T1 Remote Tuning and Power Supply

[GeorgeP1111]

I am in the process of slowly reconfiguring my station for the inevitable future move to a condo or antenna restricted area where I will have to play the "Stealth" antenna game.  My station comprises of a Yaesu FT-817ND, W1 PWR/SWR Indicator, 3ft diameter remotely tuned home built 20m-10m Magnetic Loop antenna, and a 80/40 meter Trapped Dipole using the T1 Tuner for fine tuning.  I figure I can always wrap plastic flowers around the Mag Loop and pass it off as a Christmas Wreath, but I will still want some sort of outdoor wire using the T1 tuner for the lower bands.

I want to use the T1 at the antenna end vs the radio end as I am now.  I know that the T1 has the ability to be remotely tuned via the port on the side, but I want to kick it up a notch.  I'm running DC up the coax to control the capacitor motor in my Mag Loop using the standard inductor/capacitor configuration, and I want to follow the same plan for the T1.  The idea is to use a push button to supply the 9v (I'll probably use a higher voltage and reduce it at the tuner to compensate for line loss) via the coax to the T1 (vs using the internal battery) and a LM556 Dual Timer at the T1.  Key Up, Push and hold the button, the T1 turns on and boots up and at the same time the LM556 starts timing.  After a preset amount of time (1 second?) the LM556 would pull the Tune line low via a Optical Isolator for say 1 second starting the Tune function.  Watch the SWR on the FT-817 or the W1 and when it stabilizes low, release the button and unkey.

Granted, I could leave the internal battery installed and just use the 9v to pull the Optical Isolator low but by adding the LM556 I can eliminate the battery as well.

I know the power via coax will work, and the LM556 (or even a PIC) will work, so I guess I'm asking if there is a problem with turning On/Off the power to the T1 and is 1 second enough time to stabilize prior to initiating Tune?

tnx

de George
WD0AKZ

[Bill K9YEQ]

George,

I would be most interested in what you come up with?  IF you have the time
please keep me informed.

Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of GeorgeP1111
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 11:25 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] T1 Remote Tuning and Power Supply


I am in the process of slowly reconfiguring my station for the inevitable
future move to a condo or antenna restricted area where I will have to play
the "Stealth" antenna game.  My station comprises of a Yaesu FT-817ND, W1
PWR/SWR Indicator, 3ft diameter remotely tuned home built 20m-10m Magnetic
Loop antenna, and a 80/40 meter Trapped Dipole using the T1 Tuner for fine
tuning.  I figure I can always wrap plastic flowers around the Mag Loop and
pass it off as a Christmas Wreath, but I will still want some sort of
outdoor wire using the T1 tuner for the lower bands.

I want to use the T1 at the antenna end vs the radio end as I am now.  I
know that the T1 has the ability to be remotely tuned via the port on the
side, but I want to kick it up a notch.  I'm running DC up the coax to
control the capacitor motor in my Mag Loop using the standard
inductor/capacitor configuration, and I want to follow the same plan for the
T1.  The idea is to use a push button to supply the 9v (I'll probably use a
higher voltage and reduce it at the tuner to compensate for line loss) via
the coax to the T1 (vs using the internal battery) and a LM556 Dual Timer at
the T1.  Key Up, Push and hold the button, the T1 turns on and boots up and
at the same time the LM556 starts timing.  After a preset amount of time (1
second?) the LM556 would pull the Tune line low via a Optical Isolator for
say 1 second starting the Tune function.  Watch the SWR on the FT-817 or the
W1 and when it stabilizes low, release the button and unkey.

Granted, I could leave the internal battery installed and just use the 9v to
pull the Optical Isolator low but by adding the LM556 I can eliminate the
battery as well.

I know the power via coax will work, and the LM556 (or even a PIC) will
work, so I guess I'm asking if there is a problem with turning On/Off the
power to the T1 and is 1 second enough time to stabilize prior to initiating
Tune?

tnx

de George
WD0AKZ
--
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4646p5744646.html
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[GeorgeP1111]

Hi Bill....

Quite a while back you sent me this request (I didn't forget).  I'm done with the schematic of the T1 remote tuning interface that I hope to find time to build.  If you are still interested, I can shoot you over a copy of it.  The Tiny CAD program I use to draw schematics only allows me to export them in .emf format, but using Windows Viewer (double click on the .emf file) will allow it to be viewed and printed.

Anyhow, I was going to use the T1 to tune a 88' dipole fed with twin lead to be used as a multi-band antenna, but upon further research on this antenna I don't think the T1 has enough to be able to tune it.  I am still going to build the interface because sooner or later I will probably be moving into a restricted area and need to use some sort of stealthy antenna.

73's
de George
WD0AKZ

[Michael Babineau-2]

George :

Don't under-estimate the T1.

I have used it with a 44 foot doublet fed with twisted pair made from #26 AWG Teflon coated, silver plated wire and it tunes nicely from 40m through 10m.
The 88 ft version should tune just fine on 80m with some tweaking.  As with pretty much any antenna the impedance will vary somewhat as a function
of height. In my experience if you are going to have tuning issues with an 88ft or 44ft doublet, it will most likely be on the lowest band, where it is a bit short of
a half wavelength.  Usually this can be rectified by shortening the parallel feedline by a few inches to present a more reasonable impedance to the tuner so be sure
to leave some extra feedline length as you will likely need to do some pruning once the antenna is installed.

Best of luck

Michael VE3WMB / VA2NB

>From: GeorgeP1111 <[hidden email]>
>Date: March 10, 2011 10:33:47 AM EST
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] T1 Remote Tuning and Power Supply


>Hi Bill....

>Quite a while back you sent me this request (I didn't forget).  I'm done with the schematic of the T1 remote tuning interface that I hope to find time to build.  If you are still interested, I can shoot you over a copy >of it.  The Tiny CAD program I use to draw schematics only allows me to export them in .emf format, but using Windows Viewer (double click on the .emf file) will allow it to be viewed and printed.

>Anyhow, I was going to use the T1 to tune a 88' dipole fed with twin lead to be used as a multi-band antenna, but upon further research on this antenna I don't think the T1 has enough to be able to tune it.  I >am still going to build the interface because sooner or later I will probably be moving into a restricted area and need to use some sort of stealthy antenna.

>73's
>de George
>WD0AKZ
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[GeorgeP1111]

Thanks Michael.... Maybe I'll continue with my plans and give it a try this spring.

de George
WD0AKZ

[Jim AB3CV]

Hi George

I've been running my T1 remote out under my 88ft dipole which is just short
of 50ft in the air at the midpoint. The ends are a bit higher. The T1 is
down at the ground under a plastic container and connected to the windowline
via a Elecraft 1:1 balun. I remote control it via the circuit on my website
www.jtmiller.com . I find it gets a 1:1 match on 80-6 meters. It is
connected to my K3 about 60ft away via RG213.

Obviously the pattern is a bit of a daisy above 20M and is mostly a cloud
warmer at 80M and below. But that's just what this length dipole does
independent of match.

I've lately been using the windowline as a vertical with the 88ft as a
capacity hat on 80-160 and found it works quite well. The T1 is very happy
matching that on 80M and gets to about 2:1 on 160. I use my K3 internal
tuner to remove the remaining mismatch on 160 to ensure proper power meter
readings. The loss due to this level of SWR on 160 with RG213 is
meaningless.

When used in this vertical configuration the two ends of the windowline are
tied together to one terminal of the tuner and the other side connects to 8
60ft buried radials.

73

Jim ab3cv

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 10:33 AM, GeorgeP1111 <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Bill....
>
> Quite a while back you sent me this request (I didn't forget).  I'm done
> with the schematic of the T1 remote tuning interface that I hope to find
> time to build.  If you are still interested, I can shoot you over a copy of
> it.  The Tiny CAD program I use to draw schematics only allows me to export
> them in .emf format, but using Windows Viewer (double click on the .emf
> file) will allow it to be viewed and printed.
>
> Anyhow, I was going to use the T1 to tune a 88' dipole fed with twin lead
> to be used as a multi-band antenna, but upon further research on this
> antenna I don't think the T1 has enough to be able to tune it.  I am still
> going to build the interface because sooner or later I will probably be
> moving into a restricted area and need to use some sort of stealthy antenna.
>
> 73's
> de George
> WD0AKZ
>
>
>
>  George,
>
>  I would be most interested in what you come up with?  IF you have the time
>  please keep me informed.
>
>  Bill
>  K9YEQ
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: [hidden email]
>  [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of GeorgeP1111
>  Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 11:25 AM
>  To: [hidden email]
>  Subject: [Elecraft] T1 Remote Tuning and Power Supply
>
>
>  I am in the process of slowly reconfiguring my station for the inevitable
>  future move to a condo or antenna restricted area where I will have to
> play
>  the "Stealth" antenna game.  My station comprises of a Yaesu FT-817ND, W1
>  PWR/SWR Indicator, 3ft diameter remotely tuned home built 20m-10m Magnetic
>  Loop antenna, and a 80/40 meter Trapped Dipole using the T1 Tuner for fine
>  tuning.  I figure I can always wrap plastic flowers around the Mag Loop
> and
>  pass it off as a Christmas Wreath, but I will still want some sort of
>  outdoor wire using the T1 tuner for the lower bands.
>
>  I want to use the T1 at the antenna end vs the radio end as I am now.  I
>  know that the T1 has the ability to be remotely tuned via the port on the
>  side, but I want to kick it up a notch.  I'm running DC up the coax to
>  control the capacitor motor in my Mag Loop using the standard
>  inductor/capacitor configuration, and I want to follow the same plan for
> the
>  T1.  The idea is to use a push button to supply the 9v (I'll probably use
> a
>  higher voltage and reduce it at the tuner to compensate for line loss) via
>  the coax to the T1 (vs using the internal battery) and a LM556 Dual Timer
> at
>  the T1.  Key Up, Push and hold the button, the T1 turns on and boots up
> and
>  at the same time the LM556 starts timing.  After a preset amount of time
> (1
>  second?) the LM556 would pull the Tune line low via a Optical Isolator for
>  say 1 second starting the Tune function.  Watch the SWR on the FT-817 or
> the
>  W1 and when it stabilizes low, release the button and unkey.
>
>  Granted, I could leave the internal battery installed and just use the 9v
> to
>  pull the Optical Isolator low but by adding the LM556 I can eliminate the
>  battery as well.
>
>  I know the power via coax will work, and the LM556 (or even a PIC) will
>  work, so I guess I'm asking if there is a problem with turning On/Off the
>  power to the T1 and is 1 second enough time to stabilize prior to
> initiating
>  Tune?
>
>  tnx
>
>  de George
>  WD0AKZ
>  --
>  View this message in context:
>
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/T1-Remote-Tuning-and-Power-Supply-tp574
>  4646p5744646.html
>  Sent from the [MM] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>  ______________________________________________________________
>  Elecraft mailing list
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>  Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>  Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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--
www.jtmiller.com/wordpress
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[GeorgeP1111]

Jim AB3CV wrote

I've been running my T1 remote out under my 88ft dipole which is just short
of 50ft in the air at the midpoint. The ends are a bit higher. The T1 is
down at the ground under a plastic container and connected to the windowline
via a Elecraft 1:1 balun. I remote control it via the circuit on my website
www.jtmiller.com . I find it gets a 1:1 match on 80-6 meters. It is
connected to my K3 about 60ft away via RG213.

This is also good to hear.  Sounds like spring time will definitely be antenna season.

Tns for the input.

73's
de George
WD0AKZ

[David Cutter]

Jim

I like the idea of a battery operated remote tuner and a simple relay
change-over to provide a top-loaded vertical.  I'm often bothered by
connecting the antenna feeder into a 1:1 balun and then to the tuner.  I've
read that the very large impedance mis-match can lead to large losses in the
balun on some frequencies, though you might not *feel* it with low power.
With a self-powered little tuner, it would be easy to raise it off the
ground a little and connect the ladder line feeder directly to the tuner;
then coil some thin coax through a ferrite toroid to make a choke (see Jim
Brown's excellent articles - K9YC) for connection to your RG213.  This
should also result in less noise pick up on receive.  Some folks add a
further choke at the shack end to further reduce received noise.

David
G3UNA

> I've been running my T1 remote out under my 88ft dipole which is just
> short
> of 50ft in the air at the midpoint. The ends are a bit higher. The T1 is
> down at the ground under a plastic container and connected to the
> windowline
> via a Elecraft 1:1 balun. I remote control it via the circuit on my
> website
> www.jtmiller.com . I find it gets a 1:1 match on 80-6 meters. It is
> connected to my K3 about 60ft away via RG213.
>
> Obviously the pattern is a bit of a daisy above 20M and is mostly a cloud
> warmer at 80M and below. But that's just what this length dipole does
> independent of match.
>
> I've lately been using the windowline as a vertical with the 88ft as a
> capacity hat on 80-160 and found it works quite well. The T1 is very happy
> matching that on 80M and gets to about 2:1 on 160. I use my K3 internal
> tuner to remove the remaining mismatch on 160 to ensure proper power meter
> readings. The loss due to this level of SWR on 160 with RG213 is
> meaningless.
>
> When used in this vertical configuration the two ends of the windowline
> are
> tied together to one terminal of the tuner and the other side connects to
> 8
> 60ft buried radials.
>
> 73
>
> Jim ab3cv

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[Vic K2VCO]

I did an experiment in which I connected an open-wire-fed 88 foot dipole to my K3 through
a large balun. The KAT3 matched it perfectly on all bands, but I wondered about the
efficiency of this system compared to a balanced tuner like my old Johnson Matchbox.

So I measured the temperature rise of the balun after transmitting for a minute and
recorded it. It was several degrees. Then I added a pair of capacitors in series with the
feeders to tune out the reactance (it happened to be inductive on the band that I was
testing) and re-ran the experiment (after waiting several hours for the balun to return to
room temperature). The temperature rise was much less, almost unmeasurable!

I think this showed that the "tuner-to-balun" system can be inefficient under some
conditions. I went back to the Matchbox, even though I had to give up the automatic tuning
provided by the KAT3.

On 3/11/2011 12:22 AM, David Cutter wrote:

> Jim
>
> I like the idea of a battery operated remote tuner and a simple relay
> change-over to provide a top-loaded vertical.  I'm often bothered by
> connecting the antenna feeder into a 1:1 balun and then to the tuner.  I've
> read that the very large impedance mis-match can lead to large losses in the
> balun on some frequencies, though you might not *feel* it with low power.
> With a self-powered little tuner, it would be easy to raise it off the
> ground a little and connect the ladder line feeder directly to the tuner;
> then coil some thin coax through a ferrite toroid to make a choke (see Jim
> Brown's excellent articles - K9YC) for connection to your RG213.  This
> should also result in less noise pick up on receive.  Some folks add a
> further choke at the shack end to further reduce received noise.
>
> David
> G3UNA
>
>
>> I've been running my T1 remote out under my 88ft dipole which is just
>> short
>> of 50ft in the air at the midpoint. The ends are a bit higher. The T1 is
>> down at the ground under a plastic container and connected to the
>> windowline
>> via a Elecraft 1:1 balun. I remote control it via the circuit on my
>> website
>> www.jtmiller.com . I find it gets a 1:1 match on 80-6 meters. It is
>> connected to my K3 about 60ft away via RG213.
>>
>> Obviously the pattern is a bit of a daisy above 20M and is mostly a cloud
>> warmer at 80M and below. But that's just what this length dipole does
>> independent of match.
>>
>> I've lately been using the windowline as a vertical with the 88ft as a
>> capacity hat on 80-160 and found it works quite well. The T1 is very happy
>> matching that on 80M and gets to about 2:1 on 160. I use my K3 internal
>> tuner to remove the remaining mismatch on 160 to ensure proper power meter
>> readings. The loss due to this level of SWR on 160 with RG213 is
>> meaningless.
>>
>> When used in this vertical configuration the two ends of the windowline
>> are
>> tied together to one terminal of the tuner and the other side connects to
>> 8
>> 60ft buried radials.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Jim ab3cv
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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