Vibroplex Bug

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Vibroplex Bug

Denise&Werner
Hello group
 
Was wondering if anyone had the same experience as I have.
Got a Vibroplex Classic a few months ago and took quite awhile to get the
adjustments right and it is sounding very decent on the K3. No secondary dit
chirp, contacts clean and all is good.
I then put it on the K2 and all those chirpy dits like an intermittent show
up and really sound like a lid on the air. Tried the K1 also with same
results.
go back to the K3 and all is normal.
All I can figure is the keying circuit must need more time/better contact
than the K3?
Hate to adjust the bug for fear it will be whacked out and take me hours to
get it set to the K3 again.
Not a show stopper but a ponder.
 
Thanks
 
73es
 
Werner   N8BB
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Re: Vibroplex Bug

Sam Binkley-2


--- On Sun, 8/23/09, Denise&Werner <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Denise&Werner <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Vibroplex Bug
To: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 5:15 PM


Hello group

Was wondering if anyone had the same experience as I have.
Got a Vibroplex Classic a few months ago and took quite awhile to get the
adjustments right and it is sounding very decent on the K3. No secondary dit
chirp, contacts clean and all is good.
I then put it on the K2 and all those chirpy dits like an intermittent show
up and really sound like a lid on the air. Tried the K1 also with same
results.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Werner,
I have similar results between the K3 and K2, although not quite as severe as yours sounds.  K3 keying is crisp and clean, K2 often seems to throw in some dits that don't sound complete.  I am going to try to make some adjustments and modifications to my bug (1941 Original) as suggested at
http://extendadot.com and see if I can improve the K2 bug keying.  When using the bug on the K2 I have the key input set to HAND.
 
73,
Sam, N4SAM
 


     
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Re: Vibroplex Bug

drewko
In reply to this post by Denise&Werner
I guess the K3 just likes your bug!

First, make sure the contacts are mating squarely. Then measure the
continuity when the dot contacts are resting closed. It should be a
dead short. If there is any resistance find out where and correct it.

Assuming that is okay, how many dits does the bug generate when you
thumb the dot paddle? Try adjusting the dot contact spacing so that
you don't get more than about 15 maximum. (No, you do not want 20 or
30 or more dits before the contacts finally come to a close.)

You can also  try wedging a piece of cotton or felt in the "U" of the
dot spring.

73,
Drew
AF2Z


On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:15:13 -0400, Werner   N8BB wrote:

>Hello group
>
>Was wondering if anyone had the same experience as I have.
>Got a Vibroplex Classic a few months ago and took quite awhile to get the
>adjustments right and it is sounding very decent on the K3. No secondary dit
>chirp, contacts clean and all is good.
>I then put it on the K2 and all those chirpy dits like an intermittent show
>up and really sound like a lid on the air. Tried the K1 also with same
>results.
>go back to the K3 and all is normal.
>All I can figure is the keying circuit must need more time/better contact
>than the K3?
>Hate to adjust the bug for fear it will be whacked out and take me hours to
>get it set to the K3 again.
>Not a show stopper but a ponder.
>
>Thanks
>
>73es
>
>Werner   N8BB
>______________________________________________________________

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Re: Vibroplex Bug

AC7AC
In reply to this post by Denise&Werner
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Re: Vibroplex Bug

Vic K2VCO
Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> I suspect you're experiencing "scratchy" or intermittent dits, not chirp.
> ("Chirp" is when your frequency shifts up or down during the initial
> milliseconds after the key closes)
>
> As others pointed out, a good low resistance contact is *required* by modern
> rigs that key a low voltage/low current line, which is a problem with
> mechanical contacts, especially contacts that just "bump" with little
> pressure like the dit contacts on a bug.

Deoxit helps, as Ron says. Also intermittent cleaning with a business card. But the real
solution for bug keying of modern rigs -- even the K3, which *is* better than the K2 at
this -- is a simple circuit composed of a reed relay with a capacitor across the coil to
soak up the contact bounce.

Here is a description and schematic. You will need to use a fixed-width font to see it
properly:

Get a radio shack 12 volt SPST reed relay (275-233) or similar. One side of the relay coil
goes to the positive terminal of a 9v battery and the other side goes to your bug's
ungrounded contacts.  In parallel with the coil put a 4.7 to 10uf 25v electrolytic
capacitor (also from Radio Shack) and any silicon diode.  Orient the capactitor so that
the positive side goes to the coil terminal that is connected to the battery.  The diode
is reverse-connected; its CATHODE goes to the coil terminal that is connected to the
battery.  Finally, connect the negative side of the battery to the bug's grounded side.
If you want to run the circuit from a 12v supply instead of a battery, put an 820 ohm 1/4w
resistor in series with the 12v.

                           coil
           |------------+@@@@@@@+--------> to bug
           |            |       |
           - +          +--| (--+ 4.7 to 10 uf capacitor
          --- - 9v      |       |
           |            +--|<---+ diode
           |------------------------------>
          ///

Here's a photo of such a circuit attached to a bug:
<http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/Bug640.jpg>

The value of the capacitor should be the smallest necessary clean up the bounce. The large
it is, the more it will stretch the dots and you will have to adjust the dwell time of the
dot contact on your bug to compensate.

Yes, I have tried various electronic debouncing circuits, and none of them proved as
satisfactory to me as this simple one. The relay is almost silent (the slight tick is
drowned out by the noise of the bug).
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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Re: Vibroplex Bug

Bob Cunnings NW8L
In reply to this post by Denise&Werner
Have you tried a bit of foam tucked into the "U" shape of the dit
contact spring?

Bob NW8L

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:15 AM,
Denise&Werner<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello group
>
> Was wondering if anyone had the same experience as I have.
> Got a Vibroplex Classic a few months ago and took quite awhile to get the
> adjustments right and it is sounding very decent on the K3. No secondary dit
> chirp, contacts clean and all is good.
> I then put it on the K2 and all those chirpy dits like an intermittent show
> up and really sound like a lid on the air. Tried the K1 also with same
> results.
> go back to the K3 and all is normal.
> All I can figure is the keying circuit must need more time/better contact
> than the K3?
> Hate to adjust the bug for fear it will be whacked out and take me hours to
> get it set to the K3 again.
> Not a show stopper but a ponder.
>
> Thanks
>
> 73es
>
> Werner   N8BB
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: Vibroplex Bug

P.B. Christensen
In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO
> Deoxit helps, as Ron says. Also intermittent cleaning with a business
> card. But the real
> solution for bug keying of modern rigs -- even the K3, which *is* better
> than the K2 at
> this -- is a simple circuit composed of a reed relay with a capacitor
> across the coil to
> soak up the contact bounce.

Another solution is to create a solid-state buffer between the bug key line
and the rig.  In the past, I've used a Schottky-input gate, driving a 2N7000
transistor to the key line.

An off-the-shelf solution, might consist of the microHam PIC-based
debouncer, developed by K1EL.  It was designed primarily for iambic paddles
with dissimilar metal contacts, but it may be possible to adapt it for bug
use.  W4TV would know for sure.

http://www.microham-usa.com/Products/Begali.html

Paul, W9AC


 

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Re: Vibroplex Bug

Steve Ellington
In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO
All you need is a 1uf capacitor across the bug contacts. Radio Shack has
some that are small enough to fit in an RCA plug! Actually .5 UF is enough
so I have 2 ea. 1UF in series. These eliminate the mushy and double dit
symptom. Cleaning doesn't always work. Some modern rigs such as the K3 and
Omni 7 are overly sensitive to switch noise and the cap will clear it up.
Radio Shack PN is:  272-1434
Steve
N4LQ
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vic K2VCO" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Elecraft List'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Vibroplex Bug


> Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>> I suspect you're experiencing "scratchy" or intermittent dits, not chirp.
>> ("Chirp" is when your frequency shifts up or down during the initial
>> milliseconds after the key closes)
>>
>> As others pointed out, a good low resistance contact is *required* by
>> modern
>> rigs that key a low voltage/low current line, which is a problem with
>> mechanical contacts, especially contacts that just "bump" with little
>> pressure like the dit contacts on a bug.
>
> Deoxit helps, as Ron says. Also intermittent cleaning with a business
> card. But the real
> solution for bug keying of modern rigs -- even the K3, which *is* better
> than the K2 at
> this -- is a simple circuit composed of a reed relay with a capacitor
> across the coil to
> soak up the contact bounce.
>
> Here is a description and schematic. You will need to use a fixed-width
> font to see it
> properly:
>
> Get a radio shack 12 volt SPST reed relay (275-233) or similar. One side
> of the relay coil
> goes to the positive terminal of a 9v battery and the other side goes to
> your bug's
> ungrounded contacts.  In parallel with the coil put a 4.7 to 10uf 25v
> electrolytic
> capacitor (also from Radio Shack) and any silicon diode.  Orient the
> capactitor so that
> the positive side goes to the coil terminal that is connected to the
> battery.  The diode
> is reverse-connected; its CATHODE goes to the coil terminal that is
> connected to the
> battery.  Finally, connect the negative side of the battery to the bug's
> grounded side.
> If you want to run the circuit from a 12v supply instead of a battery, put
> an 820 ohm 1/4w
> resistor in series with the 12v.
>
>                           coil
>           |------------+@@@@@@@+--------> to bug
>           |            |       |
>           - +          +--| (--+ 4.7 to 10 uf capacitor
>          --- - 9v      |       |
>           |            +--|<---+ diode
>           |------------------------------>
>          ///
>
> Here's a photo of such a circuit attached to a bug:
> <http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/Bug640.jpg>
>
> The value of the capacitor should be the smallest necessary clean up the
> bounce. The large
> it is, the more it will stretch the dots and you will have to adjust the
> dwell time of the
> dot contact on your bug to compensate.
>
> Yes, I have tried various electronic debouncing circuits, and none of them
> proved as
> satisfactory to me as this simple one. The relay is almost silent (the
> slight tick is
> drowned out by the noise of the bug).
> --
> 73,
> Vic, K2VCO
> Fresno CA
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Re: Vibroplex Bug

AC7AC
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Re: Vibroplex Bug

Guy, K2AV
Need to remember that in the days when bugs were king, the typical
voltage being keyed was between a cathode(s) and ground (often a
couple hundred volts at several hundred ma) or bias voltage (75, 105,
150 volts). Turn off the lights and key the bug keying an 807 rig, and
you could see the sparks.  Stuff of the time was never designed for 12
volts at 7 ma or the like. Even with the higher voltages and currents
had problems with contact bounce and resistance.

That was why when keyers started showing up, the sealed mercury-wetted
relays surplus from somewhere in the Bell System were all the rage.
No contact bounce or contact resistance problems.

One could really get tossed across the room by touching the "hot'
parts of the key.

73, Guy.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The problem I dealt with is not contact bounce, but contacts that do not
> make a low enough resistance connection to trigger the logic properly. It
> sounded like that was Werner's problem too.
>
> It's easy to see the contact resistance issue using a scope on the key line.
> The key voltage simply isn't being pulled down far enough to reliably key
> the rig unless the contacts are *very* clean, and without adequate current
> flowing through them to maintain a self-cleaning action, they quickly
> oxidize again without help - or some other way to key the rig like Vic's
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