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Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

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Dan Sherwood

Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

All,

After building and installing a new P3 pan adapter on a relatively new K3, I
notice the AGC fast or slow setting would suddenly shut off, accompanied by
a loud, distorted blast of signal audio. Normal AGC function is
re-established by holding the AGC button, then tapping to select fast or
slow. That would happen after a random period of time after power up and
sitting on a frequency, (several minutes to an hour).

I did not notice this issue before the P3 was plugged into the rig. I¹ve
run the K3 over a week, including through the CQP contest and never noticed
this issue before. Not sure if this is a software glitch or what. With a
Heil Pro Set on, it is painful since it is unexpected, resulting in my
rapidly and forcibly removing the Heil Pro Set from my head!

At the time, the P3 was also connected to a PC running HRD v5.0. No
specific commands issued to HRD at the times of the AGC pop-off. I was not
transmitting at the time it occurred either, (RF not an issue).

I have the P3 right up against the right side of the K3 with only a few mm
separation afforded by the rubber feet on the K3. I notice the K3 case is
hotter there, as the voltage regulators are attached internally to the case.
Should I allow some space for cooling there?

Any ideas?

73,

Dan Sherwood
WA6PZK

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David Honey

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

Dan,

This is a known issue with HRD used with the K3. It happens with me a
few times a week with my K3+P3. Reducing the polling rate of the K3 in
HRD may reduce the frequency of this issue, but it won't eliminate it.
The choice seems to be either put up it, or stop using HRD. Simon Brown
has handed over the reins of HRD development, so perhaps the new team
can devote some time to investigating and fixing this.

vy 73 de David M0DHO
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

In reply to this post by Dan Sherwood

Dan,

As David indicated, this is caused by HRD. Nothing wrong in the K3 or
P3 at all.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/8/2011 4:51 AM, Dan Sherwood wrote:

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

In reply to this post by Dan Sherwood

> At the time, the P3 was also connected to a PC running HRD v5.0. No
> specific commands issued to HRD at the times of the AGC pop-off. I
> was not transmitting at the time it occurred either, (RF not an
> issue).

As indicated by others, this is an issue with overpolling by HRD. HRD
enables the *K2* extended response mode and then polls for AGC status
*three times in succession* with no lag between the response to one
poll and the next poll regardless of the "Refresh Interval" set in the
HRD Options.

It appears that the slight delay in data through the P3 and the poor
programming in HRD combine, perhaps with noise, to generate a false
"AGC OFF" command. One known "work around" (although with side effects
of its own) is to use LP-Bridge as a buffer between HRD and the K3.
LP-Bridge answers many of HRDs polls from its own cache and reduces
the excessive of the K3/P3.

Note - "GT;" is not the only "duplicated" poll issued by HRD. In
addition to polling for AGC three times, HRD polls for both VFOs
(FA;/FB;) twice, selected transmit VFO (FT;) twice, Bandwidth (FW;)
*five* times, Antenna selection (AN;) twice, and Power level (PC;)
twice!

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 10/8/2011 4:51 AM, Dan Sherwood wrote:

> All,
>
> After building and installing a new P3 pan adapter on a relatively new K3, I
> notice the AGC fast or slow setting would suddenly shut off, accompanied by
> a loud, distorted blast of signal audio. Normal AGC function is
> re-established by holding the AGC button, then tapping to select fast or
> slow. That would happen after a random period of time after power up and
> sitting on a frequency, (several minutes to an hour).
>
> I did not notice this issue before the P3 was plugged into the rig. I¹ve
> run the K3 over a week, including through the CQP contest and never noticed
> this issue before. Not sure if this is a software glitch or what. With a
> Heil Pro Set on, it is painful since it is unexpected, resulting in my
> rapidly and forcibly removing the Heil Pro Set from my head!
>
> At the time, the P3 was also connected to a PC running HRD v5.0. No
> specific commands issued to HRD at the times of the AGC pop-off. I was not
> transmitting at the time it occurred either, (RF not an issue).
>
> I have the P3 right up against the right side of the K3 with only a few mm
> separation afforded by the rubber feet on the K3. I notice the K3 case is
> hotter there, as the voltage regulators are attached internally to the case.
> Should I allow some space for cooling there?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> 73,
>
> Dan Sherwood
> WA6PZK
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Dan Sherwood

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

Joe,

That's certainly a plausible explanation. We ran MM logger all last weekend
during the CQP without problems, (P3 not built yet). I had no issue with
HRD earlier yesterday, until later at night when I switched to 40 and 80
meters looking for few signals through heavy static crashes. With all the
AGC pumping going on is when I had these problems. Have the K3/P3 running
all morning w/o HRD. No problems.

I'm looking at the LP bridge website now. Thanks for the suggestion.

73,

Dan
WA6PZK

On 10/8/11 6:29 AM, "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> At the time, the P3 was also connected to a PC running HRD v5.0. No
>> specific commands issued to HRD at the times of the AGC pop-off. I
>> was not transmitting at the time it occurred either, (RF not an
>> issue).
>
> As indicated by others, this is an issue with overpolling by HRD. HRD
> enables the *K2* extended response mode and then polls for AGC status
> *three times in succession* with no lag between the response to one
> poll and the next poll regardless of the "Refresh Interval" set in the
> HRD Options.
>
> It appears that the slight delay in data through the P3 and the poor
> programming in HRD combine, perhaps with noise, to generate a false
> "AGC OFF" command. One known "work around" (although with side effects
> of its own) is to use LP-Bridge as a buffer between HRD and the K3.
> LP-Bridge answers many of HRDs polls from its own cache and reduces
> the excessive of the K3/P3.
>
> Note - "GT;" is not the only "duplicated" poll issued by HRD. In
> addition to polling for AGC three times, HRD polls for both VFOs
> (FA;/FB;) twice, selected transmit VFO (FT;) twice, Bandwidth (FW;)
> *five* times, Antenna selection (AN;) twice, and Power level (PC;)
> twice!
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 10/8/2011 4:51 AM, Dan Sherwood wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> After building and installing a new P3 pan adapter on a relatively new K3, I
>> notice the AGC fast or slow setting would suddenly shut off, accompanied by
>> a loud, distorted blast of signal audio. Normal AGC function is
>> re-established by holding the AGC button, then tapping to select fast or
>> slow. That would happen after a random period of time after power up and
>> sitting on a frequency, (several minutes to an hour).
>>
>> I did not notice this issue before the P3 was plugged into the rig. I¹ve
>> run the K3 over a week, including through the CQP contest and never noticed
>> this issue before. Not sure if this is a software glitch or what. With a
>> Heil Pro Set on, it is painful since it is unexpected, resulting in my
>> rapidly and forcibly removing the Heil Pro Set from my head!
>>
>> At the time, the P3 was also connected to a PC running HRD v5.0. No
>> specific commands issued to HRD at the times of the AGC pop-off. I was not
>> transmitting at the time it occurred either, (RF not an issue).
>>
>> I have the P3 right up against the right side of the K3 with only a few mm
>> separation afforded by the rubber feet on the K3. I notice the K3 case is
>> hotter there, as the voltage regulators are attached internally to the case.
>> Should I allow some space for cooling there?
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Dan Sherwood
>> WA6PZK
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>

N5NA

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

In reply to this post by Dan Sherwood

This is a problem not only for HRD but any software in which the AGC
status is polled continuously. I frequently use CQ/X by NO5W and had
the same problem. Chuck turned off the AGC polling in CQ/X and the
problem no longer occurs. Of course, now the AGC status can't be shown
in his remote interface.

I sent Wayne, N6KR, a couple of log files from portmon back in July
showing what was happening but so far I haven't seen any updates on this.

73, Alan N5NA

> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 39
> Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 10:11:21 +0100
> From: David Honey<[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3
> To:[hidden email]
> Message-ID:<[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Dan,
>
> This is a known issue with HRD used with the K3. It happens with me a
> few times a week with my K3+P3. Reducing the polling rate of the K3 in
> HRD may reduce the frequency of this issue, but it won't eliminate it.
> The choice seems to be either put up it, or stop using HRD. Simon Brown
> has handed over the reins of HRD development, so perhaps the new team
> can devote some time to investigating and fixing this.
>
> vy 73 de David M0DHO
>
>
> ------------------------------

Guy, K2AV

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

The real deal would be why the over-polling is necessary in the first place.
I'd guess it's done to service ALL the different rig types (not just
Elecraft and K3) with a single strip of code, instead of pushing those
constants at program startup based on the target or configured hardware.

If it's not cheep code, then it's certainly not state of the art, nor at all
close. One always should have a constants library which carries the array
of values necessary to drive any hardware timing sensitive code.

Where I worked at my last TWO places of employment, going back to an AT&T
school in 1976 (!), embedding target-variable constants in program code and
using code switches would get your code summarily rejected by a reviewer or
auditor, subject one to an auditor approved redesign and recode (with prior
effort flushed down the turlet), and have an effect on one's pay grade.
There was a brutal "standards are just that" attitude. Putting in the table
driven code costs some in the beginning, but saves huge in maintenance, and
a maze of switches eventually means recoding in its entirety.

That's probably what we're really fighting with the HRD code. Otherwise it's
a simple table change that gets done in seconds, and then recompiled.

73, Guy.

On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Alan Sewell N5NA <[hidden email]>wrote:

> This is a problem not only for HRD but any software in which the AGC
> status is polled continuously. I frequently use CQ/X by NO5W and had
> the same problem. Chuck turned off the AGC polling in CQ/X and the
> problem no longer occurs. Of course, now the AGC status can't be shown
> in his remote interface.
>
> I sent Wayne, N6KR, a couple of log files from portmon back in July
> showing what was happening but so far I haven't seen any updates on this.
>
> 73, Alan N5NA
>
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 39
> > Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 10:11:21 +0100
> > From: David Honey<[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3
> > To:[hidden email]
> > Message-ID:<[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > This is a known issue with HRD used with the K3. It happens with me a
> > few times a week with my K3+P3. Reducing the polling rate of the K3 in
> > HRD may reduce the frequency of this issue, but it won't eliminate it.
> > The choice seems to be either put up it, or stop using HRD. Simon Brown
> > has handed over the reins of HRD development, so perhaps the new team
> > can devote some time to investigating and fixing this.
> >
> > vy 73 de David M0DHO
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

N5GE

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

Spot on Guy.

I ran into that mentality when working for a well known defense contractor on
the 80's and 90's. They passed me two years in a row when raise time came
because I was doing it. My bossett had no understanding of look up tables or
even struct's in C language.

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 13:29:56 -0400, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>The real deal would be why the over-polling is necessary in the first place.
> I'd guess it's done to service ALL the different rig types (not just
>Elecraft and K3) with a single strip of code, instead of pushing those
>constants at program startup based on the target or configured hardware.
>
>If it's not cheep code, then it's certainly not state of the art, nor at all
>close. One always should have a constants library which carries the array
>of values necessary to drive any hardware timing sensitive code.
>
>Where I worked at my last TWO places of employment, going back to an AT&T
>school in 1976 (!), embedding target-variable constants in program code and
>using code switches would get your code summarily rejected by a reviewer or
>auditor, subject one to an auditor approved redesign and recode (with prior
>effort flushed down the turlet), and have an effect on one's pay grade.
>There was a brutal "standards are just that" attitude. Putting in the table
>driven code costs some in the beginning, but saves huge in maintenance, and
>a maze of switches eventually means recoding in its entirety.
>
>That's probably what we're really fighting with the HRD code. Otherwise it's
>a simple table change that gets done in seconds, and then recompiled.
>
>73, Guy.
>
>On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Alan Sewell N5NA <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> This is a problem not only for HRD but any software in which the AGC
>> status is polled continuously. I frequently use CQ/X by NO5W and had
>> the same problem. Chuck turned off the AGC polling in CQ/X and the
>> problem no longer occurs. Of course, now the AGC status can't be shown
>> in his remote interface.
>>
>> I sent Wayne, N6KR, a couple of log files from portmon back in July
>> showing what was happening but so far I haven't seen any updates on this.
>>
>> 73, Alan N5NA
>>
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 39
>> > Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 10:11:21 +0100
>> > From: David Honey<[hidden email]>
>> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3
>> > To:[hidden email]
>> > Message-ID:<[hidden email]>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> >
>> > Dan,
>> >
>> > This is a known issue with HRD used with the K3. It happens with me a
>> > few times a week with my K3+P3. Reducing the polling rate of the K3 in
>> > HRD may reduce the frequency of this issue, but it won't eliminate it.
>> > The choice seems to be either put up it, or stop using HRD. Simon Brown
>> > has handed over the reins of HRD development, so perhaps the new team
>> > can devote some time to investigating and fixing this.
>> >
>> > vy 73 de David M0DHO
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

N5NA

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

I'm not a programmer nor do I play one on TV. I'm just an observer.

Why should polling the AGC randomly turn it off on the K3? None of the
other parameters that are polled at the same frequency are adversely
affected, only the AGC.

AGC should be able to be polled without it turning off.

Alan

On 10/8/2011 12:29 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> The real deal would be why the over-polling is necessary in the first
> place. I'd guess it's done to service ALL the different rig types
> (not just Elecraft and K3) with a single strip of code, instead of
> pushing those constants at program startup based on the target or
> configured hardware.
>
> If it's not cheep code, then it's certainly not state of the art, nor
> at all close. One always should have a constants library which
> carries the array of values necessary to drive any hardware timing
> sensitive code.
>
> Where I worked at my last TWO places of employment, going back to an
> AT&T school in 1976 (!), embedding target-variable constants in
> program code and using code switches would get your code summarily
> rejected by a reviewer or auditor, subject one to an auditor approved
> redesign and recode (with prior effort flushed down the turlet), and
> have an effect on one's pay grade. There was a brutal "standards are
> just that" attitude. Putting in the table driven code costs some in
> the beginning, but saves huge in maintenance, and a maze of switches
> eventually means recoding in its entirety.
>
> That's probably what we're really fighting with the HRD code.
> Otherwise it's a simple table change that gets done in seconds, and
> then recompiled.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Alan Sewell N5NA <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> This is a problem not only for HRD but any software in which the AGC
> status is polled continuously. I frequently use CQ/X by NO5W and had
> the same problem. Chuck turned off the AGC polling in CQ/X and the
> problem no longer occurs. Of course, now the AGC status can't be
> shown
> in his remote interface.
>
> I sent Wayne, N6KR, a couple of log files from portmon back in July
> showing what was happening but so far I haven't seen any updates
> on this.
>
> 73, Alan N5NA
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

> Why should polling the AGC randomly turn it off on the K3?

Because HRD uses the *K22* mode. If HRD would use the K3 commands
and not enable the K2 extended command set, the GT command would
require an explicit off command.

What appears to happen is a data clash between HRD and the P3 ...
P3 data or an echo gets appended to the the GT; poll to the K3.
The the corrupted data is "just right" AGC is turned off.

Why does HRD use an old command set and why does it poll for AGC
status *THREE TIMES*? Polling for the same data three times in
31 milliseconds is stupid, sloppy, and increases the chance of
false triggering exponentially.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 10/8/2011 2:54 PM, Alan Sewell N5NA wrote:

> I'm not a programmer nor do I play one on TV. I'm just an observer.
>
> Why should polling the AGC randomly turn it off on the K3? None of the
> other parameters that are polled at the same frequency are adversely
> affected, only the AGC.
>
> AGC should be able to be polled without it turning off.
>
> Alan
>
>
> On 10/8/2011 12:29 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>> The real deal would be why the over-polling is necessary in the first
>> place. I'd guess it's done to service ALL the different rig types
>> (not just Elecraft and K3) with a single strip of code, instead of
>> pushing those constants at program startup based on the target or
>> configured hardware.
>>
>> If it's not cheep code, then it's certainly not state of the art, nor
>> at all close. One always should have a constants library which
>> carries the array of values necessary to drive any hardware timing
>> sensitive code.
>>
>> Where I worked at my last TWO places of employment, going back to an
>> AT&T school in 1976 (!), embedding target-variable constants in
>> program code and using code switches would get your code summarily
>> rejected by a reviewer or auditor, subject one to an auditor approved
>> redesign and recode (with prior effort flushed down the turlet), and
>> have an effect on one's pay grade. There was a brutal "standards are
>> just that" attitude. Putting in the table driven code costs some in
>> the beginning, but saves huge in maintenance, and a maze of switches
>> eventually means recoding in its entirety.
>>
>> That's probably what we're really fighting with the HRD code.
>> Otherwise it's a simple table change that gets done in seconds, and
>> then recompiled.
>>
>> 73, Guy.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Alan Sewell N5NA<[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> This is a problem not only for HRD but any software in which the AGC
>> status is polled continuously. I frequently use CQ/X by NO5W and had
>> the same problem. Chuck turned off the AGC polling in CQ/X and the
>> problem no longer occurs. Of course, now the AGC status can't be
>> shown
>> in his remote interface.
>>
>> I sent Wayne, N6KR, a couple of log files from portmon back in July
>> showing what was happening but so far I haven't seen any updates
>> on this.
>>
>> 73, Alan N5NA
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

ab2tc

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

Hi,

I think part of the problem is that HRD's author purchased an early K3, soured rather quickly on it and sold it again before many early firmware shortcomings in the serial communications area were ironed out. Hopefully the new owners of HRD will add full support for the current state of the K3 firmware.

AB2TC - Knut

Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote

> Why should polling the AGC randomly turn it off on the K3?

Because HRD uses the *K22* mode. If HRD would use the K3 commands
and not enable the K2 extended command set, the GT command would
require an explicit off command.

What appears to happen is a data clash between HRD and the P3 ...
P3 data or an echo gets appended to the the GT; poll to the K3.
The the corrupted data is "just right" AGC is turned off.

Why does HRD use an old command set and why does it poll for AGC
status *THREE TIMES*? Polling for the same data three times in
31 milliseconds is stupid, sloppy, and increases the chance of
false triggering exponentially.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

<snip>

Stephen G4SJP

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

That's a pretty fair analysis Knut I think. I listened to a lecture by
Simon of HRD fame yesterday morning (at the RSGB Convention) and it's very
clear that Simon, by his own admission, much prefers the computer controlled
big screen route and abhors multifunction buttons on transceivers such as
the K3. Incidentally, although Simon's lecture was principally concerned
with his work with RFSpace (which was very interesting indeed if you are
into 'pure' SDR), he remains very complimentary about the K3's receive
performance. It's beginning to look as if the more advanced RFSpace
offerings will give the K3 a good run for its money in receive performance
terms, but from my perspective, I'm afraid it's got to have knobs on!

73 Stephen G4SJP

On 9 October 2011 20:35, ab2tc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think part of the problem is that HRD's author purchased an early K3,
> soured rather quickly on it and sold it again before many early firmware
> shortcomings in the serial communications area were ironed out. Hopefully
> the new owners of HRD will add full support for the current state of the K3
> firmware.
>
> AB2TC - Knut
>
>
>
> Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
> >
> >> Why should polling the AGC randomly turn it off on the K3?
> >
> > Because HRD uses the *K22* mode. If HRD would use the K3 commands
> > and not enable the K2 extended command set, the GT command would
> > require an explicit off command.
> >
> > What appears to happen is a data clash between HRD and the P3 ...
> > P3 data or an echo gets appended to the the GT; poll to the K3.
> > The the corrupted data is "just right" AGC is turned off.
> >
> > Why does HRD use an old command set and why does it poll for AGC
> > status *THREE TIMES*? Polling for the same data three times in
> > 31 milliseconds is stupid, sloppy, and increases the chance of
> > false triggering exponentially.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > ... Joe, W4TV
> >
> > <snip>
> >
>
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Tony Estep

Re: Sudden K3 AGC pop-off after adding P3

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Stephen Prior <[hidden email]>wrote:

> .... the more advanced RFSpace
> offerings will give the K3 a good run for its money in receive performance
> terms, but from my perspective, I'm afraid it's got to have knobs on!
>

========
It's been observed by many on this reflector and elsewhere that the quality
of programming of ham software has not come up to equal the quality of
hardware design. I think this criticism is pretty valid. Moreover I don't
see why there is any magic to having a PC do demodulation and DSP, tasks
that are really better suited to dedicated CPU and DSP chips inside the
radio. I've tried it both ways and I agree with Stephen about the knobs.
IMHO, the KX3 design makes a heck of a lot more sense than a knobless image
on a computer that you operate with a mouse. The ideal combo would be a
knob-equipped radio that put out I-Q directly to a PC program that put up a
clickable panadapter, just like the setup you get by using LP-Pan with a K3
except that the LP-Pan function would be brought onboard the radio -- as it
is in the KX3.

73, Tony KT0NY

--
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