Elecraft

Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

Classic

List

Threaded

24 messages Options

jperelst

Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

I ordered a K1 based that They all have built-in test equipment to simplify alignment and
testing (from the Elecraft web site). Now -- according to Elecraft support -- I have to source
obsolete parts from China, buy drill equipment and copper bathroom pipe, and rip apart my
television (or my computer) to cannibalize printed circuit boards.

Either that or buy an oscilloscope that would cost me more than the K1.

Im building a 2 band K1 -- 40 meters (band 1) and 20 meters (band 2). During receiver alignment,
Band 1 (40 meters) seems to be working fine. Band 2 (20 meters) however, does nothing.

The support guys are telling me that I have to build an RF probe for further testing, and theyve
pointed me to a schematic in the K1 user manual and told me to go build the probe from scratch.
That's about as useful to me as pointing me to the schematic of the K1 and telling me to go build
the K1 from scratch.

I'm a new ham (March, 2008). I'm not a home electronic hobbyist. I don't have test equipment. I
have no experience at homebrew, nor do I have the knowledge to do so. I bought the K1 as a starter
to get my feet wet in working electronics.

After a number of emails with support about how to build an RF probe (a question that was
repeatedly ignored), I was finally referred to a couple of different web sites:

- The first site starts out with using an old piece of double-sided printed circuit board that
you have in your junk bin .

Where exactly do I have double-sided printed circuit board sitting around? Do I hacksaw off a
hunk from my television or from my computer? Radio Shack doesnt sell it, nor does Mouser.

- The next site also wants me to use double-sided printed circuit board, plus they want me to
insert it into a copper pipe and drill holes through the pipe.

Riiiight so in other words I have to go out and buy a drill thats capable of drilling through
copper. And I have to buy the copper pipe and end caps. Will I have to get the pipe threaded in
order to mount the end caps?

- Then theres the site that built the RF probe inside a ball-point pen. The author of that site
admitted that it took him a number of tries before he was able to build it without breaking the
diode, and that this is a project for the more advanced hobbyist.

It also turns out that nobody carries the diode specified by the schematic (1N34A). According to
Mouser, its obsolete and out of stock, but if I want to pay a couple of hundred bucks, theyll
gladly source it from China. Mouser will sell me something that they claim is a replacement for
the 1N34A, but all of the web sites I've been referred to tell me not to use that specific
replacement.

I bought a kit because it comes with all the parts, has a pre-built chassis, has pre-drilled
holes, and includes complete and well-thought out instructions on how to mount everything -- as
well as a commitment to provide support during the construction process.

Maybe in two or three years I'll have the experience to build my own RF probe, but in the meantime
I'm stuck with a K1 that I can't finish without an RF probe, and there's no way that I can build
an RF probe without a trip to China.

Anybody want a mostly complete K1? Make me an offer -- I'll even throw in shipping.

Jon
KB1QBZ

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

N4LQ-2

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

Jon
I'm sure theres plenty of guys here that would be more than happy to help
you get it going if you don't mind sending it to them. I have a K1 and would
be glad to help you want to ship it to KY. There may be someone closer to
your QTH.
That kit is a bit much for someone unfamiliar with electronics.

Steve Ellington
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Perelstein" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:22 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

>I ordered a K1 based that "They all . have built-in test equipment to
>simplify alignment and
> testing" (from the Elecraft web site). Now -- according to Elecraft
> support -- I have to source
> obsolete parts from China, buy drill equipment and copper bathroom pipe,
> and rip apart my
> television (or my computer) to cannibalize printed circuit boards.
>
> Either that or buy an oscilloscope that would cost me more than the K1.
>
> I'm building a 2 band K1 -- 40 meters (band 1) and 20 meters (band 2).
> During receiver alignment,
> Band 1 (40 meters) seems to be working fine. Band 2 (20 meters) however,
> does nothing.
>
> The support guys are telling me that I have to build an RF probe for
> further testing, and they've
> pointed me to a schematic in the K1 user manual and told me to go build
> the probe from scratch.
> That's about as useful to me as pointing me to the schematic of the K1 and
> telling me to go build
> the K1 from scratch.
>
> I'm a new ham (March, 2008). I'm not a home electronic hobbyist. I don't
> have test equipment. I
> have no experience at homebrew, nor do I have the knowledge to do so. I
> bought the K1 as a starter
> to get my feet wet in working electronics.
>
> After a number of emails with support about how to build an RF probe (a
> question that was
> repeatedly ignored), I was finally referred to a couple of different web
> sites:
>
> - The first site starts out with ". using an old piece of double-sided
> printed circuit board that
> you have in your junk bin .".
>
> Where exactly do I have double-sided printed circuit board sitting around?
> Do I hacksaw off a
> hunk from my television or from my computer? Radio Shack doesn't sell it,
> nor does Mouser.
>
> - The next site also wants me to use double-sided printed circuit board,
> plus they want me to
> insert it into a copper pipe and drill holes through the pipe.
>
> Riiiight . so in other words I have to go out and buy a drill that's
> capable of drilling through
> copper. And I have to buy the copper pipe and end caps. Will I have to
> get the pipe threaded in
> order to mount the end caps?
>
> - Then there's the site that built the RF probe inside a ball-point pen.
> The author of that site
> admitted that it took him a number of tries before he was able to build it
> without breaking the
> diode, and that this is a project for the more advanced hobbyist.
>
> It also turns out that nobody carries the diode specified by the schematic
> (1N34A). According to
> Mouser, it's obsolete and out of stock, but if I want to pay a couple of
> hundred bucks, they'll
> gladly source it from China. Mouser will sell me something that they
> claim is a replacement for
> the 1N34A, but all of the web sites I've been referred to tell me not to
> use that specific
> replacement.
>
> I bought a kit because it comes with all the parts, has a pre-built
> chassis, has pre-drilled
> holes, and includes complete and well-thought out instructions on how to
> mount everything -- as
> well as a commitment to provide support during the construction process.
>
> Maybe in two or three years I'll have the experience to build my own RF
> probe, but in the meantime
> I'm stuck with a K1 that I can't finish without an RF probe, and there's
> no way that I can build
> an RF probe without a trip to China.
>
> Anybody want a mostly complete K1? Make me an offer -- I'll even throw in
> shipping.
>
> Jon
> KB1QBZ
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008
7:24 AM

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Jon Kåre Hellan

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

You can buy 1N34A diodes here:
http://www.mtechnologies.com/ohr/parts.htm
I did, but I haven't built my RF probe yet :-)

But for now, your best bet may be to try to find a local ham who can
help you.

I'm sure you are frustrated, and you probably didn't intend it that way.
But you did come across as pretty aggressive in your message. It's
probably better to try to adjust your tone to fit your audience.

73
LA4RT Jon

Jon Perelstein wrote:

> I ordered a K1 based that “They all … have built-in test equipment to simplify alignment and
> testing” (from the Elecraft web site). Now -- according to Elecraft support -- I have to source
> obsolete parts from China, buy drill equipment and copper bathroom pipe, and rip apart my
> television (or my computer) to cannibalize printed circuit boards.
>
> Either that or buy an oscilloscope that would cost me more than the K1.
>
> I’m building a 2 band K1 -- 40 meters (band 1) and 20 meters (band 2). During receiver alignment,
> Band 1 (40 meters) seems to be working fine. Band 2 (20 meters) however, does nothing.
>
> The support guys are telling me that I have to build an RF probe for further testing, and they’ve
> pointed me to a schematic in the K1 user manual and told me to go build the probe from scratch.
> That's about as useful to me as pointing me to the schematic of the K1 and telling me to go build
> the K1 from scratch.
>
> I'm a new ham (March, 2008). I'm not a home electronic hobbyist. I don't have test equipment. I
> have no experience at homebrew, nor do I have the knowledge to do so. I bought the K1 as a starter
> to get my feet wet in working electronics.
>
> After a number of emails with support about how to build an RF probe (a question that was
> repeatedly ignored), I was finally referred to a couple of different web sites:
>
> - The first site starts out with “… using an old piece of double-sided printed circuit board that
> you have in your junk bin …”.
>
> Where exactly do I have double-sided printed circuit board sitting around? Do I hacksaw off a
> hunk from my television or from my computer? Radio Shack doesn’t sell it, nor does Mouser.
>
> - The next site also wants me to use double-sided printed circuit board, plus they want me to
> insert it into a copper pipe and drill holes through the pipe.
>
> Riiiight … so in other words I have to go out and buy a drill that’s capable of drilling through
> copper. And I have to buy the copper pipe and end caps. Will I have to get the pipe threaded in
> order to mount the end caps?
>
> - Then there’s the site that built the RF probe inside a ball-point pen. The author of that site
> admitted that it took him a number of tries before he was able to build it without breaking the
> diode, and that this is a project for the more advanced hobbyist.
>
> It also turns out that nobody carries the diode specified by the schematic (1N34A). According to
> Mouser, it’s obsolete and out of stock, but if I want to pay a couple of hundred bucks, they’ll
> gladly source it from China. Mouser will sell me something that they claim is a replacement for
> the 1N34A, but all of the web sites I've been referred to tell me not to use that specific
> replacement.
>
> I bought a kit because it comes with all the parts, has a pre-built chassis, has pre-drilled
> holes, and includes complete and well-thought out instructions on how to mount everything -- as
> well as a commitment to provide support during the construction process.
>
> Maybe in two or three years I'll have the experience to build my own RF probe, but in the meantime
> I'm stuck with a K1 that I can't finish without an RF probe, and there's no way that I can build
> an RF probe without a trip to China.
>
> Anybody want a mostly complete K1? Make me an offer -- I'll even throw in shipping.
>
> Jon
> KB1QBZ
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Ian Maude

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

Jon Perelstein wrote:
> I ordered a K1 based that “They all … have built-in test equipment to simplify alignment and
> testing” (from the Elecraft web site). Now -- according to Elecraft support -- I have to source
> obsolete parts from China, buy drill equipment and copper bathroom pipe, and rip apart my
> television (or my computer) to cannibalize printed circuit boards.
>
Hi Jon,
I can understand your frustration, however, if you have not got the
skills as yet to build a simple diode probe ( you can solder the parts
together, you don't actually need a board), you are probably nowhere
near the stage of building a K1. Actually drills for circuit board are
cents to buy and always useful. Do you not have a Dremel tool or similar?

Having said all that, you have one band working so something went right!
Is there not a club near you or an 'elmer' who has test gear who could help?

You will get terrific support from Elecraft but they would expect you to
have a basic skillset. If you cannot fix it yourself, I am sure the
support team would sort it for you. There are also plenty of people on
this reflector that would be willing to help should you ask for it.

73 Ian

--

Ian J Maude, G0VGS
SysOp GB7MBC DX Cluster
Member RSGB, GQRP
K2 #4044 |K3 #455

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Solosko, Robert B (Bob)

RE: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

Jon,

I can understand your frustration, but there may be a simplier
solution. The K2 comes with the parts to make a simple RF probe: 1N34A
diode, .01 uf cap, 47 M ohm resistor and a length of RG-174 coax. You
should be able to order all of the parts from Elecraft, including the
small PC board that is used - part number E100079 (it's also used as a
spacing tool for mounting the front panel switches). The instructions
are on page 9 of Appendix E in the K2 manual that can be downloaded from
the Elecraft web site.

73,

Bob W1SRB

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jon Perelstein
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:23 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

I ordered a K1 based that "They all ... have built-in test equipment to
simplify alignment and testing" (from the Elecraft web site). Now --
according to Elecraft support -- I have to source obsolete parts from
China, buy drill equipment and copper bathroom pipe, and rip apart my
television (or my computer) to cannibalize printed circuit boards.

Either that or buy an oscilloscope that would cost me more than the K1.

I'm building a 2 band K1 -- 40 meters (band 1) and 20 meters (band 2).
During receiver alignment, Band 1 (40 meters) seems to be working fine.
Band 2 (20 meters) however, does nothing.

The support guys are telling me that I have to build an RF probe for
further testing, and they've pointed me to a schematic in the K1 user
manual and told me to go build the probe from scratch.
That's about as useful to me as pointing me to the schematic of the K1
and telling me to go build the K1 from scratch.

I'm a new ham (March, 2008). I'm not a home electronic hobbyist. I
don't have test equipment. I have no experience at homebrew, nor do I
have the knowledge to do so. I bought the K1 as a starter to get my feet
wet in working electronics.

After a number of emails with support about how to build an RF probe (a
question that was repeatedly ignored), I was finally referred to a
couple of different web sites:

- The first site starts out with "... using an old piece of
double-sided printed circuit board that you have in your junk bin ...".

Where exactly do I have double-sided printed circuit board sitting
around? Do I hacksaw off a hunk from my television or from my computer?
Radio Shack doesn't sell it, nor does Mouser.

- The next site also wants me to use double-sided printed circuit
board, plus they want me to insert it into a copper pipe and drill holes
through the pipe.

Riiiight ... so in other words I have to go out and buy a drill that's
capable of drilling through copper. And I have to buy the copper pipe
and end caps. Will I have to get the pipe threaded in order to mount
the end caps?

- Then there's the site that built the RF probe inside a ball-point
pen. The author of that site admitted that it took him a number of
tries before he was able to build it without breaking the diode, and
that this is a project for the more advanced hobbyist.

It also turns out that nobody carries the diode specified by the
schematic (1N34A). According to Mouser, it's obsolete and out of stock,
but if I want to pay a couple of hundred bucks, they'll gladly source it
from China. Mouser will sell me something that they claim is a
replacement for the 1N34A, but all of the web sites I've been referred
to tell me not to use that specific replacement.

I bought a kit because it comes with all the parts, has a pre-built
chassis, has pre-drilled holes, and includes complete and well-thought
out instructions on how to mount everything -- as well as a commitment
to provide support during the construction process.

Maybe in two or three years I'll have the experience to build my own RF
probe, but in the meantime I'm stuck with a K1 that I can't finish
without an RF probe, and there's no way that I can build an RF probe
without a trip to China.

Anybody want a mostly complete K1? Make me an offer -- I'll even throw
in shipping.

Jon
KB1QBZ

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

John,

Sorry to hear about your problems. Yes, the 20 meter Pre-Mixer Bandpass
Filter in the K1 can be a bit difficult to align at times, but the
situation is not as hopeless as you describe.
The K2 does come with parts to build up an RF Probe, and a replacement
kit is available from Elecraft for $10 - the kit designation is RFPROBE
and can be found in the K2 spare parts section of the website. Caution:
This is a kit of parts only (no instructions), but is not difficult at all.

If you feel you cannot build it without instructions, contact me
off-reflector - perhaps we can resolve this for you. An RF Probe is a
good tool to have in your shack.

73,
Don W3FPR

Jon Perelstein wrote:

Gary Scott-4

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

Jon
You can find the 1N34A here http://www.mtechnologies.com/ohr/parts.htm
If I were home I could send you a couple ,but Im not at home and won't be
there for a long while ,but they are easy enough to get
73 Gary W4GNS

>
>> It also turns out that nobody carries the diode specified by the
>> schematic (1N34A). According to
> Mouser, it's obsolete and out of stock, but if I want to pay a couple of
> hundred bucks, they'll
> gladly source it from China. Mouser will sell me something that they
> claim is a replacement for
> the 1N34A, but all of the web sites I've been referred to tell me not to
> use that specific
> replacement.
>
>
> Jon
> KB1QBZ
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Buck - k4ia

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

As I recall, getting 20M jump started on the K1 has always been an issue.
The tuning is very critical. That said, you can probably get it running
without an RF probe if you just fool around with it for a while.

There is a hint on the Elecraft webpage under Builder Resources - look on
the page for "What's New?" and see the article in the second column "K1/K2 Low
Power on 20 M? - Try this"

Good luck

k4ia
Craig "Buck"
Fredericksburg, Virginia
K3 #101

**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

michael taylor-3

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The K2 does come with parts to build up an RF Probe, and a replacement kit
> is available from Elecraft for $10 - the kit designation is RFPROBE and can
> be found in the K2 spare parts section of the website. Caution: This is a
> kit of parts only (no instructions), but is not difficult at all.

The instructions can be found in the K2 manual, which is downloadable
from the Elecraft web site.
<http://www.elecraft.com/manual/ELECRAFT%20K2%20Owner's%20Manual%20Rev%20G%20WEB.pdf>

PDF page 155 (appendix E, Troubleshooting, appendix E page 9)

>> support -- I have to source
>> obsolete parts from China, buy drill equipment and copper bathroom pipe,
>> and rip apart my
>> television (or my computer) to cannibalize printed circuit boards.

If you want Jon, I will send you a Germanium diode (1N34A or
equivalent) and a piece of scrap-sized copper coated circuit board. I
will even include the capacitor and resistor.

The half inch copper pipe is readily available from home building
supply stores such as Home Depot, Lowes, etc. These end caps are
normally soldered with a propane torch, which is reasonable cheap and
also available from a building centre. But that was merely one
suggested possible case, based on what the builder had available.

-Michael, VE3TIX
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

N4LQ-2

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

Keep in mind. The IN34 will only ship one way.
Steve Ellington
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "michael taylor" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Jon Perelstein" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The K2 does come with parts to build up an RF Probe, and a replacement
>> kit
>> is available from Elecraft for $10 - the kit designation is RFPROBE and
>> can
>> be found in the K2 spare parts section of the website. Caution: This is a
>> kit of parts only (no instructions), but is not difficult at all.
>
> The instructions can be found in the K2 manual, which is downloadable
> from the Elecraft web site.
> <http://www.elecraft.com/manual/ELECRAFT%20K2%20Owner's%20Manual%20Rev%20G%20WEB.pdf>
>
> PDF page 155 (appendix E, Troubleshooting, appendix E page 9)
>
>>> support -- I have to source
>>> obsolete parts from China, buy drill equipment and copper bathroom pipe,
>>> and rip apart my
>>> television (or my computer) to cannibalize printed circuit boards.
>
> If you want Jon, I will send you a Germanium diode (1N34A or
> equivalent) and a piece of scrap-sized copper coated circuit board. I
> will even include the capacitor and resistor.
>
> The half inch copper pipe is readily available from home building
> supply stores such as Home Depot, Lowes, etc. These end caps are
> normally soldered with a propane torch, which is reasonable cheap and
> also available from a building centre. But that was merely one
> suggested possible case, based on what the builder had available.
>
> -Michael, VE3TIX
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

jperelst

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

Thank you all for your responses.

There are two clubs near me -- one of which I joined last week and the other I will be joining in
two weeks (just a function of the meeting schedules). I feel a little uncomfortable showing up at
a club meeting the very first time and asking people to lend me tools, etc.

Based on the schematic, I'm confident that I can put together the RF Probe kit that comes with the
K2. My problem is knowing what parts to buy, where to buy them, and how to mount the thing. The
RF Probe kit answers the first two questions.

The web sites I've looked at seem to imply that I need to put the probe in some sort of metal
shielding (thus the copper pipe for example), but some of your responses seem to imply that I can
just leave it in the open. Is that correct? Can I just leave the circuitry in the open? Or do I
have to mount it in something -- in which case I'm back to the problem of what I mount it inside
of and how to mount it inside (e.g., insulators, mounting hardware).

As for soldering, I've inspected and resoldered every solder point related to band 2 of the board
(the band that's not working). I can't see anything wrong with any of them using a magnifying
glass. It's also been suggested to me that the toroid leads weren't properly stripped and thus
are not making connection with the PC board.

In order to test my soldering, I've tested continuity from one lead of each band 2 specific
component to the lead of the next band 2 specific component in the schematic. I did this from the
actual component leads on the top of the board, and not from the solder joint on the bottom of the
board. My theory in doing this is that in order for good continuity to exist, the current from my
ohmmeter has to flow from the lead through the solder joint, through the channel on the PC board
itself to the solder joint of the next component, through the solder joint of the next component,
and then up that component's lead to the top of the board. Testing this way, all of my solder
joints tested out okay -- even the toroids.

To further test the toroids, I also tested from "outbound" lead of the component previous to the
toroid in the circuit to the "inbound" lead of the next component in the circuit. In theory, the
current from my ohmmeter would have to flow from the "outbound" lead of the previous component,
down through its solder joint, through the channel on the PC board, into the solder joint of the
toroid being tested, then through that solder joint and up into the toroid, out the toroid's other
lead and down into that lead's solder joint, through another channel on the PC board to the
"inbound" lead of the next component, through the solder joint of that next component's "inbound"
lead, and then into the "inbound" lead of that next component. Other than a lot of words to
describe it, I came up with no problems.

Do these test approaches make any sense??

Note: from reading the schematic, it appears to me that the band 2 specific components are well
isolated by latching relays, thus preventing a false continuity reading because the current is
flowing through a different path (other than what I think I'm testing). I've also tested the pins
of the relays to make sure that there isn't any cross-soldering.

Also, thank you all for the link to http://www.mtechnologies.com/ohr/parts.htm

Jon
KB1QBZ

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Julian, G4ILO

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

Jon Perelstein wrote

Based on the schematic, I'm confident that I can put together the RF Probe kit that comes with the
K2. My problem is knowing what parts to buy, where to buy them, and how to mount the thing. The RF Probe kit answers the first two questions.

The web sites I've looked at seem to imply that I need to put the probe in some sort of metal
shielding (thus the copper pipe for example), but some of your responses seem to imply that I can
just leave it in the open. Is that correct?

My RF probe I built just by soldering the leads of the components together. No PCB at all. I wrapped some insulating tape round it to give me something to hold it with. The "probe" is one lead from the capacitor. So I think the answer to your question is "yes, you can."

I would have thought most club members would fall over themselves to help a newcomer who is actually willing to try building something that he would have to know CW to use. I doubt if you'd need to ask for help, just explain the problem and they'll be queuing up to assist.

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

Jim Wiley-2

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

Jon -

It sounds like you're starting to feel a bit better about your chances
of successfully completing the K1 project.

The K2 RF probe kit is a great idea, and can be used "as is" - that is
to say, with no external covering. However, if you feel uncomfortable
about possibly disturbing a reading by inadvertently touching part of
the circuitry when making measurements, any sort of tube that will cover
the probe will work. Non-conductive is probably a better choice.
Possible suggestions: the body of a large "fat body" ballpoint pen,
sans inner parts of course, or a round plastic tube like toothbrushes
sometimes come in, or even a short length of PVC plumbing pipe plus a
couple of end caps (get the smallest that will fit - probably 3/8" or
1/2", the thinnest wall you can find. You get the idea.

Your methodology in checking solder joints is right on. However,
remember that the relays are magnetic latching- so unless you measure at
least one set of contacts with an ohmmeter, you cannot be sure what
state (open or closed) they are in.

Don't be embarrassed about going to a club and confessing your "newness"
- we were all there once, and most hams are eager to help if they can.
Almost every club has one or two technical experts, and they almost
universally will help a newcomer - in fact, are more likely to help a
newcomer than a more experienced ham.

Welcome to the world of ham radio and Elecraft. Having built a K2 and
almost of the available options, I can only agree that Elecraft's
technical support is absolutely unmatched. I should have such good
support for my Yaesu FT-100D - it's dead, and Yaesu's service department
not only won't give any help, they tell me they no longer work on that
model. Nuff said!

By the way, as time and finances permit, my shack is slowly working it's
way to 100% Elecraft. The imports are on their way out.

- Jim, KL7CC

Jon Perelstein wrote:
> Thank you all for your responses.
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

Jon,

A proper RF Probe is usable up to 500 MHz and beyond.
If you are going to use an RF Probe at VHF and UHF bands, then it will
need to be shielded from stray radiation. In your situation, you will
only be using it up to 22 MHz, and shielding it is not necessary. As
has been said, if you want to enclose it in something, just use whatever
you have available, or simply wrap it with tape. No enclosure is needed
as long as you do not contact the probe parts while doing a measurement.

Hopefully that provides some reasons for the differences of opinion you
see on the websites - it all depends on the frequency and other
conditions where you will be using it.

73,
Don W3FPR

Jon Perelstein wrote:
>
> The web sites I've looked at seem to imply that I need to put the probe in some sort of metal
> shielding (thus the copper pipe for example), but some of your responses seem to imply that I can
> just leave it in the open. Is that correct? Can I just leave the circuitry in the open? Or do I
> have to mount it in something -- in which case I'm back to the problem of what I mount it inside
> of and how to mount it inside (e.g., insulators, mounting hardware).
>
> AM
>
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

S Sacco

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

For all the angst, why not box it up, and send it back to Elecraft to fix?

73,
Steve NN4X

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 1:09 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jon,
>
> A proper RF Probe is usable up to 500 MHz and beyond.
> If you are going to use an RF Probe at VHF and UHF bands, then it will need
> to be shielded from stray radiation. In your situation, you will only be
> using it up to 22 MHz, and shielding it is not necessary. As has been said,
> if you want to enclose it in something, just use whatever you have
> available, or simply wrap it with tape. No enclosure is needed as long as
> you do not contact the probe parts while doing a measurement.
>
> Hopefully that provides some reasons for the differences of opinion you see
> on the websites - it all depends on the frequency and other conditions where
> you will be using it.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Jon Perelstein wrote:
>>
>> The web sites I've looked at seem to imply that I need to put the probe in
>> some sort of metal
>> shielding (thus the copper pipe for example), but some of your responses
>> seem to imply that I can
>> just leave it in the open. Is that correct? Can I just leave the
>> circuitry in the open? Or do I
>> have to mount it in something -- in which case I'm back to the problem of
>> what I mount it inside
>> of and how to mount it inside (e.g., insulators, mounting hardware).
>> AM
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

w6jd

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

I used a piece of heat shrink tubing.Works great.

Doug
W6JD
K2/100 #1626
K3/100 #23

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>

> Jon,
>
> A proper RF Probe is usable up to 500 MHz and beyond.
> If you are going to use an RF Probe at VHF and UHF bands, then it will
> need to be shielded from stray radiation. In your situation, you will
> only be using it up to 22 MHz, and shielding it is not necessary. As
> has been said, if you want to enclose it in something, just use whatever
> you have available, or simply wrap it with tape. No enclosure is needed
> as long as you do not contact the probe parts while doing a measurement.
>
> Hopefully that provides some reasons for the differences of opinion you
> see on the websites - it all depends on the frequency and other
> conditions where you will be using it.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Jon Perelstein wrote:
> >
> > The web sites I've looked at seem to imply that I need to put the probe in
> some sort of metal
> > shielding (thus the copper pipe for example), but some of your responses seem
> to imply that I can
> > just leave it in the open. Is that correct? Can I just leave the circuitry
> in the open? Or do I
> > have to mount it in something -- in which case I'm back to the problem of what
> I mount it inside
> > of and how to mount it inside (e.g., insulators, mounting hardware).
> >
> > AM
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

w6jd

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

Just Google "1N34A" and you will find numerous sites that
have them for $0.39. Only problem is they seem to have
very high minimums. Just order the parts from Elecraft and
be happy.

73,
Doug W6JD

>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 1:09 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> > Jon,
> >
> > A proper RF Probe is usable up to 500 MHz and beyond.
> > If you are going to use an RF Probe at VHF and UHF bands, then it will need
> > to be shielded from stray radiation. In your situation, you will only be
> > using it up to 22 MHz, and shielding it is not necessary. As has been said,
> > if you want to enclose it in something, just use whatever you have
> > available, or simply wrap it with tape. No enclosure is needed as long as
> > you do not contact the probe parts while doing a measurement.
> >
> > Hopefully that provides some reasons for the differences of opinion you see
> > on the websites - it all depends on the frequency and other conditions where
> > you will be using it.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> > Jon Perelstein wrote:
> >>
> >> The web sites I've looked at seem to imply that I need to put the probe in
> >> some sort of metal
> >> shielding (thus the copper pipe for example), but some of your responses
> >> seem to imply that I can
> >> just leave it in the open. Is that correct? Can I just leave the
> >> circuitry in the open? Or do I
> >> have to mount it in something -- in which case I'm back to the problem of
> >> what I mount it inside
> >> of and how to mount it inside (e.g., insulators, mounting hardware).
> >> AM
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

AC7AC

1N34 (WAS: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support)

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

David Woolley (E.L)

Re: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by jperelst

Jon Perelstein wrote:

> Where exactly do I have double-sided printed circuit board sitting around? Do I hacksaw off a
> hunk from my television or from my computer? Radio Shack doesn’t sell it, nor does Mouser.

Mouser do stock it.
<http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Ntt=*copper*+*clad*&N=1323038&Ntx=mode%2bmatchall&Ns=P_SField&OriginalKeyword=copper+clad&Ntk=Mouser_Wildcards>
or specifically
<http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=nnh8%2fA0SuH%252buQH8CIqVpSA%3d%3d>.
Radio Shack also stock it:
<http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102495&cp=&sr=1&origkw=copper+clad&kw=copper+clad&parentPage=search>
It's a very basic material for home construction, which is probably why
the author didn't feel it necessary to use the term "copper clad board",
which I used in my searches.

> It also turns out that nobody carries the diode specified by the
> schematic (1N34A).

The 1N34A diode looks to be a generic "Germanium point contact diode"
and any small diode so described should work (e.g., in the UK, at least,
OA91). It looks like it was the typical diode used in post war crystal
sets. The reason for specifying this sort of diode is that it has a low
voltage drop, so can be used to measure smaller voltages, but, if you
remember that the voltage is offset by about 0.6 volts, rather than
about 0.3 volts, any cheap switching diode, like the 1N4148 or 1N916
would probably also work.

> According to Mouser, it’s obsolete and out of stock, but if I want to
> pay a couple of hundred bucks,

Mouser are claiming to have 9,170 in stock, for immediate delivery!
<http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=A09egTk0tbXMpOf3uR8i2Q%3d%3d>

--
David Woolley
"The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to
Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio"
List Guidelines <http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Bruce McLaughlin-2

RE: Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Don, a question. I built the K2/100 and I remember building the RF probe
from the parts included and using the instructions in the builder's manual.
I wonder if it might be best to purchase the RF probe Kit and then download
the K2 manual if (A) it includes the probe assembly instructions and (B) the
probe kit is essentially the same as the RF probe built during K2 assembly.
As I remember it was not at all hard to build. I think John is unduly
worried. I'm sure a solution can be found for his problem.

Bruce - W8FU

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:55 AM
To: Jon Perelstein
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Very Dissatisfied With Elecraft Support

John,

Sorry to hear about your problems. Yes, the 20 meter Pre-Mixer Bandpass
Filter in the K1 can be a bit difficult to align at times, but the
situation is not as hopeless as you describe.
The K2 does come with parts to build up an RF Probe, and a replacement
kit is available from Elecraft for $10 - the kit designation is RFPROBE
and can be found in the K2 spare parts section of the website. Caution:
This is a kit of parts only (no instructions), but is not difficult at all.

If you feel you cannot build it without instructions, contact me
off-reflector - perhaps we can resolve this for you. An RF Probe is a
good tool to have in your shack.

73,
Don W3FPR

Jon Perelstein wrote:
> I ordered a K1 based that "They all . have built-in test equipment to
simplify alignment and
> testing" (from the Elecraft web site). Now -- according to Elecraft
support -- I have to source
> obsolete parts from China, buy drill equipment and copper bathroom pipe,
and rip apart my
> television (or my computer) to cannibalize printed circuit boards.
>
> Either that or buy an oscilloscope that would cost me more than the K1.
>
> I'm building a 2 band K1 -- 40 meters (band 1) and 20 meters (band 2).
During receiver alignment,
> Band 1 (40 meters) seems to be working fine. Band 2 (20 meters) however,
does nothing.
>
> The support guys are telling me that I have to build an RF probe for
further testing, and they've
> pointed me to a schematic in the K1 user manual and told me to go build
the probe from scratch.
> That's about as useful to me as pointing me to the schematic of the K1 and
telling me to go build
> the K1 from scratch.
>
> I'm a new ham (March, 2008). I'm not a home electronic hobbyist. I don't
have test equipment. I
> have no experience at homebrew, nor do I have the knowledge to do so. I
bought the K1 as a starter
> to get my feet wet in working electronics.
>
> After a number of emails with support about how to build an RF probe (a
question that was
> repeatedly ignored), I was finally referred to a couple of different web
sites:
>
> - The first site starts out with ". using an old piece of double-sided
printed circuit board that
> you have in your junk bin .".
>
> Where exactly do I have double-sided printed circuit board sitting around?
Do I hacksaw off a
> hunk from my television or from my computer? Radio Shack doesn't sell it,
nor does Mouser.
>
> - The next site also wants me to use double-sided printed circuit board,
plus they want me to
> insert it into a copper pipe and drill holes through the pipe.
>
> Riiiight . so in other words I have to go out and buy a drill that's
capable of drilling through
> copper. And I have to buy the copper pipe and end caps. Will I have to
get the pipe threaded in
> order to mount the end caps?
>
> - Then there's the site that built the RF probe inside a ball-point pen.
The author of that site
> admitted that it took him a number of tries before he was able to build it
without breaking the
> diode, and that this is a project for the more advanced hobbyist.
>
> It also turns out that nobody carries the diode specified by the schematic
(1N34A). According to
> Mouser, it's obsolete and out of stock, but if I want to pay a couple of
hundred bucks, they'll
> gladly source it from China. Mouser will sell me something that they
claim is a replacement for
> the 1N34A, but all of the web sites I've been referred to tell me not to
use that specific
> replacement.
>
> I bought a kit because it comes with all the parts, has a pre-built
chassis, has pre-drilled
> holes, and includes complete and well-thought out instructions on how to
mount everything -- as
> well as a commitment to provide support during the construction process.
>
> Maybe in two or three years I'll have the experience to build my own RF
probe, but in the meantime
> I'm stuck with a K1 that I can't finish without an RF probe, and there's
no way that I can build
> an RF probe without a trip to China.
>
> Anybody want a mostly complete K1? Make me an offer -- I'll even throw in
shipping.
>
> Jon
> KB1QBZ
>
>
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1445 - Release Date: 5/15/2008
7:25 PM

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com