Use of external speakers/amp

[Rick Stealey]

Over on qth.com in the forums area (the "Talk" sub-forum) is a discussion called "A sad thing happened
on the way to a more perfect receiver."  Some interesting topics came up in the discussion, such
as
- Are DSP based receivers fatiguing to listen to for long periods of time?
- The benefits of using external audio amps and speakers.

In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners might have done.
Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type speakers with audio
amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?

I have been experimenting with the receiver equalization, using an external Collins 312B4 speaker
but still don't have the audio to the way I want it, and I wonder if the internal audio amp might
be pushed to its limits in normal operation?  When I say it's not the way I want it, that is not
something I can quantify, at all!  I just haven't been able to make SSB sound smooth and mellow
like I want.  I won't go so far as to say it is fatiguing.  K3 has the stock ssb filter.

Rick  K2XT
K3 #3814
     
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[alsopb]

First question to ask when somebody recommends a particular
speaker/audio amp combo:  "Are you using a hearing aid?"

This isn't meant to demean anybody.  It simply is a hugely important
variable to consider when one evaluates whether their recommendation
would be useful to you.

73 de Brian/K3KO



On 10/4/2010 13:16, Rick Stealey wrote:

> In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners might have done.
> Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type speakers with audio
> amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?
>
> I have been experimenting with the receiver equalization, using an external Collins 312B4 speaker
> but still don't have the audio to the way I want it, and I wonder if the internal audio amp might
> be pushed to its limits in normal operation?  When I say it's not the way I want it, that is not
> something I can quantify, at all!  I just haven't been able to make SSB sound smooth and mellow
> like I want.  I won't go so far as to say it is fatiguing.  K3 has the stock ssb filter.
>
> Rick  K2XT
> K3 #3814

No virus found in this outgoing message.
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[MontyS]

?Rick -

There are definite advantages to stereo speakers, as the K3 can produce
stereo audio in several configurations.  Amplified speakers can suffer from
RF interference - I use Apple amplified speakers and had to open them up to
do a lot of bypassing.  The K3's audio output can easily drive stereo
speakers that are designed for low-level audio amps.

The audio circuits remove any digital artifacts as they are inherently low
bandwidth.  Some DSP circuits produce distorted audio; any distorted audio
would be tiring to listen to.  You will find settings on the K3 that please
your ear, I'm sure.  No modern radio will sound like an NC-125, KM1, or any
of the very old tube radios.  That's because modern radios have no hum. (!)
Monty  K2DLJ

> - Are DSP based receivers fatiguing to listen to for long periods of time?
> - The benefits of using external audio amps and speakers.
 

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[Dick Dickinson]

Hi Rick,

The K3 is capable of sounding smooth and mellow while listening to SSB.  I
run my sound through my computer and into an inexpensive, but decent
sounding surround sound receiver...5.1 and decent Hi-Fi speakers.  Only 2
channels apply...I rarely turn on the subwoofer and never for amateur radio.

My biggest problem has been an exceptional amount of line noise this summer.
I even took the K3 off the sound system and into a simple external speaker.
I've had a heck of a time trying to balance S9+ line noise against most
signals.

In good conditions, the system can sound marvelous.  As well, the
PowerSDR-IF software, via the LP-Pan and also through the computer can sound
exceptional.  That method actually uses a separate sound card and the
'onboard soundcard.'

Given good receiving conditions, both the K3 and the LP-Pan/PowerSDR-IF
'receiver' can produce exceptional sound, rich and full through my Hi-Fi
system.

Now...about that country acreage...


73,
Dick - KA5KKT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
Over on qth.com in the forums area (the "Talk" sub-forum) is a discussion
called "A sad thing happened
on the way to a more perfect receiver."  Some interesting topics came up in
the discussion, such
as
- Are DSP based receivers fatiguing to listen to for long periods of time?
- The benefits of using external audio amps and speakers.

In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners might
have done.
Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type speakers
with audio
amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?

I have been experimenting with the receiver equalization, using an external
Collins 312B4 speaker
but still don't have the audio to the way I want it, and I wonder if the
internal audio amp might
be pushed to its limits in normal operation?  When I say it's not the way I
want it, that is not
something I can quantify, at all!  I just haven't been able to make SSB
sound smooth and mellow
like I want.  I won't go so far as to say it is fatiguing.  K3 has the stock
ssb filter.

Rick  K2XT
K3 #3814
 

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[John Ragle]

  This is a loaded question, like "when did you stop beating your wife?"
It implies that there is something wrong with the K3 audio.

I have used both the K2 and K3 for some time, and as far as I can tell,
there is nothing wrong in this department. There is more than enough
gain to blast one out of the room or to fry one's ears using headphones,
and the range depends in the normal way on the bandpass used in the
receiver.

Voice spectrum is scarce, and there is little excuse for using more of
this resource than is necessary for effective communication. I think
that almost all SSB operators realize the need and even the
effectiveness and utility of band-limiting their TX. A quick look on the
P3 or some other spectrum display will convince one of this. We should
be thankful that people don't insist on transmitting the full range of
audio frequencies that make up the human voice.

Since what goes in dictates what comes out, it is unrealistic to hope
for broadcast quality reception. Perhaps more careful attention to
tuning SSB signals is needed...it does not take much offset to replace
the human with Donald Duck.

John Ragle -- W1ZI

=====
> On 10/4/2010 13:16, Rick Stealey wrote:
>
>> In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners
>> might have done.
>> Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type
>> speakers with audio
>> amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

  Rick,

Some DSP based receivers are capable of producing great audio.  
Consider that CD audio is an implementation of DSP.  How close to CD
quality any practical receiver can come depends on the sampling rates
and the number of bits in the A-D and D-A conversions.

Inexpensive amplified speakers can sound bad, although some sound quite
good.  I would suggest using unamplified speakers with the K3 - I was
able to pick up some old RS Optimus speakers and those are currently on
my K3.  I have also driven a good quality stereo receiver equipped with
large stereo speakers - the K3 sounds good within the restrictions
imposed by the highest frequency that the K3 audio will go - 4 kHz.

You may be trying to straighten out a deficient speaker response with
the K3 RX-EQ.  I run my K3 with all the EQ settings at zero.  Many
speakers that are just speakers in a box (usually with an open back)
will have many irritating peaks in their response curve.  I prefer small
Hi-Fi speakers over any of the speakers normally found with ham gear.

Since Brian has suggested - yes, I wear hearing aids, but I normally
listen with the response set for a flat response without noise reduction
- my audiologist set up a special "music" program for me.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/4/2010 9:16 AM, Rick Stealey wrote:

> Over on qth.com in the forums area (the "Talk" sub-forum) is a discussion called "A sad thing happened
> on the way to a more perfect receiver."  Some interesting topics came up in the discussion, such
> as
> - Are DSP based receivers fatiguing to listen to for long periods of time?
> - The benefits of using external audio amps and speakers.
>
> In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners might have done.
> Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type speakers with audio
> amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?
>
> I have been experimenting with the receiver equalization, using an external Collins 312B4 speaker
> but still don't have the audio to the way I want it, and I wonder if the internal audio amp might
> be pushed to its limits in normal operation?  When I say it's not the way I want it, that is not
> something I can quantify, at all!  I just haven't been able to make SSB sound smooth and mellow
> like I want.  I won't go so far as to say it is fatiguing.  K3 has the stock ssb filter.
>
> Rick  K2XT
> K3 #3814
>    
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

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[Tom Hammond-2]

Hi Rick:

Initially, I added a pair of Motorola (mobile) amplified speakers to
my K2 (and subsequently to my K3) installation.  I found that having
a PAIR of speakers on
the audio output of the K2 and K3 made a significant improvement in
my enjoyment of listening and I seemed to have to 'work' less to hear
signals.  And YES, my hearing is just fine (well... unless you ask my XYL...).

The speakers worked nicely, but the DC connections just meant more
wires that had to be connected.

I then (about 2-3 years ago, I guess) switched to a pair of Motorola
UN-amplified mobile speakers to replace the amplified pair I had been
using.  I found these speakers on EBay for a total of $15 (shipped).

The new (3.2 Ohm) speakers work just great, have more than ample
audio output for use in my somewhat noisy (at times) shack, and give
me the audio quality I want for my (99% CW) operation... they also
sound great on SSB, though they're certainly NOT tailored toward the
hi-fi SSB scene.

ANY time you insert a set of amplified speakers into the ham station,
you're risking problems with potential RFI into the amplifiers and
then the associated fight to quell the RFI.  I'd much prefer to go
with UNamplified speakers, if I can find the right ones.

The K3 audio system 'likes' a speaker load in the 4 Ohm range.  8-Ohm
speakers should give adequate reproduction, but will generally not
produce nearly as much output as a speaker more closely matching the
desired 4-Ohm load.  The K3 seems to really like the 3.2 Ohm Motorola speakers.

73,

Tom Hammond   N0SS

At 08:16 10/04/2010, you wrote:

>Over on qth.com in the forums area (the "Talk" sub-forum) is a
>discussion called "A sad thing happened
>on the way to a more perfect receiver."  Some interesting topics
>came up in the discussion, such
>as
>- Are DSP based receivers fatiguing to listen to for long periods of time?
>- The benefits of using external audio amps and speakers.
>
>In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners
>might have done.
>Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type
>speakers with audio
>amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?
>
>I have been experimenting with the receiver equalization, using an
>external Collins 312B4 speaker
>but still don't have the audio to the way I want it, and I wonder if
>the internal audio amp might
>be pushed to its limits in normal operation?  When I say it's not
>the way I want it, that is not
>something I can quantify, at all!  I just haven't been able to make
>SSB sound smooth and mellow
>like I want.  I won't go so far as to say it is fatiguing.  K3 has
>the stock ssb filter.
>
>Rick  K2XT
>K3 #3814
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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[Phillip Lontz]

Ah yes the endless quest for great "tone". Yesterday there was a YL in the Calif QSO party. She was W6RER In Butt county. Her voice was clean very clear but what got me was the quality and tone of her voice. It was very easy to listen to. Good tone. Warm sounding with out being mushy. But as I said, clear but not edgy at all.
It seemed she had the perfect mike / eq / radio combo.
Wonder what she was using?
I have my K3 and K2 outputs driving a pair of Fostex alnico full range speakers. The cabs are of a modest size but built with 3/4" plywood. It is my belief that the alnico magnet is one of the reasons the "tone" in my system is as good as it is. Today it is fairly rare to find alnico in speakers. (expensive) it also helps to have speakers that are fairly efficient... Over 90db per watt. With 96 db or better being a good target. The more efficient the speaker the less work the amp has to do and therefore lower distortion. I use simple pencil tube stereo homebuilt amp to drive the Fostex speakers or headphones. Headphone are the AKG 701.
Sometimes the ssb transmissions sound like good or even great AM broadcast. Good tone for me is what it's all about.

Phil
Santa Fe, NM


Build your own gear...
Grow your own food.
 

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 4, 2010, at 8:28 AM, John Ragle <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  This is a loaded question, like "when did you stop beating your wife?"
> It implies that there is something wrong with the K3 audio.
>
> I have used both the K2 and K3 for some time, and as far as I can tell,
> there is nothing wrong in this department. There is more than enough
> gain to blast one out of the room or to fry one's ears using headphones,
> and the range depends in the normal way on the bandpass used in the
> receiver.
>
> Voice spectrum is scarce, and there is little excuse for using more of
> this resource than is necessary for effective communication. I think
> that almost all SSB operators realize the need and even the
> effectiveness and utility of band-limiting their TX. A quick look on the
> P3 or some other spectrum display will convince one of this. We should
> be thankful that people don't insist on transmitting the full range of
> audio frequencies that make up the human voice.
>
> Since what goes in dictates what comes out, it is unrealistic to hope
> for broadcast quality reception. Perhaps more careful attention to
> tuning SSB signals is needed...it does not take much offset to replace
> the human with Donald Duck.
>
> John Ragle -- W1ZI
>
> =====
>> On 10/4/2010 13:16, Rick Stealey wrote:
>>
>>> In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners
>>> might have done.
>>> Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type
>>> speakers with audio
>>> amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[Dick Dickinson]

I don't know who is loading what in this response to a query for improved
sound.  Rick's question indicates nothing unreasonable or unachievable.
What amateur radio receiver cannot benefit from improvements to the audio
chain outside of the equipment itself?  Additionally, he's not asking that
anyone broaden, or otherwise change their TX audio.


73,
Dick - KA5KKT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

  This is a loaded question, like "when did you stop beating your wife?"
It implies that there is something wrong with the K3 audio.

I have used both the K2 and K3 for some time, and as far as I can tell,
there is nothing wrong in this department. There is more than enough
gain to blast one out of the room or to fry one's ears using headphones,
and the range depends in the normal way on the bandpass used in the
receiver.

Voice spectrum is scarce, and there is little excuse for using more of
this resource than is necessary for effective communication. I think
that almost all SSB operators realize the need and even the
effectiveness and utility of band-limiting their TX. A quick look on the
P3 or some other spectrum display will convince one of this. We should
be thankful that people don't insist on transmitting the full range of
audio frequencies that make up the human voice.

Since what goes in dictates what comes out, it is unrealistic to hope
for broadcast quality reception. Perhaps more careful attention to
tuning SSB signals is needed...it does not take much offset to replace
the human with Donald Duck.

John Ragle -- W1ZI

=====
> On 10/4/2010 13:16, Rick Stealey wrote:
>
>> In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners
>> might have done.
>> Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type
>> speakers with audio
>> amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

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[Andy Faber]

Phil,
  That would be Ginny, N6RER, XYL of Bill, K6KM.  I'm copying her with this
message, so maybe she can explain her set up to you.  She's a naturally
warm-sounding person, so maybe that's part of it, hi.
  73, andy, ae6y
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Townsend" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Use of external speakers/amp

> Ah yes the endless quest for great "tone". Yesterday there was a YL in the
> Calif QSO party. She was W6RER In Butt county. Her voice was clean very
> clear but what got me was the quality and tone of her voice. It was very
> easy to listen to. Good tone. Warm sounding with out being mushy. But as I
> said, clear but not edgy at all.
> It seemed she had the perfect mike / eq / radio combo.
> Wonder what she was using?
> I have my K3 and K2 outputs driving a pair of Fostex alnico full range
> speakers. The cabs are of a modest size but built with 3/4" plywood. It is
> my belief that the alnico magnet is one of the reasons the "tone" in my
> system is as good as it is. Today it is fairly rare to find alnico in
> speakers. (expensive) it also helps to have speakers that are fairly
> efficient... Over 90db per watt. With 96 db or better being a good target.
> The more efficient the speaker the less work the amp has to do and
> therefore lower distortion. I use simple pencil tube stereo homebuilt amp
> to drive the Fostex speakers or headphones. Headphone are the AKG 701.
> Sometimes the ssb transmissions sound like good or even great AM
> broadcast. Good tone for me is what it's all about.
>
> Phil
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
> Build your own gear...
> Grow your own food.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 4, 2010, at 8:28 AM, John Ragle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>  This is a loaded question, like "when did you stop beating your wife?"
>> It implies that there is something wrong with the K3 audio.
>>
>> I have used both the K2 and K3 for some time, and as far as I can tell,
>> there is nothing wrong in this department. There is more than enough
>> gain to blast one out of the room or to fry one's ears using headphones,
>> and the range depends in the normal way on the bandpass used in the
>> receiver.
>>
>> Voice spectrum is scarce, and there is little excuse for using more of
>> this resource than is necessary for effective communication. I think
>> that almost all SSB operators realize the need and even the
>> effectiveness and utility of band-limiting their TX. A quick look on the
>> P3 or some other spectrum display will convince one of this. We should
>> be thankful that people don't insist on transmitting the full range of
>> audio frequencies that make up the human voice.
>>
>> Since what goes in dictates what comes out, it is unrealistic to hope
>> for broadcast quality reception. Perhaps more careful attention to
>> tuning SSB signals is needed...it does not take much offset to replace
>> the human with Donald Duck.
>>
>> John Ragle -- W1ZI
>>
>> =====
>>> On 10/4/2010 13:16, Rick Stealey wrote:
>>>
>>>> In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners
>>>> might have done.
>>>> Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type
>>>> speakers with audio
>>>> amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
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[George Sereikas]

I have had my K3 for some time now.  I have always used it with an external speaker and at one time tried it with "Stereo" speakers (West Mountain Radio Communications Speaker System, Powered). While the West Mountain speaker system worked ok, I found the lower frequencies were lacking an I hated all the additional wires.  Over time,  I tried several speakers that were generally designed for HI-Fi use. Some were too "tinny" and sounded best if the tweeter was disabled.  In general I found that I could always get pleasing  audio from them by adjusting the receive EQ.  I have never found the K3 to have low audio in terms of amplitude. The K3 audio amp seems to have plenty of headroom to drive any of the speakers that I have used. The K2 does have issues with audio output,  but not the K3. I have compared the K3 receive audio to the audio from several rigs in the shack with the same speakers (PRO III, TS-2000, FT-2000, Omni VII, Drake 2B, Heathkit SB-102) and IMHO, the K3 is eve
 ry bit the equal of any of those rigs as far as receive audio goes. It could be my ears and the range of my hearing,  but there is NO fatigue with the receive audio in the K3. Just my $.02 wort of opinion!

George
K2WO
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[Mike Harris]

G'day,

All this high quality digital audio is encoded and decoded in a
clean background, high S/N ratio environment.  Seven and eight bit
coded telephony has a surprising quality but there again the
background noise is low.  I have long had the feeling that signals
in the presence of noise just don't work so well.

Certainly a lot of magic can be accomplished in DSP.  Is it the
answer to life the universe and everything, I feel the jury is still
out.  There is a danger of falling for the digital hype, if it's
digital it must be better.  Unfortunately what we get is a steady
erosion of quality in the name of progress.  Good analogue design is
an art but once built a particular design is set in stone compared
to pushing bits and doing math.  Much of the good stuff in the K3 is
still in the analogue domain.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO


> Some DSP based receivers are capable of producing great audio.
> Consider that CD audio is an implementation of DSP.  How close to
> CD
> quality any practical receiver can come depends on the sampling
> rates
> and the number of bits in the A-D and D-A conversions.

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[Edward R Cole]

Like Don, I wear hearing aids (both ears) about 18-hours/day.  I can
choose a flat response setting (called music or TV) and use it for
ham radio as it  produces the crispest audio on voice.  I found I
prefer using an external speaker over the internal K3 speaker.  The
10-inch National Speaker from the 1950's is hard to beat.  I have not
changed the default RX-EQ in my K3.  Nor have I adjusted TX-EQ, but
may roll off the low end and high end someday (Using the Heil
HM10-5).  I get great audio reports as it is.

I have the 2.8 and 400-Hz 8-pole filters.  I find that the 400 works
well for CW on HF bands and I can reduce bw with the DSP for
weak-signal CW-eme.  I have played some with narrowing bw on SSB and
shifting the passband to both improve reception and reduce
interference.  NR works nice with signals of adequate strength.  On
very weak SSB it sometimes adds a bit of distortion which is not helpful.

------------------------------

Message: 53
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:02:03 -0400
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Use of external speakers/amp
To: Rick Stealey <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

   Rick,

Some DSP based receivers are capable of producing great audio.
Consider that CD audio is an implementation of DSP.  How close to CD
quality any practical receiver can come depends on the sampling rates
and the number of bits in the A-D and D-A conversions.

Inexpensive amplified speakers can sound bad, although some sound quite
good.  I would suggest using unamplified speakers with the K3 - I was
able to pick up some old RS Optimus speakers and those are currently on
my K3.  I have also driven a good quality stereo receiver equipped with
large stereo speakers - the K3 sounds good within the restrictions
imposed by the highest frequency that the K3 audio will go - 4 kHz.

You may be trying to straighten out a deficient speaker response with
the K3 RX-EQ.  I run my K3 with all the EQ settings at zero.  Many
speakers that are just speakers in a box (usually with an open back)
will have many irritating peaks in their response curve.  I prefer small
Hi-Fi speakers over any of the speakers normally found with ham gear.

Since Brian has suggested - yes, I wear hearing aids, but I normally
listen with the response set for a flat response without noise reduction
- my audiologist set up a special "music" program for me.

73,
Don W3FPR



73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
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DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================
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[Jim Brown-10]

  On 10/4/2010 6:40 AM, Rick Staley wrote:
> In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners
> might have done.
> Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type
> speakers with audio
> amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?

The K3 is a very compact rig, which requires that the loudspeaker also
be compact. That limits its performance, both in terms of output LEVEL
and frequency response.

The most important characteristic of a loudspeaker is the SMOOTHNESS of
its frequency response. The LIMITS (how low, how high) don't matter
nearly as much. One of the major differences between a good speaker and
a poor one is that smoothness. Bumps in the frequency response add both
amplitude and phase distortion, which makes speech much harder to
understand. One of the few shortcomings of the K2 on SSB is that the
narrow RX filter settings use the multi-stage CW filters, re-tuned to
stagger their response, and the total response is VERY bumpy. The K2
sounds great when the TX filter is used for RX (the full width setting),
but sounds just awful when those narrower settings are used.

Another important characteristic of a loudspeaker is its VOLTAGE
SENSITIVITY.  That is, how much voltage does it take to achieve a
certain loudness. Most hi-fi loudspeakers have pretty LOW sensitivity --
they are designed to be driven by 50-200W power amps. The K3 has a 1-2W
power amp, so it needs a speaker with fairly high sensitivity (unless
you also add an outboard power amp).

And yes, as others have noted, amplified loudspeakers are notorious for
having bad RFI problems. When I attend audio trade shows, I wander the
exhibit floor with a Kenwood TH-F6A (2M/220/440 talkie) and use it as a
signal injection probe to test for RFI. So far, I've found only two
amplified loudspeakers that didn't have RFI problems. Both cost more
than $3K.

Bottom line -- if you're going to add an external speaker to any ham
rig, choose one with very smooth (flat) response in the speech range
(400 - 4,000 Hz), and with reasonably high sensitivity.

73, Jim Brown K9YC
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[Lu Romero - W4LT]

Jim:

My trusty 10 year old Yamaha YST-M101 powered speakers on my computer
(purchased at Fry's in Sunnyvale!) have never received any RFI at up to 600w
pep here at my station.  Maybe it's the (guffaw!) "Active Servo Technology"
in them that does it, eh?  :)

For non powered speakers, I have an ancient pair of JBL Control 1's that
sound very nice with the K3 in AFX mode, but I think I'm going to retire
them as they take up way too much room and are the epitome of overkill for
Ham Radio (Hey!  They were on hand!  I had to use them SOMEWHERE!).

I have pretty decent grounding, however, and employ ferrites on all cables
going in and out of the speakers and on the wall wart.  I will probably move
the Yamahas to the K3 when I get rid of the Control 1's.

I guess I'm lucky!  :)

-lu-w4lt-
K3 # 3192


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 10:32:48 -0700
From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Use of external speakers/amp
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

  On 10/4/2010 6:40 AM, Rick Staley wrote:
> In connection with the second topic, I wonder what other K3 owners
> might have done.
> Have you gained any improvement by using external speakers, PC-type
> speakers with audio
> amps built in, or even something like a stereo amp with hi fi speakers?

The K3 is a very compact rig, which requires that the loudspeaker also
be compact. That limits its performance, both in terms of output LEVEL
and frequency response.

The most important characteristic of a loudspeaker is the SMOOTHNESS of
its frequency response. The LIMITS (how low, how high) don't matter
nearly as much. One of the major differences between a good speaker and
a poor one is that smoothness. Bumps in the frequency response add both
amplitude and phase distortion, which makes speech much harder to
understand. One of the few shortcomings of the K2 on SSB is that the
narrow RX filter settings use the multi-stage CW filters, re-tuned to
stagger their response, and the total response is VERY bumpy. The K2
sounds great when the TX filter is used for RX (the full width setting),
but sounds just awful when those narrower settings are used.

Another important characteristic of a loudspeaker is its VOLTAGE
SENSITIVITY.  That is, how much voltage does it take to achieve a
certain loudness. Most hi-fi loudspeakers have pretty LOW sensitivity --
they are designed to be driven by 50-200W power amps. The K3 has a 1-2W
power amp, so it needs a speaker with fairly high sensitivity (unless
you also add an outboard power amp).

And yes, as others have noted, amplified loudspeakers are notorious for
having bad RFI problems. When I attend audio trade shows, I wander the
exhibit floor with a Kenwood TH-F6A (2M/220/440 talkie) and use it as a
signal injection probe to test for RFI. So far, I've found only two
amplified loudspeakers that didn't have RFI problems. Both cost more
than $3K.

Bottom line -- if you're going to add an external speaker to any ham
rig, choose one with very smooth (flat) response in the speech range
(400 - 4,000 Hz), and with reasonably high sensitivity.

73, Jim Brown K9YC

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