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UTILITY Improvements

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Tony Scesny

UTILITY Improvements

Hi All...I Guess we are all worn out from FD , but as others said, the
K3 worked wonders.
With all that operating behind us, I found that it would be nice to
have an easier way to change the data in the 00-99 Memory locations. I
was wondering if the Utility Program can expanded so we can READ, EDIT,
ERASE, SAVE and REPLACE key DATA elements such as the text that is
entered by hand into each of the 00-99 memories in a similar manner
that the Filter Configuration can be managed. I know it can save
Configuation Files but they cant be edited. It is a great tool now and
it is just begging (?) to be expanded. What do you think?

73's Tony K2ZLS
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Dick Dievendorff

RE: UTILITY Improvements

I've heard this request before. It's being considered. It requires support
work in the MCU firmware as well as the K3 Utility.

I'm not sure whether this should be part of the K3 Utility (whose function
is firmware loading and initial setup configuration) and a more general
program like Ham Radio Deluxe that is an "operational support - connected
all the time" sort of program. Maybe memory save/restore belongs in that
category of program.

Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of K2ZLS
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:41 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] UTILITY Improvements

Hi All...I Guess we are all worn out from FD , but as others said, the
K3 worked wonders.
With all that operating behind us, I found that it would be nice to
have an easier way to change the data in the 00-99 Memory locations. I
was wondering if the Utility Program can expanded so we can READ, EDIT,
ERASE, SAVE and REPLACE key DATA elements such as the text that is
entered by hand into each of the 00-99 memories in a similar manner
that the Filter Configuration can be managed. I know it can save
Configuation Files but they cant be edited. It is a great tool now and
it is just begging (?) to be expanded. What do you think?

73's Tony K2ZLS
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.k8dd.-2

Re: UTILITY Improvements

And a good request it is .....
There are functions in the K3 Utility program to copy CW and RTTY that other
programs can handle.
Then there is the the function to send commands to the K3.
And you can back up the configuration (but not the memories). And set the
filters.
I guess I'd like to be able to back up the configuration, memories and
filter setup to the logging PC, a network drive, a CD or a USB memory.
Now that would be great!

73 Hank K8DD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Dievendorff" <[hidden email]>
To: "'K2ZLS'" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 8:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [K3] UTILITY Improvements

> I've heard this request before. It's being considered. It requires
> support
> work in the MCU firmware as well as the K3 Utility.
>
> I'm not sure whether this should be part of the K3 Utility (whose function
> is firmware loading and initial setup configuration) and a more general
> program like Ham Radio Deluxe that is an "operational support - connected
> all the time" sort of program. Maybe memory save/restore belongs in that
> category of program.
>
>
> Dick, K6KR

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Brett Howard

Re: UTILITY Improvements

In reply to this post by Tony Scesny

I'd also like to see the CW memories and things like that that all get
changed for events like that be things that are able to be backed up in
the configuration.

Also is there any way to REALLY clear the radio. Holding down shift/low
and powering up does a reset of the parameters but things like CW
memories are still there. I've been trying to completely reset it back
to time zero to see if that can fix my ERR TXG problems that came up
during FD.

~Brett

On Sun, 2008-06-29 at 19:40 -0500, K2ZLS wrote:

> Hi All...I Guess we are all worn out from FD , but as others said, the
> K3 worked wonders.
> With all that operating behind us, I found that it would be nice to
> have an easier way to change the data in the 00-99 Memory locations. I
> was wondering if the Utility Program can expanded so we can READ, EDIT,
> ERASE, SAVE and REPLACE key DATA elements such as the text that is
> entered by hand into each of the 00-99 memories in a similar manner
> that the Filter Configuration can be managed. I know it can save
> Configuation Files but they cant be edited. It is a great tool now and
> it is just begging (?) to be expanded. What do you think?
>
> 73's Tony K2ZLS
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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Thomas Norff

RE: UTILITY Improvements

In reply to this post by Dick Dievendorff

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dick Dievendorff
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:12 AM
...
Maybe memory save/restore belongs in that category of program.
Dick, K6KR
...
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:41 PM

With all that operating behind us, I found that it would be nice to have an
easier way to change the data in the 00-99 Memory locations. I was
wondering if the Utility Program can expanded so we can READ, EDIT, ERASE,
SAVE and REPLACE key DATA elements such as the text that is entered by hand
into each of the 00-99 memories in a similar manner that the Filter
Configuration can be managed. I know it can save Configuation Files but
they cant be edited. It is a great tool now and
it is just begging (?) to be expanded. What do you think?

73's Tony K2ZLS

######################################

Lets do it....

As a possible starting point:

1 - use excel to manage the memory tables
- edit, insert, delete, sort, ...
2 - define an interchange format, which would be usable by any tool in
any environment ...
- such as
<config>
</config>
<memory>
<mem00>
<frequency>
<value>
</frequency>
...
</mem00>
...
</memory>
3 - write an import/export function for the excel tool
4 - test for possible methods to get this information into the K3
- via frontend commands, like a user would do it
- direct modification in the K3-Utility config file
- direct modification in the K3 itself

Maybe Simon can inform us if he is already working on that... ;o)

Any comments are welcome ! => PLEASE USE "[K3]UTILITY" in your Subject

73 de Thomas, DM7TN

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k0wa@swbell.net

RE: UTILITY Improvements

Why not use XML so interchange could be universal? That way people can send each other their set ups. That could be interesting. And, you could change set ups depending on what you want to do

Lee- K0WA

In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine?
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N5GE

Re: UTILITY Improvements

In reply to this post by Thomas Norff

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 01:06:21 +0200, "Thomas Norff" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email]
>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dick Dievendorff
>Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:12 AM
>...
>Maybe memory save/restore belongs in that category of program.
>Dick, K6KR
>...
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:41 PM
>
>With all that operating behind us, I found that it would be nice to have an
>easier way to change the data in the 00-99 Memory locations. I was
>wondering if the Utility Program can expanded so we can READ, EDIT, ERASE,
>SAVE and REPLACE key DATA elements such as the text that is entered by hand
>into each of the 00-99 memories in a similar manner that the Filter
>Configuration can be managed. I know it can save Configuation Files but
>they cant be edited. It is a great tool now and
>it is just begging (?) to be expanded. What do you think?
>
>73's Tony K2ZLS
>
>######################################
>
>Lets do it....
>
>As a possible starting point:
>
> 1 - use excel to manage the memory tables
> - edit, insert, delete, sort, ...
> 2 - define an interchange format, which would be usable by any tool in
>any environment ...
> - such as
> <config>
> </config>
> <memory>
> <mem00>
> <frequency>
> <value>
> </frequency>
> ...
> </mem00>
> ...
> </memory>
> 3 - write an import/export function for the excel tool
> 4 - test for possible methods to get this information into the K3
> - via frontend commands, like a user would do it
> - direct modification in the K3-Utility config file
> - direct modification in the K3 itself
>
>Maybe Simon can inform us if he is already working on that... ;o)
>
>Any comments are welcome ! => PLEASE USE "[K3]UTILITY" in your Subject
>
>73 de Thomas, DM7TN
>
>

[snip]

I'd use that if it were available, but not if it were in an Excel based
solution. Excel is too bloated with unused functionality... and not everyone
has access to it.

Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

"Those who would give up
Essential Liberty to
purchase a little Temporary
Safety deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety"

An excerpt from a letter
written in 1755 from the
Assembly to the Governor
of Pennsylvania.

Support the entire Constitution, not
just the parts you like.

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

alsopb

RE: UTILITY Improvements

In reply to this post by k0wa@swbell.net

Heck no. Go with ASCII.

I don't know why people want to complicate the dickens out of things.
We're not talking about graphics. Simply numbers and text.

KISS & see your common sense quote below
DE Brian/K3KO

Lee Buller wrote

Why not use XML so interchange could be universal? That way people can send each other their set ups. That could be interesting. And, you could change set ups depending on what you want to do

Lee- K0WA

In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine?
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Bob Serwy

RE: RE: UTILITY Improvements

XML is for numbers and text.

Bob Serwy - N9RS

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of K3KO
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 8:18 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [K3] RE: [Elecraft] UTILITY Improvements

Heck no. Go with ASCII.

I don't know why people want to complicate the dickens out of things.
We're not talking about graphics. Simply numbers and text.

KISS & see your common sense quote below DE Brian/K3KO

Lee Buller wrote:

>
>
>
> Why not use XML so interchange could be universal? That way people
> can send each other their set ups. That could be interesting. And,
> you could change set ups depending on what you want to do
>
> Lee- K0WA
>
>
>
> In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If
> you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.
> If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has
> some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine?
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>

--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/UTILITY-Improvements-tp18186639p18228449.html
Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Dick Dievendorff

RE: RE: UTILITY Improvements

In reply to this post by alsopb

The set of parameters associated with any given frequency memory is larger
than one might imagine and has been fluid. Any single-line option (perhaps
comma-separated-variables) would be obsolete very quickly, as Wayne is
changing the frequency memory attributes quite often.

Some tagged language like XML would be a better choice, sorry.

Dick

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of K3KO
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 6:18 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [K3] RE: [Elecraft] UTILITY Improvements

Heck no. Go with ASCII.

I don't know why people want to complicate the dickens out of things.
We're not talking about graphics. Simply numbers and text.

KISS & see your common sense quote below
DE Brian/K3KO

Lee Buller wrote:

>
>
>
> Why not use XML so interchange could be universal? That way people can
> send each other their set ups. That could be interesting. And, you could
> change set ups depending on what you want to do
>
> Lee- K0WA
>
>
>
> In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you
> don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you
> can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some
> Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine?
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>

Dick Dievendorff

RE: UTILITY Improvements

In reply to this post by N5GE

We can't introduce a dependency on a fee product like Microsoft Excel.
However there are a number of free XML editors. And comma-separated
variable files can be manipulated with other tools.

Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom Childers, N5GE
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:46 PM
To: Thomas Norff
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] UTILITY Improvements

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 01:06:21 +0200, "Thomas Norff" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

hand

>into each of the 00-99 memories in a similar manner that the Filter
>Configuration can be managed. I know it can save Configuation Files but
>they cant be edited. It is a great tool now and
>it is just begging (?) to be expanded. What do you think?
>
>73's Tony K2ZLS
>
>######################################
>
>Lets do it....
>
>As a possible starting point:
>
> 1 - use excel to manage the memory tables
> - edit, insert, delete, sort, ...
> 2 - define an interchange format, which would be usable by any tool

>any environment ...
> - such as
> <config>
> </config>
> <memory>
> <mem00>
> <frequency>
> <value>
> </frequency>
> ...
> </mem00>
> ...
> </memory>
> 3 - write an import/export function for the excel tool
> 4 - test for possible methods to get this information into the K3
> - via frontend commands, like a user would do it
> - direct modification in the K3-Utility config file
> - direct modification in the K3 itself
>
>Maybe Simon can inform us if he is already working on that... ;o)
>
>Any comments are welcome ! => PLEASE USE "[K3]UTILITY" in your Subject
>
>73 de Thomas, DM7TN
>
>

[snip]

I'd use that if it were available, but not if it were in an Excel based
solution. Excel is too bloated with unused functionality... and not
everyone
has access to it.

Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

"Those who would give up
Essential Liberty to
purchase a little Temporary
Safety deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety"

An excerpt from a letter
written in 1755 from the
Assembly to the Governor
of Pennsylvania.

Support the entire Constitution, not
just the parts you like.

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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N5GE

Re: UTILITY Improvements

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 19:47:55 -0700, "Dick Dievendorff" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>We can't introduce a dependency on a fee product like Microsoft Excel.
>However there are a number of free XML editors. And comma-separated
>variable files can be manipulated with other tools.
>
>
>Dick, K6KR
>
>

[snip]

I agree that fee based products are not a good solution.

Delimited files like CSV files would be smaller, but harder to read and
understand by humans.

XML files require more storage, but the description of each field goes along
with the data. In the case where data layout changes rapidly XML would be the
better choice, because software that reads the data could be more flexible when
fields are added or taken away.

Tom, N5GE

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Brett Howard

RE: UTILITY Improvements

In reply to this post by k0wa@swbell.net

Agreed XML could be a good way to set things up. As well it would be
helpful for Elecraft in the future as if you're having trouble they can
ask you to send in your config and they can quickly open it and find
problems if they're in there.

I was kinda hoping that when I read the config out of my radio before FD
that when I loaded stuff back in that all my CW memories would be back
to the way they were and all the memories.

Thankfully it sounds like the ability to erase memories is coming soon.
I'm sure there still won't be a way to erase a CW memory but man it
would be great to be able to suck out the whole radio and then mess with
things for FD or whatever and then poof blow it all back in after the
fact.

On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 17:05 -0700, Lee Buller wrote:

>
> Why not use XML so interchange could be universal? That way people can send each other their set ups. That could be interesting. And, you could change set ups depending on what you want to do
>
> Lee- K0WA
>
>
>
> In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine?
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Ralph Tyrrell

RE: UTILITY Improvements

What is XML?

I looked it up it is "Extensible Markup Language (XML)"

I still do not know what to do with it.
Oh well, another language to learn. It does keep the mind working.

73, Ty, W1TF

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John King-10

RE: UTILITY Improvements - XML

In reply to this post by N5GE

I would vote for XML as well. It's porky, but it's
human readable, it's universal and well supported
by many applications and frameworks, and one can
easily edit it by hand with Notepad or Emacs or
whatever.

73,
john WA1ABI
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Brett Howard

RE: UTILITY Improvements

In reply to this post by Ralph Tyrrell

If you've seen HTML its somewhat similar. XML is like HTML but with
more stringent rules. Its VERY human readable and quite simple to work
with. As far as the argument that it results in large files people are
living in the past. Broadband is becoming more and more common place
and USB sticks are going to be able to hold them no problem. If people
really want to live in the stone age I'm certain that they'll still fit
on a 3.5" floppy.

On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 21:10 -0700, Ralph Tyrrell wrote:

> What is XML?
>
> I looked it up it is "Extensible Markup Language (XML)"
>
> I still do not know what to do with it.
> Oh well, another language to learn. It does keep the mind working.
>
> 73, Ty, W1TF
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Julian, G4ILO

RE: UTILITY Improvements

In reply to this post by alsopb

K3KO wrote

Heck no. Go with ASCII.

I don't know why people want to complicate the dickens out of things.
We're not talking about graphics. Simply numbers and text.

KISS & see your common sense quote below
DE Brian/K3KO

But XML is simple to use, Brian. Any decent programming language already has a class that deals with it. You would just address it like: memory number, frequency, mode, whatever. You don't have to think about how it is stored because the person who developed the class took care of that for you.

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

alsopb

Re: UTILITY Improvements

In reply to this post by N5GE

I think you guys have to look at some recent history. Even in this day
and age ASCII like files are use extensively--even for new applications..
For example ADIF and Cabrillo files (LOTW and contest logging programs)
These are not necessarily small files. ADIF files do have the "tags"
people seem to thing are really important. I don't know about other
programs, but I have several whose initialization (.INI) files are also
ASCII.
.
They can be read and manipulated with any old text editor.

My butt has been saved many times by having the ability to directly read
and replace pieces of the above files simply. I can't say the same for
other magic file formats.

Going to something like XML is shooting many people in the foot.

The pencil and paper clip are still alive. Reason: they do the job
simply and cheaply.

For me, I guess it really won't matter. The maximum number of memories
that I'll ever be able to reliable associate with buttons is a few.
Scrolling through 99 choices to find what I want just doesn't seem very
appealing.

73 de Brian/K3KO

Tom Childers, N5GE wrote:

>On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 19:47:55 -0700, "Dick Dievendorff" <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>We can't introduce a dependency on a fee product like Microsoft Excel.
>>However there are a number of free XML editors. And comma-separated
>>variable files can be manipulated with other tools.
>>
>>
>>Dick, K6KR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>[snip]
>
>I agree that fee based products are not a good solution.
>
>Delimited files like CSV files would be smaller, but harder to read and
>understand by humans.
>
>XML files require more storage, but the description of each field goes along
>with the data. In the case where data layout changes rapidly XML would be the
>better choice, because software that reads the data could be more flexible when
>fields are added or taken away.
>
>Tom, N5GE
>
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Simon (HB9DRV)

Re: UTILITY Improvements

The end user should have no need to look at the XML file, the software you
use will do this for you via a fine user-friendly UI irrespective of the
platform you are using.

An XML file is very easy to edit with Notepad or the editor of your choice.

On http://mannindustries.net/hrd/Junk/ I have two examples of XML files used
in my satellite tracking software:

http://mannindustries.net/hrd/Junk/SatTrackChildWindows.xml which contains
the layout of the windows to be opened when the program starts.

http://mannindustries.net/hrd/Junk/SatTrackObserverDefinitions.xml which
contains a list of satellite observers.

The end user never sees these files but anyone who understands XML can read
them, they are simple to parse (even with Microsoft's XML classes) and are
*very* robust.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Brian Alsop" <[hidden email]>

>
> Going to something like XML is shooting many people in the foot.
>
> The pencil and paper clip are still alive. Reason: they do the job simply
> and cheaply.
>
> For me, I guess it really won't matter. The maximum number of memories
> that I'll ever be able to reliable associate with buttons is a few.
> Scrolling through 99 choices to find what I want just doesn't seem very
> appealing.

S Sacco

Re: UTILITY Improvements - XML

In reply to this post by John King-10

The "porkiness" of XML is only a factor with large volumes of data.

It would be entirely appropriate to use in this application.

73,
Steve

On 7/2/08, John King <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I would vote for XML as well. It's porky, but it's
> human readable, it's universal and well supported
> by many applications and frameworks, and one can
> easily edit it by hand with Notepad or Emacs or
> whatever.
>
> 73,
> john WA1ABI
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