WRTC - Rig choices for the contest explained!

[Lu Romero - W4LT]

All:

Well, I certainly poked a rather large stick into the
Amateur Radio Contesting ant hill, didnt I?  Lots of ants
are scurrying around wondering if my between-the-lines
conjecture is a seachange for some.

Aparently, its not.  

Tim Duffy, K3LR, personally sent me an email regarding my
post's questions (!).  He asked that I relay his reasons for
using a K3 in WRTC to all of you.  I have cut them and
pasted them in this post.  His reasons are certainly
plausible.  They are as follows (the enphasis is not mine,
this is a literal cut and paste):

----------- snip -------------

K3LR was not the WRTC TEAM LEADER – K3LR was a TEAM MATE
of N2NT. As a TEAM MATE K3LR did not have the final decision
on what radios would be used by our team. K3LR used the
radios that the TEAM LEADER selected.

However, it was good for K3LR to use a K3 (for the first
time). K3LR has been asked many times how a K3 compares to
the Icom IC 7800 and IC 7700. Now K3LR knows the operational
“contest” differences between the Icom radios and a K3.

So the result is that the K3LR Multi Multi station will STAY
100% Icom IC7800 and IC7700!

------------ snip -----------

So there you have it.  

I will leave it to others in the contesting ecosystem to add
any more conjecture to my thoughts.  I had valid questions
and opinions, and I got a plausible answer.

This discussion has helped me remember why my wife suggests
that I wear my wedding ring when I travel out of town and
elbows me in the ribs when my flirtations with other ladies
at cocktail parties cross her "line of reasonableness"...
:)  

Best 73

Lu Romero - W4LT


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[juergen piezo]

Hi Lu

All meaningless really.  Whats evident from the list is that many still prefer the big radio layout like the FT1000 for its ergonomics.  

If rig selection was so important we should all go out and buy FT450's  since the winner used that radio.

I am sure if you had the hardware that K3LR has in the air, you could win any contest even with a IC706!

Until a  bigger K4 is released the K3's small size and ergonomics will always be a factor in anyone's purchasing decision.  Everyone that I have demonstrated the K3 too, that person has always criticized  the radios small size and ergonomics for whatever that criticism is worth.

I am waiting for the K4 or K3B(BIG)!

73
John


--- On Sun, 7/18/10, Lu Romero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Lu Romero <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] WRTC - Rig choices for the contest explained!
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 1:48 AM
> All:
>
> Well, I certainly poked a rather large stick into the
> Amateur Radio Contesting ant hill, didnt I?  Lots of
> ants
> are scurrying around wondering if my between-the-lines
> conjecture is a seachange for some.
>
> Aparently, its not. 
>
> Tim Duffy, K3LR, personally sent me an email regarding my
> post's questions (!).  He asked that I relay his
> reasons for
> using a K3 in WRTC to all of you.  I have cut them
> and
> pasted them in this post.  His reasons are certainly
> plausible.  They are as follows (the enphasis is not
> mine,
> this is a literal cut and paste):
>
> ----------- snip -------------
>
> K3LR was not the WRTC TEAM LEADER – K3LR was a TEAM MATE
> of N2NT. As a TEAM MATE K3LR did not have the final
> decision
> on what radios would be used by our team. K3LR used the
> radios that the TEAM LEADER selected.
>
> However, it was good for K3LR to use a K3 (for the first
> time). K3LR has been asked many times how a K3 compares to
> the Icom IC 7800 and IC 7700. Now K3LR knows the
> operational
> “contest” differences between the Icom radios and a K3.
>
>
> So the result is that the K3LR Multi Multi station will
> STAY
> 100% Icom IC7800 and IC7700!
>
> ------------ snip -----------
>
> So there you have it.   
>
> I will leave it to others in the contesting ecosystem to
> add
> any more conjecture to my thoughts.  I had valid
> questions
> and opinions, and I got a plausible answer.
>
> This discussion has helped me remember why my wife
> suggests
> that I wear my wedding ring when I travel out of town and
> elbows me in the ribs when my flirtations with other
> ladies
> at cocktail parties cross her "line of reasonableness"...
> :) 
>
> Best 73
>
> Lu Romero - W4LT
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

     
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[John Ragle]

On 7/18/2010 6:44 AM, juergen wrote
> Until a  bigger K4 is released the K3's small size and ergonomics will always be a factor in anyone's purchasing decision.
>    
=====

Egad! a BIGGER K3? I think the K3 is a beautiful example of a
Tardis...much larger inside than outside. This is a sign of the large
internal positive spatial curvature that the K3 possess.

If one wants it bigger outside, one could always get a big box and put
the K3 inside. IMNSHO the form factor is pleasantly correct (and I have
pudgy fingers).  Puh-leez Elecraft, don't expand the form factor! Ham
radio is not Detroit. (Well, tail fins, maybe, if they're pink.)

John Ragle -- W1ZI

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[Lu Romero - W4LT]

Sure its all meaningless!  Its only Ham Radio!  But rig
selection is such a personal thing!  The winners must be
extremely talented operators to win using FT450's!  Imagine
what they would have done with a real radio :)

On the K3, I look at it the other way.

A 7800/7700 would have collapsed my operating table.  I
really dont want to call my neighbor to help me lift it out
of the shipping crate.

I wanted something small with high performance.  I used to
have a house full of Heathkits, built all of them, and
really miss the kit building experience.  I wanted something
that resembled my Kenwood rigs which I have owned for the
past 25 years in operating logic.  I wanted something that I
would not be afraid to open up and modify myself.  I wanted
something with reasonable performance at a reasonable cost.
Im not in this to impress my friends with my financial
ability, Im in this to make QSO's and have fun and still be
able to take my family to dinner out and go on vacation.  My
7800 owning friends all have a leather jacket they got for
"free" with their rig they cant wear in Florida.  I have a
Elecraft K3 button that I can pin on my name tag that I got
for free at the Orlando Hamcation.

If Kenwood had had something worth using, the decision would
have been easy.  I would have looked there first.  I have a
long history with Kenwood (TS520 to TS570 over 25 years),
and I love their ergonomics.  Im not a fan of Yaesu and I
tolerate Icom and TenTec ergonomics.  If I could have bought
a TS950SDX new in the box, I would have.  But its 15 year
old technology now.  I will seriously look at the TS590 when
its released to replace my TS570.  If the performace/price
ratio is what they say it is, it will make a formidable
second rig for me (and keep me in Kenwoods).  

My club has a 7700.  Four of my friends have 7800'ds.  Nice
rigs, but I have two kids in college and I have a hard time
justifying spending eleven grand on a rig because I have to
have a "real" second receiver for my main radio.  Plus its
so damn big and heavy!

I struggled with Flex 5000 vs K3 for a long time.  Do I
really need to replace my beloved 14 year old TS850?  K3 won
out because of its form factor and its upgradeability.  I
like the fact that its small and light.  I rarely touch
knobs other than the volume, RF gain and bandwidth controls
and the VFO.  Everything else is done through my logger
computer.  But I STILL have knobs to twirl when I dont have
a computer running.  And I dont have to be at the mercy of
Windows to run my radio.  Its size is not a problem to me,
its knobs are big enough and its form factor simplicity is
beautiful in its own way.  I am still debating a P3... Do I
even need the features of a band scope?  When I use Icoms, I
hardly ever look at the scope, I use my ears and that big
knob in the center of the panel to find multipliers.

In my book, K3 was the perfect compromise between
performance form factor cost and utility.    

That is the glory of life!  We have choices!

-lu-

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: juergen <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WRTC - Rig choices for the contest
explained!
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 03:44:24 -0700 (PDT)

>Hi Lu
>
>All meaningless really.  Whats evident from the list is
>that many still prefer the big radio layout like the FT1000
>for its ergonomics.  
>
>If rig selection was so important we should all go out and
>buy FT450's  since the winner used that radio.
>
>I am sure if you had the hardware that K3LR has in the air,
>you could win any contest even with a IC706!
>
>Until a  bigger K4 is released the K3's small size and
>ergonomics will always be a factor in anyone's purchasing
>decision.  Everyone that I have demonstrated the K3 too,
>that person has always criticized  the radios small size
>and ergonomics for whatever that criticism is worth.
>
>I am waiting for the K4 or K3B(BIG)!
>
>73
>John
>
>
>--- On Sun, 7/18/10, Lu Romero <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Lu Romero <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [Elecraft] WRTC - Rig choices for the contest
>> explained! To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 1:48 AM
>> All:
>>
>> Well, I certainly poked a rather large stick into the
>> Amateur Radio Contesting ant hill, didnt I?  Lots of
>> ants
>> are scurrying around wondering if my between-the-lines
>> conjecture is a seachange for some.
>>
>> Aparently, its not. 
>>
>> Tim Duffy, K3LR, personally sent me an email regarding my
>> post's questions (!).  He asked that I relay his
>> reasons for
>> using a K3 in WRTC to all of you.  I have cut them
>> and
>> pasted them in this post.  His reasons are certainly
>> plausible.  They are as follows (the enphasis is not
>> mine,
>> this is a literal cut and paste):
>>
>> ----------- snip -------------
>>
>> K3LR was not the WRTC TEAM LEADER – K3LR was a TEAM
>> MATE of N2NT. As a TEAM MATE K3LR did not have the final
>> decision
>> on what radios would be used by our team. K3LR used the
>> radios that the TEAM LEADER selected.
>>
>> However, it was good for K3LR to use a K3 (for the first
>> time). K3LR has been asked many times how a K3 compares
>> to the Icom IC 7800 and IC 7700. Now K3LR knows the
>> operational
>> “contest” differences between the Icom radios

and a

>> K3.
>>
>> So the result is that the K3LR Multi Multi station will
>> STAY
>> 100% Icom IC7800 and IC7700!
>>
>> ------------ snip -----------
>>
>> So there you have it.   
>>
>> I will leave it to others in the contesting ecosystem to
>> add
>> any more conjecture to my thoughts.  I had valid
>> questions
>> and opinions, and I got a plausible answer.
>>
>> This discussion has helped me remember why my wife
>> suggests
>> that I wear my wedding ring when I travel out of town and
>> elbows me in the ribs when my flirtations with other
>> ladies
>> at cocktail parties cross her "line of reasonableness"...
>> :) 
>>
>> Best 73
>>
>> Lu Romero - W4LT
>>
>>
>>
>___________________________________________________________
>> ___ Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list:
>>       http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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[AD4C2009]

That might be the opinion of K3LR of chosing Icom radios for contesting but here in FL the big contesters are all replacing their IC-7700/7800 and FT-1000MP for K3's because after all the tests done in the last contests K3 has been better in performance within a very crowded band.
Its just a matter of opinions and operating skills.
 
AD4C
 


"If you see a driver handling a cell phone on her/his hands while driving,do please stay away from that vehicle,its a moving bomb.Your life is at danger.Keep yourself and your family alive"

--- On Sun, 7/18/10, Lu Romero <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Lu Romero <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] WRTC - Rig choices for the contest explained!
To: [hidden email]
Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 8:48 AM


All:

Well, I certainly poked a rather large stick into the
Amateur Radio Contesting ant hill, didnt I?  Lots of ants
are scurrying around wondering if my between-the-lines
conjecture is a seachange for some.

Aparently, its not. 

Tim Duffy, K3LR, personally sent me an email regarding my
post's questions (!).  He asked that I relay his reasons for
using a K3 in WRTC to all of you.  I have cut them and
pasted them in this post.  His reasons are certainly
plausible.  They are as follows (the enphasis is not mine,
this is a literal cut and paste):

----------- snip -------------

K3LR was not the WRTC TEAM LEADER – K3LR was a TEAM MATE
of N2NT. As a TEAM MATE K3LR did not have the final decision
on what radios would be used by our team. K3LR used the
radios that the TEAM LEADER selected.

However, it was good for K3LR to use a K3 (for the first
time). K3LR has been asked many times how a K3 compares to
the Icom IC 7800 and IC 7700. Now K3LR knows the operational
“contest” differences between the Icom radios and a K3.

So the result is that the K3LR Multi Multi station will STAY
100% Icom IC7800 and IC7700!

------------ snip -----------

So there you have it.   

I will leave it to others in the contesting ecosystem to add
any more conjecture to my thoughts.  I had valid questions
and opinions, and I got a plausible answer.

This discussion has helped me remember why my wife suggests
that I wear my wedding ring when I travel out of town and
elbows me in the ribs when my flirtations with other ladies
at cocktail parties cross her "line of reasonableness"...
:) 

Best 73

Lu Romero - W4LT


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[Lu Romero - W4LT]

I was wondering when you would chime in, Amigo!

The winners used FT450's.  That ought to tell you the
caliber of those operators :)

Anyway, lets argue about something more substantiatable,
like Religion or Politics  :)

-lu-

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Hector Padron <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WRTC - Rig choices for the contest
explained!
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 05:30:17 -0700 (PDT)

>That might be the opinion of K3LR of chosing Icom radios
>for contesting but here in FL the big contesters are all
>replacing their IC-7700/7800 and FT-1000MP for K3's because
>after all the tests done in the last contests K3 has been
>better in performance within a very crowded band. Its just
>a matter of opinions and operating skills.  
>AD4C
> 
>
>
>"If you see a driver handling a cell phone on her/his hands
>while driving,do please stay away from that vehicle,its a
>moving bomb.Your life is at danger.Keep yourself and your
>family alive"
>
>--- On Sun, 7/18/10, Lu Romero <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>From: Lu Romero <[hidden email]>
>Subject: [Elecraft] WRTC - Rig choices for the contest
>explained! To: [hidden email]
>Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 8:48 AM
>
>
>All:
>
>Well, I certainly poked a rather large stick into the
>Amateur Radio Contesting ant hill, didnt I?  Lots of

ants
>are scurrying around wondering if my between-the-lines
>conjecture is a seachange for some.
>
>Aparently, its not. 
>
>Tim Duffy, K3LR, personally sent me an email regarding my
>post's questions (!).  He asked that I relay his
reasons
>for using a K3 in WRTC to all of you.  I have cut them
and
>pasted them in this post.  His reasons are certainly
>plausible.  They are as follows (the enphasis is not
mine,
>this is a literal cut and paste):
>
>----------- snip -------------
>
>K3LR was not the WRTC TEAM LEADER – K3LR was a TEAM
MATE
>of N2NT. As a TEAM MATE K3LR did not have the final
>decision on what radios would be used by our team. K3LR
>used the radios that the TEAM LEADER selected.
>
>However, it was good for K3LR to use a K3 (for the first
>time). K3LR has been asked many times how a K3 compares to
>the Icom IC 7800 and IC 7700. Now K3LR knows the
>operational “contest” differences between the
Icom

>radios and a K3.
>
>So the result is that the K3LR Multi Multi station will
>STAY 100% Icom IC7800 and IC7700!
>
>------------ snip -----------
>
>So there you have it.   
>
>I will leave it to others in the contesting ecosystem to
>add any more conjecture to my thoughts.  I had valid
>questions and opinions, and I got a plausible answer.
>
>This discussion has helped me remember why my wife suggests
>that I wear my wedding ring when I travel out of town and
>elbows me in the ribs when my flirtations with other ladies
>at cocktail parties cross her "line of reasonableness"...
>:) 
>
>Best 73
>
>Lu Romero - W4LT
>
>
>___________________________________________________________
>___ Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list:
>http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>      

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[Fred Atchley]

Lu Romero wrote: I am still debating a P3... Do I even need the features of
a band scope?  When I use Icoms, I hardly ever look at the scope, I use my
ears and that big knob in the center of the panel to find multipliers.

<End snip>

I agree. My previous 3 rigs were Jupiter, Orion (1) and then OMNI VII. For
me, their bandsopes were more of a distraction than a help. On the other
hand, the P3's waterfall will add a new dimension to contesting and DXing.
If you are in a QSO party for your state, then you are "DX". In that case
the waterfall will visualize frequencies that are less crowded. Added to
that, the P3 lets you spot the K3 right on a discovered frequency with a
push of a button. I'd rather have a capability that helps than a useless
toy.  

73, Fred, AE6IC, K3 2241

 

" Do or Do-not. There is no 'Try'..." ~ Yoda

 

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[k6dgw]

Many years ago as a teen ham [OK, way more years ago than "many," dirt
was young then] I had an SX-28 receiver.  For the newbies,
radioblvd.com/SX28Notes  I sold it when I was about to graduate from Cal
Poly in 1962.

Several years ago, I "inherited" a stock SX-28 with speaker from the
estate of Woody, W6ANX.  Nostalgia reigned for awhile, I used it on CW
with my K2 as the TX on SKN and a few others.  Then nostalgia faded, and
I began to realize:

1.  The RX, which sounded really good on AM left a lot to be desired in
the stability, resetability, sensitivity, selectivity, noise reduction,
AGC, and size departments, not to mention SSB reception capability.

2.  It weighed in a close to 100 US lbs, I could no longer lift it by
myself as I could at 16, and it's primary purpose in the shack seemed to
have faded to holding down the operating desk against gravity outages.

I finally donated it to the radio museum in Virginia City where it was
restored and resides today.  Scroll down the above URL a bit to S/N  
H-130170 for a peek.

I had a little problem at first with the lack of weight of my K3 ...
pushing the buttons caused it to slip a little on the rubber feet.  I
cut a piece of that non-slip stuff [sort of a lacework] and solved the
problem.  I do not want a heavy radio anymore, K3 is great for me.

73,

Fred K6DGW

Lu Romero wrote:
> A 7800/7700 would have collapsed my operating table.  I
> really dont want to call my neighbor to help me lift it out
> of the shipping crate.
>  

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[ussv dharma]

Peoples:
I know this is off topic but I need help....I switched to Mozilla and now a box called "xmarks" keeps popping up asking me to use it ,....what is it?

Great Grandmaw Susan
If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm  AFA9SM                         USSV DHARMA 


--- On Sun, 7/18/10, FredJensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: FredJensen <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WRTC - Rig choices for the contest explained!
> To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 5:53 AM
> Many years ago as a teen ham [OK, way
> more years ago than "many," dirt
> was young then] I had an SX-28 receiver.  For the
> newbies,
> radioblvd.com/SX28Notes  I sold it when I was about to
> graduate from Cal
> Poly in 1962.
>
> Several years ago, I "inherited" a stock SX-28 with speaker
> from the
> estate of Woody, W6ANX.  Nostalgia reigned for awhile,
> I used it on CW
> with my K2 as the TX on SKN and a few others.  Then
> nostalgia faded, and
> I began to realize:
>
> 1.  The RX, which sounded really good on AM left a lot
> to be desired in
> the stability, resetability, sensitivity, selectivity,
> noise reduction,
> AGC, and size departments, not to mention SSB reception
> capability.
>
> 2.  It weighed in a close to 100 US lbs, I could no
> longer lift it by
> myself as I could at 16, and it's primary purpose in the
> shack seemed to
> have faded to holding down the operating desk against
> gravity outages.
>
> I finally donated it to the radio museum in Virginia City
> where it was
> restored and resides today.  Scroll down the above URL
> a bit to S/N 
> H-130170 for a peek.
>
> I had a little problem at first with the lack of weight of
> my K3 ...
> pushing the buttons caused it to slip a little on the
> rubber feet.  I
> cut a piece of that non-slip stuff [sort of a lacework] and
> solved the
> problem.  I do not want a heavy radio anymore, K3 is
> great for me.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
>
> Lu Romero wrote:
> > A 7800/7700 would have collapsed my operating
> table.  I
> > really dont want to call my neighbor to help me lift
> it out
> > of the shipping crate.
> >   
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Susan,

If you use multiple computers, x-marks is a must-have in my opinion.
You allows you to synchronize your bookmarks (and optionally passwords)
on all your computers.
I prefer not to use it for passwords, but I certainly don't care if
someone in cyberspace cracks in and finds what my bookmarks are - they
will find the weather links, and a lot of ham radio sites, and they will
find where I get my parts.

OTOH, if you use only one computer, you will have little use for it.  I
have 4 desktops scattered around that I use and a laptop for the
occasional portable use, so Xmarks is a valuable tool for me.

73,
Don W3FPR

ussv dharma wrote:
> Peoples:
> I know this is off topic but I need help....I switched to Mozilla and now a box called "xmarks" keeps popping up asking me to use it ,....what is it?
>
> Great Grandmaw Susan
> If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm  AFA9SM                         USSV DHARMA
>
>  
>  
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[Bill W4ZV]

Lu Romero - W4LT wrote

The winners used FT450's.  

Wrong.  The #1 and #2 teams both used FT-1000MPs.

http://wrtc2010.ru/result_table.php

NOBODY used FT-450s.

73,  Bill