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Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

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Steve Hall

Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

During my hamming of over 50 years, the FCC has never felt it necessary to
threaten hams not to break the law, that is not until we have this new
administration coming into control. My concern is what they will define in
the future as criminal acts.
73,
Steve
WM6P
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Phil Kane-2

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

On 1/18/2021 6:10 AM, Steve Hall wrote:

> During my hamming of over 50 years, the FCC has never felt it necessary to
> threaten hams not to break the law, that is not until we have this new
> administration coming into control. My concern is what they will define in
> the future as criminal acts.

That's because up to now it was unthinkable that licensed hams would use
amateur radio in the commission of crimes. The law and the enforcement
apparatus always was there, though, and was used without any publicity.
We're going through violent times now and it's sad that such a notice
had to be issued. Violators can't say that they weren't warned.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
(30 year veteran of FCC Field Enforcement)

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Dennis Moore

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

In reply to this post by Steve Hall

Hear, hear.

73, Dennis NJ6G

On 1/18/2021 06:10, Steve Hall wrote:
> During my hamming of over 50 years, the FCC has never felt it necessary to
> threaten hams not to break the law, that is not until we have this new
> administration coming into control. My concern is what they will define in
> the future as criminal acts.
> 73,
> Steve
> WM6P
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Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

In reply to this post by Steve Hall

There was a case a while back where a ham had his license pulled because he
was convicted of telecom fraud.
IIRC, the FCC said it was evidence that he was unwilling to follow the
rules.
And I think it only came visible because he protested, or filed to get it
reinstated.
I suspect Phil can recall more details.
It's been a while.
73, doug

Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 10:07:51 -0800
From: Phil Kane <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be
aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

On 1/18/2021 6:10 AM, Steve Hall wrote:
> During my hamming of over 50 years, the FCC has never felt it necessary to
> threaten hams not to break the law, that is not until we have this new
> administration coming into control. My concern is what they will define
in
> the future as criminal acts.
That's because up to now it was unthinkable that licensed hams would use
amateur radio in the commission of crimes. The law and the enforcement
apparatus always was there, though, and was used without any publicity.
We're going through violent times now and it's sad that such a notice
had to be issued. Violators can't say that they weren't warned.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
(30 year veteran of FCC Field Enforcement)
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john@kk9a.com

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

In reply to this post by Steve Hall

He is a silent key, let him rest in peace.

John KK9A

Doug Faunt N6TQS wrote:

There was a case a while back where a ham had his license pulled because he
was convicted of telecom fraud.
IIRC, the FCC said it was evidence that he was unwilling to follow the
rules.
And I think it only came visible because he protested, or filed to get it
reinstated.
I suspect Phil can recall more details.
It's been a while.
73, doug

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Phil Kane-2

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

In reply to this post by Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197

On 1/18/2021 10:36 AM, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 wrote:

> There was a case a while back where a ham had his license pulled
> because he was convicted of telecom fraud. IIRC, the FCC said it was
> evidence that he was unwilling to follow the rules. And I think it
> only came visible because he protested, or filed to get it
> reinstated. I suspect Phil can recall more details. It's been a
> while.

For a while, the FCC declined to take action against criminal (like
"convicted") violators if the crime did not involve telecommunications
law. I don't remember the actual case that Doug mentioned other than it
wasn't one of mine :) but I do remember that there have been several.
For other violators, there is a provision in the Communications Act that
requires the FCC to determine if the conviction bears on the moral
qualifications to become or remain an FCC license holder, and there are
provisions in other statutes that bar someone from holding or receiving
a license if in arrears to court-mandated payments..

As far as the present situation, what the notice said (in plain
language) is using a radio while planning or committing a crime is a
crime itself. Has nothing to do with the content as long as it does not
involve planning or committing that criminal act. Yes, there are limits
to First-Amendment-protected speech. (Pardon me if I'm teaching
first-year Constitutional Law.)

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

On 2021-01-18 2:55 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

> For a while, the FCC declined to take action against criminal (like
> "convicted") violators if the crime did not involve
> telecommunications law. I don't remember the actual case that Doug
> mentioned other than it wasn't one of mine :)
Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ (sk).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2021-01-18 2:55 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

> On 1/18/2021 10:36 AM, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 wrote:
>
>> There was a case a while back where a ham had his license pulled
>> because he was convicted of telecom fraud. IIRC, the FCC said it was
>> evidence that he was unwilling to follow the rules. And I think it
>> only came visible because he protested, or filed to get it reinstated.
>> I suspect Phil can recall more details. It's been a
>> while.
>
> For a while, the FCC declined to take action against criminal (like
> "convicted") violators if the crime did not involve telecommunications
> law. I don't remember the actual case that Doug mentioned other than it
> wasn't one of mine :) but I do remember that there have been several.
> For other violators, there is a provision in the Communications Act that
> requires the FCC to determine if the conviction bears on the moral
> qualifications to become or remain an FCC license holder, and there are
> provisions in other statutes that bar someone from holding or receiving
> a license if in arrears to court-mandated payments..
>
> As far as the present situation, what the notice said (in plain
> language) is using a radio while planning or committing a crime is a
> crime itself. Has nothing to do with the content as long as it does not
> involve planning or committing that criminal act. Yes, there are limits
> to First-Amendment-protected speech. (Pardon me if I'm teaching
> first-year Constitutional Law.)
>
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
>
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
>

Ted Edwards W3TB

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

When I was in college during anti-war protests about 50 years ago,
protesters tried to pressure me to use the college station to coordinate
with other colleges.

They threatened to break into the station and do it themselves with my
callsign. I disconnected antennas, but I also knew that none of them knew
anything about it to do anything but break the equipment.

And nothing came of it.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 14:31 Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2021-01-18 2:55 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
>
> > For a while, the FCC declined to take action against criminal (like
> > "convicted") violators if the crime did not involve
> > telecommunications law. I don't remember the actual case that Doug
> > mentioned other than it wasn't one of mine :)
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ (sk).
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2021-01-18 2:55 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
> > On 1/18/2021 10:36 AM, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 wrote:
> >
> >> There was a case a while back where a ham had his license pulled
> >> because he was convicted of telecom fraud. IIRC, the FCC said it was
> >> evidence that he was unwilling to follow the rules. And I think it
> >> only came visible because he protested, or filed to get it reinstated.
> >> I suspect Phil can recall more details. It's been a
> >> while.
> >
> > For a while, the FCC declined to take action against criminal (like
> > "convicted") violators if the crime did not involve telecommunications
> > law. I don't remember the actual case that Doug mentioned other than it
> > wasn't one of mine :) but I do remember that there have been several.
> > For other violators, there is a provision in the Communications Act that
> > requires the FCC to determine if the conviction bears on the moral
> > qualifications to become or remain an FCC license holder, and there are
> > provisions in other statutes that bar someone from holding or receiving
> > a license if in arrears to court-mandated payments..
> >
> > As far as the present situation, what the notice said (in plain
> > language) is using a radio while planning or committing a crime is a
> > crime itself. Has nothing to do with the content as long as it does not
> > involve planning or committing that criminal act. Yes, there are limits
> > to First-Amendment-protected speech. (Pardon me if I'm teaching
> > first-year Constitutional Law.)
> >
> > 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> > Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
> >
> > From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> > Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW

and thinking about operating CW:
"Do today what others won't,
so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
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WW3S

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

Early 70s there was a Student Information net used to coordinate protests against the Vietnam War....colleges nationwide used it.....

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 18, 2021, at 5:59 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> When I was in college during anti-war protests about 50 years ago,
> protesters tried to pressure me to use the college station to coordinate
> with other colleges.
>
> They threatened to break into the station and do it themselves with my
> callsign. I disconnected antennas, but I also knew that none of them knew
> anything about it to do anything but break the equipment.
>
> And nothing came of it.
>
>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 14:31 Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-01-18 2:55 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
>>>
>>> For a while, the FCC declined to take action against criminal (like
>>> "convicted") violators if the crime did not involve
>>> telecommunications law. I don't remember the actual case that Doug
>>> mentioned other than it wasn't one of mine :)
>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ (sk).
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>>> On 2021-01-18 2:55 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/2021 10:36 AM, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 wrote:
>>>
>>>> There was a case a while back where a ham had his license pulled
>>>> because he was convicted of telecom fraud. IIRC, the FCC said it was
>>>> evidence that he was unwilling to follow the rules. And I think it
>>>> only came visible because he protested, or filed to get it reinstated.
>>>> I suspect Phil can recall more details. It's been a
>>>> while.
>>>
>>> For a while, the FCC declined to take action against criminal (like
>>> "convicted") violators if the crime did not involve telecommunications
>>> law. I don't remember the actual case that Doug mentioned other than it
>>> wasn't one of mine :) but I do remember that there have been several.
>>> For other violators, there is a provision in the Communications Act that
>>> requires the FCC to determine if the conviction bears on the moral
>>> qualifications to become or remain an FCC license holder, and there are
>>> provisions in other statutes that bar someone from holding or receiving
>>> a license if in arrears to court-mandated payments..
>>>
>>> As far as the present situation, what the notice said (in plain
>>> language) is using a radio while planning or committing a crime is a
>>> crime itself. Has nothing to do with the content as long as it does not
>>> involve planning or committing that criminal act. Yes, there are limits
>>> to First-Amendment-protected speech. (Pardon me if I'm teaching
>>> first-year Constitutional Law.)
>>>
>>> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
>>> Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
>>>
>>> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
>>> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> --
> 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW
>
> and thinking about operating CW:
> "Do today what others won't,
> so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

James Driskell

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

It's not illegal to protest whatever as long as one doesn't participate in criminal acts under the banner of the protest. Therefore, coordinating a protest using radio communications probably isn't a violation in itself.

73,

Jim Driskell
W7OWI

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of WW3S <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2021 15:13
To: Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

Early 70s there was a Student Information net used to coordinate protests against the Vietnam War....colleges nationwide used it.....

Sent from my iPad

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today [Thread CLOSED]

Administrator

As per my other post, this way OT thread is also closed.

73,
Eric
Moderator
elecraft.com
_..._

> On Jan 18, 2021, at 4:01 PM, James Driskell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It's not illegal to protest whatever as long as one doesn't participate in criminal acts under the banner of the protest. Therefore, coordinating a protest using radio communications probably isn't a violation in itself.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim Driskell
> W7OWI
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of WW3S <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2021 15:13
> To: Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today
>
> Early 70s there was a Student Information net used to coordinate protests against the Vietnam War....colleges nationwide used it.....
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 5:59 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> When I was in college during anti-war protests about 50 years ago,
>> protesters tried to pressure me to use the college station to coordinate
>> with other colleges.
>>
>> They threatened to break into the station and do it themselves with my
>> callsign. I disconnected antennas, but I also knew that none of them knew
>> anything about it to do anything but break the equipment.
>>
>> And nothing came of it.
>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 14:31 Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-01-18 2:55 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For a while, the FCC declined to take action against criminal (like
>>>> "convicted") violators if the crime did not involve
>>>> telecommunications law. I don't remember the actual case that Doug
>>>> mentioned other than it wasn't one of mine :)
>>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ (sk).
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2021-01-18 2:55 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
>>>>> On 1/18/2021 10:36 AM, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There was a case a while back where a ham had his license pulled
>>>>> because he was convicted of telecom fraud. IIRC, the FCC said it was
>>>>> evidence that he was unwilling to follow the rules. And I think it
>>>>> only came visible because he protested, or filed to get it reinstated.
>>>>> I suspect Phil can recall more details. It's been a
>>>>> while.
>>>>
>>>> For a while, the FCC declined to take action against criminal (like
>>>> "convicted") violators if the crime did not involve telecommunications
>>>> law. I don't remember the actual case that Doug mentioned other than it
>>>> wasn't one of mine :) but I do remember that there have been several.
>>>> For other violators, there is a provision in the Communications Act that
>>>> requires the FCC to determine if the conviction bears on the moral
>>>> qualifications to become or remain an FCC license holder, and there are
>>>> provisions in other statutes that bar someone from holding or receiving
>>>> a license if in arrears to court-mandated payments..
>>>>
>>>> As far as the present situation, what the notice said (in plain
>>>> language) is using a radio while planning or committing a crime is a
>>>> crime itself. Has nothing to do with the content as long as it does not
>>>> involve planning or committing that criminal act. Yes, there are limits
>>>> to First-Amendment-protected speech. (Pardon me if I'm teaching
>>>> first-year Constitutional Law.)
>>>>
>>>> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
>>>> Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
>>>>
>>>> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
>>>> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> --
>> 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW
>>
>> and thinking about operating CW:
>> "Do today what others won't,
>> so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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n0uk

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

Spot on,Phil.

Chris Cox, N0UK
[hidden email]

> On Jan 18, 2021, at 12:07 PM, Phil Kane <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 1/18/2021 6:10 AM, Steve Hall wrote:
>
>> During my hamming of over 50 years, the FCC has never felt it necessary to
>> threaten hams not to break the law, that is not until we have this new
>> administration coming into control. My concern is what they will define in
>> the future as criminal acts.
>
> That's because up to now it was unthinkable that licensed hams would use amateur radio in the commission of crimes. The law and the enforcement apparatus always was there, though, and was used without any publicity. We're going through violent times now and it's sad that such a notice had to be issued. Violators can't say that they weren't warned.
>
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
> (30 year veteran of FCC Field Enforcement)
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Subject: Waaay OT: A new kind of QRM to be aware of ... warning issued by FCC today

Administrator

This thread has already been closed. Please post no more messages on this
topic.
73,
Eric WA6HHQ
*elecraft.com <http://elecraft.com>*

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 6:35 PM Chris Cox, N0UK <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Spot on,Phil.
>
> Chris Cox, N0UK
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> > On Jan 18, 2021, at 12:07 PM, Phil Kane <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On 1/18/2021 6:10 AM, Steve Hall wrote:
> >
> >> During my hamming of over 50 years, the FCC has never felt it necessary
> to
> >> threaten hams not to break the law, that is not until we have this new
> >> administration coming into control. My concern is what they will
> define in
> >> the future as criminal acts.
> >
> > That's because up to now it was unthinkable that licensed hams would use
> amateur radio in the commission of crimes. The law and the enforcement
> apparatus always was there, though, and was used without any publicity.
> We're going through violent times now and it's sad that such a notice had
> to be issued. Violators can't say that they weren't warned.
> >
> > 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> > Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
> > (30 year veteran of FCC Field Enforcement)
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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