WWV Clocks

[Craig Smith]

We have a total of 8 "automatic" WWV synched clocks of various types
distributed around the house.  When I got up this morning, 6 of them had
switched time properly.  The seventh one did its thing a couple hours later.
One still hasn't switched at all, but I'm giving it another day or two.
Curiously, one of the ones that did switch properly switched back to
standard time sometime during the day.  Go figure.  And I live 30 miles from
the WWV transmitter.

    ... Craig   AC0DS



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[David A. Belsley]

Craig, that is interesting because I had one of my radio clocks  
switch back later in the day too.  The other two stayed with DST.  
I'm now waiting to see if the first clock switches back.  I have a  
feeling the DST bit got lost, either in the sending or the  
receiving.  It happened here at roughly 20:00 EDT when the clock went  
back to 19:00 EDT.  Go figure, indeed.

best wishes,

dave belsley, w1euy



On Apr 2, 2006, at 8:39 PM, Craig D. Smith wrote:

> We have a total of 8 "automatic" WWV synched clocks of various types
> distributed around the house.  When I got up this morning, 6 of  
> them had
> switched time properly.  The seventh one did its thing a couple  
> hours later.
> One still hasn't switched at all, but I'm giving it another day or  
> two.
> Curiously, one of the ones that did switch properly switched back to
> standard time sometime during the day.  Go figure.  And I live 30  
> miles from
> the WWV transmitter.
>
>     ... Craig   AC0DS
>
>
>
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-------------------------------------
david a. belsley
professor of economics

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[Lee Bahr]

It happened to me today too with one of my two radio clocks.  the time went
back to it's original setting after correcting itself for Daylight Time
last night.
Lee

> Date: 04/02/2006 11:07:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV Clocks
>
> Craig, that is interesting because I had one of my radio clocks  
> switch back later in the day too.  The other two stayed with DST.  
> I'm now waiting to see if the first clock switches back.  I have a  
> feeling the DST bit got lost, either in the sending or the  
> receiving.  It happened here at roughly 20:00 EDT when the clock went  
> back to 19:00 EDT.  Go figure, indeed.
>
> best wishes,
>
> dave belsley, w1euy
>
>
>
> On Apr 2, 2006, at 8:39 PM, Craig D. Smith wrote:
>
> > We have a total of 8 "automatic" WWV synched clocks of various types
> > distributed around the house.  When I got up this morning, 6 of  
> > them had
> > switched time properly.  The seventh one did its thing a couple  
> > hours later.
> > One still hasn't switched at all, but I'm giving it another day or  
> > two.
> > Curiously, one of the ones that did switch properly switched back to
> > standard time sometime during the day.  Go figure.  And I live 30  
> > miles from
> > the WWV transmitter.
> >
> >     ... Craig   AC0DS
> >
> >

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[rrennard]

A few possibilities
a) you are so close to the transmitter that the clock is overloaded
b) the clock was not built with any reasonable DST algorithm
c) you live in Indiana where the DST rules just changed this year, and your clock is from Taiwan
d) the clock you have thinks it is in Liberia where there is no DST

N7WY

---- "Craig D. Smith" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We have a total of 8 "automatic" WWV synched clocks of various types
> distributed around the house.  When I got up this morning, 6 of them had
> switched time properly.  The seventh one did its thing a couple hours later.
> One still hasn't switched at all, but I'm giving it another day or two.
> Curiously, one of the ones that did switch properly switched back to
> standard time sometime during the day.  Go figure.  And I live 30 miles from
> the WWV transmitter.
>
>     ... Craig   AC0DS
>
>
>
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> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
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[John Magliacane]

Hi Craig.

> We have a total of 8 "automatic" WWV synched clocks of various types...
>....
> And I live 30 miles from the WWV transmitter.

Incidentially, it is _WWVB_ on 60 kHz, not WWV or WWVH on HF that is used by
these "radio controlled clocks" for periodic time checks, usually once a day
during the early morning hours (local time).

Despite your short distance to WWVB, you still might be experiencing poor
reception due to local interference sources.  Computer monitors, switching
power supplies, AC operated motors, and thunderstorms tend to generate a
lot of 60 kHz noise.

All three NIST stations transmit DST, leap year, UT1, and leap second
information bits.

With regard to DST flags transmitted by WWVB, NIST Publication 432 states:

"Daylight saving time (DST) and standard time (ST) information is
transmitted at seconds 57 and 58. When ST is in effect, bits 57 and 58
are set to 0. When DST is in effect, bits 57 and 58 are set to 1. On the
day of a change from ST to DST bit 57 changes from 0 to 1 at 0000 UTC,
and bit 58 changes from 0 to 1 exactly 24 hours later. On the day of a
change from DST back to ST bit 57 changes from 1 to 0 at 0000 UTC, and bit
58 changes from 1 to 0 exactly 24 hours later."

With this in mind, poor or inconsistant reception might explain some of the
effects you've recently seen.

I'm 1622 miles east of WWVB and own a WWVB-based frequency standard / UTC clock
of my own design.  Even at this distance, when proper receiving techniques are
used, reception of WWVB is generally excellent, day or night.


73, de John, KD2BD


Visit John on the Web at:

        http://kd2bd.ham.org/
.
.
.
.

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[Robert McGwier]

Twice a year,  I take my clocks out to the back porch and out of my
shack/office.  That is around the time of DST/ST switches.  The rest of
the year,  my "Atomic Clock" from LaCrosse is always in perfect sync to
the ability of my eye to detect.   I always do it after the switch
because I never remember to do it before the switch!.  In central NJ,  
FN20rg,  in eight years of owning this clock,  I have never once had
this procedure fail: back porch with full western exposure, one night,
the clock resets and from then until the next change over, it keeps
great time.

After acquisition,  it seems to do some kind of matched filtering for
"what it expects" to stay synchronized and gets better Eb/N0 performance
as a result.  I have repeated this every time I need to replace a
battery or change ST/DST.

Bob
N4HY


John Magliacane wrote:

> Hi Craig.
>
>  
>> We have a total of 8 "automatic" WWV synched clocks of various types...
>> ....
>> And I live 30 miles from the WWV transmitter.
>>    
>
> Incidentially, it is _WWVB_ on 60 kHz, not WWV or WWVH on HF that is used by
> these "radio controlled clocks" for periodic time checks, usually once a day
> during the early morning hours (local time).
>
> Despite your short distance to WWVB, you still might be experiencing poor
> reception due to local interference sources.  Computer monitors, switching
> power supplies, AC operated motors, and thunderstorms tend to generate a
> lot of 60 kHz noise.
>
>
> I'm 1622 miles east of WWVB and own a WWVB-based frequency standard / UTC clock
> of my own design.  Even at this distance, when proper receiving techniques are
> used, reception of WWVB is generally excellent, day or night.
>
>
> 73, de John, KD2BD
>
>  

--
AMSAT VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats,
NJQRP/AMQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR Wrk Grp Chairman
Laziness is the number one inspiration for ingenuity.  Guilty as charged!

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[Bob Nielsen]

On Apr 4, 2006, at 7:43 AM, John Magliacane wrote:

>
> Despite your short distance to WWVB, you still might be  
> experiencing poor
> reception due to local interference sources.  Computer monitors,  
> switching
> power supplies, AC operated motors, and thunderstorms tend to  
> generate a
> lot of 60 kHz noise.

It's also a good idea to position the clock on a non-metallic surface.

The "no-name-brand" clock in my shack works perfectly, but at 0700Z  
each day it beeps loudly as it goes through the reset procedure with  
WWVB.  No problem there, but I wouldn't want it in my bedroom.

73, Bob N7XY
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[John Magliacane]

Hi Bob.

> After acquisition,  it seems to do some kind of matched filtering for
> "what it expects" to stay synchronized and gets better Eb/N0 performance
> as a result.

You are correct.  NIST encourages radio controlled clock manufacturers to
employ bit and frame averaging techniques to improve decoding accuracy.  The
frame averaging and the "sanity checks" that take place in firmware take
several minutes _under good reception conditions_ to complete.

WWVB reception quality normally improves at night due to better D layer signal
propagation (and naturally lower noise levels).

While every amateur text I've come across states that the D and E layers
disappear at night, they, in fact, do not.  They rise to higher altitudes and
remain ionized through background cosmic radiation.  It is this lightly ionized
D-layer that makes LF reception possible beyond the normal range of surface
wave propagation at night.

Oddly enough, I have my K2/100 building experience to thank for discovering
this.


73, de John, KD2BD


Visit John on the Web at:

        http://kd2bd.ham.org/
.
.
.
.

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[Mark Bayern-2]

My old Heathkit clock received WWV on 5Mhz, 10Mhz and 15Mhz. You could
turn up the audio and listen if you wanted.

> Incidentially, it is _WWVB_ on 60 kHz, not WWV or WWVH on HF that is used by
> these "radio controlled clocks" for periodic time checks, usually once a day
> during the early morning hours (local time).
>
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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy-2]

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Magliacane" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 7:00 PM

> While every amateur text I've come across states that the D and E layers
> disappear at night, they, in fact, do not.  They rise to higher altitudes
> and
> remain ionized through background cosmic radiation.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So I believe, and the elevated E layer during the night could also be
responsible for some of the single hop transcontinental openings on 6m -
unfortunately IMHO also called Auroral Es openings since they can occur
occasionally when the Aurora is 'quiet'. I have noticed similar openings on
40m at this QTH.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD



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