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Which Audio Filter Kit?

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Jim Harris-4

Which Audio Filter Kit?

Good Evening Everyone:

Hopefully, I'm about two and a half weeks from
ordering a K2 with about four accessory kits. My
question today is how much difference is there in
performance between the KDSP2 and the KAF2? Is the
KDSP2 worth the extra $140? I'm been using an
IC-746pro for about a year and a half so I am familiar
with the use of a DSP.

Comments and thoughts would be appreciated.

Jim, AB0UK

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Don Ehrlich-2

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

I have had my K2/100 with KDSP2 for 4 months now and almost never use the
DSP. The stock filters in the K2 seem to work just as good, and often
better, than the DSP filters but that is very much a matter of taste I
think. I operate only cw and my comments apply only to cw mode.

I like the DSP 'de-noiser' but I live in a pretty quiet environment and
rarely think to use it. In a noisier environment it might be worth the cost
of the DSP2 all by itself.

As you can see this is a very incomplete response to your question. The
answer depends a lot on your preferred modes and environment and I will be
watching to see what others say. The bottom line for me, though, is that
both the DSP or KAF2 are minor enhancements to an excellent receiver.

Don K7FJ

> Hopefully, I'm about two and a half weeks from
> ordering a K2 with about four accessory kits. My
> question today is how much difference is there in
> performance between the KDSP2 and the KAF2? Is the
> KDSP2 worth the extra $140? I'm been using an
> IC-746pro for about a year and a half so I am familiar
> with the use of a DSP.
>
> Comments and thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> Jim, AB0UK

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Vic K2VCO

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

Don wrote:

> I have had my K2/100 with KDSP2 for 4 months now and almost never use the
> DSP. The stock filters in the K2 seem to work just as good, and often
> better, than the DSP filters but that is very much a matter of taste I think.
> I operate only cw and my comments apply only to cw mode.

I agree completely. I thought I would use the narrow DSP filter, but it really
doesn't seem to increase the copiability of a CW signal over the basic crystal
filters.

> I like the DSP 'de-noiser' but I live in a pretty quiet environment and
> rarely think to use it. In a noisier environment it might be worth the cost
> of the DSP2 all by itself.

I live in a relatively noisy location, and I have the denoiser on 100% of the
time. I love it! Again, I only operate CW so I don't know if it's useful on SSB.

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco

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zeke7237

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

In reply to this post by Jim Harris-4

I have to disagree with the other guys .. I like the DSP in some
circumstances, it seems to be able to dig weak CW out of the noise on
occasions where I can't hear it at all with the normal filter (and
just barely with no filter). Where it really shines in on the digital
modes .. I user the RTTY mode filters FL2/3 on RTTY and FL4 on
PSK/Hell with great success.

YMMV
de John/W1RT

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 15:57:01 -0800 (PST), Jim Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Good Evening Everyone:
>
> Hopefully, I'm about two and a half weeks from
> ordering a K2 with about four accessory kits. My
> question today is how much difference is there in
> performance between the KDSP2 and the KAF2? Is the
> KDSP2 worth the extra $140? I'm been using an
> IC-746pro for about a year and a half so I am familiar
> with the use of a DSP.
>
> Comments and thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> Jim, AB0UK
>
> __________________________________
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lonnie.m.juli

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

In reply to this post by Jim Harris-4

The following is only my opinion...

I had the KAF2 and then built the KDSP2. The denoiser is ok, but I found that the DSP filters made the rig hard to listen to. This is more pronounced on SSB. The auto-notch was helpful, but it didn't make up for the irritating quality of the DSP filters. I tried all sorts of settings and just never thought it sounded right. I re-installed the KAF2 and I'm happier now. It's not perfect, but it doesn't distract from the QSO.

If it makes any difference, I have had (and still have one) rigs with DSP from other manufacturers. I haven't been thrilled by any of them. My favorite filter is still an old Datong FL-3!

So that's my take on it. I know lots of folks are happy with DSP. I just think it makes everything sound like a cheap cell phone.

73,

Lonnie
NY2LJ

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David M. Katinsky

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

I have yet to find settings where I can use the DSP NR on SSB; it sounds
like I'm listening through a pillow. Works great, otherwise!

73,

David
N2RDT

--

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scoring and not play defense... On defense you have to be thinking."
---Chris Chelios

David M. Katinsky
[hidden email]

> From: <[hidden email]>
> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:24:28 -0500
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Which Audio Filter Kit?
>
> The following is only my opinion...
>
> I had the KAF2 and then built the KDSP2. The denoiser is ok, but I found that
> the DSP filters made the rig hard to listen to. This is more pronounced on
> SSB. The auto-notch was helpful, but it didn't make up for the irritating
> quality of the DSP filters. I tried all sorts of settings and just never
> thought it sounded right. I re-installed the KAF2 and I'm happier now. It's
> not perfect, but it doesn't distract from the QSO.
>
> If it makes any difference, I have had (and still have one) rigs with DSP from
> other manufacturers. I haven't been thrilled by any of them. My favorite
> filter is still an old Datong FL-3!
>
> So that's my take on it. I know lots of folks are happy with DSP. I just think
> it makes everything sound like a cheap cell phone.
>
> 73,
>
> Lonnie
> NY2LJ
>
> _______________________________________________
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Rolf Moberg, OH6KXL

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

In reply to this post by lonnie.m.juli

[hidden email] wrote:

> I had the KAF2 and then built the KDSP2. The denoiser is ok, but I found that the DSP filters made
> the rig hard to listen to. This is more pronounced on SSB. The
auto-notch was helpful,

How about switching KDSP2 DSP-filters off? Use DSP filters only when
conditions are requiring it. Is it possible?

Rolf
oh6kxl

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lonnie.m.juli

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

In reply to this post by Jim Harris-4

I didn't think it was worth the trouble. I like having the KAF2 filters and they're tight enough so that I can get around most hetrodynes. If conditions were marginal, the de-noiser often made things worse, not better.

If you think about it: Sometimes you can copy weak signals best with the filters in the radio wide open and the filter between your ears doing all the work. I tried to like the DSP. I'm just more pleased with the KAF2.

73,

Lonnie
NY2LJ

>>How about switching KDSP2 DSP-filters off? Use DSP filters only >>when conditions are requiring it. Is it possible?

>>Rolf
>>oh6kxl

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zeke7237

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

In reply to this post by lonnie.m.juli

For what it's worth, I never use it on fone .. but then I don't use
fone all that often :)

de John/W1RT

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:24:28 -0500, [hidden email]
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> The following is only my opinion...
>
> I had the KAF2 and then built the KDSP2. The denoiser is ok, but I found that the DSP filters made the rig hard to listen to. This is more pronounced on SSB. The auto-notch was helpful, but it didn't make up for the irritating quality of the DSP filters. I tried all sorts of settings and just never thought it sounded right. I re-installed the KAF2 and I'm happier now. It's not perfect, but it doesn't distract from the QSO.
>
> If it makes any difference, I have had (and still have one) rigs with DSP from other manufacturers. I haven't been thrilled by any of them. My favorite filter is still an old Datong FL-3!
>
> So that's my take on it. I know lots of folks are happy with DSP. I just think it makes everything sound like a cheap cell phone.
>
> 73,
>
> Lonnie
> NY2LJ
>
> _______________________________________________
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N6JW

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

In reply to this post by Jim Harris-4

Hi Lonnie and Rolf:

I'm not sure the question was really answered. I trust you both
realize that the DSP as a whole, as well as individual features
such as filters, noise reduction, and auto notch filter can be switched
on and off from the front panel. So the answer to your question,
Rolf is: Yes, it is possible.

Hope that helps,
73
John, N6JW
____________________________

Rolf, oh6kxl, asked:

>>How about switching KDSP2 DSP-filters off? Use DSP filters only >>when
>>conditions are requiring it. Is it possible?

Lonnie, NY2LJ answered:

>I didn't think it was worth the trouble. I like having the KAF2 filters and
>they're tight enough so that I can get around most hetrodynes. If
conditions
>were marginal, the de-noiser often made things worse, not better.

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dmb@lightstream.net

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

In reply to this post by Jim Harris-4

Hello Jim,

I've owned my 746PRO for about 3 years, and my K2/100 S/N 3039 w/ all
options for a little over 2 years, so I feel qualified to render an
opinion here. I'll start by saying that although the 746PRO is a nice
rig, it's no match for the K2 for CW, which is my primary mode of
operation. For that reason, the K2 has been my primary rig ever since I
built it, and I pretty much keep the 746PRO around for use as a
reference for frequency accuracy, and as a monitor when testing things,
such as mod's to the KSB2, or more recently, to monitor the output of
the XV144 transverter.

As for the K2, I had always been a fan of the KAF2, but, IMHO the
versatility of the KDSP2 makes it a much more useful option. The NR
performance of the KDSP2 is better than that of the 746PRO, plus it is
more configurable. The DSP bandpass filtering of the KDSP2 is very good
as well, and I use it at times, but my primary usage of the KDSP2 is for
noise reduction, at which it excels. Although the high 'Q' of the KAF2's
filter provides a very nice peaking effect, the KDSP2 filter, when
adjusted for a 50Hz bandwidth, sounds very similar. Plus, you have the
option of selecting a 'softer' filtering algorithm, which I particularly
like with the narrower bandwidth settings.

So, in my opinion, the KDSP2 offers far more performance and
versatility, and is worth the extra money.

73, Dale WA8SRA

Jim Harris wrote:

>... My question today is how much difference is there in
>performance between the KDSP2 and the KAF2? Is the
>KDSP2 worth the extra $140? I'm been using an
>IC-746pro for about a year and a half so I am familiar
>with the use of a DSP.
>
>

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 00:36:49 -0500, Dale Boresz wrote:

>So, in my opinion, the KDSP2 offers far more performance and
>versatility, and is worth the extra money.

I have the same experience as Dale, and the same rigs. My 746 (not a
pro) is loaded with Inrad filters for CW and SSB. My K2/100 has the
DSP module, and although I'm primarily a CW op, I used it on SSB in
a couple of contests to see what it would do. My 746 is used almost
exclusively on 6 and 2 meters (with outboard preamps), both CW and
SSB.

I LOVE the DSP in both radios. I use it both in narrowband audio
filter mode and as noise reduction, and I am very happy with both. I
have not used a K2 with a KAF2.

Jim Brown K9YC

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Bill Coleman-2

Re: Which Audio Filter Kit?

In reply to this post by Jim Harris-4

On Feb 6, 2005, at 6:57 PM, Jim Harris wrote:

> Hopefully, I'm about two and a half weeks from
> ordering a K2 with about four accessory kits. My
> question today is how much difference is there in
> performance between the KDSP2 and the KAF2? Is the
> KDSP2 worth the extra $140? I'm been using an
> IC-746pro for about a year and a half so I am familiar
> with the use of a DSP.

I've had both in my K2. Here are my impressions.

I wasn't thrilled with the KAF2. The CW filters in the K2 are sharp
enough that I never needed to "supplement" it with an audio filter. I
also found that the narrow audio filter sounded a little bit too
"ringy" for my tastes.

I did, however, make use of the real-time clock in the KAF2 on
occassion. Setting it was a pain, though. I also appreciated how much
high-pitched audio hiss the standard low-pass filter of the KAF2
removed. It was worth the price just for this feature.

THe KDSP2, on the other hand, has been a boon for me. For SSB, it is
indispensable. I run the auto-notch all the time in SSB. I use the
filtering to help clean up the shape of the crystal filter. It also
helps to have a couple of narrower positions handy on SSB.

On SSB and CW, I haven't found the NR filter to be terribly useful,
although it sometimes helps. Biggest problem is that it makes it sound
like you are listening to the band through a long narrow tube.

I'd buy the KDSP2 again. The KAF2 would be OK if you are running
battery or solar powered and are concerned with power consumption.

Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email]
Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
-- Wilbur Wright, 1901

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