Sunspots!?!?
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If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient?
Doug, W0UHU. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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> Douglas Hagerman wrote: > > If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? No. > Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? Yes. Our radios were all designed with that magic moment in mind :) 73, Wayne N6KR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
I think they'll work exactly the way they do now.
73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 11/25/2020 3:52 PM, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote: > If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? > > Doug, W0UHU. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
Doug,
I lived through cycle 19 of the sunspot signals, and did not find any problem with receiver overloading at that time. We did not have the Elecraft gear at that time, but what we had was not up to the performance/protection that is typical for Elecraft. Receivers have gotten much better in dynamic range and lowered MDS in general and Elecraft rates near the top of the heap. The AGC in the K2 and K1 (and K3/K3S) can handle the strong signals with no problem. It is not much different than reports of performance during a contest where there are strong signals and weaker signals. If we have a strong sunspot cycle, the weak signals will get stronger along with the more powerful stations. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/25/2020 6:52 PM, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote: > If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
I've been a ham since before the solar peak of cycle 20, more than 50 years ago. I used a K1 with its simple SA612 front end during the peak activity for cycle 23 and 24. The problem that you have conjured is non-existent for practical proposes. There is nothing but joy to be had with any QRP rig in times of good solar activity. (I also used K1SWL's DSW-20, -30, -40 and MFJ Cubs for 40, 20, and 15 meters...all rigs with very simple front ends. I experienced no problems either.
FWIW, cycle 21 (peak November 1979) was my favorite. Mike / KK5F -----Original Message----- >From: Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft <[hidden email]> >Sent: Nov 25, 2020 5:52 PM > >If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? > >Doug, W0UHU. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
One can always use the built in attenuator...
73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 11/25/20 4:27 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Doug, > > I lived through cycle 19 of the sunspot signals, and did not find any > problem with receiver overloading at that time. We did not have the > Elecraft gear at that time, but what we had was not up to the > performance/protection that is typical for Elecraft. Receivers have > gotten much better in dynamic range and lowered MDS in general and > Elecraft rates near the top of the heap. > > The AGC in the K2 and K1 (and K3/K3S) can handle the strong signals with > no problem. It is not much different than reports of performance during > a contest where there are strong signals and weaker signals. > > If we have a strong sunspot cycle, the weak signals will get stronger > along with the more powerful stations. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 11/25/2020 6:52 PM, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote: >> If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a >> really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in >> 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically >> interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic >> problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can >> hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Or turn the RF Gain down...
On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 18:45 Dave Cole <[hidden email]> wrote: > One can always use the built in attenuator... > > 73, and thanks, > Dave (NK7Z) > https://www.nk7z.net > ARRL Volunteer Examiner > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources > > On 11/25/20 4:27 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > > Doug, > > > > I lived through cycle 19 of the sunspot signals, and did not find any > > problem with receiver overloading at that time. We did not have the > > Elecraft gear at that time, but what we had was not up to the > > performance/protection that is typical for Elecraft. Receivers have > > gotten much better in dynamic range and lowered MDS in general and > > Elecraft rates near the top of the heap. > > > > The AGC in the K2 and K1 (and K3/K3S) can handle the strong signals with > > no problem. It is not much different than reports of performance during > > a contest where there are strong signals and weaker signals. > > > > If we have a strong sunspot cycle, the weak signals will get stronger > > along with the more powerful stations. > > > > 73, > > Don W3FPR > > > > On 11/25/2020 6:52 PM, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote: > >> If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a > >> really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in > >> 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically > >> interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic > >> problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can > >> hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] -- 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW and thinking about operating CW: "Do today what others won't, so you can do tomorrow what others can't." ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
On 2020-11-25 16:52:-0700, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote:
>If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? > >Doug, W0UHU. I have been studying the records (I have a background in space plasma physics). Of course, I am not an expert, but I do enjoy analyzing scientific data. It seems to me that cycle 25 is likely to be a very active cycle. I see that NASA is anticipating a peak with 115 sunspots in July 2025, but I suspect that it will be much larger. Oops. Guess we'll see. ~R~ 72/73 de Rich NE1EE The Dusty Key On the banks of the Piscataqua ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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A contrarian view of cycle 25 was recently published which predicts a peak
SSN twice that of cycle 24: <https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/community/topic/1775-new-research-suggests-solar-cycle-25-could-be-strongest-in-50-years/> The article has a link to the paper, it's worth reading. They propose a new criterion for predicting the strength of a cycle which in their interpretation predicts a very strong cycle 25. Maybe they are on to something, maybe not, but we'll have to wait until 2025 to find out. My K3 is standing ready! Bob NW8L On Thu, 26 Nov 2020, Rich NE1EE wrote: > On 2020-11-25 16:52:-0700, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote: > >> If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? >> >> Doug, W0UHU. > > I have been studying the records (I have a background in space plasma physics). Of course, I am not an expert, but I do enjoy analyzing scientific data. It seems to me that cycle 25 is likely to be a very active cycle. I see that NASA is anticipating a peak with 115 sunspots in July 2025, but I suspect that it will be much larger. Oops. Guess we'll see. > > ~R~ > 72/73 de Rich NE1EE > The Dusty Key > On the banks of the Piscataqua > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Happy thanksgiving to all you care!
....and thinking positively , I’m all for cycle 25 being a whopper and incredible! Paul W6PNG/M0SNA www.nomadic.blog > On Nov 26, 2020, at 7:32 PM, Robert Cunnings <[hidden email]> wrote: > > A contrarian view of cycle 25 was recently published which predicts a peak SSN twice that of cycle 24: > > <https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/community/topic/1775-new-research-suggests-solar-cycle-25-could-be-strongest-in-50-years/> > > The article has a link to the paper, it's worth reading. They propose a new criterion for predicting the strength of a cycle which in their interpretation predicts a very strong cycle 25. Maybe they are on to something, maybe not, but we'll have to wait until 2025 to find out. My K3 is standing ready! > > Bob NW8L > >> On Thu, 26 Nov 2020, Rich NE1EE wrote: >> >>> On 2020-11-25 16:52:-0700, Douglas Hagerman via Elecraft wrote: >>> >>> If, by some miracle, the sunspot count were to eventually jump up to a really high level, as was the case in around 2002, or even better in 1959, how would the various Elecraft receivers work? I’m specifically interested in the K1 and K2, but in general, is there a realistic problem with overloading of the front end? Or, assuming that you can hear signals from all over, will the selectivity, etc., be sufficient? >>> >>> Doug, W0UHU. >> >> I have been studying the records (I have a background in space plasma physics). Of course, I am not an expert, but I do enjoy analyzing scientific data. It seems to me that cycle 25 is likely to be a very active cycle. I see that NASA is anticipating a peak with 115 sunspots in July 2025, but I suspect that it will be much larger. Oops. Guess we'll see. >> >> ~R~ >> 72/73 de Rich NE1EE >> The Dusty Key >> On the banks of the Piscataqua > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Robert Cunnings
The contrarian view is based on a correlation analysis of the distance
between "termination events" and the activity of the following cycle. The earlier [lower] estimates for Cycle 25 were based on physical solar dynamics. I remember Cycle 19, I was a teenage ham with a new Extra, and I of course figured this is the way it always is and will be. Then reality intervened. 😁 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 11/26/2020 7:30 PM, Robert Cunnings wrote: > A contrarian view of cycle 25 was recently published which predicts a > peak SSN twice that of cycle 24: > > <https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/community/topic/1775-new-research-suggests-solar-cycle-25-could-be-strongest-in-50-years/> > > > The article has a link to the paper, it's worth reading. They propose > a new criterion for predicting the strength of a cycle which in their > interpretation predicts a very strong cycle 25. Maybe they are on to > something, maybe not, but we'll have to wait until 2025 to find out. > My K3 is standing ready! > > Bob NW8L ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Robert Cunnings
On 2020-11-26 20:30:-0700, Robert Cunnings wrote:
><https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/community/topic/1775-new-research-suggests-solar-cycle-25-could-be-strongest-in-50-years/> >The article has a link to the paper, it's worth reading.Bob NW8L Thanks so much for posting this...I have been contacted off forum to discuss this, and I have been considering how to distill the information from historical data. There is a lot of processing involved. I will read this before I respond. This is not the first time that I have disagreed with mainstream physicists on some subject. That's what makes the world go 'round ;-) But disagreeing is not the same as being correct, so it remains to wait it out and see. In particular, I have disagreed in the past based on the difference twixt micro- and macro-view of some system (such as the sun, or the solar wind-earth interaction). ~R~ 72/73 de Rich NE1EE The Dusty Key On the banks of the Piscataqua ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
On 2020-11-26 20:30:-0700, Robert Cunnings wrote:
><https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/community/topic/1775-new-research-suggests-solar-cycle-25-could-be-strongest-in-50-years/> >The article has a link to the paper, it's worth reading.Bob NW8L I am partly through this paper. What may not be obvious at a glance are the statistics and math that underlie the analysis. I may as well be in for a penny, in for a pound. I had thought before reading this paper that there is a good reason to think that the sunspot activity will approach 250, +- a really big window. This is only slightly higher than McIntosh's 233. I think that I disagree with his model, but agree with his math and his conclusions. I encourage anyone who has an interest here to read the various papers. They will not be casual reading. I have had many successes and failures over the years. One thing that seems to put me in a smaller class of physicists is that I don't mind being wrong. I am passionate and enthusiastic about my beliefs, and ready to change them immediately upon seeing proof that I am wrong. A while back I was pursuing a particular math approach to finding (mumble, mumble, space plasma physics), and one of the senior PhDs said that "some really f*** smart people" had developed another approach, and I'd better spend my time understanding what they did, rather than go off in a different direction. My math later replaced that alternate approach. You need not think that this implies that I am any brighter than any one here, but that it points to a closed mindedness that really surprises me in the scientific community. One of my friends is fond of saying that he thinks I am bright enough to have 2 brains...one the size of a BB, and other just a tiny thing ;-) I appreciate the humor. We can also be found in public venues declaring to one another (wink, wink) that we are so smart that our IQs are not just in the 90s, they are in the /high/ 90s ;-) I have seen many insights come from folks with the equivalent of HS diplomas, and don't place much stock on the "paper" I have filed somewhere. That's why it's not on my wall. At any rate, we will all hold our breaths. Even if Cycle 25 is a banner cycle, my rotating-spinning-toroid sun model may not be correct. I can live with that ;-) And the cycles are good cycles-bad cycles, because what might be good for hams will certainly be cause for concern for those operating satellites and orbiting people containers. Now back to our regularly scheduled entertainment... ~R~ 72/73 de Rich NE1EE The Dusty Key On the banks of the Piscataqua ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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