So, anyone going to get more CW filtering?

[Darwin, Keith]

There was some big DX contest this weekend.  I played in it for about 30 minutes with my K3 and my bugs.  Fun.  By the end of my time on the air, my "small want" for a 200 Hz filter had been upgraded to "the next thing I buy".

 

You too?

 

- Keith N1AS -

- K3 711 -

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[Dave Hachadorian]

Last week I sold my 500 Hz filter, and ordered a 250 from
Elecraft. On Friday night, the new filter hadn't arrived
yet, so I operated in the CW DX Contest with only the 2.7K
filter. It worked great! I couldn't see any difference
between the 2.7K and the old 500. The skirts of the DSP (set
at 300 BW) dominate over the filter skirts, and I never had
one case of desensing or overload. On Saturday afternoon,
the mailman delivered the new 250, and I installed it
immediately and operated the rest of the contest with it.
Once again, I couldn't see any difference. The radio sounded
exactly like it did with the 2.7K and the 500.

If you frequently feel the need to crank your DSP width way
down below 300 Hz, you may benefit from the 200 filter, but
I don't do that and don't plan to buy the narrow filter.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ



----- Original Message -----
From: "Darwin, Keith" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:54 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] So, anyone going to get more CW
filtering?


There was some big DX contest this weekend.  I played in it
for about 30
minutes with my K3 and my bugs.  Fun.  By the end of my time
on the air,
my "small want" for a 200 Hz filter had been upgraded to
"the next thing
I buy".

You too?

- Keith N1AS -
- K3 711 -



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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[K1LI]

I echo Dave's remarks, though I have the 8-pole 400Hz filter.

Being in VT made me the focus of several "spot pileups," but I
experienced none of the "desense" issues that someone reported on the
reflector. There were numerous "wide" stations, which caused me to
tailor the RX EQ settings in an effort to further reduce the
audibility of their key clicks.

All in all I can say that the K3 (built in January) performed
flawlessly. The only item on my wish list is an outboard tuning device
to sit on the desk to the left of the keyboard (like my former Omni
VII). 48 hours is a long time to reach up to the rig (on a shelf at
eye level above the laptop screen) and the keyboard "up/down arrow"
facility isn't flexible enough (station spacing on the band is fairly
even, so you want to "zip" up the the next station and then "slowly"
tune it in). I can see that I'm going to wear out the paint above the
bezel where the fingers of my right hand rest while my thumb rotates
the dial.

Brian K1LI
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[Darwin, Keith]

Interesting.  I had the opposite experience.

I was on 40 meters yesterday afternoon for about 30 minutes.  Signals
were all pretty strong as Europe is just across the pond from my QTH.  I
did a lot of listening, comparing 1.1 KHz with 1.0 KHz and 550 Hz with
500 Hz.  The difference of course, is that my 1 KHz and 500 Hz filters
kick in.  What I heard was a noticeable reduction in thumps, pops and
AGC desensing as I stepped across the filter engagement boundary.  There
were a number of situations when I was at 550 Hz and could hear the
other guy's signal being pumped up and down as my AGC was affected by
someone 400 Hz away.  I step down to 500 Hz, and the other guy's signal
suddenly becomes smooth and consistent - no more AGC pumping.

- Keith N1AS -
- K3 711 -

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Hachadorian
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:52 AM
To: Elecraft reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] So, anyone going to get more CW filtering?

Last week I sold my 500 Hz filter, and ordered a 250 from Elecraft. On
Friday night, the new filter hadn't arrived yet, so I operated in the CW
DX Contest with only the 2.7K filter. It worked great! I couldn't see
any difference between the 2.7K and the old 500. The skirts of the DSP
(set at 300 BW) dominate over the filter skirts, and I never had one
case of desensing or overload. On Saturday afternoon, the mailman
delivered the new 250, and I installed it immediately and operated the
rest of the contest with it.
Once again, I couldn't see any difference. The radio sounded exactly
like it did with the 2.7K and the 500.

If you frequently feel the need to crank your DSP width way down below
300 Hz, you may benefit from the 200 filter, but I don't do that and
don't plan to buy the narrow filter.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

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[Dave Hachadorian]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darwin, Keith" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] So, anyone going to get more CW
filtering?

> Interesting.  I had the opposite experience.
>
> I was on 40 meters yesterday afternoon for about 30
> minutes.  Signals
> were all pretty strong as Europe is just across the pond
> from my QTH.  I
> did a lot of listening, comparing 1.1 KHz with 1.0 KHz and
> 550 Hz with
> 500 Hz.  The difference of course, is that my 1 KHz and
> 500 Hz filters
> kick in.  What I heard was a noticeable reduction in
> thumps, pops and
> AGC desensing as I stepped across the filter engagement
> boundary.  There
> were a number of situations when I was at 550 Hz and could
> hear the
> other guy's signal being pumped up and down as my AGC was
> affected by
> someone 400 Hz away.  I step down to 500 Hz, and the other
> guy's signal
> suddenly becomes smooth and consistent - no more AGC
> pumping.
>
> - Keith N1AS -

-----------------

I operate cw with agc off, and absolute minimum rf gain.
Preamp is disabled and attenuator is on whenever possible.
That probably explains the difference.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

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[Julian, G4ILO]

Brian Machesney wrote

The only item on my wish list is an outboard tuning device
to sit on the desk to the left of the keyboard (like my former Omni
VII). 48 hours is a long time to reach up to the rig (on a shelf at
eye level above the laptop screen) and the keyboard "up/down arrow"
facility isn't flexible enough (station spacing on the band is fairly
even, so you want to "zip" up the the next station and then "slowly"
tune it in). I can see that I'm going to wear out the paint above the
bezel where the fingers of my right hand rest while my thumb rotates
the dial.

I presume you're using some computer software to give you the "up/down arrow" facility. In which case what you want is a Griffin PowerMate. It's basically a knob attached to a USB cable. The supplied drivers allow you to program different keystrokes for whether you turn the knob clockwise or anticlockwise, so you can use it with pretty much any program.

[Darwin, Keith]

Ah, yes, Dave, that would make a difference.  Enough of a difference
that you and I are *almost* running different rigs :-)

With AGC off, and AF gain up, I assume you ride the RF gain in response
to RX signal strength.  Cut RF gain for a strong one and boost it a bit
for a weak signal, right?

If you have RF gain boosted a bit for a weak signal, how do you control
the strong ones that suddenly appear in the passband?

- Keith N1AS -
- K3 711 -

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Hachadorian
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 11:30 AM
To: Elecraft reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] So, anyone going to get more CW filtering?


I operate cw with agc off, and absolute minimum rf gain.
Preamp is disabled and attenuator is on whenever possible.
That probably explains the difference.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ
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[Greg - AB7R]

This keyboard works GREAT for such things..and has additional keys  you can program.

www.bella-usa.com



-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065


On Mon Feb 23  8:38 , "Julian, G4ILO"  sent:

>
>
>
>Brian Machesney wrote:
>>
>> The only item on my wish list is an outboard tuning device
>> to sit on the desk to the left of the keyboard (like my former Omni
>> VII). 48 hours is a long time to reach up to the rig (on a shelf at
>> eye level above the laptop screen) and the keyboard "up/down arrow"
>> facility isn't flexible enough (station spacing on the band is fairly
>> even, so you want to "zip" up the the next station and then "slowly"
>> tune it in). I can see that I'm going to wear out the paint above the
>> bezel where the fingers of my right hand rest while my thumb rotates
>> the dial.
>>
>
>I presume you're using some computer software to give you the "up/down
>arrow" facility. In which case what you want is a Griffin PowerMate. It's
>basically a knob attached to a USB cable. The supplied drivers allow you to
>program different keystrokes for whether you turn the knob clockwise or
>anticlockwise, so you can use it with pretty much any program.
>
>-----
>Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
>http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.g4ilo.com/blog.html G4ILO's
>Blog    http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3
>--
>View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/So%2C-anyone-going-to-get-more-

CW-filtering--tp2371938p2372963.html

>Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
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[w0mu]

I also ran across a stand alone shuttle jog device from
www.contourdesign.com .  I will check out that keyboard.  It looks pretty
handy!


"A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may
never get over." Ben Franklin
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Greg - AB7R
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:57 AM
To: [hidden email]; '[hidden email]; G4ILO'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] So, anyone going to get more CW filtering?

This keyboard works GREAT for such things..and has additional keys  you can
program.

www.bella-usa.com



-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065


On Mon Feb 23  8:38 , "Julian, G4ILO"  sent:

>
>
>
>Brian Machesney wrote:
>>
>> The only item on my wish list is an outboard tuning device to sit on
>> the desk to the left of the keyboard (like my former Omni VII). 48
>> hours is a long time to reach up to the rig (on a shelf at eye level
>> above the laptop screen) and the keyboard "up/down arrow"
>> facility isn't flexible enough (station spacing on the band is fairly
>> even, so you want to "zip" up the the next station and then "slowly"
>> tune it in). I can see that I'm going to wear out the paint above the
>> bezel where the fingers of my right hand rest while my thumb rotates
>> the dial.
>>
>
>I presume you're using some computer software to give you the "up/down
>arrow" facility. In which case what you want is a Griffin PowerMate.
>It's basically a knob attached to a USB cable. The supplied drivers
>allow you to program different keystrokes for whether you turn the knob
>clockwise or anticlockwise, so you can use it with pretty much any program.
>
>-----
>Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
>http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.g4ilo.com/blog.html

G4ILO's
>Blog    http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://n2.nabble.com/So%2C-anyone-going-to-get-more-
CW-filtering--tp2371938p2372963.html

>Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[KK7P]

> I also ran across a stand alone shuttle jog device from
> www.contourdesign.com...

And then of course there're the just-discontinued Logitech NuLOOQ device
and the 3DConnexion SpaceNavigator Personal Edition...

73,

Lyle KK7P (who has the NuLOOQ, Contour Designs widget, and the PowerMate
- and generally uses none of them, preferring the nice knobs and smooth
encoders on the front of his K3 :-)
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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

The problem with any of the shuttle knobs or keyboards with
integral shuttle control is the need for software support.  
Most of these devices operate by emulating a mouse wheel (the
scroll wheel) and it is not easy to use the external "knob"
to tune while reading e-mail or surfing the web.  

It would be handy if logging/control programs (e.g., CI-V
Commander from DXLab Suite) could "capture" a specific device
like the Griffin Power Mate or Contour Shuttle Express/Shuttle
Pro for exclusive use and operate in the background.  The
shuttle knobs are not so much a problem with contest software
like N1MM Logger since that's not likely to be used in the
background ... but the same considerations would apply if
they were.  

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of W0MU
> Mike Fatchett
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:29 PM
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email];
> '[hidden email]; 'G4ILO''
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] So, anyone going to get more CW filtering?
>
>
> I also ran across a stand alone shuttle jog device from
> www.contourdesign.com .  I will check out that keyboard.  It
> looks pretty handy!
>
>
> "A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the
> tongue you may never get over." Ben Franklin -----Original
> Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Greg - AB7R
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:57 AM
> To: [hidden email]; '[hidden email]; G4ILO'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] So, anyone going to get more CW filtering?
>
> This keyboard works GREAT for such things..and has additional
> keys  you can program.
>
> www.bella-usa.com
>
>
>
> -------------------------
> 73,
> Greg - AB7R
> Whidbey Island WA
> NA-065
>
>
> On Mon Feb 23  8:38 , "Julian, G4ILO"  sent:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >Brian Machesney wrote:
> >>
> >> The only item on my wish list is an outboard tuning device
> to sit on
> >> the desk to the left of the keyboard (like my former Omni VII). 48
> >> hours is a long time to reach up to the rig (on a shelf at
> eye level
> >> above the laptop screen) and the keyboard "up/down arrow"
> >> facility isn't flexible enough (station spacing on the
> band is fairly
> >> even, so you want to "zip" up the the next station and
> then "slowly"
> >> tune it in). I can see that I'm going to wear out the
> paint above the
> >> bezel where the fingers of my right hand rest while my
> thumb rotates
> >> the dial.
> >>
> >
> >I presume you're using some computer software to give you
> the "up/down
> >arrow" facility. In which case what you want is a Griffin PowerMate.
> >It's basically a knob attached to a USB cable. The supplied drivers
> >allow you to program different keystrokes for whether you
> turn the knob
> >clockwise or anticlockwise, so you can use it with pretty
> much any program.
> >
> >-----
> >Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> >http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.g4ilo.com/blog.html
> G4ILO's
> >Blog    http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3
> >--
> >View this message in context:
> >http://n2.nabble.com/So%2C-anyone-going-to-get-more-
> CW-filtering--tp2371938p2372963.html
> >Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >Elecraft mailing list
> >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
> >
> >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support
> this email
> >list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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[Julian, G4ILO]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote

The problem with any of the shuttle knobs or keyboards with
integral shuttle control is the need for software support.  
Most of these devices operate by emulating a mouse wheel (the
scroll wheel) and it is not easy to use the external "knob"
to tune while reading e-mail or surfing the web.  

It would be handy if logging/control programs (e.g., CI-V
Commander from DXLab Suite) could "capture" a specific device
like the Griffin Power Mate or Contour Shuttle Express/Shuttle
Pro for exclusive use and operate in the background.  The
shuttle knobs are not so much a problem with contest software
like N1MM Logger since that's not likely to be used in the
background ... but the same considerations would apply if
they were.  

This could probably work (tuning while the app is in the background) if the app could register two or three system-wide hot keys which the tuning device could then emulate. But as you say, it requires the logging/control program developer to implement this. Keystroke or mouse wheel emulation only works if the app is in the foreground.

[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

> This could probably work (tuning while the app is in the
> background) if the app could register two or three
> system-wide hot keys which the tuning device could then
> emulate.

Or it requires the application to take exclusive control of
the tuning input device and hold it while in the background.  
I'm not a Windows programmer so I don't know how feasible
it is to do that.  

Of course a hardware builder could use a scroll wheel/encoder,
three pushbuttons, a toggle switch and a PIC to build an
external encoder.  The PIC would have serial (RS-232) in/out
to pass through normal logging software ... it would read the
pushbuttons, toggle switch and encoder to generate UP#; and
DN#; commands as the encoder was turned ... UP;/DN for 10 Hz
steps, UP3;/DN3; for 50 Hz steps and UP4;/DN4; for 1 KHz
steps.  The toggle switch (or a latching pushbutton) would
select either VFO A or VFO B.  

The same can probably be done in software.  If a Windows
programmer was interested ... it might be interesting to do
a "host application" (one that would accept commands from
the Contour Shuttle Pro/ShuttleXpress and generate the
correct serial output).  

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 1:26 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] So, anyone going to get more CW filtering?
>
>
>
>
> Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
> >
> >
> > The problem with any of the shuttle knobs or keyboards with
> > integral shuttle control is the need for software support.  
> > Most of these devices operate by emulating a mouse wheel (the
> > scroll wheel) and it is not easy to use the external "knob"
> > to tune while reading e-mail or surfing the web.  
> >
> > It would be handy if logging/control programs (e.g., CI-V
> > Commander from DXLab Suite) could "capture" a specific device
> > like the Griffin Power Mate or Contour Shuttle Express/Shuttle
> > Pro for exclusive use and operate in the background.  The
> > shuttle knobs are not so much a problem with contest software
> > like N1MM Logger since that's not likely to be used in the
> > background ... but the same considerations would apply if
> > they were.  
> >
> >
> >
>
> This could probably work (tuning while the app is in the
> background) if the app could register two or three
> system-wide hot keys which the tuning device could then
> emulate. But as you say, it requires the logging/control
> program developer to implement this. Keystroke or mouse wheel
> emulation only works if the app is in the foreground.
>
> -----
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack  
> http://www.g4ilo.com/blog.html G4ILO's
> Blog    http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/So%2C-anyone-going-to-get-more-CW-filteri

ng--tp2371938p2373547.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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