Straight Key on my K2
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Hi Everybody,
I want to use my Bencher STRAIGHT KEY with my old Elecraft K2. Can you folks tell me what I have to do? My paddles work just great, but I wanted to try out my straight key. It has a 1/4" phono plug on its cable... TIA, and 73, Carter -- Carter Craigie N3AO K2/100 s/n 678 K1 s/n 159 KX1 s/n 119 -- _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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A STRAIGHT KEY? Does anybody still use those things?
You bet your bippy they do! I sure do! Manual CW is absolutely great. I enjoy it far more than sending code with training wheels (keyer) :-) There is a trick to hooking a straight key to your K2. You must use a 1/8" TRS plug with the key hooked to the tip and sleeve. Leave the ring unconnected. Then, surf through the menus on the K2 and set the input to "hand". My K2 is hooked to one of 3 keys. My favorite is the Junker straight key. I do most of my QSOs with that. The one I'm using most for the time being is the newly acquired Vibroplex bug. My 3rd and by far my least favorite is the Kent paddles and Idiom keyer. I use my paddles only when speed requires it and if I can get good enough with the bug, I may consider retiring the paddles all together ... 73! - Keith KD1E - - K2 5411 - - SKCC 344 - -----Original Message----- From: Carter W. Craigie Hi Everybody, I want to use my Bencher STRAIGHT KEY with my old Elecraft K2. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Carter W. Craigie
Hi Carter -
Instead of setting the K2 for "Hand Key" I chose to take advantage of the auto-sense mode. I connected a diode in series with the tip and a diode in series with the ring across the paddle mini-plug and out to my sparkless Navy straight key. So can send with the paddle and the straight key just by moving my hand from device to the other. This takes advantage of the K2's logic that says if the ring and tip are grounded at the EXACT same time send like a straight key otherwise act like a keyer. See Figure 8-1 on page 95 of the rev F owner's manual. 73 de Tom K2TA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carter W. Craigie" <[hidden email]> To: "Elecraft List Members" <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:34 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Straight Key on my K2 Hi Everybody, I want to use my Bencher STRAIGHT KEY with my old Elecraft K2. Can you folks tell me what I have to do? My paddles work just great, but I wanted to try out my straight key. It has a 1/4" phono plug on its cable... TIA, and 73, _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Carter W. Craigie
Carter,
There are several possibilities for hooking up a straight key to the K2. If you want to retain the use of paddles, try the connections shown on page 95 of the manual (be certain you have auto-detect turned on in the menu). Adapting to the existing plug is an exercise I leave to your own resources. If you don't mind plugging and unplugging the straight key to exchange it with paddles, then just change the plug to a 3.5mm stereo plug - if you wire the handkey to both the tip and ring, then you can use it with the auto-detect as above. There was a proper stereo plug supplied with your K2 kit parts. You can also wire the handkey only to the tip of the stereo plug, but you nust change the K2 menu to 'INP Hand' or you will get a string of dots when you press the key. This is the most positive method should you find trouble with the auto-detect feature. You can also wire the handkey to both the tip and ring as above and use this method - the K2 internal keyer will ignore the normal dash connection on the ring of the plug when in INP Hand. Take your pick - there have been some reports that auto-detect sometimes gives a string of dots or dashes, and my thoughts are that it may be caused by contact bounce at the handkey, so keep the contacts clean if you use that method - dragging a clean piece of non-glossy paper while holding a slight pressure on the key is usually enough to clean and slightly burnish the contacts, and I have seen reports that a tiny drop of a contact treatment stuff (I think it is called DeOxIt, but my memory is fuzzy). That is about the extent of my information on connecting a hand key to the K2. 73, Don W3FPR > -----Original Message----- > > Hi Everybody, > I want to use my Bencher STRAIGHT KEY with my old Elecraft K2. > Can you folks tell me what I have to do? > My paddles work just great, but I wanted to try out my straight > key. It has > a 1/4" phono plug on its cable... > TIA, and 73, > > Carter > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Tom Althoff
In a recent message, Tom Althoff <[hidden email]> wrote ...
>I connected a diode in series with the tip and a diode in series with >the ring across the paddle mini-plug and out to my sparkless Navy >straight key. > >So can send with the paddle and the straight key just by moving my hand >from device to the other. I am pleased to learn that you have had success in doing this, Tom. I am afraid that in trying to do this I get alternate dots and dashes occasionally when pressing the straight key. Following suggestions on here, I have even tried using matched Schottky diodes but still get the trouble. I find that the only sure way of sending using the straight key is to change the menu to InP HAnd 73 de David G4DMP _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Try the Vibroplex Code-Mite, looks like a toy but it's not, it's a
nice solid little key. 73 de NS6Y. Alex. On Jul 28, 2006, at 10:50 AM, David Pratt wrote: > In a recent message, Tom Althoff <[hidden email]> wrote ... >> I connected a diode in series with the tip and a diode in series >> with the ring across the paddle mini-plug and out to my sparkless >> Navy straight key. >> >> So can send with the paddle and the straight key just by moving my >> hand from device to the other. > > I am pleased to learn that you have had success in doing this, Tom. > I am afraid that in trying to do this I get alternate dots and > dashes occasionally when pressing the straight key. Following > suggestions on here, I have even tried using matched Schottky > diodes but still get the trouble. I find that the only sure way of > sending using the straight key is to change the menu to InP HAnd > > 73 de David G4DMP > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by David Pratt
I am pleased to learn that you have had success in doing this, Tom. I am
afraid that in trying to do this I get alternate dots and dashes occasionally when pressing the straight key. Following suggestions on here, I have even tried using matched Schottky diodes but still get the trouble. I find that the only sure way of sending using the straight key is to change the menu to InP HAnd 73 de David G4DMP ------------------------- You are not alone, David. That's my experience too. Since I use a bug or straight key all the time, it's no issue to leave the K2 in handkey mode. I recall that there has been a couple of threads on this subject. Clearly, not all K2's (or keys or operators) are the same <G>. Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Carter W. Craigie
In a recent message, Tom Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote ...
>When set to MENU | INP | PDL N, THEN press [DISPLAY] and set A DET to >ON. Did you, by chance, forget that small item? It's crucial. I did forget to do that, Tom; thanks for the advice. But.... I have just changed "AdEt On" and am still getting the same problem with the straight key. 73 de David G4DMP _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Carter W. Craigie
Right Tom, I have done that... Joined the dit and dah connections both
to the hot side of the straight key and removed the 1N5821 Schottky diodes completely. And yes, I still have the problem of occasional dah-di-dah-di-dahs when pressing the key. As you suggest, that would appear to rule out any problem with the diodes. (I have previously tried numerous combinations and types of matched pairs of diodes.) So what next? Does that suggest a problem with my Rev 2.04 firmware (I/O Rev 1.09)? Thanks David In a recent message, Tom Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote ... >We're going to try bypassing the diodes completely and see if you can >key properly... > >Using a couple clipleads (if you have them), connect one end (each) >directly to the TIP and RING terminals on the KEY plug, then clip both >of the other ends of the clipleads to the hot side of the key. Leave >the grounded side connected to the sleeve of the plug. > >If you can now key the K2 and not have alternating DIT/DAHs, then the >problem is in diodes, or at least one of them. If you still get >alternating DIT/DAHs, then the problem is in the K2 or in the firmware, >as AdEt is not functioning as it should. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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This issue (getting alternate dits and dahs when using a hand key with
autodetect) came up years ago - five or so IIRC. It was finally pinned down to a polling issue in the K2. That is, that even though both ring and tip were pulled to ground simultaneously, the controller in the K2 didn't always recognize that fact, depending upon what else it was managing at the moment. It wasn't an issue for me because I simply switched to Hand mode so I don't recall details beyond that. Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Many thanks, Ron. I wonder whether this is something that could be
cleared up when the controller is upgraded? Mine is version 1.09. As it is at present, our K2s are clearly not working as intended. 73 de David G4DMP In a recent message, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote ... >This issue (getting alternate dits and dahs when using a hand key with >autodetect) came up years ago - five or so IIRC. It was finally pinned down >to a polling issue in the K2. That is, that even though both ring and tip >were pulled to ground simultaneously, the controller in the K2 didn't always >recognize that fact, depending upon what else it was managing at the moment. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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David,
Before blaming the firmware level (you apparently have an older K2), check the values of R1 and R2 in your K2. If they are the older value of 470 ohms, change them to 220 ohms. That may help the situation. BUT... The real problem is due to contact bounce at the key contacts. The firmware cannot detect the closure on both the dot and dash lines at the same time, but when one is detected, the other is checked to see if it is closed too - now if the contacts are bouncing, at the exact time the opposite line is checked, it occurs at a time that just happens to be during a higher voltage part of the bounce cycle. For those not familiar with contact bounce, it happens with any switch on initial contact closure - if one were to look at the closure with a 'scope, there will be periods when the contacts are actually closed and times when they are open (when viewed on a microsecond scale) - only after that initial contact bounce has settled down are the contacts really closed full-time. We perceive a switch or key as fully closed instantly because our brains and senses do not work on that small a time frame, but it makes a big difference to electronics which do work at microsecond increments. You will find autodetect more reliable if you drive the K2 keying from an electronic keyer or computer. It is hand keys that cause the problem. The extent and frequency of failure will depend on the key contacts - large soft-metal plated contacts (gold or silver) should be better than keys with brass or nickel plated contacts (but they will still bounce). Old mercury switches and relays were a solution to this contact bounce problem. If you can find a mercury wetted reed relay, use the handkey to activate the relay coil and use the relay contacts to drive the auto-detect diodes and I believe you will achieve much more reliable operation, but then that is putting a lot more components into what should be a simple arrangement. Sometimes simplicity does have its disadvantages. There are electronic methods to combat the contact bounce problem and the really reliable ones usually involve set/reset latches that set on the contact closure and are hit with a reset pulse sometime later (up to 10 milliseconds later would be a reasonable choice for hand key speeds) - the set must override the reset, so choose the latch logic carefully. Of course, the easy solution is to use an external keyer and connect the hand key in parallel with its output - the K2 can be permanently set to INP Hnd for that setup. 73, Don W3FPR > -----Original Message----- > > Many thanks, Ron. I wonder whether this is something that could be > cleared up when the controller is upgraded? Mine is version 1.09. > > As it is at present, our K2s are clearly not working as intended. > > 73 de David G4DMP > > In a recent message, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote ... > >This issue (getting alternate dits and dahs when using a hand key with > >autodetect) came up years ago - five or so IIRC. It was finally > pinned down > >to a polling issue in the K2. That is, that even though both ring and tip > >were pulled to ground simultaneously, the controller in the K2 > didn't always > >recognize that fact, depending upon what else it was managing at > the moment. > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Don Wilhelm wrote:
> The real problem is due to contact bounce at the key contacts. I agree. I've been successful at using a bug with auto-detect by making a simple reed relay switch as follows: Get a radio shack 12 volt SPST reed relay (part no. is 275-233). One side of the relay coil goes to the positive terminal of a 9v battery and the other side goes to your key or bug's ungrounded contacts. In parallel with the coil put a 10 uf 25v electrolytic capacitor (also from Radio Shack) and any silicon diode. Orient the capactitor so that the positive side goes to the coil terminal that is connected to the battery. The diode is reverse-connected; its CATHODE goes to the coil terminal that is connected to the battery. Finally, connect the negative side of the battery to the bug's grounded side. If you want to run the circuit from a 12v supply instead of a battery, put an 820 ohm 1/4w resistor in series with the 12v. Use a fixed font to view the schematic below: coil |------------+@@@@@@@+--------> to key | | 10uf | - + +--| (--+ --- - 9v | | | +--|<---+ diode |------------------------------> /// -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-3
I think this is really the approach to use. The K2 keyer is fine but an
external keyer can be in improvement. Leave the ring in Hnd mode and let the external keyer do the work. Then hook your straight key, side swiper and bug in parallel with the output of the keyer and away you go! - Keith KD1E - - K2 5411 - -----Original Message----- Of course, the easy solution is to use an external keyer and connect the hand key in parallel with its output - the K2 can be permanently set to INP Hnd for that setup. 73, Don W3FPR _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-3
Thanks for the info, Don. My K2 is #01583, but fully upgraded with the
Revision B mods. R1 and R2 are 220 ohms. I have a dual key. That is an iambic paddle and a straight key on one base. My reason for wishing to be able to use the straight key with the "InP PdLn" & "AdEt On" menu settings is so that I can momentarily swap over to the hand key during an over to emphasise something. Although I could change the menu to "InP Hand" it is obviously impractical to do this in that situation. Not to worry. If there isn't a solution to the problem by a simple component change, I am willing to accept the shortcomings of the K2 in this. In all other respects the K2 is a marvellous piece of ingenious design and I have no hesitation in recommending it to anyone. 73 de David G4DMP In a recent message, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote ... >Before blaming the firmware level (you apparently have an older K2), check >the values of R1 and R2 in your K2. If they are the older value of 470 >ohms, change them to 220 ohms. That may help the situation. ..... >You will find autodetect more reliable if you drive the K2 keying from an >electronic keyer or computer. It is hand keys that cause the problem. ..... >Of course, the easy solution is to use an external keyer and connect the >hand key in parallel with its output - the K2 can be permanently set to INP >Hnd for that setup. [Some of Don's comments not quoted for brevity, but nevertheless read with interest.] _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
Oo, err! Fine, Keith, but what a waste of the excellent internal
electronic bug circuitry of the K2 and the means of adjusting the speed from the front panel. 73 de David G4DMP In a recent message, "Darwin, Keith" <[hidden email]> wrote ... >I think this is really the approach to use. The K2 keyer is fine but an >external keyer can be in improvement. Leave the ring in Hnd mode and >let the external keyer do the work. Then hook your straight key, side >swiper and bug in parallel with the output of the keyer and away you go! _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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-----Original Message----- From: David Pratt > Oo, err! Fine, Keith, but what a waste of the excellent internal electronic bug > circuitry of the K2 and the means of adjusting the speed from the front panel. Oh, yea, (that's "American" for Ooo, err IIRC :-) I suppose, but to me it is a small price to pay for being able to use my beloved straight key :-) Actually, I find my Idiom Press keyer to be superior to the keyer implementation in the K2. Not by much, but it is better. And it has one knob on the front for speed. One of these days I'm going to build a jack box that will have several jacks all paralleled together into a common 1/8" TRS output. That way I can plug in many things, mixing and matching keys as the spirit moves. - Keith KD1E - - K2 5411 - _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Carter W. Craigie
Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>The real problem is due to contact bounce at the key contacts. The firmware >cannot detect the closure on both the dot and dash lines at the same time, >but when one is detected, the other is checked to see if it is closed too - >now if the contacts are bouncing, at the exact time the opposite line is >checked, it occurs at a time that just happens to be during a higher voltage >part of the bounce cycle. > ... I found the suggestion by Ed, KG4ARN (listed on LA3ZA's mods page) http://www.ac6rm.net/mailarchive/html/elecraft-list/2003-06/msg00979.html to add a 0.1 microfarad capacitor across the straight key or bug worked for me. The time constant for the paddle lines to come back high is set by the 220 ohm resistor and 0.001 microfarad capacitors in the key lines which gives a time constant of 0.22 microseconds. Adding the 0.1 microfarad capacitor across the key changes this to 22 microseconds. This seems like a reasonable value to me since a test in the controller should take about 2 microseconds; testing both the dot and dash lines sequentially should complete in about 4 microseconds. 73 Kevin w9cf _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
One of these days I'm going to build a jack box that will have several jacks all paralleled together into a common 1/8" TRS output. That way I can plug in many things, mixing and matching keys as the spirit moves. - Keith KD1E - - K2 5411 - ================================= Keith - I am going to do the same thing, but with a switch to be able to output to different rigs. Its importamt to be mindfull of grounds. Otherwise, the circuit might not be long enough (a little short), if the key bases touch. Ideally, I would like to do this in the keyer box. Right now, I have multiple jacks in my keyer box in parallel with my keyer output jack but I have to move plug to the rig de jour. I need to decide on RCA or mini phone jacks at the keyer. I am leaning toward RCA as I have had better luck with reliability that way. Someday. Rick Dettinger K7MW_______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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