotmail。 http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Johnny,
I can't give you a good answer because I don't use the KDSP2 myself. Perhaps someone else can give you some pointers. 73, Don W3FPR > -----Original Message----- > > Thanks for your advice in the past. I used K2 in the CQ WW SSb contest. > When I engaged the KDSP2, I found that there was too much artifact under > SSB mode. I would be grateful if you could advise how I can adjust the > parameters to lessen the artifact. I notice there are two > parameter namely > Beta and Decay time. Which one should I adjust? > > Thanks a million, > > > Johnny Siu VR2XMC > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Johnny,
I suggest that you search the archive for threads on this subject. The KDSP2 seems to suffer from more aggressive artifacts on SSB than other DSP filters such as the BHI. Some people say they have cracked it, others (like me) have given up.... 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:07:38 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Johnny, > > I can't give you a good answer because I don't use the KDSP2 myself. > Perhaps someone else can give you some pointers. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > >> -----Original Message----- >> >> Thanks for your advice in the past. I used K2 in the CQ WW SSb contest. >> When I engaged the KDSP2, I found that there was too much artifact under >> SSB mode. I would be grateful if you could advise how I can adjust the >> parameters to lessen the artifact. I notice there are two >> parameter namely >> Beta and Decay time. Which one should I adjust? >> >> Thanks a million, >> >> >> Johnny Siu VR2XMC >> > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Johnny,
Here are the KDSP2 settings I am using. I'm sure they are not optimum but I am happy with the performance I get. There is quite a bit of QRM here on 80m SSB and the KDSP2 suppresses most of it so the voice is readable. nr 94 10 nt 40 07 Sn G 5.0 SF G 7.0 I don't have 80m transmit capability but I like to listen sometimes to the Canadian traffic nets. I use a little indoor vertical from MFJ and they are very strong signals here in northern Washington. I usually have the KDSP2 agressiveness set at nr2 or nr3 and the voice is usually intelligible. Sometimes the QRM is very low and I don't turn on the DSP. I suspect there are no really perfect settings since each signal being received has its own characteristics. 73, Harvey KN6VP K2 s/n 5022,5404 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart Baker" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]>; "Siu Johnny" <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:30 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KDSP2 - artifact Johnny, I suggest that you search the archive for threads on this subject. The KDSP2 seems to suffer from more aggressive artifacts on SSB than other DSP filters such as the BHI. Some people say they have cracked it, others (like me) have given up.... 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:07:38 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Johnny, > > I can't give you a good answer because I don't use the KDSP2 myself. > Perhaps someone else can give you some pointers. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > >> -----Original Message----- >> >> Thanks for your advice in the past. I used K2 in the CQ WW SSb contest. >> When I engaged the KDSP2, I found that there was too much artifact under >> SSB mode. I would be grateful if you could advise how I can adjust the >> parameters to lessen the artifact. I notice there are two >> parameter namely >> Beta and Decay time. Which one should I adjust? >> >> Thanks a million, >> >> >> Johnny Siu VR2XMC >> > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.18/506 - Release Date: 10/30/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.18/506 - Release Date: 10/30/2006 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by johnny-52
Johny,
My 0.02. Underneath I review my K2 DSP SSB speech NR experiences and not the CW ones ( CW NR works much better ). I also encountered considerable K2 DSP drawback problems ( I guess everyone does.. ). ( I know about the free lunch, but even then.. ). I have been tweaking the beta and decay for hours but whatever I tweaked, problems still bother the most where you need the NR most, i.e. with weak signals. Actually, I encountered three kinds of K2 DSP drawbacks : 1. bothering bath tub song sound 2. seriously decreased intelligibility 3. audio artifacts ( distorted audio and splatter like crack sounds etc. ) The audio sample of the K2 SSB speech NR on Elecrafts website ( which seduced me to buy the K2 DSP after having asked a question on this to the Elecraft people, which question was not answered properly ) is kinda misleading ( sorry Wayne ) in that way that it obviously offers a pretty strong signal where the NR indeed does not suffer from decreased intelligibility. Not quite fair of the Elecraft people, since, in contrary, the NR is needed most where the sigs are weakest. I would advocate that the Elecraft people would also offer on their website an audio sample of a weak signal, where the potential DSP buyer can get some idea how the intelligibility suffers by the NR as the sigs get weaker. DSP NR of ( other :-) commercial tranceivers suffers from the very same ( part of the NR concept ) but I feel it wouldn't be a shame for a high quality concept like our K2 to show these K2 DSP SSB NR limitations to a potential buyer before he buys. Some would then decide not to buy this DSP NR. BTW, the real audio artifacts ( not the bath tub sounds and not the decreased intelligibility, but the real audio distortion ) are not really kinda problem ( at least for me ) since they could be easily avoided by decreasing the DSP gain setting ( drawback remains that e.g. changing filter settings, changing bands et al requires changing of the gain setting every time as well ). The bath tub sounds, critisized repeatedly on this list, are no real problem for me. My ears/brain quickly adapt to this and though not pleasant indeed this does not decrease intelligibility for me. Funny to let my inmates think I am talking with little green men from Mars. On the other hand, concluding and to be honest, I must frankly state that even with weak signals ( be it not the really weakest ones ) the DSP does improve intelligibility somewhat if ( and only if for me ) the IF filter is ( default ) widest and the audio filter is ( default ) 2 at maximum or even better at 1. Disadvantage is that in contest ( as I noticed in the very very crowded cq www dx contest last weekend ) that selectivity lacks heavily then and neighbour qrm is hardly endurable. That's why ( in spite of some different opinions on list some weeks ago in the IF shift discussions ) I still do appreciate so much my IF shift in my FT-100 radios ( yes, I do know, please no extra conversion in the K2... ). And, end of all, having said my griefs on the K2 SSB DSP, with some tweaking and some good will, the K2 DSP is still more useable for me than I heard on some commercial radio DSP's. Do I regret having bought the DSP ? No, but with some thoughts as exposed above. Peter, PE1E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Siu Johnny" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 5:27 AM Subject: [Elecraft] KDSP2 - artifact > > Hi Don, > > Thanks for your advice in the past. I used K2 in the CQ WW SSb contest. > When I engaged the KDSP2, I found that there was too much artifact under > SSB mode. I would be grateful if you could advise how I can adjust the > parameters to lessen the artifact. I notice there are two parameter namely > Beta and Decay time. Which one should I adjust? > > Thanks a million, > > > Johnny Siu VR2XMC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by johnny-52
One other point to sanity check -- have you put the DSP in "bypass" and
confirmed that is the cause? What I thought might be DSP artifacts turned out to be issues with RFC15 (see my earlier thread about tuning warbles) Bill W1PA _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by PE1E
Hi Peter,
Thanks to all the replies including yours. I experienced exactly the same in the recent CQww SSb contest. I really want to know how I should adjust the beta and decay time to minimise the artifact. I don't mind having much less aggressiveness in NR during SSB operation. In some extreme situation during the contest, I simply turned off the KDSP2 Could any of you in the list point me to the right direction? TNX & 73 Johnny Siu VR2XMC From: "PE1E" <[hidden email]> To: "Siu Johnny" <[hidden email]>,<[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KDSP2 - artifact Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:52:24 +0100 Johny, My 0.02. Underneath I review my K2 DSP SSB speech NR experiences and not the CW ones ( CW NR works much better ). I also encountered considerable K2 DSP drawback problems ( I guess everyone does.. ). ( I know about the free lunch, but even then.. ). I have been tweaking the beta and decay for hours but whatever I tweaked, problems still bother the most where you need the NR most, i.e. with weak signals. Actually, I encountered three kinds of K2 DSP drawbacks : 1. bothering bath tub song sound 2. seriously decreased intelligibility 3. audio artifacts ( distorted audio and splatter like crack sounds etc. ) The audio sample of the K2 SSB speech NR on Elecrafts website ( which seduced me to buy the K2 DSP after having asked a question on this to the Elecraft people, which question was not answered properly ) is kinda misleading ( sorry Wayne ) in that way that it obviously offers a pretty strong signal where the NR indeed does not suffer from decreased intelligibility. Not quite fair of the Elecraft people, since, in contrary, the NR is needed most where the sigs are weakest. I would advocate that the Elecraft people would also offer on their website an audio sample of a weak signal, where the potential DSP buyer can get some idea how the intelligibility suffers by the NR as the sigs get weaker. DSP NR of ( other :-) commercial tranceivers suffers from the very same ( part of the NR concept ) but I feel it wouldn't be a shame for a high quality concept like our K2 to show these K2 DSP SSB NR limitations to a potential buyer before he buys. Some would then decide not to buy this DSP NR. BTW, the real audio artifacts ( not the bath tub sounds and not the decreased intelligibility, but the real audio distortion ) are not really kinda problem ( at least for me ) since they could be easily avoided by decreasing the DSP gain setting ( drawback remains that e.g. changing filter settings, changing bands et al requires changing of the gain setting every time as well ). The bath tub sounds, critisized repeatedly on this list, are no real problem for me. My ears/brain quickly adapt to this and though not pleasant indeed this does not decrease intelligibility for me. Funny to let my inmates think I am talking with little green men from Mars. On the other hand, concluding and to be honest, I must frankly state that even with weak signals ( be it not the really weakest ones ) the DSP does improve intelligibility somewhat if ( and only if for me ) the IF filter is ( default ) widest and the audio filter is ( default ) 2 at maximum or even better at 1. Disadvantage is that in contest ( as I noticed in the very very crowded cq www dx contest last weekend ) that selectivity lacks heavily then and neighbour qrm is hardly endurable. That's why ( in spite of some different opinions on list some weeks ago in the IF shift discussions ) I still do appreciate so much my IF shift in my FT-100 radios ( yes, I do know, please no extra conversion in the K2... ). And, end of all, having said my griefs on the K2 SSB DSP, with some tweaking and some good will, the K2 DSP is still more useable for me than I heard on some commercial radio DSP's. Do I regret having bought the DSP ? No, but with some thoughts as exposed above. Peter, PE1E _________________________________________________________________ 与联机的朋友进行交流，请使用 Live Messenger; http://get.live.com/messenger/overview _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Hello Johnny!
> I experienced exactly the same in the recent CQww SSb contest. I really > want to know how I should adjust the beta and decay time to minimise the > artifact. I don't mind having much less aggressiveness in NR during SSB > operation. > > In some extreme situation during the contest, I simply turned off the KDSP2 > > Could any of you in the list point me to the right direction? I suggest you tune in a typical signal and change Beta from 99 to 00 and back again. This will give you a good idea of what Beta does. Then do the same for Decay, changing between 99 and 00. Please also read the Design Notes article about the KDSP2 < http://www.elecraft.com/KDSP2/kdsp2design.pdf >. It explains the techniques used and the limitations of the DSP noise reduction system. There is not "best" setting of the noise reduction system. The defaults are a reasonable compromise based on input from the field test team. Hearing and sound preferences are different each individual. What is acceptable to me may be very annoying to you, and vice versa. As signals get weak, they become more like noise and are harder for the DSP to separate, just like it is harder for you to separate. Noise reduction will have the best chance to work if the signals are moderate and the bandwidth is wide. Weak CW signals will come through the noise reduction system much better than weak voice signals. I believe that within its limitations, the DSP system does a very good job. But it cannot do miracles :-) So, please experiment with the settings, and understand the limitations of the system. 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> I suggest you tune in a typical signal and change Beta from 99 to 00 and
> back again. This will give you a good idea of what Beta does. Then do > the same for Decay, changing between 99 and 00. Note that if Beta or Decay is at 99, one more "increase" will wrap it around to 00. Likewise, a reading of 00 can be changed to 99 by a one step "decrease". This makes it easy to hear the effect of the change without pressing buttons a great many times! 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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