Wattage Draw - K3S/100 vs KPA500/KAT500 - for UPS
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On 8/31/2017 11:35 AM, Tox wrote:
> I had a couple racks of APC > SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended holdup to > a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF noisy those > units are, though. All of the APC units for which I've seen spec sheets are FCC Part 15 Class A (the industrial spec, ILLEGAL to sell for residential use, roughly 20 dB worse than Class B). 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I have an APC SmartUPS 700, which I bought many years ago from
http://www.refurbups.com/. The manual says it's certified as Class B. 73, Jim N7US -----Original Message----- On 8/31/2017 11:35 AM, Tox wrote: > I had a couple racks of APC > SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended > holdup to a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF > noisy those units are, though. All of the APC units for which I've seen spec sheets are FCC Part 15 Class A (the industrial spec, ILLEGAL to sell for residential use, roughly 20 dB worse than Class B). 73, Jim K9YC [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I forgot to add that the manual says it produces a sine wave.
73, Jim N7US -----Original Message----- I have an APC SmartUPS 700, which I bought many years ago from http://www.refurbups.com/. The manual says it's certified as Class B. 73, Jim N7US -----Original Message----- On 8/31/2017 11:35 AM, Tox wrote: > I had a couple racks of APC > SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended > holdup to a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF > noisy those units are, though. All of the APC units for which I've seen spec sheets are FCC Part 15 Class A (the industrial spec, ILLEGAL to sell for residential use, roughly 20 dB worse than Class B). 73, Jim K9YC [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Hmmm. I had a Cyber Power 1500VA unit for a while on my station, but one
day I transmitted on 12 meters and something inside the thing made a "pop". This was followed by a loud "crack" and the UPS expired then and there. I should note I have an extremely difficult RF environment on my tiny urban lot (a second floor shack with a SteppIR 3L about 15 feet directly over the operating chair). This might have been a one-off thing, but if you're going to use one of the Cyber Power devices, check it at LOW RF levels on all bands for EMI problems. 73... Randy, W8FN On 8/31/2017 4:53 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > Perhaps by accident, I found Cyber Power branded UPS units that 1) > claim an 8 hour charging rate and 2) FCC Part 15 Class B compliance > for their pseudo-sinewave units. I have two of them in my shack with a > 160M vertical only 25 ft away, and with good chokes on their wiring, > can't hear any noise when they're in standby mode. Haven't checked for > noise when they're inverting. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by N7US
And my old, but still functioning with a new battery, APC Back-UPS Office,
500VA/325W UPS is also certified Class B. It has a "stepped approximation to a sine wave." 73, Jim N7US -----Original Message----- I forgot to add that the manual says it produces a sine wave. 73, Jim N7US -----Original Message----- I have an APC SmartUPS 700, which I bought many years ago from http://www.refurbups.com/. The manual says it's certified as Class B. 73, Jim N7US -----Original Message----- On 8/31/2017 11:35 AM, Tox wrote: > I had a couple racks of APC > SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended > holdup to a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF > noisy those units are, though. All of the APC units for which I've seen spec sheets are FCC Part 15 Class A (the industrial spec, ILLEGAL to sell for residential use, roughly 20 dB worse than Class B). 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: UPS Can Be a Noise Source
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
It's not a bad design goal if you can plan on only 1 or 2 outages per
year, if that. Probably not too bad if the generator kicks in and you only abuse the batteries for a few minutes. My observation was that the big APC units charged at about half the discharge rate, so yeah, charging too fast, but the discharge did more harm than charging. I was a 16 year old kid working his first real job in an auto parts store just after cars switched from 6v to 12v. We could order 8 volt lead-acid batteries, and I always thought that 6+8 was 14..... 73 - Lynn On 8/31/2017 2:53 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > Second, a local computer guru, AE6KS, has observed that most UPS mfrs > charge batteries at too fast a rate for good battery life. The objective > is to have the unit ready to do it all again if power drops, then > returns, then drops again. This intentional design goal kills batteries > pretty quickly. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2
On 8/31/2017 10:46 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
> What I did as part of my ISP was to remove the batteries from my UPSes > and replace 7 or 12Ah batteries with 100Ah batteries outside the case. > > That didn't get me to the 10 hours for maximum battery life, but it got > me to 8 hours..... > > Jim's suggestion also lets you size the battery to run all the gear for > more than a few minutes. I have 2 APC UPS devices - I moved one's 7 AH battery to an external container where I have three of them in parallel. That UPS runs the cable modem, router, and cordless phone system. The other one runs my desktop computer and accessories. Because of the type of battery in the machine, I would have to do serious soldering to attach external wires, which would void the warranty. My standby power mentor/guru explained to me quite a few years ago that given a large enough battery source, the limiting factor in most consumer-grade UPS is the heating of the electronics. Both of those UPSes are running at about 15% of "advertised capacity" which, according to APC's runtime curve, extends the run time by a factor of 10. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by N7US
On 8/31/2017 3:26 PM, Jim McDonald wrote:
> I have an APC SmartUPS 700, which I bought many years ago from > http://www.refurbups.com/. The manual says it's certified as Class B. Thanks Jim. I looked at a half-dozen APC UPS units advertised on that site about 2 weeks ago, and studied their specs on the APC website. All were Class A. Things change, of course, and I only checked those few units. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
On 31/08/17 22:56, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 8/31/2017 11:35 AM, Tox wrote: >> I had a couple racks of APC >> SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended >> holdup to >> a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF noisy those >> units are, though. > > All of the APC units for which I've seen spec sheets are FCC Part 15 > Class A (the industrial spec, ILLEGAL to sell for residential use, > roughly 20 dB worse than Class B). I had a SmartUPS 750, and it was very bad. Put out crud all the way from VLF to VHF. I threw it away in the end. In the shack I use a much older APC Back-UPS 500 for the computer, which doesn't seem to cause any problems. I've had to replace the battery every 3-4 years, but that's to be expected. 73, Richard G4DYA ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
On 8/31/2017 2:56 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> All of the APC units for which I've seen spec sheets are FCC Part 15> Class A (the industrial spec, ILLEGAL to sell for residential use,> roughly 20 dB worse than Class B). The spec sheets for both of my APC UPS devices (BE550R and BX1500G) specify FCC Part 15 Class B. > Second, a local computer guru, AE6KS, has observed that most UPS mfrs charge batteries at too fast a rate for good battery life. Both spec sheets show a recharge time of 16 hours. Is that "too fast"? 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: UPS Can Be a Noise Source
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Keep in mind that by code, a device plugged into a 15 amp circuit must
not draw more than 12 amps continuous. When you get into the larger UPSes, they might want to charge really fast, but charging at a high rate and carrying the rated load will exceed 12 amps. So depending on the rating of the unit, and the recommended input circuit, some models will definitely charge slow. 16 hours is not too fast for charging. If the UPS can't carry the load for ten hours, then the discharge rate is WAY TOO FAST. Most UPSes are designed to carry the load for about 15 minutes, so if you aren't killing the battery charging, you're killing it discharging. 73 -- Lynn On 9/1/2017 10:32 AM, Phil Kane wrote: >> Second, a local computer guru, AE6KS, has observed that most UPS mfrs charge batteries at too fast a rate for good battery life. > Both spec sheets show a recharge time of 16 hours. Is that "too fast"? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2
No, that's just about ideal for battery life.
73, Jim On 9/1/2017 10:32 AM, Phil Kane wrote: >> Second, a local computer guru, AE6KS, has observed that most UPS mfrs charge batteries at too fast a rate for good battery life. > Both spec sheets show a recharge time of 16 hours. Is that "too fast"? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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