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Stripping toroid leads

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Edward A. Dauer

Stripping toroid leads

The ³Blob Method² worked well for me in building the K2 (and now the K1);
but it might be important not to inhale.

At the time I looked into what¹s in the fumes when both the solder and the
enamel coating on the wire are smoking. While I don¹t know exactly what
the coating is on the particular wire supplied by Elecraft, in general
when it¹s vaporized the coating is vile stuff. I set a fan on the
workbench to direct the fumes away from my face; and I still held my
breath for each winding leg. Makes it useful to learn how to do a fast
Blob Strip.

Ted, KN1CBR

>Message: 11
>Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 22:32:59 -0400
>From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
>To: lstavenhagen <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1 (still) a classic!
>Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>LS,
>
>There is a "secret" to soldering the grounding wires to the base of the
>crystals.
>. . .
>
>It is easier for me than stripping and tinning toroid leads.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>

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Don Wilhelm-5

Re: Stripping toroid leads

Yes, the fumes from that burnt enamel are quite nasty. I would say they
are more harmful than normal solder flux vapors.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/5/2016 6:58 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:

> The ³Blob Method² worked well for me in building the K2 (and now the K1);
> but it might be important not to inhale.
>
> At the time I looked into what¹s in the fumes when both the solder and the
> enamel coating on the wire are smoking. While I don¹t know exactly what
> the coating is on the particular wire supplied by Elecraft, in general
> when it¹s vaporized the coating is vile stuff. I set a fan on the
> workbench to direct the fumes away from my face; and I still held my
> breath for each winding leg. Makes it useful to learn how to do a fast
> Blob Strip.
>
> Ted, KN1CBR
>
>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 22:32:59 -0400
>> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
>> To: lstavenhagen <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1 (still) a classic!
>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>> LS,
>>
>> There is a "secret" to soldering the grounding wires to the base of the
>> crystals.
>> . . .
>>
>> It is easier for me than stripping and tinning toroid leads.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Stripping toroid leads

I seem to recall they could produce cyanide fumes. Best to use good ventilation and a fume extractor fan with filter if you are doing a lot of them. I like the smell of solder flux, but after reading about the health problems they can cause I invested in a fume extractor here.

73 from David GM4JJJ

> On 6 Apr 2016, at 00:08, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yes, the fumes from that burnt enamel are quite nasty. I would say they are more harmful than normal solder flux vapors.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 4/5/2016 6:58 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
>> The ³Blob Method² worked well for me in building the K2 (and now the K1);
>> but it might be important not to inhale.
>>
>> At the time I looked into what¹s in the fumes when both the solder and the
>> enamel coating on the wire are smoking. While I don¹t know exactly what
>> the coating is on the particular wire supplied by Elecraft, in general
>> when it¹s vaporized the coating is vile stuff. I set a fan on the
>> workbench to direct the fumes away from my face; and I still held my
>> breath for each winding leg. Makes it useful to learn how to do a fast
>> Blob Strip.
>>
>> Ted, KN1CBR
>>
>>
>>> Message: 11
>>> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 22:32:59 -0400
>>> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
>>> To: lstavenhagen <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1 (still) a classic!
>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>>
>>> LS,
>>>
>>> There is a "secret" to soldering the grounding wires to the base of the
>>> crystals.
>>> . . .
>>>
>>> It is easier for me than stripping and tinning toroid leads.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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K9MA

Re: Stripping toroid leads

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

There are two very different kinds of insulation used on magnet wire.
One type, which I presume Elecraft uses, can be stripped with solder and
a sufficiently hot soldering iron. It's also fairly easy to scrape
off. The other, "heavy polythermaleze", or whatever it's called these
days, is practically indestructible. It has to be stripped
mechanically, and even that's hard. I think the copper would melt
before the stuff would burn. Unless you're planning to run your toroids
really hot, it's more trouble than it's worth.

73,

Scott K9MA

On 4/5/2016 17:58, Dauer, Edward wrote:

--
Scott Ellington K9MA
Madison, Wisconsin, USA

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Stripping toroid leads

The wire Elecraft supplies is in the category of "Thermalese" which is
heat strippable, but if you get wire from an electric motor shop, that
insulation will likely be "Formvar" which resists heat and must be
mechanically stripped.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/5/2016 7:17 PM, Scott Ellington wrote:
> There are two very different kinds of insulation used on magnet wire.
> One type, which I presume Elecraft uses, can be stripped with solder
> and a sufficiently hot soldering iron. It's also fairly easy to
> scrape off. The other, "heavy polythermaleze", or whatever it's
> called these days, is practically indestructible. It has to be
> stripped mechanically, and even that's hard. I think the copper would
> melt before the stuff would burn. Unless you're planning to run your
> toroids really hot, it's more trouble than it's worth.

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lstavenhagen

Re: Stripping toroid leads

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

Glad I use the sandpaper method on my toroid leads lol. In fact, funny this should come up, because I just started winding my new K2's toroids this evening. But the solder blob method fails on this kit in exactly the same way as it did on my first K2 some years ago. It's possible that the tip in my iron is too cold (weller WTCPT with 700f tip), but I can hold it onto the wire forever and it'll never bubble up and burn off. Go figure....

But as others have noted, it scrapes off pretty easily so I just use some fine sandpaper and I can clean them almost all the way up to the hilt (the toroid body). Works perfectly as long as I'm not too aggressive and remove too much metal.

I too kind of like the smell of flux, but I try to keep from breathing it in too much.

73,
LS
W5QD

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Stripping toroid leads

LS,

Yes, the solder blob method works best with a wide tip on the iron to
hold a substantial blob of solder and a temperature of 800 degF.
I use my Hakko 808 for stripping leads, and it works wonderfully. The
only downside is that the enamel residue accumulates in the desoldering
tip and I have to clean it well after using it for stripping and
tinning. For those who have a desoldering iron similar to the Hakko
808, put the lead in the tip and add a bit of solder at the junction of
the tip and wire. When you see a puff of smoke come out, pull the
trigger and extract the lead. You should find a nicely stripped and
tinned lead.
Clean the desoldering iron afterwards.

I would discourage builders from using the "flick the BIC" stripping.
While it does vaporize the enamel, there is a residue left that often
resists proper tinning afterward. My repair activities have revealed
many PTTL (Poorly Tinned Toriod Leads) that have been stripped of enamel
using a flame. If you do use a flame to strip the toroid leads, clean
the residue from the leads with sandpaper and then tin.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/5/2016 8:51 PM, lstavenhagen wrote:

> Glad I use the sandpaper method on my toroid leads lol. In fact, funny this
> should come up, because I just started winding my new K2's toroids this
> evening. But the solder blob method fails on this kit in exactly the same
> way as it did on my first K2 some years ago. It's possible that the tip in
> my iron is too cold (weller WTCPT with 700f tip), but I can hold it onto the
> wire forever and it'll never bubble up and burn off. Go figure....
>
> But as others have noted, it scrapes off pretty easily so I just use some
> fine sandpaper and I can clean them almost all the way up to the hilt (the
> toroid body). Works perfectly as long as I'm not too aggressive and remove
> too much metal.
>
>

Dave Heil

Re: Stripping toroid leads

An old engineer at Foster Transformer in Cincinnati once showed me a
method which caused the Ideal company to take their new abrasive enamel
removing machine off the market: The fellow took a newly-made
transformer with about eight enameled leads off the bench. He then
straightened the leads and dipped them all about 3/8" into a solder pot.

73,

Dave K8MN

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Mike Dodd

Re: Stripping toroid leads

On 4/6/2016 11:13 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
> ...eight enameled leads off the bench. He then
> straightened the leads and dipped them all about 3/8" into a solder pot.

Remember Vector's "wiring pencil?"
<http://www.piclist.com/techref/pcbwires.htm> You used it to wire a
breadboard with #32 enameled wire. Once you wrapped the wire around a
pin, you applied a soldering iron and solder, which melted the enamel to
allow a good solder joint.

I still have mine, and used it just a few weeks ago to wire an Arduino
breadboard.

--
73, Mike N4CF
Louisa County, VA USA
Elecraft KX3 + KXPA100 @ 100W
Elecraft PX3 panadapter
Carolina Windom up 45'
http://n4cf.mdodd.com
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Edward R Cole

Re: Stripping toroid leads

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

I always figured the enamel should be removed. I just scrape them
with a small razor knife which leaves the copper bright and ready for
tinning. Melting the enamel with my solder iron results in a messy
glob on the iron and not a very clean lead. I don't own a solder pot
but could see that would work except for contamination of the solder
if you do many.

I am mostly winding air coils for VHF equipment, so its what is
normally coating magnet wire.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Richard Fjeld-2

Re: Stripping toroid leads

I try to keep a working wood-burner pencil for jobs that will ruin the
tin on my soldering pencil.
I often clean the trash off the leads, or pencil, by wiping them with a
rag or cloth glove.

Dick, n0ce

On 4/6/2016 11:35 AM, Edward R Cole wrote:
> I always figured the enamel should be removed. I just scrape them
> with a small razor knife which leaves the copper bright and ready for
> tinning. Melting the enamel with my solder iron results in a messy
> glob on the iron and not a very clean lead.

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k6dgw

Re: Stripping toroid leads

Damp kitchen sponge works great. My Weller solder station has a little
one with cuts in it in the base of the holder. Whatever enamel
contamination ends up of the iron tip comes right off and the tip is
shiny and bright again.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 4/6/2016 10:29 AM, Richard Fjeld wrote:
> I try to keep a working wood-burner pencil for jobs that will ruin the
> tin on my soldering pencil.
> I often clean the trash off the leads, or pencil, by wiping them with a
> rag or cloth glove.
>
> Dick, n0ce

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N2TK

Re: Stripping toroid leads

Is there a recommendation on small solder pots? I don't need one often, but
there are times such as stripping several wires and/or tinning wires where
it would be nice to just dip the wire into the pot to remove the insulation.
I see some online for <$30. Are they any good?

73,
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred
Jensen
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 1:45 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Stripping toroid leads

Damp kitchen sponge works great. My Weller solder station has a little one
with cuts in it in the base of the holder. Whatever enamel contamination
ends up of the iron tip comes right off and the tip is shiny and bright
again.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 4/6/2016 10:29 AM, Richard Fjeld wrote:
> I try to keep a working wood-burner pencil for jobs that will ruin the
> tin on my soldering pencil.
> I often clean the trash off the leads, or pencil, by wiping them with
> a rag or cloth glove.
>
> Dick, n0ce

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JohnE

Re: Stripping toroid leads

I don't remember where I found this idea - might have been on this forum
- or youtube...

I have an old 30W soldering iron. I removed the tip and replaced it
with a Phillips-head bolt the same size thread. Took a 3/32 drill bit,
and drilled into the Phillips-head out abt 1/2inch deep. Put the
soldering iron into a vice - or clamp it to your bench, business-side
up. Fill the hole with solder, and voilà - a mini solder pot.

73 de JohnE/kd0nqc

On 04/06/2016 01:06 PM, N2TK, Tony wrote:
> Is there a recommendation on small solder pots? I don't need one often, but
> there are times such as stripping several wires and/or tinning wires where
> it would be nice to just dip the wire into the pot to remove the insulation.
> I see some online for <$30. Are they any good?
>
> 73,
> N2TK, Tony

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EricJ

Re: Stripping toroid leads

In reply to this post by Mike Dodd

Looks identical to the wirewrap tools that were around ~30+ years ago or
so. I still have one as the fine wire is great for making minor PCB
changes or repairs. Never thought to load it with enamel wire as you do.
It would make it even easier to make those changes/repairs.

Eric
KE6us

On 4/6/2016 8:37 AM, Mike Dodd wrote:

> On 4/6/2016 11:13 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
>> ...eight enameled leads off the bench. He then
>> straightened the leads and dipped them all about 3/8" into a solder pot.
>
> Remember Vector's "wiring pencil?"
> <http://www.piclist.com/techref/pcbwires.htm> You used it to wire a
> breadboard with #32 enameled wire. Once you wrapped the wire around a
> pin, you applied a soldering iron and solder, which melted the enamel
> to allow a good solder joint.
>
> I still have mine, and used it just a few weeks ago to wire an Arduino
> breadboard.
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Stripping toroid leads

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

I prefer the solder pot set on max to strip enamel and all other non thermal coatings. I do use a wade of steel wool to wisk the material off. No abrasions and no nicks.
Mel, K6KBE

From: Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Stripping toroid leads

Ed's approach is one that I've used from time to time, but let me add one
caution. Be very careful to avoid nicking the wire. It's very easy to do
with fine wire most often by an accidental press where you start removing
the enamel.

The nick will create a weak spot that may fail later. And with that we could
segue back into the question of breaking wires off in gear that is subject
to vibration.

I know that Mychael (the toroidguy) uses a solder pot. He's often grumbled
to me about finding one what works well over time. AFAIK he has compromised
on a fairly inexpensive pot that he ends up recycling after a year or so of
use when the heater or thermostat fails. Also one needs to keep the dross
(burned enamel, etc.) that covers the surface of the solder cleaned off so
it doesn't coat the wire as you remove it. Don't forget that you need a lump
of solder to melt in it too.

73, Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:36 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Stripping toroid leads

I always figured the enamel should be removed. I just scrape them with a
small razor knife which leaves the copper bright and ready for tinning.
Melting the enamel with my solder iron results in a messy glob on the iron
and not a very clean lead. I don't own a solder pot but could see that
would work except for contamination of the solder if you do many.

I am mostly winding air coils for VHF equipment, so its what is normally
coating magnet wire.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Stripping toroid leads

Administrator

Looks like we've beat this one to deaf. Let's end the thread in the interest of
reducing email overload for our readers.

73,

Eric
Moderatorororor
/elecraft.com/

On 4/6/2016 12:20 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

> I prefer the solder pot set on max to strip enamel and all other non thermal coatings. I do use a wade of steel wool to wisk the material off. No abrasions and no nicks.
> Mel, K6KBE
>
>
> From: Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 11:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Stripping toroid leads
>
> Ed's approach is one that I've used from time to time, but let me add one
> caution. Be very careful to avoid nicking the wire. It's very easy to do
> with fine wire most often by an accidental press where you start removing
> the enamel.
>
> The nick will create a weak spot that may fail later. And with that we could
> segue back into the question of breaking wires off in gear that is subject
> to vibration.
>
> I know that Mychael (the toroidguy) uses a solder pot. He's often grumbled
> to me about finding one what works well over time. AFAIK he has compromised
> on a fairly inexpensive pot that he ends up recycling after a year or so of
> use when the heater or thermostat fails. Also one needs to keep the dross
> (burned enamel, etc.) that covers the surface of the solder cleaned off so
> it doesn't coat the wire as you remove it. Don't forget that you need a lump
> of solder to melt in it too.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward
> R Cole
> Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:36 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Stripping toroid leads
>
> I always figured the enamel should be removed. I just scrape them with a
> small razor knife which leaves the copper bright and ready for tinning.
> Melting the enamel with my solder iron results in a messy glob on the iron
> and not a very clean lead. I don't own a solder pot but could see that
> would work except for contamination of the solder if you do many.
>
> I am mostly winding air coils for VHF equipment, so its what is normally
> coating magnet wire.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> "Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Nr4c

Re: Stripping toroid leads

In reply to this post by N2TK

Saw a picture of a small "candelabra" socket (RS has them) on a board and a screw-in soldering element of 40 watts with a screw-in tip (tip removed and the hole filled with solder). I drilled the threads out of the hole and it actually worked.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Apr 6, 2016, at 2:06 PM, N2TK, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Is there a recommendation on small solder pots? I don't need one often, but
> there are times such as stripping several wires and/or tinning wires where
> it would be nice to just dip the wire into the pot to remove the insulation.
> I see some online for <$30. Are they any good?
>
> 73,
> N2TK, Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred
> Jensen
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 1:45 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Stripping toroid leads
>
> Damp kitchen sponge works great. My Weller solder station has a little one
> with cuts in it in the base of the holder. Whatever enamel contamination
> ends up of the iron tip comes right off and the tip is shiny and bright
> again.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
> - www.cqp.org
>
>> On 4/6/2016 10:29 AM, Richard Fjeld wrote:
>> I try to keep a working wood-burner pencil for jobs that will ruin the
>> tin on my soldering pencil.
>> I often clean the trash off the leads, or pencil, by wiping them with
>> a rag or cloth glove.
>>
>> Dick, n0ce
>
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Mike Dodd

Re: Stripping toroid leads

In reply to this post by EricJ

On 4/6/2016 2:44 PM, EricJ wrote:
> Looks identical to the wirewrap tools that were around ~30+ years ago or
> so. I still have one as the fine wire is great for making minor PCB
> changes or repairs. Never thought to load it with enamel wire as you do.
> It would make it even easier to make those changes/repairs.

No, wirewrap is completely different. It uses insulated (_not_ enameled)
#30 wire that must be stripped before wrapping. A motorized tool wraps
around 0.25" square posts. The sharp edges cut into the wire to make a
gas-tight connection. The connection is not soldered.

Trust me -- Early in my career,I spent hundreds of hours making
thousands of wirewrapped connections, and I even bought a Gardner-Denver
AC powered tool for home use (vs. the battery-powered tools we used at
work). I still have that tool, and a thousand feet of #30 wire, but I do
little wrapping these days.

The Vector tool is just a plastic "pencil" with a hollow metal tip
through which the enameled wire feeds. You manually wrap the wire around
a pin, move the pencil to the next pin, wrap that, and cut the wire.
Then you solder both pins. The solder melts through the enamel to make a
normal joint.

--
73, Mike N4CF
Louisa County, VA USA
Elecraft KX3 + KXPA100 @ 100W
Elecraft PX3 panadapter
Carolina Windom up 45'
http://n4cf.mdodd.com
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k6mrmagnet

Re: Stripping toroid leads

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

Vector also made a wire wrap tool that did not require stripping before wrapping: “Slit ‘n Wrap”. The tip of the tool had a knife edge that stripped the wire on the inside edge as you wrapped. They made a special wire that was sort of a cross between enamel and standard wire wrap wire. It was really quick because you could daisy chain from pin to pin without cutting/stripping individual wires. OK Machine Tool also made the “Just Wrap” which was a knock off of the same idea.

Ken K6MR

From: Mike Dodd<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 17:40
To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Stripping toroid leads

On 4/6/2016 2:44 PM, EricJ wrote:
> Looks identical to the wirewrap tools that were around ~30+ years ago or
> so. I still have one as the fine wire is great for making minor PCB
> changes or repairs. Never thought to load it with enamel wire as you do.
> It would make it even easier to make those changes/repairs.

No, wirewrap is completely different. It uses insulated (_not_ enameled)
#30 wire that must be stripped before wrapping. A motorized tool wraps
around 0.25" square posts. The sharp edges cut into the wire to make a
gas-tight connection. The connection is not soldered.

Trust me -- Early in my career,I spent hundreds of hours making
thousands of wirewrapped connections, and I even bought a Gardner-Denver
AC powered tool for home use (vs. the battery-powered tools we used at
work). I still have that tool, and a thousand feet of #30 wire, but I do
little wrapping these days.

The Vector tool is just a plastic "pencil" with a hollow metal tip
through which the enameled wire feeds. You manually wrap the wire around
a pin, move the pencil to the next pin, wrap that, and cut the wire.
Then you solder both pins. The solder melts through the enamel to make a
normal joint.

--
73, Mike N4CF
Louisa County, VA USA
Elecraft KX3 + KXPA100 @ 100W
Elecraft PX3 panadapter
Carolina Windom up 45'
http://n4cf.mdodd.com
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