Elecraft › [HAM]

WSPR

Classic

List

Threaded

Locked 32 messages Options

K5DNL

Re: Clock sync

Matt,

Thanks for the info , I will try that on
my EME setup.

73 Ken K5DNL
-----------------------------------------------------------------

--- On Wed, 6/1/11, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock sync
> To: "Jon K Hellan" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 10:01 AM
> I was using NetTime up until last
> year. Works fine, is free, etc.
>
> Another way to sync time works well if you use the K3EXREF
> and have a
> GPS-DO running. Using Lady Heather (check out the
> icon), you can run
> command line options at start up. One of the cmd line
> options is /ts,
> which sets the Windoze clock to be the same time as the GPS
> receiver
> (with some amount of software overhead, of course).
> This is good down
> to a few mS, at least as observed here. And you can
> set the program
> up to run at start-up time, plus sync periodically with the
> same cmd
> line option. I have mine set to sync hourly, which is
> probably good
> enough for us common folks...
>
> That second approach isn't for everyone, obviously, but it
> works
> reliably and performs consistently. OTOH, it's only
> good if you have
> the hardware in place so it's not great for portable or
> away-from-the-shack ops.
>
> The Win32 program, "Lady Heather's Disciplined Oscillator
> Control
> Program" can be found at www.ke5fx.com. This program
> is designed for
> the Trimble Thunderbolt GPS-DO, which is readily available
> in
> aftermarket and salvage over various web sites (eBay for
> example), and
> its price ranges from $40 to $150 per unit. Low
> bidders seem to be
> doing well - there are a lot of these retired E911 units
> out there.
>
> 73,
> matt W6NIA
>
> On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 15:59:14 +0200, you wrote:
>
> >On 06/01/2011 03:23 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think XP has this capability also and likely
> Vista as well but it's
> >>> been along time since I left XP for Win 7 and
> have not looked back.
> >>
> >> All 32/64 bit versions of Windows have the ability
> to sync to "Internet
> >> Time." However, they only sync once a week
> and do not retry in the
> >> event of failure or if the computer is off,
> sleeping or hibernating
> >> when it is time to sync. Changing the
> frequency of synchronization
> >> requires registry editing and is not recommended
> of users who do not
> >> understand the risks.
> >
> >I use Meinberg's Windows implementation of NTP:
> >http://www.meinberg.de/english/sw/ntp.htm. It runs on
> Windows XP through
> >7, as well as NT and 2000.
> >
> >NTP - Network Time Protocol - is an internet protocol
> for synchronizing
> >time. Almost all servers on the internet use it. It
> isn't at all hard to
> >set up. Windows 7 isn't optimal for time
> synchronization, and neither is
> >consumer internet, but you should be able to keep
> within 100 ms of
> >correct time. Linux or BSD over a well provisioned
> network easily does
> >better than 10 ms. Connect a GPS with Pulse per Second
> (PPS) output, and
> >you're in the low microseconds.
> >
> >73
> >Jon LA4RT
> >
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> ... Joe, W4TV
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/1/2011 9:06 AM, Bob Naumann wrote:
> >>> Windows 7 has the ability to sync itself using
> "Internet Time" so you don't
> >>> need any additional software to do this.
> >>>
> >>> I think XP has this capability also and likely
> Vista as well but it's been a
> >>> long time since I left XP for Win 7 and have
> not looked back.
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>>
> >>> Bob W5OV
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: [hidden email]
> >>> [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 8:02 AM
> >>> To: Rich - K1HTV
> >>> Cc: [hidden email]
> >>> Subject: [Elecraft] Clock sync
> >>>
> >>> Rich and all,
> >>>
> >>> D4 does not state that it runs on Win7 or
> Vista. You might try the
> >>> freeware Atomic Clock Sync from
> >>> http://www.worldtimeserver.com/atomic-clock/ as an
> alternative. Version
> >>> 3.0 runs on Win 2K, XP, Vista or Win7 (but not
> 64 bit). The older
> >>> version runs on earlier versions of Windows.
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>> Don W3FPR
> >>>
> >>> On 6/1/2011 8:43 AM, Rich - K1HTV wrote:
> >>>> Don,
> >>>> Do you run
> software to keep you PC clock in sync with UTC? If not, you
> >>> won't
> >>>> have much if any success making JT65A
> contacts. I use Dimension 4, and
> >>> have set
> >>>> it to sync my PC clock every 5 minutes. D4
> is a free download and works
> >>> well. Do
> >>>> you use JT65HF software or the original
> WSJT software by K1JT for JT65A?
> >>> I find
> >>>> the JT65HF software by W6CQZ to be much
> easier to use. Is your transmitter
> >>>> stable? Too much drift and you won't be
> copied.
> >>>>
> >>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>>
> >>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>>
> >>
> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >Elecraft mailing list
> >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Mike Markowski-2

Re: Clock sync

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

Don't forget NTP (Network Time Protocol), the widely used standard described in
an RFC. It has been ported to Windows and is free.

73,
Mike ab3ap

On 06/01/2011 11:01 AM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
> I was using NetTime up until last year. Works fine, is free, etc.
>[...]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Brown-10

Clock Sync and JT65A

On 6/1/2011 8:43 AM, Mike Markowski wrote:
> Don't forget NTP (Network Time Protocol), the widely used standard described in
> an RFC. It has been ported to Windows and is free.

For many years, I've used a clock setting program distributed by NIST
called nisttime. It can use NTP. Google to find it. Free download from
nist.gov It can be set to do a re-sync as often as you like. I don't
know how good it is at compensating for network delays, but it thinks
its setting the clock to an accuracy of tens of msec. To get that level
of accuracy you need to use it 2-3 times in succession.

All this talk about WSPR and JT65 motivated me to download, install, and
study the doc for both Joe Taylor's software and W6CQZ's HF version.
Made my first contacts last night on 10139 kHz with VK and ZL running
about 25W to the K3 and an 80M dipole. A JT65 contact is sorta like
watching paint dry, but I couldn't even hear the ZL that I worked, and
there was a lot of other activity within the passband that the software
worked around. I'm convinced that the W6CQZ version is the way to go
for HF work.

Next step is to figure out how to use JT65A during 6M openings. Is
there a calling frequency where everyone sets up shop on 6M in North
America? Which modulation scheme(s) are most used for E-skip?

73, Jim Brown K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Tony Estep

Re: Clock Sync and JT65A

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>wrote:

> ...Is there a calling frequency where everyone sets up shop on 6M...

For 6M you want WSJT9, which has within it various modes; the one called
ISCAT is, I think, the latest upgrade to JT6M. For meteor scatter, try
50.260; for regular JT6M, try 50.250. I am not by any means a 6M person but
this is what I've been told.

Tony KT0NY
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2

Re: Clock Sync and JT65A

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/1/2011 8:43 AM, Mike Markowski wrote:
>> Don't forget NTP (Network Time Protocol), the widely used standard described in
>> an RFC. It has been ported to Windows and is free.
>
> For many years, I've used a clock setting program distributed by NIST
> called nisttime. It can use NTP. Google to find it. Free download from
> nist.gov It can be set to do a re-sync as often as you like. I don't
> know how good it is at compensating for network delays, but it thinks
> its setting the clock to an accuracy of tens of msec. To get that level
> of accuracy you need to use it 2-3 times in succession.
>
> All this talk about WSPR and JT65 motivated me to download, install, and
> study the doc for both Joe Taylor's software and W6CQZ's HF version.
> Made my first contacts last night on 10139 kHz with VK and ZL running
> about 25W to the K3 and an 80M dipole. A JT65 contact is sorta like
> watching paint dry, but I couldn't even hear the ZL that I worked, and
> there was a lot of other activity within the passband that the software
> worked around. I'm convinced that the W6CQZ version is the way to go
> for HF work.
>
> Next step is to figure out how to use JT65A during 6M openings. Is
> there a calling frequency where everyone sets up shop on 6M in North
> America? Which modulation scheme(s) are most used for E-skip?

Some have been hanging out on 50276 JT65A during Es openings. I
haven't made a contact there yet, but I only got setup for 6m remote
operation a few days ago, and there hasn't really been an opening here
(left-coast) since.

Keep an eye on http://hamspots.net/wsjt/

73,

~iain / N6ML
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

K5DNL

Re: Clock Sync and JT65A

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Jim,

The last 6M opening ( 5/22/2011 )here i worked 8 stations on JT65a , fore on psk31,and tow east coast stations on a new mode ( Diana )and
also a few Meteor scatter with mode ISCAT.
I don't normally do much digi modes when 6M is open,
I guess I just got carried away.
The JT65A qso's were on 50.276
73 Ken K5DNL
-------------------------------------------------------------

--- On Wed, 6/1/11, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Clock Sync and JT65A
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 12:19 PM
> On 6/1/2011 8:43 AM, Mike Markowski
> wrote:
> > Don't forget NTP (Network Time Protocol), the widely
> used standard described in
> > an RFC. It has been ported to Windows and is
> free.
>
> For many years, I've used a clock setting program
> distributed by NIST
> called nisttime. It can use NTP. Google to find it.
> Free download from
> nist.gov It can be set to do a re-sync as often as
> you like. I don't
> know how good it is at compensating for network delays, but
> it thinks
> its setting the clock to an accuracy of tens of msec.
> To get that level
> of accuracy you need to use it 2-3 times in succession.
>
> All this talk about WSPR and JT65 motivated me to download,
> install, and
> study the doc for both Joe Taylor's software and W6CQZ's HF
> version.
> Made my first contacts last night on 10139 kHz with VK and
> ZL running
> about 25W to the K3 and an 80M dipole. A JT65 contact
> is sorta like
> watching paint dry, but I couldn't even hear the ZL that I
> worked, and
> there was a lot of other activity within the passband that
> the software
> worked around. I'm convinced that the W6CQZ version
> is the way to go
> for HF work.
>
> Next step is to figure out how to use JT65A during 6M
> openings. Is
> there a calling frequency where everyone sets up shop on 6M
> in North
> America? Which modulation scheme(s) are
> most used for E-skip?
>
> 73, Jim Brown K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Clock Sync and JT65A

Thanks to all for useful info and links. Also to K6TU, who privately
pointed me to this very useful link.

http://www.chris.org/cgi-bin/jt65talk

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Dave-3

Re: Clock sync

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Be careful of the xp version of "internet time", I have seen it sync up to
be 11 seconds off with comparison to UTC
This really messes up JT65C decodes and has cost QSOS

for this reason i use NMEAtime http://www.visualgps.net/NMEATIme/default.htm
which can be used to sync via the internet or from GPS NMEA data

Dave

WW2R

From: "Bob Naumann" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock sync
To: <[hidden email]>, "'Rich - K1HTV'" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <014001cc205c$beb08020$3c118060$@W5OV.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Windows 7 has the ability to sync itself using "Internet Time" so you don't
need any additional software to do this.

I think XP has this capability also and likely Vista as well but it's been a
long time since I left XP for Win 7 and have not looked back.

73,

Bob W5OV

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Tony Estep

Re: Clock sync

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Be careful of the xp version of "internet time"...

For XP, a very good answer is Dimension 4 (the solution recommended by
K1JT).

www.thinkman.com/dimension4
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

k1htv

Re: Clock Sync and JT65A

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Jim,
If you want to try JT65A on the Magic Band, the agreed upon calling frequency
is 50.276 MHz. Almost all 6M JT65 signals that I've seen have been using JT65A.
Congrats on taking the first step working this mode.

I have found that on the super weak signals (less -20dB), stronger signals in a
2.5KHz pass band can push already weak signals farther into the noise to the
point that they can not be copied. That's where the 3M's Hi-Cut and Lo-Cut
controls come in handy. If you view a very weak trace on the JT65HF waterfall in
the presence of loud (0 to -5 dB) signals, then tighten the filters you will see
the weaker trace improve (get thicker).

I only wish that the K3 filter (Hi, Low and BW) adjustment increment could be
reduced from the present 100Hz to 50Hz or even 25Hz. This would allow the
attenuation of QRM from very loud signals that are very near in frequency to
very weak ones without affecting the weak signal's data.

I hope that this suggestion could be considered in a future K3 firmware update.

Have fun with JT65 as you watch the paint dry :-).

73,
Rich - K1HTV

= = =

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Brown [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 13:20 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Clock Sync and JT65A

On 6/1/2011 8:43 AM, Mike Markowski wrote:
> Don't forget NTP (Network Time Protocol), the widely used standard
> described in an RFC. It has been ported to Windows and is free.

For many years, I've used a clock setting program distributed by NIST called
nisttime. It can use NTP. Google to find it. Free download from nist.gov It
can be set to do a re-sync as often as you like. I don't know how good it is at
compensating for network delays, but it thinks its setting the clock to an
accuracy of tens of msec. To get that level of accuracy you need to use it 2-3
times in succession.

All this talk about WSPR and JT65 motivated me to download, install, and study
the doc for both Joe Taylor's software and W6CQZ's HF version.
Made my first contacts last night on 10139 kHz with VK and ZL running about 25W
to the K3 and an 80M dipole. A JT65 contact is sorta like watching paint dry,
but I couldn't even hear the ZL that I worked, and there was a lot of other
activity within the passband that the software worked around. I'm convinced
that the W6CQZ version is the way to go for HF work.

Next step is to figure out how to use JT65A during 6M openings. Is there a
calling frequency where everyone sets up shop on 6M in North
America? Which modulation scheme(s) are most used for E-skip?

73, Jim Brown K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Dave Perry N4QS

Re: Clock sync

In reply to this post by Tony Estep

Yes, I have used Dimension 4 for years at home and also in my business on XP
machines. Works great.

Dave, N4QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Estep" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock sync

> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Be careful of the xp version of "internet time"...
>
>
> For XP, a very good answer is Dimension 4 (the solution recommended by
> K1JT).
>
> www.thinkman.com/dimension4
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

KD8NNU

Re: Clock Sync and JT65A

In reply to this post by k1htv

I use data a at 50 hz all the time

KD8NNU

Sent from my Palm Pre on the Now Network from Sprint
On Jun 2, 2011 2:06 PM, Rich - K1HTV <[hidden email]> wrote:

Jim,

If you want to try JT65A on the Magic Band, the agreed upon calling frequency

is 50.276 MHz. Almost all 6M JT65 signals that I've seen have been using JT65A.

Congrats on taking the first step working this mode.

I have found that on the super weak signals (less -20dB), stronger signals in a

2.5KHz pass band can push already weak signals farther into the noise to the

point that they can not be copied. That's where the 3M's Hi-Cut and Lo-Cut

controls come in handy. If you view a very weak trace on the JT65HF waterfall in

the presence of loud (0 to -5 dB) signals, then tighten the filters you will see

the weaker trace improve (get thicker).

I only wish that the K3 filter (Hi, Low and BW) adjustment increment could be

reduced from the present 100Hz to 50Hz or even 25Hz. This would allow the

attenuation of QRM from very loud signals that are very near in frequency to

very weak ones without affecting the weak signal's data.

I hope that this suggestion could be considered in a future K3 firmware update.

Have fun with JT65 as you watch the paint dry :-).

73,

Rich - K1HTV

= = =

-----Original Message-----

From: Jim Brown [mailto:[hidden email]]

Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 13:20 PM

To: [hidden email]

Subject: [Elecraft] Clock Sync and JT65A

On 6/1/2011 8:43 AM, Mike Markowski wrote:

> Don't forget NTP (Network Time Protocol), the widely used standard

> described in an RFC. It has been ported to Windows and is free.

For many years, I've used a clock setting program distributed by NIST called

nisttime. It can use NTP. Google to find it. Free download from nist.gov It

can be set to do a re-sync as often as you like. I don't know how good it is at

compensating for network delays, but it thinks its setting the clock to an

accuracy of tens of msec. To get that level of accuracy you need to use it 2-3

times in succession.

All this talk about WSPR and JT65 motivated me to download, install, and study

the doc for both Joe Taylor's software and W6CQZ's HF version.

Made my first contacts last night on 10139 kHz with VK and ZL running about 25W

to the K3 and an 80M dipole. A JT65 contact is sorta like watching paint dry,

but I couldn't even hear the ZL that I worked, and there was a lot of other

activity within the passband that the software worked around. I'm convinced

that the W6CQZ version is the way to go for HF work.

Next step is to figure out how to use JT65A during 6M openings. Is there a

calling frequency where everyone sets up shop on 6M in North

America? Which modulation scheme(s) are most used for E-skip?

73, Jim Brown K9YC

______________________________________________________________

Elecraft mailing list

Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm

Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net

Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html