What's with the new amplifier?

[recarter]

I'm almost finshed building my basic K2 kit and I'm looking at the purchase of the power amplifier kit.  I keep hearing rumors of a new amplifier/tuner kit.  I would be disappointed if just after purchasing the amp, elecraft came out with a better amplifier.  Does anyone know what the scoop really is?
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[zeke7237]

The KPA is integrated, the new amps are outboard. My understanding is
that you'll need the KPA in any case to drive the new amps to full
output. It's not really a question of "better", they serve different
purposes ..

de john/w1rt

On 2/14/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm almost finshed building my basic K2 kit and I'm looking at the purchase of the power amplifier kit.  I keep hearing rumors of a new amplifier/tuner kit.  I would be disappointed if just after purchasing the amp, elecraft came out with a better amplifier.  Does anyone know what the scoop really is?
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[Vic K2VCO]

[hidden email] wrote:
> I'm almost finshed building my basic K2 kit and I'm looking at the
> purchase of the power amplifier kit.  I keep hearing rumors of a new
> amplifier/tuner kit.  I would be disappointed if just after
> purchasing the amp, elecraft came out with a better amplifier.  Does
> anyone know what the scoop really is?

I know a few facts about it which I will relate, since Elecraft isn't
(aren't) talking.  None of this is official, since I don't work for
Elecraft and things may have changed since I saw the prototype last
April.  If so, they'll correct me!  One thing I do *not* know is when it
will be ready, although I'm convinced that it will be produced.

The initial version of the amplifier, the KPA800 will be rated at 800
watts SSB and capable of 1000 watts CW (the SSB limitation ia due to
IMD).  At some point in the future there will be a KPA1500 capable of
full legal power.  The KPA800 has a built-in power supply; the KPA1500
will have an external box.  The prototype used 60-volt FET devices made
by Advanced Power Technology.

The KPA800 prototype weighed about 36 lbs (16.3 kg).  The amplifiers are
designed to be driven by a "100-watt class" transceiver such as (but not
only) the K2/100.  The amplifiers can accept band data from a K2, or
from Kenwood, Icom, or Yaesu radios, as well as detecting frequency
directly from the RF input.  There is a built-in antenna tuner.  The
prototype covered 160-6 meters; at the time, Elecraft had not decided
whether the final version would cover 6 -- if they can do it and meet
specs then it will.

The price that was discussed at the time was somewhere between
$2500-$3000 for the KPA800.  The KPA1500 of course will be somewhat
more.  Although this seems like a lot, keep in mind that it's a fully
automatic amplifier, including power supply and automatic antenna tuner.
  Consider that the competition for the KPA1500 is the likes of the
Alpha 87A ($7K and no built-in antenna tuner).
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Jeff Stai]

At 08:05 AM 2/14/2006, Vic K2VCO wrote:
>The price that was discussed at the time was somewhere between $2500-$3000 for the KPA800.  The KPA1500 of course will be somewhat more.  Although this seems like a lot, keep in mind that it's a fully automatic amplifier, including power supply and automatic antenna tuner.  Consider that the competition for the KPA1500 is the likes of the Alpha 87A ($7K and no built-in antenna tuner).

An additional point is that the KPA800/1500 are "SO2R-capable" right
out of the box - It has two sets of inputs (RF, PTT, band), and (at
least) two RF outputs, so you can run an SO2R station with only one
amp. At least, the prototype I saw had this capability.

- jeff wk6i

ps: I think the Alpha does have an antenna tuner...?


--
Jeff Stai               [hidden email]
Twisted Oak Winery      http://www.twistedoak.com/


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[Augie "Gus" Hansen]

On 2/14/06 11:46 AM, "Jeff Stai" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ps: I think the Alpha does have an antenna tuner...?

Hi Jeff,

The 87A doesn't have a built-in antenna tuner. The output network can
comfortably match about a 2.5:1 VSWR range as I recall from the one I had
back in the early 1990s, but I had to use an external tuner to use the Alpha
with my wire antennas.

Gus Hansen, KB0YH

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[Nigel A. Gunn G8IFF/KC8NHF]

What's SO2R?
Don't think we have that here.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Nigel A. Gunn. 59 Beadlemead, Milton Keynes, MK6 4HF, England.
Tel [phone]       mobile [phone]
e-mail [hidden email]             www  http://www.ngunn.net 
Amateur radio stations  G8IFF, KC8NHF
Member of  AMSAT-UK #182, ARRL, GQRP Club, QRPARCI, SOC #548,  RAYNET
           Flying Pig #385, Dayton ARA #2128, AMSAT-NA  LM-1691,  MKARS
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

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[Vic K2VCO]

Jeff Stai wrote:

> ps: I think the Alpha does have an antenna tuner...?

No, it has an automatically tuned pi-l network in the output which can
handle load SWR up to 1.5:1 without any special tricks, or which can be
manually programmed for antennas with SWR up to 2:1.  But it's basically
the same type of output network found in most tube amplifiers, which has
a certain amount of flexibility.  I expect that Elecraft's tuner will
handle a wider range of impedances (although I can't say for sure).

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[N2TK]

Yes, the 87A has an auto tuner. I forget the two buttons to push that has
one of the LED's continuously flash to indicate it is in auto-tune mode.
When in this mode it continuously tunes for low swr. This is nice when
changing multiple antennas on the same band. I will remember what buttons to
push when I get out of the snowy northeast next week and operate the 87A
from WP2Z.

By the way I plan on taking down my K2. Was given a real nice metal case
with foam liner. It should work great for carrying on the K2.

N2TK, Tony

 -----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]  On Behalf Of Augie (Gus) Hansen
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 2:03 PM
To: Jeff Stai; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] What's with the new amplifier?

On 2/14/06 11:46 AM, "Jeff Stai" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ps: I think the Alpha does have an antenna tuner...?

Hi Jeff,

The 87A doesn't have a built-in antenna tuner. The output network can
comfortably match about a 2.5:1 VSWR range as I recall from the one I had
back in the early 1990s, but I had to use an external tuner to use the Alpha
with my wire antennas.

Gus Hansen, KB0YH

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[Vic K2VCO]

N2TK, Tony wrote:
> Yes, the 87A has an auto tuner.

 From page 7 of the manual:

"On any frequency where your antenna VSWR exceeds 1.5:1, it’s important
to manually program the ALPHA 87A for a proper match. See manual
sections 7.2-7.4. Efficiency, linearity, and output often can be
improved even when VSWR is less than 1.5:1. The 87A does not contain an
antenna tuner. The SWR will need to be tuned via the antenna or an
external tuner connected to the output of the Alpha 87A."

<http://www.alpharadioproducts.com/87A_manu.pdf>

Yes, there is a mode that you can use to adjust the 87A for an antenna
that isn't perfectly matched, just like you can with any manually tuned
tube amplifier.  No it does *not* have a built-in tuner!
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[N2TK]

Hi Vic,
Poor choice3 of words on my part. I guess a better choice of words would be
that the 87A automatically adjusts for minimum swr for changes in swr within
a certain range. I know it works over the swr range on 40m from band edge to
band edge using a 402cd.
I don't manually program the 87a. I leave the amp find the best tuning. This
way it is one less thing I need to worry about during a contest. Don't know
if this is the best way, but it seems to work fine. Maybe this is called the
lazy man's setup?

I use an Acom 2000A at home. The amp is in the basement. The remote control
head is in the shack. Very quiet this way - hi.

Looking forward to the Elecraft 1500W amp. My wish list is:
- 6-160M
- select a mode for continuous auto-tune like the 87a
- remote control head so I don't need the amp in the shack
- QSK switch-over times comparable to Acom and Alpha.
- Lots of metering info like the 2000a.

73,
N2TK, Tony


 -----Original Message-----
From: Vic K2VCO [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:32 PM
To: N2TK, Tony
Cc: 'Augie (Gus) Hansen'; 'Jeff Stai'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] What's with the new amplifier?

N2TK, Tony wrote:
> Yes, the 87A has an auto tuner.

 From page 7 of the manual:

"On any frequency where your antenna VSWR exceeds 1.5:1, it's important
to manually program the ALPHA 87A for a proper match. See manual
sections 7.2-7.4. Efficiency, linearity, and output often can be
improved even when VSWR is less than 1.5:1. The 87A does not contain an
antenna tuner. The SWR will need to be tuned via the antenna or an
external tuner connected to the output of the Alpha 87A."

<http://www.alpharadioproducts.com/87A_manu.pdf>

Yes, there is a mode that you can use to adjust the 87A for an antenna
that isn't perfectly matched, just like you can with any manually tuned
tube amplifier.  No it does *not* have a built-in tuner!
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco


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[Rich McCabe]

Thanks Vic. Thats all good and very interesting info.

I may wait out the legal limit amp to see what the $$$ comes in at but I can
say for certain I wont be spending over $2,500 for a 800 watt amp. I would
rather have power over convenience. I have a stack of tuners here that will
do the job just fine. No bashing intended because my Elecraft KAT100 will
out tune everything I have in the shack and a amp tuner combo sounds nice :)

Now if elecraft comes up with a full size (K3) radio for the shack with lots
of knobs and features for big $$ I might be writing a check because I really
enjoyed the two K2/100s I have built

73,

Rich
kd0zv

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vic K2VCO" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] What's with the new amplifier?

> [hidden email] wrote:
>> I'm almost finshed building my basic K2 kit and I'm looking at the
>> purchase of the power amplifier kit.  I keep hearing rumors of a new
>> amplifier/tuner kit.  I would be disappointed if just after
>> purchasing the amp, elecraft came out with a better amplifier.  Does
>> anyone know what the scoop really is?
>
> I know a few facts about it which I will relate, since Elecraft isn't
> (aren't) talking.  None of this is official, since I don't work for
> Elecraft and things may have changed since I saw the prototype last April.
> If so, they'll correct me!  One thing I do *not* know is when it will be
> ready, although I'm convinced that it will be produced.
>
> The initial version of the amplifier, the KPA800 will be rated at 800
> watts SSB and capable of 1000 watts CW (the SSB limitation ia due to IMD).
> At some point in the future there will be a KPA1500 capable of full legal
> power.  The KPA800 has a built-in power supply; the KPA1500 will have an
> external box.  The prototype used 60-volt FET devices made by Advanced
> Power Technology.
>
> The KPA800 prototype weighed about 36 lbs (16.3 kg).  The amplifiers are
> designed to be driven by a "100-watt class" transceiver such as (but not
> only) the K2/100.  The amplifiers can accept band data from a K2, or from
> Kenwood, Icom, or Yaesu radios, as well as detecting frequency directly
> from the RF input.  There is a built-in antenna tuner.  The prototype
> covered 160-6 meters; at the time, Elecraft had not decided whether the
> final version would cover 6 -- if they can do it and meet specs then it
> will.
>
> The price that was discussed at the time was somewhere between $2500-$3000
> for the KPA800.  The KPA1500 of course will be somewhat more.  Although
> this seems like a lot, keep in mind that it's a fully automatic amplifier,
> including power supply and automatic antenna tuner. Consider that the
> competition for the KPA1500 is the likes of the Alpha 87A ($7K and no
> built-in antenna tuner).
> --
> 73,
> Vic, K2VCO
> Fresno CA
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

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