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Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

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TF3KX

Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

Hi - I know this is very remotely related to Elecraft, but good advice is never in short supply in this group...

Here in Iceland the requirement for knowledge of CW is no longer required for amateur HF licenses - a trend that we see in most countries nowadays.

Still, I am interested in establishing CW courses for those new amateurs who may want to learn CW, and I am seeking advice from those of you who have experience. For example...

- General suggestions for methods (Koch, etc.)
- Software and other tools for class teaching and individual practice between classes
- Teaching methodologies and approaches (frequency of classes, length, character groups,...)
- Other activities to support and encourage (kit building, on-air sessions,..)

73 - Kristinn, TF3KX

Alan Bloom

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

On Fri, 2009-05-08 at 10:38 -0700, TF3KX wrote:

> ... I am interested in establishing CW courses for those new amateurs who
> may want to learn CW, and I am seeking advice from those of you who have
> experience. For example...
>
> - General suggestions for methods (Koch, etc.)

The most important advice is that the student must study every day, even
if only for a few minutes. 10 minutes per day, every day, is much
better than 70 minutes once per week.

> - Software and other tools for class teaching and individual practice
> between classes
> - Teaching methodologies and approaches (frequency of classes, length,
> character groups,...)

Most classes I have been involved with meet once or twice a week. But
that is not sufficient to learn the code - the students must practice at
home every day. (See above comment.)

More than 20-30 minutes of time spent receiving in a single session is
not very useful. The mind tires too quickly.

It is helpful to have the students spend some time sending to each
other, one-on-one. It makes the class more interesting as well as
giving practice sending.

> - Other activities to support and encourage (kit building, on-air
> sessions,..)

On-the-air practice is fun and motivating, but wait until the students
have a firm grasp of all the required code characters. Otherwise it is
too frustrating for them.

> 73 - Kristinn, TF3KX

Al N1AL

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David Cutter

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

I agree with Alan and will add to ignore the advice I have seen in some
manuals that tell you not to start sending until you can receive at such and
such speed. In my experience, it's better to start sending straight away
with a tutor to correct the sending right from the start - you must not get
into bad habits. This helps reinforce the code in your mind.

I've heard that the Koch method works, but I have no direct experience of
it. I know the Farnsworth method of sending/receiving characters about
twice as fast as the average, with longer gaps is very helpful. It gives
the receiving student a longer space to recall the character and is thus
less frustrating. Avoid frustration.

I learnt character formation by sending at the same time as receiving a
repeating group over and over.

David
G3UNA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Bloom" <[hidden email]>
To: "TF3KX" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [OT] Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

> On Fri, 2009-05-08 at 10:38 -0700, TF3KX wrote:
>
>> ... I am interested in establishing CW courses for those new amateurs who
>> may want to learn CW, and I am seeking advice from those of you who have
>> experience. For example...
>>
>> - General suggestions for methods (Koch, etc.)
>
> The most important advice is that the student must study every day, even
> if only for a few minutes. 10 minutes per day, every day, is much
> better than 70 minutes once per week.
>
>> - Software and other tools for class teaching and individual practice
>> between classes
>> - Teaching methodologies and approaches (frequency of classes, length,
>> character groups,...)
>
> Most classes I have been involved with meet once or twice a week. But
> that is not sufficient to learn the code - the students must practice at
> home every day. (See above comment.)
>
> More than 20-30 minutes of time spent receiving in a single session is
> not very useful. The mind tires too quickly.
>
> It is helpful to have the students spend some time sending to each
> other, one-on-one. It makes the class more interesting as well as
> giving practice sending.
>
>> - Other activities to support and encourage (kit building, on-air
>> sessions,..)
>
> On-the-air practice is fun and motivating, but wait until the students
> have a firm grasp of all the required code characters. Otherwise it is
> too frustrating for them.
>
>> 73 - Kristinn, TF3KX
>
> Al N1AL
>

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by TF3KX

Kristen,

Take a serious look at the K7QO Code Course. Chuck is a master at high
speed CW, and his code course can be downloaded from
http://www.k7qo.net/ - these are .iso images that can be used to make
CDs for everyone in the class.

The code is learned by sound - no other method should be used,
especially no visual aids.
Students must practice each day for a short session.
Chuck's method is to "burn the sound into the brain" until it is
recognized just like another language.

The method is good for beginners and also for those who know CW to break
old habits and increase speed.

Now, if I could just get started on it again and stick with it every
day, my CW would improve. It takes determination and the willingness to
'stick it out'.

73,
Don W3FPR

TF3KX wrote:

> Hi - I know this is very remotely related to Elecraft, but good advice is
> never in short supply in this group...
>
> Here in Iceland the requirement for knowledge of CW is no longer required
> for amateur HF licenses - a trend that we see in most countries nowadays.
>
> Still, I am interested in establishing CW courses for those new amateurs who
> may want to learn CW, and I am seeking advice from those of you who have
> experience. For example...
>
> - General suggestions for methods (Koch, etc.)
> - Software and other tools for class teaching and individual practice
> between classes
> - Teaching methodologies and approaches (frequency of classes, length,
> character groups,...)
> - Other activities to support and encourage (kit building, on-air
> sessions,..)
>
> 73 - Kristinn, TF3KX
>
>

Brendan Minish

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by David Cutter

On Fri, 2009-05-08 at 19:42 +0100, David Cutter wrote:

>
> I've heard that the Koch method works, but I have no direct experience of
> it. I know the Farnsworth method of sending/receiving characters about
> twice as fast as the average, with longer gaps is very helpful. It gives
> the receiving student a longer space to recall the character and is thus
> less frustrating. Avoid frustration.

I learned using the farnsworth method, it worked but it did create
serious hurdles for me as I worked over the years to build speed and I
wish I had been aware of the Koch method at the time I was learning

I have worked with several students over the years with the Kooch
method, it requires more discipline in the beginning and is best suited
to 1 on 1 training with a PC
It's a fast and very effective way to learn CW. I would recommend it
highly to those wishing to learn CW for the purposes of actually using
it on air.

The Art & Skill of Radio Telegraphy is a 'Must read' both for students
and tutors. It's available on line here

http://www.qsl.net/n9bor/n0hff.htm

My friend Fabian DJ1YFK has put together a truly excellent on line CW
course based on the Koch method over at
http://www.lcwo.net/

Fabian is a K2 owner and is a (Very) high speed operator
http://www.youtube.com/user/dj1yfk
http://fkurz.net/ham/qrq.html

73
Brendan EI6IZ (not a very high speed op!)

--
Don‘t complain. Nobody will understand. Or care. And certainly don‘t try
to fix the situation yourself. It‘s dangerous. Leave it to a highly
untrained, unqualified, expendable professional.

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Ron NA9F

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by TF3KX

Still, I am interested in establishing CW courses for those new amateurs who may want to learn CW, and I am seeking advice from those of you who have experience. For example...

- General suggestions for methods (Koch, etc.)
- Software and other tools for class teaching and individual practice between classes
- Teaching methodologies and approaches (frequency of classes, length, character groups,...)
- Other activities to support and encourage (kit building, on-air sessions,..)

73 - Kristinn, TF3KX

It is all in training the mind, you can not do it reading a book. The mind has to hear the sounds and soon will not require thinking about what character that sound related to. Faster cw brings about hearing words not characters. If you stay at the speed you are comfortable with you will remain at that speed, if you push to a higher speed your mind will adjust. CW at slow speed, 1-20 wpm makes my mind work hard now.

Short sessions were best for me.

I learned a few characters, at about 5 wpm, at a time in groups of five which made up words.

We speeded these words up to 25 wpm as we learned them.

Sending as I learned the characters was very helpful, but, make them learn clean sending with spaces.

After learning the letters, do the numbers in same fashion.

Have students ask, in cw, different questions.

Pre recorded sessions was helpful.

Ron NA9F

N5GE

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by David Cutter

On Fri, 8 May 2009 19:42:19 +0100, "David Cutter"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>I agree with Alan and will add to ignore the advice I have seen in some
>manuals that tell you not to start sending until you can receive at such and
>such speed. In my experience, it's better to start sending straight away
>with a tutor to correct the sending right from the start - you must not get
>into bad habits. This helps reinforce the code in your mind.

Good advice, David. Learning CW is not just about learning to copy
it, it's also about learning to send it correctly. That too takes
practice and makes you think about how characters sound.

>
>I've heard that the Koch method works, but I have no direct experience of
>it. I know the Farnsworth method of sending/receiving characters about
>twice as fast as the average, with longer gaps is very helpful. It gives
>the receiving student a longer space to recall the character and is thus
>less frustrating. Avoid frustration.

When tuning across the bands you can find the folks who learned to
copy by listening to Farnsworth tapes. They are the ones that send 30
wpm characters at 10 wpm character and word spacing. If you teach
copying with the Farnsworth method, please teach them to send good 1:3
ratio spacing.

>I learnt character formation by sending at the same time as receiving a
>repeating group over and over.
>

That's a good method, David!

>David
>G3UNA
>
[snip]

One more comment in support of using CW:

Using CW in weak signal copy conditions gives one a 10 dB advantage of
being copied at the other end. You will find this to be especially
true from 6m up. So, if you mostly like VHF/UHF communication CW is a
good thing to have in your bag of tricks.

Tom, N5GE
K3 #806, K3 #1055
XV144, XV432
W1 and other small kits.
http://www.n5ge.com

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

drewko

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by TF3KX

I have no experience teaching Morse Code, but I did learn it very
quickly from some old US Army Signal Corps records. I have uploaded
these recordings to Internet Archive:

<http://www.archive.org/details/U.S._Armed_Forces_Institute_Basic_Radio_Code_ca1942>

They are quite primitive, but maybe someone will find them useful as I
did.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Fri, 08 May 2009 10:38:47 -0700 (PDT), Kristinn, TF3KX wrote:

Jed Petrovich

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by TF3KX

Kristinn:

First of all, I would agree with the comments from the others who have
responded to this message. Specifically, daily practice, in short sessions,
is best.

I'm am a fairly new ham, having been licensed since 2005. Just as I was
starting to learn CW, I was directed to information on the Koch method and
comments by Dave Finley, N1IRZ: http://www.qsl.net/n1irz/finley.morse.html

At the time, there was still a 5 wpm code requirement for the General
license class. However, I knew I wanted to develop a skill and not just pass
an exam. So, I started practicing at a full 15 wpm. The Koch method focuses
on instant recognition. While it may not be the fastest method, I feel it
has worked well for me.

There are also several computer programs based on the Koch method. One is
from G4FON at www.g4fon.net.

Jed
AD7KG

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM, TF3KX <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi - I know this is very remotely related to Elecraft, but good advice is
> never in short supply in this group...
>
> Here in Iceland the requirement for knowledge of CW is no longer required
> for amateur HF licenses - a trend that we see in most countries nowadays.
>
> Still, I am interested in establishing CW courses for those new amateurs
> who
> may want to learn CW, and I am seeking advice from those of you who have
> experience. For example...
>
> - General suggestions for methods (Koch, etc.)
> - Software and other tools for class teaching and individual practice
> between classes
> - Teaching methodologies and approaches (frequency of classes, length,
> character groups,...)
> - Other activities to support and encourage (kit building, on-air
> sessions,..)
>
> 73 - Kristinn, TF3KX
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/Suggested-techniques-for-teaching-CW--tp2846635p2846635.html
> Sent from the [OT] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

ac0h

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by Brendan Minish

Ditto everything Brendan wrote.

The Farnsworth method is fine for learning enough CW to pass a test,
which we don't have any longer, but the beauty of the Koch method is you
learn the characters at full speed and properly spaced. You learn two
characters to start and only start adding characters when you've
mastered (better than 95% copy) the previous characters. If your
students are really serious about learning and using morse I'd suggest a
minimum starting speed of 20 wpm.

You can use Fabian's web based trainer or have the students download and
install the G4FON Koch Trainer (Google it).

One session per night receiving with the Koch trainer and sending for a
couple months and you've got a bunch of folks who will be able to get on
the air, use, and enjoy morse.

GL and 73

Kevin, ACØH

Brendan Minish wrote:
> I learned using the farnsworth method, it worked but it did create
> serious hurdles for me as I worked over the years to build speed and I
> wish I had been aware of the Koch method at the time I was learning
>
> I have worked with several students over the years with the Kooch
> method, it requires more discipline in the beginning and is best suited to 1 on 1 training with a PC.

> It's a fast and very effective way to learn CW. I would recommend ithighly to those wishing to learn CW for the purposes of actually using it on air.
>
> The Art & Skill of Radio Telegraphy is a 'Must read' both for students
> and tutors. It's available on line here
>
> http://www.qsl.net/n9bor/n0hff.htm
>
> My friend Fabian DJ1YFK has put together a truly excellent on line CW
> course based on the Koch method over at
> http://www.lcwo.net/
>
> Fabian is a K2 owner and is a (Very) high speed operator
> http://www.youtube.com/user/dj1yfk
> http://fkurz.net/ham/qrq.html
>
> 73
> Brendan EI6IZ (not a very high speed op!)

AC7AC

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by drewko

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

GM0ELP

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by TF3KX

Hi,
I find that most people who already know cw forget the part where you simply have to memorise the code. All the methods discussed so far come after this hurdle. I found that grouping can help i.e. eish, tmo, 12345, 67890, ndb, auv, kr, qy,px.. etc. Once the code can be recalled by association/grouping/acronyms or other techniques, simple mind games can be played during everyday life, such as :

1) running through the alphabet in code from start to finish
2) translating car registration nos whilst in traffic
3) translating text (papers, adverts etc)

Having to put aside time especially for CW practice isn't necessary, simple mind practice during everyday life when you are stuck in the 'slow lane' is enough to get you started. When you feel you've hit a wall in terms of recall speed, THEN it's time to look at other methods.

Doug GM0ELP

dave.wilburn

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by TF3KX

I'm experienced in this, mainly as a result of going about it the
wrong way initially, and then having to "re-learn" it once I wanted to
do morse code.

Initially I bought the 5 wpm CD when I was first licensed in 2001. I
then went to take the test, and found out that the letters were sent
much faster, due to farnsworth compression. An idea that makes sense,
send the letters at 18 wpm, but space them out so they words are sent
at 5 wpm. Then once you learn it at 18wpm, then just change the
spacing to speed up. But no one told me about it before the test.

G4FON's software, was how I started re-learning the code. The
software is handy, but I think there are some better tools out now for
the initial learning and practice. Though once you have the hang of
the basic code, G4FON is great tool. You can dump text into it, and
send it to yourself. I used to edit the quotes out of webpages (like
news) and have the software send it to me.
http://www.g4fon.net/

A program to help learn the letters is Morse Machine. It sends the
letter at the speed of your choice, then you have to type it in.
http://downloads.tech-pro.net/morse-machine_tpmm01.html

A good program for daily practice is RUFZ-XP
http://www.rufzxp.net/
This sends a call sign, at a speed setting of your choice. If you get
it correct, it speeds up. You get it incorrect, it slows down. Great
for short practice. Two 15 minute sets at different times throughout
the day, is good.

Morse runner is a good program practice also. It simulates a contest
and exchange. It can be run for a 15m interval.
http://www.dxatlas.com/MorseRunner/

That and the other fine links that have already been posted and the
great advice others have sent should go well for you.

The software will only get you so far. Get out there with someone,
and get on the air, or just practice in a room with code oscillators.

One suggestion. I am not trying to start a huge debate, but merely
comment on what I have experienced, and what I have heard.

Many will state that code should first be sent with a straight key.
This is fine if you have someone to work with. A lot of the bad
straight key code heard on the air will back me up on this.

What worked well for me, was learning to send good code with paddles
and a keyer. I did not have an elmer to work with, I was on my own.
Using a keyer and paddles taught me what good code sounds like. Then
when I picked up a straight key, I knew what good well spaced code
sounded like, and I just had to replicate it. That is no simple task.

Once you know what good code sounds like, the straight key is a great
tool. You really get a feel for the weighting and spacing.

There is plenty of code out there sent with improper spacing, or no
spacing at all. When I was re-learning code the last few years it
made me nuts to get in QSO's with these folks, and not be able to sort
out what they were sending. Folks that have been doing it for many a
years, can sort this out just fine. I was not able to, though I am
getting better with practice.

Many fine operators (and there are a lot of them on here) learned on
straight keys, and many of them had fine elmers (or instructors)
teaching them, helping them, and correcting their mistakes. This
makes all the difference in the world.

Many folks have MP3 players now days. They are cheap and everywhere.
I have one on my cell phone, and I download a bunch of the MP3's
from the ARRL archive and play them when I have some time. I mix them
up with stuff that is too fast for me, some that is a little fast, and
some that is easy. Once I listen to the "too fast" the others sound
slower. When listening to the "too fast", I just try to pick out a
few letters or short words.

When I listen to the "little fast" and the "easy", I work on memory
retention. Something that is getting harder at 48. I especially like
listening to the MP3's at night while I am sleeping. I don't know
why, it helps me sleep, and I admit to having some weird dreams as a
result. I never said I was normal, just happy.
http://www.arrl.org/w1aw/morse/Archive/

Best of luck to you, and I hope to catch you and your students on the
air. 73

Dave Wilburn
NM4M

TF3KX wrote:

AC7AC

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by GM0ELP

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

dave.wilburn

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

Those were some great links. Thanks Drew for making those available.
I have a friend that is trying to get his speed up, I'm going to
pass it along.

Dave Wilburn
NM4M

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Doug GM0ELP wrote:
>
> "... most people who already know cw forget the part where you
> simply have to memorise the code. All the methods discussed so far come
> after this hurdle."
>
> ----------------------------
>
> Except the program Drew, AF2Z has made available at:
>
> <http://www.archive.org/details/U.S._Armed_Forces_Institute_Basic_Radio_Code
> _ca1942>
>
> It starts with hearing the sounds of Morse, then moves into characters. It
> teaches perfect copy using groups of letters and numbers, so it doesn't help
> with the eventual hurdle of doing "head copy" of plain text, but it is a
> good way to learn the basics up to and including 16 WPM or so for someone
> who never heard Morse.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

w4nhj

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by AC7AC

I see a lot if interesting suggestions on how to learn CW the fast and or
easy way, but the one thing I feel is most most important is to learn to
copy under real life conditions (QRM/QRN poor fist). Memorise the code and
start learning to copy from off the air QSOs.

Sending is something else. I think that listening to slow canned code while
reading what is being sent and sending over top of the canned code will
teach proper timing.

My two cents.

Frank -W4NHJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [OT] Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

> Doug GM0ELP wrote:
>
> "... most people who already know cw forget the part where you
> simply have to memorise the code. All the methods discussed so far come
> after this hurdle."
>
> ----------------------------
>
> Except the program Drew, AF2Z has made available at:
>
> <http://www.archive.org/details/U.S._Armed_Forces_Institute_Basic_Radio_Code
> _ca1942>
>
> It starts with hearing the sounds of Morse, then moves into characters. It
> teaches perfect copy using groups of letters and numbers, so it doesn't
> help
> with the eventual hurdle of doing "head copy" of plain text, but it is a
> good way to learn the basics up to and including 16 WPM or so for someone
> who never heard Morse.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Alan Bloom

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by GM0ELP

On Fri, 2009-05-08 at 16:17 -0700, GM0ELP wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I find that most people who already know cw forget the part where you
> simply have to memorise the code.

I learned the code with the following method:

First I learned the Morse code for the letters "E" and "T". Then I
listened on the air to see if I can hear those characters, Once I could
convince myself that, yes, that was a single dit (E) or dah (T) then I
would add another easy character or two, like "S" or "M" and listen some
more.

As I gradually added letters, I found I would occasionally be able to
copy a whole word, like "IN" or "THE". Over a period of a week or two I
was able to learn the entire character set that way and could then
concentrate on copying longer words.

I don't remember exactly how long it took me to learn the code that way
(it was a VERY long time ago :=) but I'm sure it was weeks, not months.
The advantage is that you start off right away copying real imperfect
sending under realistic band conditions so it's not such a shock when
you get your license and start making your first QSOs.

Al N1AL

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David Cutter

Re: Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

In reply to this post by GM0ELP

Yes, Doug, I remember doing that, thanks for reminding me, it's very good
practice.

----- Original Message -----
From: "GM0ELP" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [OT] Suggested techniques for teaching CW?

>
> >
> 1) running through the alphabet in code from start to finish
> 2) translating car registration nos whilst in traffic
> 3) translating text (papers, adverts etc)
> >
> Doug GM0ELP
> --

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Phil and Christina

K3: new manuals?

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

When will new manuals be available that reflect the most recent K3 firmware?
Thank you.

Phil
NS7P

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