TS870

[Benny Aumala]

TS870 has best RX audio I ever heard. This is often neglected area
in RX design, but stays in line from antenna to our brains.
My experience of many RX building is to keep amplifier naturally
linear without almost any feedback. Pass-band may be 20Hz....30kHz.

I hope K3 has the same quality in audio part.

TS870 can be modified with Inrad filters, but the real problem is
still broad up-conversion band. Even the canadian gain-modification
is just a partial help. To replace 0603 and 0805 SMD resistors was just
on the limit for my eyes.

TS870 has a genuine RF-clipper with real monitoring.

But K3 seems to have these and much more. I wait for mine
and look forward for manual published here.

Benny OH9NB


_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Charly]

Sadly, the 870 was Kenwood's last real ham radio effort.  And it came up
short with anyone who had another good rig to compare it to.... like the MP,
etc.  Too bad Kenwood is now out of the high end rig game.... The other 2
from JA soon to follow?



Charles Harpole
[hidden email]

_________________________________________________________________
See what you’re getting into…before you go there
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Brett gazdzinski-2]

 
I don't know anything about the 870, but most other
modern rigs really seem to fall down in the audio department.

The ratings typically are 2.5 watts or less at 10% distortion,
no frequency response range or noise figures...

But even using the line out into a hifi amp and good speaker
does not improve things much, as a lot of noise and distortion
is in earlier stages.
Add in the off frequency overload and you have a really
poor sounding radio.


You can get an audio chip that puts out 20 watts times 2
and runs off 12 volts, with close to true hifi specs for about
$3.00 (car radio amps).

I just cant understand how they can make boxes that cost
$5000.00 and up with every feature you can think of and
put in a 1.5 watt 10% distortion amp and a 2 inch no fi speaker!

Brett
N2DTS
 

>
> TS870 has best RX audio I ever heard. This is often neglected area
> in RX design, but stays in line from antenna to our brains.
> My experience of many RX building is to keep amplifier naturally
> linear without almost any feedback. Pass-band may be 20Hz....30kHz.
>
> I hope K3 has the same quality in audio part.
>
> TS870 can be modified with Inrad filters, but the real problem is
> still broad up-conversion band. Even the canadian gain-modification
> is just a partial help. To replace 0603 and 0805 SMD
> resistors was just
> on the limit for my eyes.
>
> TS870 has a genuine RF-clipper with real monitoring.
>
> But K3 seems to have these and much more. I wait for mine
> and look forward for manual published here.
>
> Benny OH9NB
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Simon (HB9DRV)]

Agreed - as I get older I need more audio - my IC-7800 was very good in this
department, hoping the K3 will be!

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett gazdzinski" <[hidden email]>
>
> The ratings typically are 2.5 watts or less at 10% distortion,
> no frequency response range or noise figures...
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Brett gazdzinski-2]

I looked up the specs on the TS-870, and
its 1.5 watts of audio out at 10% distortion.

People say it sounds great??

Brett
N2DTS

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Don Wilhelm-4]

I plan to put an external amplifier and speaker on my K3.

The K2 was designed with audio 'just strong enough' so that the  the
receiver current drain would be low, and the K3 does not draw a huge
amount of receive current either - which tells me that there is not a
BIG audio amplifier in it either - but it will be adequate, the bare K2
*is* adequate in most situations, just not powerful and not 'hi-fi'.  To
expect great sound from a tiny speaker and an LM380 amplifier is simply
unrealistic IMHO.

I run all my shack receivers into an external audio amplifier.  I have a
dedicated 'communications quality' amplifier/speaker combination with a
homebrew audio mixer as the front end.   There is a good quality stereo
system here in the shack/office that I can feed the receivers into if I
want the best fidelity audio, but that is not usually the case for ham
receivers.

Bottom line is that I have never encountered a modern ham receiver with
an internal speaker that has what I would call good audio - that went
away when the big vacuum tube behemoths with their big external speakers
and big transformers went out of production, so I provide my own.

73,
Don W3FPR

Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote:

> Agreed - as I get older I need more audio - my IC-7800 was very good
> in this department, hoping the K3 will be!
>
> Simon Brown, HB9DRV
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett gazdzinski"
> <[hidden email]>
>>
>> The ratings typically are 2.5 watts or less at 10% distortion,
>> no frequency response range or noise figures...
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Brett gazdzinski-2]

 I do the exact same thing, I use an old Marantz amplifier
into a big floor standing hifi speaker.
The Marantz has bass, mid and treble controls, plus low and high
filters, which allows me to select any sort of audio
bandpass I want.
I can select various receivers and have one speaker in the shack,
plus the tape out if I want to record something.

My K2 audio sounds fine on cw.
Not a huge amount of background hiss from the chips
and there seems to be plenty for me.

I don't have the ssb board, so cant say how it sounds
on ssb, but that is somewhat pointless to me anyway.

Funny, but there are good sounding modern swl
receivers, with nice speakers, adequate audio
power, bass and treble controls, etc.

The very expensive ham gear has general coverage, but what
for?

Maybe the manufacturers limit the fidelity to reduce
the noise, but that should/could be an adjustable option...

Brett
N2DTS


 

> I plan to put an external amplifier and speaker on my K3.
>
> The K2 was designed with audio 'just strong enough' so that the  the
> receiver current drain would be low, and the K3 does not draw a huge
> amount of receive current either - which tells me that there is not a
> BIG audio amplifier in it either - but it will be adequate,
> the bare K2
> *is* adequate in most situations, just not powerful and not
> 'hi-fi'.  To
> expect great sound from a tiny speaker and an LM380 amplifier
> is simply
> unrealistic IMHO.
>
> I run all my shack receivers into an external audio
> amplifier.  I have a
> dedicated 'communications quality' amplifier/speaker
> combination with a
> homebrew audio mixer as the front end.   There is a good
> quality stereo
> system here in the shack/office that I can feed the receivers
> into if I
> want the best fidelity audio, but that is not usually the
> case for ham
> receivers.
>
> Bottom line is that I have never encountered a modern ham
> receiver with
> an internal speaker that has what I would call good audio - that went
> away when the big vacuum tube behemoths with their big
> external speakers
> and big transformers went out of production, so I provide my own.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Roelof Bakker]

Hello Don,

I have finished my K2 a couple of weeks ago and did not expect much from the
speaker.
One can be wrong. The audio from the speaker is really excellent, at least
on CW.
I can't follow the remarks on low audio volume, because my unit has ample of
it.
Over the years I have used a LM380 in all my home made projects and been
very pleased with the results.

On an other note, I have also found that for weak signal work my brain seems
to work best with a low audio volume. Thus a quiet room has proved to be
more important than strong audio. When the going gets tough I even switch
off my quiet PC.

73,
Roelof, pa0rdt


--
Mijn Postvak In wordt beschermd door SPAMfighter.
253 spam-mails zijn er tot op heden geblokkeerd.
Download de gratis SPAMfighter via deze link: http://www.spamfighter.com/lnl


_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Don Wilhelm-4]

Roelof,

Your experience substantiates my idea that everyone's ears and
perceptions are a bit different.  I did say the K2 is adequate, and that
small speaker is good and very efficient, but not really to my liking.

IMHO, as a society, we may declining rapidly in audio perception when I
hear advertising statements which hint that MP3 recordings are better
quality than CD recordings!  We have finally achieved good quality
digital preservation of sound waves, and now the iPod crowd and its
popularity may be diminishing the easy availability of high quality
recordings for the consumer - that trend concerns me.

73,
Don W3FPR

Roelof Bakker wrote:

> Hello Don,
>
> I have finished my K2 a couple of weeks ago and did not expect much
> from the speaker.
> One can be wrong. The audio from the speaker is really excellent, at
> least on CW.
> I can't follow the remarks on low audio volume, because my unit has
> ample of it.
> Over the years I have used a LM380 in all my home made projects and
> been very pleased with the results.
>
> On an other note, I have also found that for weak signal work my brain
> seems to work best with a low audio volume. Thus a quiet room has
> proved to be more important than strong audio. When the going gets
> tough I even switch off my quiet PC.
>
> 73,
> Roelof, pa0rdt
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Julian, G4ILO]

When you listen to the "music" most people listen to, the quality
hardly matters. :)

However, there are lossless audio compression formats, and formats
that can support higher bit-rates (and therefore presumably higher
fidelity) than standard CDs, so I guess the advertising is true. It's
just that most people are happy to trade quality for small file size.

As far as amateur communications go I think the quality of the
transmitted audio makes more difference than the quality of the
receiver. Some of the cleanest sounding SSB I have ever heard came
from the Kenwood TS-520 / TS-820 / TS-830 transceivers with their tube
finals. Then solid state PAs came along. I doubt if even the K3 output
stages will have better linearity and IMD than a pair of 6146Bs in
push-pull, but Elecraft is always capable of surprising us. ;)

--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com


On 8/24/07, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> IMHO, as a society, we may declining rapidly in audio perception when I
> hear advertising statements which hint that MP3 recordings are better
> quality than CD recordings!  We have finally achieved good quality
> digital preservation of sound waves, and now the iPod crowd and its
> popularity may be diminishing the easy availability of high quality
> recordings for the consumer - that trend concerns me.
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Craig-89]

It would be nice if the K3 has a perfectly designed
ALC which results in all IMD products  being down 40
db at 5khz and 80db down at 20khz. For the needs of
VHF contesting IMD products should ideally be down 100
db down at 20 khz.   However expecting this level of
IMD performance from any modern ham radio is truly a
dream. However older radios like the TS520S and TS830s
could achieve or come close to this level of
performance.

 I don't know if the K3 has a perfectly designed ALC,
or if it has a some way of controlling the drive level
without  activating the ALC like the FT1000D and
IC7800  radios. A drive control is a great way of
driving the PA  even when the ALC has a tendency too
overshoot which causes much of the horrendous  IMD
that we hear so much of on the bands.  Unfortunately 2
tone  numbers don't tell us much about how the
transmitter performs under real world voice
conditions. Lets hope that the K3 has got it right.

Craig
VK3HE
--- Julian G4ILO <[hidden email]> wrote:

> When you listen to the "music" most people listen
> to, the quality
> hardly matters. :)
>
> However, there are lossless audio compression
> formats, and formats
> that can support higher bit-rates (and therefore
> presumably higher
> fidelity) than standard CDs, so I guess the
> advertising is true. It's
> just that most people are happy to trade quality for
> small file size.
>
> As far as amateur communications go I think the
> quality of the
> transmitted audio makes more difference than the
> quality of the
> receiver. Some of the cleanest sounding SSB I have
> ever heard came
> from the Kenwood TS-520 / TS-820 / TS-830
> transceivers with their tube
> finals. Then solid state PAs came along. I doubt if
> even the K3 output
> stages will have better linearity and IMD than a
> pair of 6146Bs in
> push-pull, but Elecraft is always capable of
> surprising us. ;)
>
> --
> Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
> G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
> Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
>
>
> On 8/24/07, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > IMHO, as a society, we may declining rapidly in
> audio perception when I
> > hear advertising statements which hint that MP3
> recordings are better
> > quality than CD recordings!  We have finally
> achieved good quality
> > digital preservation of sound waves, and now the
> iPod crowd and its
> > popularity may be diminishing the easy
> availability of high quality
> > recordings for the consumer - that trend concerns
> me.
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

       
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat?
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[AJSOENKE]

Good sounding speakers need good cabinets - usually big enough to support  
the speaker and it's bass response. They used to sell matching speakers for this
 reason, but they didn't sell enough of them to justify the cost. In either
case  - headphones are superior but tiring and large speakers challenge the
need  for smaller stations, the cheap small speakers allowed portability and  
economy. Bottom line, just consider the cheapy a freeby and get the speaker in a  
box to go with the big rig. BTW ever try listening to an FT-100?  Whew!!  I
like the K2 and it's good speaker even if the space is  cramped.
 
AL WA6VNN  



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Brett gazdzinski-2]

Not sure its just the finals that are responsible,
but maybe the analog discrete low gain stuff in the rest
of the radio?

I do notice some of the modern radios have a class A
setting for the output stages, to clean things up?

At $12,000.00 I am not going to get one and find out...

Brett
N2DTS





 > As far as amateur communications go I think the quality of the

> transmitted audio makes more difference than the quality of the
> receiver. Some of the cleanest sounding SSB I have ever heard came
> from the Kenwood TS-520 / TS-820 / TS-830 transceivers with their tube
> finals. Then solid state PAs came along. I doubt if even the K3 output
> stages will have better linearity and IMD than a pair of 6146Bs in
> push-pull, but Elecraft is always capable of surprising us. ;)
>
> --
> Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
> G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
> Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
>

 

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com