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The case against touch screens

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alorona

The case against touch screens

Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to come on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning around at this moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.

He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he were breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal tuning up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant clammy hands. He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's touch screen. He taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch screen. Please recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but nobody has heard them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is tapping frantically, time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours, and still the dim-witted screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the usual finger gymnastics that people do when they're trying to make their device understand that they in fact want it to do something. The radio sits there stupidly, the DX stops calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins. Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, wondering why those &#^+! engineers at Elecraft decided to put a $@_% touch screen on an otherwise perfectly good radio.

For this reason, I will never buy a radio with a touch screen. Ain't gonna do it. So Elecraft, you've been put on notice.

Thank you,

Al W6LX
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W2xj

Re: The case against touch screens

I’ve been using touchscreens for 35 years. My experience is not what you describe. Actually it is very much the opposite. Mechanical switches are the least reliable.

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 8:35 PM, Al Lorona <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to come on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning around at this moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.
>
> He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he were breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal tuning up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant clammy hands. He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's touch screen. He taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch screen. Please recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but nobody has heard them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is tapping frantically, time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours, and still the dim-witted screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the usual finger gymnastics that people do when they're trying to make their device understand that they in fact want it to do something. The radio sits there stupidly, the DX stops calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins. Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, wondering why those &#^+! engineers at Elecraft decided to put a $@_% touch screen on an otherwise perfectly good radio.
>
> For this reason, I will never buy a radio with a touch screen. Ain't gonna do it. So Elecraft, you've been put on notice.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Al W6LX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Michael Walker

Re: The case against touch screens

I have used all sort of user interfaces.

Knobs, mouse, keyboard, touch screens. They all work and do what they need
to do.

That being said, it comes down to what works for you.

Mike va3mw

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 8:52 PM W2xj <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I’ve been using touchscreens for 35 years. My experience is not what you
> describe. Actually it is very much the opposite. Mechanical switches are
> the least reliable.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 24, 2019, at 8:35 PM, Al Lorona <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to
> come on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning
> around at this moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.
> >
> > He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he
> were breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal
> tuning up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant
> clammy hands. He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's
> touch screen. He taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch
> screen. Please recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but
> nobody has heard them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is
> tapping frantically, time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours,
> and still the dim-witted screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the
> usual finger gymnastics that people do when they're trying to make their
> device understand that they in fact want it to do something. The radio sits
> there stupidly, the DX stops calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins.
> Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, wondering why those &#^+! engineers at
> Elecraft decided to put a $@_% touch screen on an otherwise perfectly good
> radio.
> >
> > For this reason, I will never buy a radio with a touch screen. Ain't
> gonna do it. So Elecraft, you've been put on notice.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Al W6LX
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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kevinr@coho.net

Re: The case against touch screens

I like using a soldering iron and an assembler for my user interface.
They allow me to do low level coding :)

Kevin. KD5ONS

-

On 3/24/19 5:55 PM, Michael Walker wrote:

> I have used all sort of user interfaces.
>
> Knobs, mouse, keyboard, touch screens. They all work and do what they need
> to do.
>
> That being said, it comes down to what works for you.
>
> Mike va3mw
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 8:52 PM W2xj <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I’ve been using touchscreens for 35 years. My experience is not what you
>> describe. Actually it is very much the opposite. Mechanical switches are
>> the least reliable.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Mar 24, 2019, at 8:35 PM, Al Lorona <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to
>> come on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning
>> around at this moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.
>>> He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he
>> were breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal
>> tuning up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant
>> clammy hands. He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's
>> touch screen. He taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch
>> screen. Please recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but
>> nobody has heard them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is
>> tapping frantically, time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours,
>> and still the dim-witted screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the
>> usual finger gymnastics that people do when they're trying to make their
>> device understand that they in fact want it to do something. The radio sits
>> there stupidly, the DX stops calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins.
>> Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, wondering why those &#^+! engineers at
>> Elecraft decided to put a $@_% touch screen on an otherwise perfectly good
>> radio.
>>> For this reason, I will never buy a radio with a touch screen. Ain't
>> gonna do it. So Elecraft, you've been put on notice.
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Al W6LX
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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NK7Z

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by alorona

I suspect touch screens are just a fad for rigs... Imagine one in your
moving car...

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 3/24/19 5:35 PM, Al Lorona wrote:

> Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to come on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning around at this moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.
>
> He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he were breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal tuning up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant clammy hands. He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's touch screen. He taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch screen. Please recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but nobody has heard them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is tapping frantically, time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours, and still the dim-witted screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the usual finger gymnastics that people do when they're trying to make their device understand that they in fact want it to do something. The radio sits there stupidly, the DX stops calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins. Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, wondering why those &#^+! engineers at Elecraft decided to put a $@_% touch screen on an otherwise perfectly good radio.
>
> For this reason, I will never buy a radio with a touch screen. Ain't gonna do it. So Elecraft, you've been put on notice.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Al W6LX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

W2xj

Re: The case against touch screens

Old news. They have existed for a while.

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 9:43 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I suspect touch screens are just a fad for rigs... Imagine one in your moving car...
>
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL OOC for Oregon
>
>> On 3/24/19 5:35 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
>> Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to come on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning around at this moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.
>> He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he were breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal tuning up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant clammy hands. He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's touch screen. He taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch screen. Please recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but nobody has heard them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is tapping frantically, time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours, and still the dim-witted screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the usual finger gymnastics that people do when they're trying to make their device understand that they in fact want it to do something. The radio sits there stupidly, the DX stops calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins. Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, wondering why those &#^+! engineers at Elecraft decided to put a $@_% touch scree

n on an otherwise perfectly good radio.

>> For this reason, I will never buy a radio with a touch screen. Ain't gonna do it. So Elecraft, you've been put on notice.
>> Thank you,
>> Al W6LX
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim AB3CV

Re: The case against touch screens

Not in love with the one in my 2018 Camry. Very difficult to use while
driving.

I'm getting better at using voice as a result.

jim ab3cv

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 9:52 PM W2xj <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Old news. They have existed for a while.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 24, 2019, at 9:43 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I suspect touch screens are just a fad for rigs... Imagine one in your
> moving car...
> >
> > 73s and thanks,
> > Dave (NK7Z)
> > https://www.nk7z.net
> > ARRL Technical Specialist
> > ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> > ARRL OOC for Oregon
> >
> >> On 3/24/19 5:35 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
> >> Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to
> come on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning
> around at this moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.
> >> He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he
> were breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal
> tuning up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant
> clammy hands. He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's
> touch screen. He taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch
> screen. Please recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but
> nobody has heard them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is
> tapping frantically, time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours,
> and still the dim-witted screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the
> usual finger gymnastics that people do when they're trying to make their
> device understand that they in fact want it to do something. The radio sits
> there stupidly, the DX stops calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins.
> Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, wondering why those &#^+! engineers at
> Elecraft decided to put a $@_% touch scree
> n on an otherwise perfectly good radio.
> >> For this reason, I will never buy a radio with a touch screen. Ain't
> gonna do it. So Elecraft, you've been put on notice.
> >> Thank you,
> >> Al W6LX
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Macy monkeys

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by W2xj

So much for tongue in cheek humor... ;)

John K7FD

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 6:52 PM, W2xj <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Old news. They have existed for a while.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 24, 2019, at 9:43 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I suspect touch screens are just a fad for rigs... Imagine one in your moving car...
>>
>> 73s and thanks,
>> Dave (NK7Z)
>> https://www.nk7z.net
>> ARRL Technical Specialist
>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>> ARRL OOC for Oregon
>>
>>> On 3/24/19 5:35 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
>>> Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to come on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning around at this moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.
>>> He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he were breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal tuning up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant clammy hands. He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's touch screen. He taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch screen. Please recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but nobody has heard them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is tapping frantically, time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours, and still the dim-witted screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the usual finger gymnastics that people do when they're trying to make their device understand that they in fact want it to do something. The radio sits there stupidly, the DX stops calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins. Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, wondering why those &#^+! engineers at Elecraft decided to put a $@_% touch scre

> n on an otherwise perfectly good radio.
>>> For this reason, I will never buy a radio with a touch screen. Ain't gonna do it. So Elecraft, you've been put on notice.
>>> Thank you,
>>> Al W6LX
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Brown-10

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by Jim AB3CV

On 3/24/2019 6:54 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
> I'm getting better at using voice as a result.

You've GOT to watch the most recent Bill Maher show (3/22/19) for his
short take on this! As I recall, it was in his New Rules segment.
Excerpts and complete shows can often be found on youtube.

73, Jim K9YC

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Nr4c

Re: The case against touch screens

Touch screens have their place. My next HF rig may well have a touch screen. My mobile prob not.

Sent from my iPhone via a “touch screen”!
...nr4c. bill

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 11:11 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 3/24/2019 6:54 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>> I'm getting better at using voice as a result.
>
> You've GOT to watch the most recent Bill Maher show (3/22/19) for his short take on this! As I recall, it was in his New Rules segment. Excerpts and complete shows can often be found on youtube.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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VE3NR

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by NK7Z

You shouldn't be playing with your radio while driving anyway!!

Bert VE3NR

On 3/24/2019 9:43 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

> I suspect touch screens are just a fad for rigs... Imagine one in
> your moving car...
>
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL OOC for Oregon
>
> On 3/24/19 5:35 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
>> Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to
>> come on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be
>> tuning around at this moment trying to be the first to work the
>> DXpedition.
>>
>> He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if
>> he were breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak
>> signal tuning up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush.
>> Instant clammy hands. He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy
>> new rig's touch screen. He taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh
>> no, not now, touch screen. Please recognize my finger... please!
>> Bouvet turns it over, but nobody has heard them yet, so Bouvet calls
>> again, and while Thaddeus is tapping frantically, time slows down,
>> four seconds feel like four hours, and still the dim-witted screen
>> does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the usual finger gymnastics that
>> people do when they're trying to make their device understand that
>> they in fact want it to do something. The radio sits there stupidly,
>> the DX stops calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins. Thaddeus
>> sits there, stupefied, wondering why those &#^+! engineers at
>> Elecraft decided to put a $@_% touch screen on an otherwise perfectly
>> good radio.
>>
>> For this reason, I will never buy a radio with a touch screen. Ain't
>> gonna do it. So Elecraft, you've been put on notice.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Al W6LX
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Josh Fiden

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by NK7Z

I have an aftermarket Pioneer stereo in my car with a large touchscreen interface. It works very well and I can’t imagine how you could control a device with its level of functionality without it.

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my (touchscreen) mobile device

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 6:43 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I suspect touch screens are just a fad for rigs... Imagine one in your moving car...

______________________________________________________________
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Doug Person-5

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by Michael Walker

I've designed and developed all sorts of user interfaces. Some touch and
some not. A touch screen has several huge advantages:

1.) it can be updated. When a better approach for a particular function
is determined - a firmware update can be performed to change the user
interface.

2.) When an optional board is added (VHF/UHF, inboard-tuner, etc), the
user interface can be changed to accommodate it.

3.) Several configurations can be stored. For ex. a configuration for
contesting, one for normal ops, satellite, digital modes, etc. The idea
is that the display can be configured for each individual's preference.

A 7" touch screen is a blank canvas. Firmware changes can add or remove
anything. Buttons and switches are a one time implementation.

I understand how some people find touch screens annoying. I've seen a
lot of bad designs and they give touch screens a bad reputation. But a
well-designed screen can be just as good or even superior to rows of
buttons and switches.

Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/24/2019 7:55 PM, Michael Walker wrote:

--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Buddy Brannan

Re: The case against touch screens

While those are certainly advantages, there are several disadvantages. Number 1 on my personal hit parade: they aren’t tactile. You have to look at them to operate them. Which means, for you, another distraction. For me, it means extra support (think VoiceOver on iOS, Talkback on Android, VoiceView on the Amazon Fire things). So far, none of the ham radio manufacturers has implemented anything like that, and so touch screen interfaces on a lot of stuff are out of my reach, as it were. Of course, knobs and switches and buttons have the advantage of being able to be manipulated without having to see where they are. Pretty helpfulwhen you have to look at other things instead. Then there’s the matter of all the fingerprints…which, along with the problem of operating with gloves that are not specifically designed to work with capacitive touch screens, can be solved by use of a stylus. Still, a disadvantage, and yet another thing to remember to not leave behind.

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 10:59 AM, Doug Person <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I've designed and developed all sorts of user interfaces. Some touch and some not. A touch screen has several huge advantages:
>
> 1.) it can be updated. When a better approach for a particular function is determined - a firmware update can be performed to change the user interface.
>
> 2.) When an optional board is added (VHF/UHF, inboard-tuner, etc), the user interface can be changed to accommodate it.
>
> 3.) Several configurations can be stored. For ex. a configuration for contesting, one for normal ops, satellite, digital modes, etc. The idea is that the display can be configured for each individual's preference.
>
> A 7" touch screen is a blank canvas. Firmware changes can add or remove anything. Buttons and switches are a one time implementation.
>
> I understand how some people find touch screens annoying. I've seen a lot of bad designs and they give touch screens a bad reputation. But a well-designed screen can be just as good or even superior to rows of buttons and switches.
>
> Doug -- KJ0F
>
> On 3/24/2019 7:55 PM, Michael Walker wrote:
>> I have used all sort of user interfaces.
>>
>> Knobs, mouse, keyboard, touch screens. They all work and do what they need
>> to do.
>>
>> That being said, it comes down to what works for you.
>>
>> Mike va3mw
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 8:52 PM W2xj <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve been using touchscreens for 35 years. My experience is not what you
>>> describe. Actually it is very much the opposite. Mechanical switches are
>>> the least reliable.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Mar 24, 2019, at 8:35 PM, Al Lorona <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thaddeus sits down at the rig. Today is the day Bouvet is supposed to
>>> come on the air, and thousands of hams around the world must be tuning
>>> around at this moment trying to be the first to work the DXpedition.
>>>> He gets a feeling and tunes low in the band, turning the knob as if he
>>> were breaking into a safe. His intuition pays off: he hears a weak signal
>>> tuning up, and then... a callsign. It's Bouvet! Instant rush. Instant
>>> clammy hands. He reaches to tap the Split button on his fancy new rig's
>>> touch screen. He taps again. The screen does nothing. Oh no, not now, touch
>>> screen. Please recognize my finger... please! Bouvet turns it over, but
>>> nobody has heard them yet, so Bouvet calls again, and while Thaddeus is
>>> tapping frantically, time slows down, four seconds feel like four hours,
>>> and still the dim-witted screen does nothing as Thaddeus begins all the
>>> usual finger gymnastics that people do when they're trying to make their
>>> device understand that they in fact want it to do something. The radio sits
>>> there stupidly, the DX stops calling, and then the pileup mayhem begins.
>>> Thaddeus sits there, stupefied, wondering why those &#^+! engineers at
>>> Elecraft decided to put a $@_% touch screen on an otherwise perfectly good
>>> radio.
>>>> For this reason, I will never buy a radio with a touch screen. Ain't
>>> gonna do it. So Elecraft, you've been put on notice.
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Al W6LX
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
> --
> 73 de Doug -- KJ0F
>
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Doug Person-5

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by alorona

You assume that touch screens are inherently unreliable. Try to convince
and F22 pilot of that, or a 777 gunnery crew. There is so much military
hardware that is dependent on touch screens that your argument just
doesn't hold up. This technology is decades old now. You may find some
poorly designed stuff that is unreliable. But, its due to poor design -
both physically and in software. Hopefully, if there is a touch screen
K4, the K3s will stay around for those that prefer buttons and switches.

Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/24/2019 7:35 PM, Al Lorona wrote:

Elecraft mailing list

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by Buddy Brannan

I think all the comments argue for flexibility in a K4 UI. Even the lowly UBITX (not a dig) has a plethora of touch screen and non-touch screen options these days that make it relatively easy to personalize your rig to your preferences. I'd like an option to plug in a screen, touch or otherwise, that I could define depending on what I was doing that day, and while you're at it, a few user definable encoders on the KPOD. All of that would make radio location a lot less critical than it is, at least for me now. I've tried different approaches but the size of the radio and display pretty much mandates that for the old guy it sits elevated in the middle of the desk. With an optional display, and a couple of definable encoders on the KPOD, I could park the radio somewhere else and see and do what I wanted much more easily. Scott ka9p -----Original Message-----
From: Buddy Brannan <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2019 10:19 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

While those are certainly advantages, there are several disadvantages. Number 1 on my personal hit parade: they aren’t tactile. You have to look at them to operate them. Which means, for you, another distraction. For me, it means extra support (think VoiceOver on iOS, Talkback on Android, VoiceView on the Amazon Fire things). So far, none of the ham radio manufacturers has implemented anything like that, and so touch screen interfaces on a lot of stuff are out of my reach, as it were. Of course, knobs and switches and buttons have the advantage of being able to be manipulated without having to see where they are. Pretty helpfulwhen you have to look at other things instead. Then there’s the matter of all the fingerprints…which, along with the problem of operating with gloves that are not specifically designed to work with capacitive touch screens, can be solved by use of a stylus. Still, a disadvantage, and yet another thing to remember to not leave behind.

Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: [hidden email]
Mobile: (814) 431-0962

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Don Wilhelm

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by Buddy Brannan

Touch screens do not provide support for blind amateur operators.
Elecraft has always said they will provide support for blind operators.
I just wonder how touchscreens fit into that commitment.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/25/2019 11:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> While those are certainly advantages, there are several disadvantages. Number 1 on my personal hit parade: they aren’t tactile. You have to look at them to operate them. Which means, for you, another distraction. For me, it means extra support (think VoiceOver on iOS, Talkback on Android, VoiceView on the Amazon Fire things). So far, none of the ham radio manufacturers has implemented anything like that, and so touch screen interfaces on a lot of stuff are out of my reach, as it were. Of course, knobs and switches and buttons have the advantage of being able to be manipulated without having to see where they are.
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wayne burdick

Re: The case against touch screens

Administrator

We've always provided a host API that access to virtually 100% of the controls so voice interfaces can be designed for attached computers. This would be true even if we did a radio with a touch screen.

And as I said earlier, the emphasis should be on hard controls for things used most often.

Wayne
N6KR

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:02 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Touch screens do not provide support for blind amateur operators. Elecraft has always said they will provide support for blind operators.
> I just wonder how touchscreens fit into that commitment.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/25/2019 11:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> While those are certainly advantages, there are several disadvantages. Number 1 on my personal hit parade: they aren’t tactile. You have to look at them to operate them. Which means, for you, another distraction. For me, it means extra support (think VoiceOver on iOS, Talkback on Android, VoiceView on the Amazon Fire things). So far, none of the ham radio manufacturers has implemented anything like that, and so touch screen interfaces on a lot of stuff are out of my reach, as it were. Of course, knobs and switches and buttons have the advantage of being able to be manipulated without having to see where they are.
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by Doug Person-5

RE: You assume that touch screens are inherently unreliable. Try to convince
and F22 pilot of that, or a 777 gunnery crew.

You assume that aircraft with flat panel displays utilize touch screens. The military aircraft I have worked (Design Engineering) that have flat panel displays do NOT utilize touch displays. The reasons are primarily touch resolution, and stability.

Military pilots must be able to select functions while wearing heavy gloves, so they do not have great resolution as to where their touch will land. They must also be able to reliably select functions during high G loading, both natural (turbulence) and induced (maneuvering). Consequently, their flat displays usually consist of the main display, surrounded by hardware buttons (switches) which are separated with raised "dividers" or "walls" to separate the buttons. These buttons have small on-screen labels that change depending on which screen is being displayed. We used to call these "soft buttons".

I could go on, but will stop with that. While I love the modern flat screen color displays (my uBITX will have one soon), I must side with Wayne in that the functions that must be addressed when time is critical (can't remember how Wayne described it) should be hard buttons or "soft buttons" noted above).

Mark,
KE6BB

On Monday, March 25, 2019, 8:45:26 AM PDT, Doug Person <[hidden email]> wrote:

You assume that touch screens are inherently unreliable. Try to convince
and F22 pilot of that, or a 777 gunnery crew. There is so much military
hardware that is dependent on touch screens that your argument just
doesn't hold up. This technology is decades old now. You may find some
poorly designed stuff that is unreliable. But, its due to poor design -
both physically and in software. Hopefully, if there is a touch screen
K4, the K3s will stay around for those that prefer buttons and switches.

Doug -- KJ0F

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alorona

Re: The case against touch screens

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

I don't think you guys understood me. I shouldn't have veiled my concern with a tongue-in-cheek post.

So I will be direct. I was referring to the physiological event of touching a screen with a finger. It must be just me, because a large percentage of the time a touch screen does not respond to my finger. I have experienced this at ATMs, at the self checkout at Home Depot, at the airport, on my smart phone, etc. When you have to stand there, tapping over and over to get them to respond, touch screens just aren't as reliable, responsive, accurate, or fast as a control.

Touch screens are beautiful, but they seem to ignore me. My fingers are low-capacitance, I guess! For that reason, I wouldn't tolerate one any more than I would tolerate a sticky volume control that took three or four twists before the volume turned up. None of us would put up with that.

I'm a little surprised others haven't had the same experience as Thaddeus. Maybe they're just too shy to admit it.

The next time you tap something on your phone, and you have to tap again to get it to work, I want you to think of me.

Al W6LX
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