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W2 Question about SWR Reading

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KD8NNU

W2 Question about SWR Reading

I have been using my W2 for about a week now and I am trying to
understand why it is doing what it is doing.

Basically I can get my SWR reading tuned in fine using normal tuning
procedures and then turn on the amp and whistle in it and the SWR
changes very little.

However when I go to TX using phone it bounces all over the place and
goes signficanlty higher than I would expect. This bouncing effect is
tuner engaged or no engaged with resonant areas of the antennas.

The sensor is between my antenna tuner and amp. The amp kicks out with
anything over 2:1 SWR (SGC Powercube).

This happens on all three of my antennas my 2wl 160m Loop, Alpha Delta
Dipole and 75m vertical.

Now the meter on the tuner when tuner properly or resonant can sit still
or move very little in these cases. However the sensor is after the
tuner and before the amp.

Anyway, I am thinking there is something to be learned about what this
is telling me as I am guessing that those fast LED's give data faster
than the needle of the meter can move.

So is this normal or is it pointing to a problem in my shack or antenna
system that I need to look to correct.

Otherwise I have no problems at all in the shack or signal report
problems. I just have a conversation on Friday night on 40m where we
were discussing TX signals and one guy with a pan adaptor said my signal
looked perfect almost like a square wave 2.9 Khz wide no distorshion and
it sounds great. Compared to the guy we were trying to help who was
overdriveing his radio so bad that he had what was described as an
almost AM looking signal.

Anyway I am posting fishing for information on what this is telling me
so I can be sure I have stuff working as well as I can.

Cheers
Don

~73
Don
KD8NNU
FH#4107
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: W2 Question about SWR Reading

Don,

I am confused about where your sensor is.
In one paragraph, you say the sensor is "between my antenna tuner and amp"
further down you say the sensor is "after the tuner and before the amp"

So, do you have the sensor at the output of your driver and before the
input of your amplifier, or is the sensor at the output of your
amplifier and before the input to your tuner?

One thing is to be indicated by that flickering of SWR is that something
is changing characteristics with power variation.
But with the confusion of your sensor location it is difficult to say
whether that is at the amp input, the tuner input or the antenna system.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/2/2012 8:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I have been using my W2 for about a week now and I am trying to
> understand why it is doing what it is doing.
>
> Basically I can get my SWR reading tuned in fine using normal tuning
> procedures and then turn on the amp and whistle in it and the SWR
> changes very little.
>
> However when I go to TX using phone it bounces all over the place and
> goes signficanlty higher than I would expect. This bouncing effect is
> tuner engaged or no engaged with resonant areas of the antennas.
>
>

KD8NNU

Re: W2 Question about SWR Reading

In reply to this post by KD8NNU

Sorry for the confusion.

Sensor is after the output of the driver and before the input of the
tuner.

AMP-------Sensor-------Tuner------coax to antennas

So how does one determine what is changing with power variation.

~73
Don
KD8NNU
FH#4107

On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Don,
>
> I am confused about where your sensor is.
> In one paragraph, you say the sensor is "between my antenna tuner and
> amp"
> further down you say the sensor is "after the tuner and before the
> amp"
>
> So, do you have the sensor at the output of your driver and before the
> input of your amplifier, or is the sensor at the output of your
> amplifier and before the input to your tuner?
>
> One thing is to be indicated by that flickering of SWR is that
> something is changing characteristics with power variation.
> But with the confusion of your sensor location it is difficult to say
> whether that is at the amp input, the tuner input or the antenna
> system.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 9/2/2012 8:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> I have been using my W2 for about a week now and I am trying to
>> understand why it is doing what it is doing.
>>
>> Basically I can get my SWR reading tuned in fine using normal tuning
>> procedures and then turn on the amp and whistle in it and the SWR
>> changes very little.
>>
>> However when I go to TX using phone it bounces all over the place and
>> goes signficanlty higher than I would expect. This bouncing effect
>> is
>> tuner engaged or no engaged with resonant areas of the antennas.
>>
>>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: W2 Question about SWR Reading

Don,

It will be after the sensor (toward the antennas).
Check at lower power and see if the situation still exists. If so, then
I think you are looking for a loose connection. Finger-tight on PL-259s
is not good enough, be sure the PL259 is well seated in the notches of
the SO-239. If you can rotate the barrel at all, it is loose.
Tighten slightly tighter than finger-tight with a tool. The UHF
connectors depend on being fully tightened for a good connection for the
shield side. Make those checks at the sensor, tuner and all coax lines
to your antenna switch. Since it is common to all antennas, I think you
will find it is between the sensor and where you split off to the 3
antennas.

If OTOH, you have sound behavior at lower power levels, you are looking
for something arcing at higher powers. You would still want to check
the tightening of the connectors, but also look for any place that could
be arcing between the center conductor and the shield.
If your tuner has a roller inductor, a bit of lubrication on the contact
roller may be in order.

Good luck and 73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/2/2012 9:05 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> Sensor is after the output of the driver and before the input of the
> tuner.
>
> AMP-------Sensor-------Tuner------coax to antennas
>
> So how does one determine what is changing with power variation.
>
> ~73
> Don
> KD8NNU
> FH#4107
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>> Don,
>>
>> I am confused about where your sensor is.
>> In one paragraph, you say the sensor is "between my antenna tuner and
>> amp"
>> further down you say the sensor is "after the tuner and before the
>> amp"
>>
>> So, do you have the sensor at the output of your driver and before the
>> input of your amplifier, or is the sensor at the output of your
>> amplifier and before the input to your tuner?
>>
>> One thing is to be indicated by that flickering of SWR is that
>> something is changing characteristics with power variation.
>> But with the confusion of your sensor location it is difficult to say
>> whether that is at the amp input, the tuner input or the antenna
>> system.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 9/2/2012 8:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> I have been using my W2 for about a week now and I am trying to
>>> understand why it is doing what it is doing.
>>>
>>> Basically I can get my SWR reading tuned in fine using normal tuning
>>> procedures and then turn on the amp and whistle in it and the SWR
>>> changes very little.
>>>
>>> However when I go to TX using phone it bounces all over the place and
>>> goes signficanlty higher than I would expect. This bouncing effect
>>> is
>>> tuner engaged or no engaged with resonant areas of the antennas.
>>>
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Dick Dievendorff

Re: W2 Question about SWR Reading

What kind of transmitter is this? Could the transmitter be overshooting
initially and then settling down to the desired power level?

Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:41 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: elecraft list
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] W2 Question about SWR Reading

Don,

It will be after the sensor (toward the antennas).
Check at lower power and see if the situation still exists. If so, then I
think you are looking for a loose connection. Finger-tight on PL-259s is
not good enough, be sure the PL259 is well seated in the notches of the
SO-239. If you can rotate the barrel at all, it is loose.
Tighten slightly tighter than finger-tight with a tool. The UHF connectors
depend on being fully tightened for a good connection for the shield side.
Make those checks at the sensor, tuner and all coax lines to your antenna
switch. Since it is common to all antennas, I think you will find it is
between the sensor and where you split off to the 3 antennas.

If OTOH, you have sound behavior at lower power levels, you are looking for
something arcing at higher powers. You would still want to check the
tightening of the connectors, but also look for any place that could be
arcing between the center conductor and the shield.
If your tuner has a roller inductor, a bit of lubrication on the contact
roller may be in order.

Good luck and 73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/2/2012 9:05 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> Sensor is after the output of the driver and before the input of the
> tuner.
>
> AMP-------Sensor-------Tuner------coax to antennas
>
> So how does one determine what is changing with power variation.
>
> ~73
> Don
> KD8NNU
> FH#4107
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>> Don,
>>
>> I am confused about where your sensor is.
>> In one paragraph, you say the sensor is "between my antenna tuner and
>> amp"
>> further down you say the sensor is "after the tuner and before the
>> amp"
>>
>> So, do you have the sensor at the output of your driver and before
>> the input of your amplifier, or is the sensor at the output of your
>> amplifier and before the input to your tuner?
>>
>> One thing is to be indicated by that flickering of SWR is that
>> something is changing characteristics with power variation.
>> But with the confusion of your sensor location it is difficult to say
>> whether that is at the amp input, the tuner input or the antenna
>> system.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 9/2/2012 8:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> I have been using my W2 for about a week now and I am trying to
>>> understand why it is doing what it is doing.
>>>
>>> Basically I can get my SWR reading tuned in fine using normal tuning
>>> procedures and then turn on the amp and whistle in it and the SWR
>>> changes very little.
>>>
>>> However when I go to TX using phone it bounces all over the place and
>>> goes signficanlty higher than I would expect. This bouncing effect
>>> is
>>> tuner engaged or no engaged with resonant areas of the antennas.
>>>
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

KD8NNU

Re: W2 Question about SWR Reading

In reply to this post by KD8NNU

K3 to Anc-4 to sgc power cube to w2 sensor and mfj tuner. Thermal all antennas.

Don't hammer me for the tuner I was a new ham at the time I base no reference

KD8NNU
Don

Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

----- Reply message -----
From: "Dick Dievendorff" <[hidden email]>
Date: Sun, Sep 2, 2012 10:09 am
Subject: [Elecraft] W2 Question about SWR Reading
To: <[hidden email]>, <[hidden email]>
Cc: "'elecraft list'" <[hidden email]>

What kind of transmitter is this? Could the transmitter be overshooting
initially and then settling down to the desired power level?

Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:41 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: elecraft list
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] W2 Question about SWR Reading

Don,

It will be after the sensor (toward the antennas).
Check at lower power and see if the situation still exists. If so, then I
think you are looking for a loose connection. Finger-tight on PL-259s is
not good enough, be sure the PL259 is well seated in the notches of the
SO-239. If you can rotate the barrel at all, it is loose.
Tighten slightly tighter than finger-tight with a tool. The UHF connectors
depend on being fully tightened for a good connection for the shield side.
Make those checks at the sensor, tuner and all coax lines to your antenna
switch. Since it is common to all antennas, I think you will find it is
between the sensor and where you split off to the 3 antennas.

If OTOH, you have sound behavior at lower power levels, you are looking for
something arcing at higher powers. You would still want to check the
tightening of the connectors, but also look for any place that could be
arcing between the center conductor and the shield.
If your tuner has a roller inductor, a bit of lubrication on the contact
roller may be in order.

Good luck and 73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/2/2012 9:05 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> Sensor is after the output of the driver and before the input of the
> tuner.
>
> AMP-------Sensor-------Tuner------coax to antennas
>
> So how does one determine what is changing with power variation.
>
> ~73
> Don
> KD8NNU
> FH#4107
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>> Don,
>>
>> I am confused about where your sensor is.
>> In one paragraph, you say the sensor is "between my antenna tuner and
>> amp"
>> further down you say the sensor is "after the tuner and before the
>> amp"
>>
>> So, do you have the sensor at the output of your driver and before
>> the input of your amplifier, or is the sensor at the output of your
>> amplifier and before the input to your tuner?
>>
>> One thing is to be indicated by that flickering of SWR is that
>> something is changing characteristics with power variation.
>> But with the confusion of your sensor location it is difficult to say
>> whether that is at the amp input, the tuner input or the antenna
>> system.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 9/2/2012 8:34 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> I have been using my W2 for about a week now and I am trying to
>>> understand why it is doing what it is doing.
>>>
>>> Basically I can get my SWR reading tuned in fine using normal tuning
>>> procedures and then turn on the amp and whistle in it and the SWR
>>> changes very little.
>>>
>>> However when I go to TX using phone it bounces all over the place and
>>> goes signficanlty higher than I would expect. This bouncing effect
>>> is
>>> tuner engaged or no engaged with resonant areas of the antennas.
>>>
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>