Why Not Remove the Birdies Through a Firmware Update

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Why Not Remove the Birdies Through a Firmware Update

-.-.  --.-N3TU -.-.  --.-
Wouldn't that be easier. Take a pole of all the birdies and take it out with firmware.
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Re: Why Not Remove the Birdies Through a Firmware Update

Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
>From what I understand, the method used to "remove" birdies in the K3
although clever does not actually remove them, but moves them out of
hearing.

Before moving all of the Rx birdies using firmware, IMHO it would be wise to
take a *comprehensive* look at the transmitter spurs as well, because in a
TRANSCEIVER if there are Rx birdie problems present chances are that there
could be some Tx spurs which need to be addressed. Unfortunately and
obviously Tx spurs cannot simply be moved in frequency using firmware, but
if a problem must be reduced in amplitude. Often one result of such work on
a transceiver's Tx spurs is to reduce / eliminate some Rx birdies as well.

73,

Geoff
GM4ESD


"-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-" wrote on Sunday, April 25, 2010 at 8:31 AM:

> Wouldn't that be easier. Take a pole of all the birdies and take it out
> with
> firmware.


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Re: Why Not Remove the Birdies Through a Firmware Update

Guy, K2AV
In reply to this post by -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-
The firmware does allow you to take out birdies.

What you are suggesting is that the birdies are all the same for all
K3's, and the list could be populated in advance by Elecraft.  This is
not true due to normal manufacturing variation in component values,
which are used as is, and their small variation in values compensated
for by digital "ranging" in the firmware.

In a manner of speaking the combination of these "ranges" in a given
K3 is like a fingerprint, making each k3's collection of birdies
unique.

It is theoretically possible to have firmware/utilityware do a scan
with the RX inputs terminated, but I can guarantee that is a nasty
software app, and couldn't be done in Wayne's spare time over a
weekend. A birdie killer app would be neat, but.....

I have exactly three that bother me, all in the main RX, and I have
eliminated them with the firmware provision.

There are a lot of weak birdies that I can hear with open antenna
jacks that go away somewhere when I put a working well matched antenna
on it.  I suspect that is because unterminated pieces of internal coax
behave differently, but that is just a gut lurch. Then there is
ambient noise, which I have here even on ten meters.

I would have ambient noise on 6m if I had the preamp.  Practically,
birdies have to be really loud to be an issue 20m and down. One night
it occurred to me, that do I really care if I can hear a birdie on a
dead band? Is there even a microscopic chance I would send it back
because of a birdie that I could eliminate by taking the time to table
up one at a time with a firmware routine.

Then it struck me that since I didn't care enough to do that, that I
didn't care that much and didn't have even a microscopic chance of
sending it back.

If I was a six meter guy, I'd probably do the work on 6m. Takes a
preamp to hear the ambient noise.

73, Guy.


On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 3:31 AM, -.-.  --.-N3TU -.-.  --.-
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Wouldn't that be easier. Take a pole of all the birdies and take it out with
> firmware.
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Why-Not-Remove-the-Birdies-Through-a-Firmware-Update-tp4957689p4957689.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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RE: Why Not Remove the Birdies Through a Firmware Update

-.-.  --.-N3TU -.-.  --.-
Guy, Thanks for that clarification. I didn't realize that every K3 has different birdies. I will try to move the wires around as some suggested.


Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 09:41:19 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Why Not Remove the Birdies Through a Firmware Update

The firmware does allow you to take out birdies.

What you are suggesting is that the birdies are all the same for all
K3's, and the list could be populated in advance by Elecraft.  This is
not true due to normal manufacturing variation in component values,
which are used as is, and their small variation in values compensated
for by digital "ranging" in the firmware.

In a manner of speaking the combination of these "ranges" in a given
K3 is like a fingerprint, making each k3's collection of birdies
unique.

It is theoretically possible to have firmware/utilityware do a scan
with the RX inputs terminated, but I can guarantee that is a nasty
software app, and couldn't be done in Wayne's spare time over a
weekend. A birdie killer app would be neat, but.....

I have exactly three that bother me, all in the main RX, and I have
eliminated them with the firmware provision.

There are a lot of weak birdies that I can hear with open antenna
jacks that go away somewhere when I put a working well matched antenna
on it.  I suspect that is because unterminated pieces of internal coax
behave differently, but that is just a gut lurch. Then there is
ambient noise, which I have here even on ten meters.

I would have ambient noise on 6m if I had the preamp.  Practically,
birdies have to be really loud to be an issue 20m and down. One night
it occurred to me, that do I really care if I can hear a birdie on a
dead band? Is there even a microscopic chance I would send it back
because of a birdie that I could eliminate by taking the time to table
up one at a time with a firmware routine.

Then it struck me that since I didn't care enough to do that, that I
didn't care that much and didn't have even a microscopic chance of
sending it back.

If I was a six meter guy, I'd probably do the work on 6m. Takes a
preamp to hear the ambient noise.

73, Guy.


On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 3:31 AM, -.-.  --.-N3TU -.-.  --.-
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Wouldn't that be easier. Take a pole of all the birdies and take it out with
> firmware.
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Why-Not-Remove-the-Birdies-Through-a-Firmware-Update-tp4957689p4957689.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html



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