Spurious

[Ken Chandler]

Hi
I've just done some tests with my k3 sn 3759 and have been told I have  
a spurious signal 600Hz above my tx frequency. It was at first heard  
with my amp on but I switched out the amp and ran the k3 with 100w and  
my note was still there.
Signal level on the spurious was aprox 50db down.
My tests were on cw, and my tester was less than 1/2 mile away.
Any idea"s!!!

Ken..G0ORH

Sent from my iPhone



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[David Pratt]

I am getting something similar, Ken, but on 4455kHz. That is 696kHz
above 3759kHz, with all powers from 0.1 to 100W.  It is quite strong on
my local receiver but I don't know how far it is radiating.

73 de David G4DMP


In a recent message, Ken Chandler <[hidden email]> wrote ...
>I've just done some tests with my k3 sn 3759 and have been told I have
>a spurious signal 600Hz above my tx frequency. It was at first heard
>with my amp on but I switched out the amp and ran the k3 with 100w and
>my note was still there.
>Signal level on the spurious was aprox 50db down.
>My tests were on cw, and my tester was less than 1/2 mile away.
>Any idea"s!!!
--
+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+
| David M Pratt G4DMP, Kippax, Leeds, UK  |
| K1 #1117; KX1 #0052; K2 #1583; K3 #0186 |
+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+



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[John Lemay]

Ken

I wonder how big the signal was in his receiver? Sounds like it could be
overload at the other end.

Do you have another rig in your shack that you could do the same test with a
local ?

John G4ZTR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ken Chandler
Sent: 21 December 2009 15:13
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Spurious

Hi
I've just done some tests with my k3 sn 3759 and have been told I have  
a spurious signal 600Hz above my tx frequency. It was at first heard  
with my amp on but I switched out the amp and ran the k3 with 100w and  
my note was still there.
Signal level on the spurious was aprox 50db down.
My tests were on cw, and my tester was less than 1/2 mile away.
Any idea"s!!!

Ken..G0ORH

Sent from my iPhone



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database 4706 (20091221) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


 

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database 4706 (20091221) __________

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[Ken Chandler]

Hi
My previous was the FT2000D which is sold. I had no problems with that radio
or any other radio. At 100w at my tester the signal strength is 60db over s9
on my TX freq, es 10db over s9 600hz up!!

Ken..G0ORH


-----Original Message-----
From: John Lemay [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 21 December 2009 15:34
To: 'Ken Chandler'; [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Spurious

Ken

I wonder how big the signal was in his receiver? Sounds like it could be
overload at the other end.

Do you have another rig in your shack that you could do the same test with a
local ?

John G4ZTR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ken Chandler
Sent: 21 December 2009 15:13
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Spurious

Hi
I've just done some tests with my k3 sn 3759 and have been told I have  
a spurious signal 600Hz above my tx frequency. It was at first heard  
with my amp on but I switched out the amp and ran the k3 with 100w and  
my note was still there.
Signal level on the spurious was aprox 50db down.
My tests were on cw, and my tester was less than 1/2 mile away.
Any idea"s!!!

Ken..G0ORH

Sent from my iPhone



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http://www.eset.com


 

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database 4706 (20091221) __________

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[Joe Planisky]

Hi Ken,

> Signal level on the spurious was aprox 50db down.


Note that the published specifications for the K3 say:

"Harmonic and Spurious: > 50 dB below Carrier (100W) typical."

So depending on which side of 50dB your spur is, it may be nothing to  
worry about.

73
--
Joe KB8AP

On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:13 AM, Ken Chandler wrote:

> Hi
> I've just done some tests with my k3 sn 3759 and have been told I have
> a spurious signal 600Hz above my tx frequency. It was at first heard
> with my amp on but I switched out the amp and ran the k3 with 100w and
> my note was still there.
> Signal level on the spurious was aprox 50db down.
> My tests were on cw, and my tester was less than 1/2 mile away.
> Any idea"s!!!

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[Dick Grolleman]

Please have a look ar Applications notes on the elecraft website There is an
allert on Spurios TX

73 de Dick PA3FQA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Planisky" <[hidden email]>
To: "Ken Chandler" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Spurious

> Hi Ken,
>
>> Signal level on the spurious was aprox 50db down.
>
>
> Note that the published specifications for the K3 say:
>
> "Harmonic and Spurious: > 50 dB below Carrier (100W) typical."
>
> So depending on which side of 50dB your spur is, it may be nothing to
> worry about.
>
> 73
> --
> Joe KB8AP
>
> On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:13 AM, Ken Chandler wrote:
>
>> Hi
>> I've just done some tests with my k3 sn 3759 and have been told I have
>> a spurious signal 600Hz above my tx frequency. It was at first heard
>> with my amp on but I switched out the amp and ran the k3 with 100w and
>> my note was still there.
>> Signal level on the spurious was aprox 50db down.
>> My tests were on cw, and my tester was less than 1/2 mile away.
>> Any idea"s!!!
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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[Jim Brown-10]

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:13:05 +0000, Ken Chandler wrote:

>I've just done some tests with my k3 sn 3759 and have been told I have  
>a spurious signal 600Hz above my tx frequency. It was at first heard  
>with my amp on but I switched out the amp and ran the k3 with 100w and  
>my note was still there.

What transmit frequency? Did you have your internal speaker turned on?  
During the recent ARRL 10M contest, several NCCC members observed spurs
on each others signals and reported it to Elecraft. I'm told that the
cause is acoustic coupling between the speaker and the synthesizer board,
and that the amplitude of the spur is greater on the higher bands.
Elecraft is intimately aware of the issue, and is working on it at the
highest levels.

Obviously, the strength of the spur will be proportional to loudness of
the speaker (on TX, the sidetone setting), and can be eliminated by
turning off the speaker.

BTW -- one reason these spurs are more obvious is that the K3 produces
very little phase noise to mask them. In general, other rigs (including
many that are much higher priced) produce a lot more trash.

73,

Jim K9YC


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[Julian, G4ILO]

Jim Brown-10 wrote

I'm told that the
cause is acoustic coupling between the speaker and the synthesizer board

Somebody reported here a few weeks back they could cause microphony by knocking the K3 case. It adds up.

[David Gilbert]

And of course, if you tune to a receiver spur that is influenced by
cable orientation, it is HEAVILY microphonic ... especially on the
higher bands.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar microphonics exist on
transmit.

73,
Dave   AB7E


Julian, G4ILO wrote:

> Jim Brown-10 wrote:
>  
>> I'm told that the
>> cause is acoustic coupling between the speaker and the synthesizer board
>>
>>    
> Somebody reported here a few weeks back they could cause microphony by
> knocking the K3 case. It adds up.
>
>  

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[N4CW]

I became aware of the problem last summer while in Maine. I was on 6-Meter  
CW and K1DG/N1LI gave me a quick call and asked me to QSY to fone. So I did
and  he asked me what rig I was using; I told him the K3.
Then he told me I had sidebands. It took us a while to find the cause: I  
was operating in "casual" mode and using the K3's internal speaker. What we  
found out was that the problem disappeared when I turned the monitor volume
down  to nothing! ...but it's hard for me to send CW that way, especially
with a  paddle and the internal keyer... Then I found out that the problem
went away if  I used my headphones...so that was the workaround.
 
I called Elecraft support on it and they verified that the problem exists  
and that they're working on it. What was news to me (I should have read the  
manual!!!) was that the CW is generated on the DSP board and that the
speaker  accoustically couples to the board. This is supposed to be minimized by
the  mounting washers on the speaker, so I disassembled the speaker on the
top cover  and reassembled it, being diligent to insure the washers were
properly located,  etc. per the assembly instructions.
 
For good measure/insurance, I've used external speakers or headphones ever  
since.
 
But, you know, there are situations where operators would probably use the  
K3's internal speaker, such as demonstrating the rig to visiting hams or at
 Field Day, or some such thing. That might not be good publicity if a
returning  station or two came back and said "Shut it off...you're polluting the
band!",  and they were right!
 
Like Wayne said, they're working on it.
 
Bert, N4CW
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[Phil Hystad]

One solution that I think is a worthy idea is to remove the speaker from the K3
permanently.  This should allow more room inside the K3 for future little add-on
things that Wayne and Eric might come up with.

Then, a small external speaker in a nice matching enclosure could be sold as a
"kit" separately.  Not all of us would need it.  I have a nice external speaker now
that I would use on my forthcoming K3.

I mean, who uses the built in speaker anyway.  If you are operating portable then
very likely (since you might be outdoors at a campsite for example) you would use
headphones anyway.

phil, K7PEH


On Dec 22, 2009, at 8:06 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I became aware of the problem last summer while in Maine. I was on 6-Meter  
> CW and K1DG/N1LI gave me a quick call and asked me to QSY to fone. So I did
> and  he asked me what rig I was using; I told him the K3.
> Then he told me I had sidebands. It took us a while to find the cause: I  
> was operating in "casual" mode and using the K3's internal speaker. What we  
> found out was that the problem disappeared when I turned the monitor volume
> down  to nothing! ...but it's hard for me to send CW that way, especially
> with a  paddle and the internal keyer... Then I found out that the problem
> went away if  I used my headphones...so that was the workaround.
>
> I called Elecraft support on it and they verified that the problem exists  
> and that they're working on it. What was news to me (I should have read the  
> manual!!!) was that the CW is generated on the DSP board and that the
> speaker  accoustically couples to the board. This is supposed to be minimized by
> the  mounting washers on the speaker, so I disassembled the speaker on the
> top cover  and reassembled it, being diligent to insure the washers were
> properly located,  etc. per the assembly instructions.
>
> For good measure/insurance, I've used external speakers or headphones ever  
> since.
>
> But, you know, there are situations where operators would probably use the  
> K3's internal speaker, such as demonstrating the rig to visiting hams or at
> Field Day, or some such thing. That might not be good publicity if a
> returning  station or two came back and said "Shut it off...you're polluting the
> band!",  and they were right!
>
> Like Wayne said, they're working on it.
>
> Bert, N4CW
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[Mike Reublin]

Let's see if I can generate another 1000 posts  O:-) .

What external speakers are popular with K3ers?

73, Mike NF4L

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[n7ws]

Optimus Pro7AV.

But if you think this is going to fix your spurious problem you better keep some separation between them and your K3.

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:

Let's see if I can generate another 1000 posts  O:-) .

What external speakers are popular with K3ers?

73, Mike NF4L




     
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[Cookie]

My choice is a pair of $20 computer speakers.  I use a pair of 10 year old Labtecs which suit me just fine except that I don't particularly like the modern look.  But then I can't hear anythiing above 2700 Hz and I don't want to hear anything below 300 Hz.  YMMV!
 Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ




________________________________
From: Mike <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Tue, December 22, 2009 10:25:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Spurious

Let's see if I can generate another 1000 posts  O:-) .

What external speakers are popular with K3ers?

73, Mike NF4L

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[Phil LaMarche-2]

Use any good book case speakers.  Even though not needed, I run mine through
an external amplifier for instant adjustment.  Mine are mounted on the wall
facing down at me and I have been satisfied for over 10 years with all my
radio's.

Phil


Philip LaMarche
LaMarche Enterprises, Inc.
www.instantgourmetspices.com

www.w9dvm.com
800-395-7795 pin 02
727-944-3226
FAX [phone]
NASFT 30210

K3  #1605

CCA 98  00827
CRA 1701

W9DVM



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:26 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Spurious

Let's see if I can generate another 1000 posts  O:-) .

What external speakers are popular with K3ers?

73, Mike NF4L

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[Ken Chandler]

Well I have done this yesterday ie removed / disconnected the internal  
speaker so it cannot occur again. It's a fix until Wayne es the boys  
can move up on this minor Issue.

Ken..G0ORH sn3759

Sent from my iPhone




On 22 Dec 2009, at 16:14, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> One solution that I think is a worthy idea is to remove the speaker  
> from the K3
> permanently.  This should allow more room inside the K3 for future  
> little add-on
> things that Wayne and Eric might come up with.
>
> Then, a small external speaker in a nice matching enclosure could be  
> sold as a
> "kit" separately.  Not all of us would need it.  I have a nice  
> external speaker now
> that I would use on my forthcoming K3.
>
> I mean, who uses the built in speaker anyway.  If you are operating  
> portable then
> very likely (since you might be outdoors at a campsite for example)  
> you would use
> headphones anyway.
>
> phil, K7PEH
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2009, at 8:06 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> I became aware of the problem last summer while in Maine. I was on  
>> 6-Meter
>> CW and K1DG/N1LI gave me a quick call and asked me to QSY to fone.  
>> So I did
>> and  he asked me what rig I was using; I told him the K3.
>> Then he told me I had sidebands. It took us a while to find the  
>> cause: I
>> was operating in "casual" mode and using the K3's internal speaker.  
>> What we
>> found out was that the problem disappeared when I turned the  
>> monitor volume
>> down  to nothing! ...but it's hard for me to send CW that way,  
>> especially
>> with a  paddle and the internal keyer... Then I found out that the  
>> problem
>> went away if  I used my headphones...so that was the workaround.
>>
>> I called Elecraft support on it and they verified that the problem  
>> exists
>> and that they're working on it. What was news to me (I should have  
>> read the
>> manual!!!) was that the CW is generated on the DSP board and that the
>> speaker  accoustically couples to the board. This is supposed to be  
>> minimized by
>> the  mounting washers on the speaker, so I disassembled the speaker  
>> on the
>> top cover  and reassembled it, being diligent to insure the washers  
>> were
>> properly located,  etc. per the assembly instructions.
>>
>> For good measure/insurance, I've used external speakers or  
>> headphones ever
>> since.
>>
>> But, you know, there are situations where operators would probably  
>> use the
>> K3's internal speaker, such as demonstrating the rig to visiting  
>> hams or at
>> Field Day, or some such thing. That might not be good publicity if a
>> returning  station or two came back and said "Shut it off...you're  
>> polluting the
>> band!",  and they were right!
>>
>> Like Wayne said, they're working on it.
>>
>> Bert, N4CW
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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[Tom Hammond-2]

Mike:

I personally prefer UNamplified Motorola Mobile speakers, available regularly
on EBay for $10 or less.

The AMPLIFIED Motorola speakers are also good, but require external power.
They can be obtained from EBay for $15 or less. If you buy the amplified
speakers, check my web site for modification info.

http://www.n0ss.net/motorola_amp_spkr_mods_04jul2009.pdf


73,

Tom Hammond   N0SS

At 10:25 12/22/2009, you wrote:

>Let's see if I can generate another 1000 posts  O:-) .
>
>What external speakers are popular with K3ers?
>
>73, Mike NF4L
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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[Mike Reublin]

OK, I hooked up my computer speakers, and .......... dang! Sounds pretty
good.
Now I need to find a pair of speakers that have a balance control.

Mike
WILLIS COOKE wrote:

> My choice is a pair of $20 computer speakers.  I use a pair of 10 year
> old Labtecs which suit me just fine except that I don't particularly
> like the modern look.  But then I can't hear anythiing above 2700 Hz
> and I don't want to hear anything below 300 Hz.  YMMV!
>  
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Mike <[hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Cc:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Tue, December 22, 2009 10:25:45 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] Spurious
>
> Let's see if I can generate another 1000 posts  O:-) .
>
> What external speakers are popular with K3ers?
>
> 73, Mike NF4L
>
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[Mike Reublin]

Thanks, Tom -

Good info.

Mike

Tom Hammond wrote:

> Mike:
>
> I personally prefer UNamplified Motorola Mobile speakers, available
> regularly
> on EBay for $10 or less.
>
> The AMPLIFIED Motorola speakers are also good, but require external
> power.
> They can be obtained from EBay for $15 or less. If you buy the amplified
> speakers, check my web site for modification info.
>
> http://www.n0ss.net/motorola_amp_spkr_mods_04jul2009.pdf
>
>
> 73,
>
> Tom Hammond   N0SS
>
> At 10:25 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>> Let's see if I can generate another 1000 posts  O:-) .
>>
>> What external speakers are popular with K3ers?
>>
>> 73, Mike NF4L
>>
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[Jerry T. Dowell]

Minor issue?? Polluting the bands with spurs is a "minor issue"?

Thankfully the immediate fix is trivial!

Jerry   AI6L

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Chandler [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:45 AM
To: Phil Hystad
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Spurious

Well I have done this yesterday ie removed / disconnected the internal  
speaker so it cannot occur again. It's a fix until Wayne es the boys  
can move up on this minor Issue.

Ken..G0ORH sn3759

Sent from my iPhone



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