Why did I purchase this antenna for the KX3?

[David Gilbert]

I never said that Philip shouldn't enjoy what he has.  But he did
encourage others to buy that antenna, and that's the part to which I
take exception.  It simply is not comparable in
performance-versus-cost-versus-portability to other options.  And those
manufacturers claims that you don't care about are what lots of other
people base their buying decisions upon.

QRP is fun ... I used to do a lot of it.  Using simple gear is fun, too
... I used to do a lot of that as well.  But I would never try to talk
somebody into spending $130 for a poor approach to either.

Dave   AB7E


On 11/29/2012 7:37 PM, Andrew Moore wrote:

> I have no idea what this Miracle Whip is  or what it cost, but if
> Philip gained that much enjoyment from it and encouraged others,
> sounds like he wins.
>
> --Andrew
>
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 9:16 PM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I personally would not call paying $130 for a base loaded five foot whip without a counterpoise to be a "minimalist" approach, but to each his own.  If you want to "intentionally put limits on the gear" it would be far cheaper (as well as more effective) to hang simply an appropriate length of #24 wire on the wall with masking tape.
>>
>> And I still say that the manufacturer's claims are ridiculous ... read them yourself if you don't believe me.
>>
>> Dave   AB7E
>>
>>

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[va3bxg]

The problem is at times a 'simple' is not. And one needs just to 'get out' in any way one can. And if the whip works, then why not tell people (disclaimer don't have the whip)

It is easy to say that it does perform as well as other. But when one can not anything but something like this, why not tell people/endorse about it?

I live in a condo with no outside access 15+ floors up.
a 'kosher ham'

Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
Sender: [hidden email]
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 22:44:32
To: Andrew Moore<[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Why did I purchase this antenna for the KX3?


I never said that Philip shouldn't enjoy what he has.  But he did
encourage others to buy that antenna, and that's the part to which I
take exception.  It simply is not comparable in
performance-versus-cost-versus-portability to other options.  And those
manufacturers claims that you don't care about are what lots of other
people base their buying decisions upon.

QRP is fun ... I used to do a lot of it.  Using simple gear is fun, too
... I used to do a lot of that as well.  But I would never try to talk
somebody into spending $130 for a poor approach to either.

Dave   AB7E


On 11/29/2012 7:37 PM, Andrew Moore wrote:

> I have no idea what this Miracle Whip is  or what it cost, but if
> Philip gained that much enjoyment from it and encouraged others,
> sounds like he wins.
>
> --Andrew
>
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 9:16 PM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I personally would not call paying $130 for a base loaded five foot whip without a counterpoise to be a "minimalist" approach, but to each his own.  If you want to "intentionally put limits on the gear" it would be far cheaper (as well as more effective) to hang simply an appropriate length of #24 wire on the wall with masking tape.
>>
>> And I still say that the manufacturer's claims are ridiculous ... read them yourself if you don't believe me.
>>
>> Dave   AB7E
>>
>>

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[David Gilbert]

If an appropriate piece of wire taped to the wall (even in your condo)
would work better for far less money, why not tell people that as well?  
The original post in this thread came from someone with a KX3, and if he
has the tuner option I'd be very surprised if he could not load it.

But please ... if you want to buy the whip, then by all means buy the whip.

Dave   AB7E



On 11/29/2012 11:51 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> The problem is at times a 'simple' is not. And one needs just to 'get out' in any way one can. And if the whip works, then why not tell people (disclaimer don't have the whip)
>
> It is easy to say that it does perform as well as other. But when one can not anything but something like this, why not tell people/endorse about it?
>
> I live in a condo with no outside access 15+ floors up.
> a 'kosher ham'
>
> Robert
>

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[Jeff kb2m]

 I found this antenna shootout done in 2002 by the HFPacker group I'm a
member of....

http://hfpack.com/antennas/shootoutreport2002.html

This should give someone a good idea on the performance to be expected by a
portable antenna setup.
 Before I retired I used to run QRP portable with an 817 from hotel rooms
around the country, so I have years of experience with small antennas in
hotel rooms. Before I retired, and when the last solar cycle ended I
switched over to remoting and never looked back. The small antenna thing was
just too painful for me anymore.

73 Jeff kb2m

 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 0:45 AM
To: Andrew Moore
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Why did I purchase this antenna for the KX3?


I never said that Philip shouldn't enjoy what he has.  But he did encourage
others to buy that antenna, and that's the part to which I take exception.
It simply is not comparable in performance-versus-cost-versus-portability to
other options.  And those manufacturers claims that you don't care about are
what lots of other people base their buying decisions upon.

QRP is fun ... I used to do a lot of it.  Using simple gear is fun, too ...
I used to do a lot of that as well.  But I would never try to talk somebody
into spending $130 for a poor approach to either.

Dave   AB7E


On 11/29/2012 7:37 PM, Andrew Moore wrote:
> I have no idea what this Miracle Whip is  or what it cost, but if
> Philip gained that much enjoyment from it and encouraged others,
> sounds like he wins.
>
> --Andrew
>
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 9:16 PM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>
>> I personally would not call paying $130 for a base loaded five foot whip
without a counterpoise to be a "minimalist" approach, but to each his own.
If you want to "intentionally put limits on the gear" it would be far
cheaper (as well as more effective) to hang simply an appropriate length of
#24 wire on the wall with masking tape.
>>
>> And I still say that the manufacturer's claims are ridiculous ... read
them yourself if you don't believe me.
>>
>> Dave   AB7E

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[Andrew Moore-3]

By "minimalist" I'm referring not to the price, but to the construction of
the antenna, if it's what people say it is.

I'm not saying people should run out and buy one; my point (and only point)
is Philip had (and enjoyed) success with something others are quick to
dismiss as junk.  As Philip said, I encourage others to do the same.  Not
saying you have to spend $130 :)

73,
--Andrew, NV1B
..

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 9:16 PM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]>wrote:

>
> I personally would not call paying $130 for a base loaded five foot whip
> without a counterpoise to be a "minimalist" approach, but to each his own.
>  If you want to "intentionally put limits on the gear" it would be far
> cheaper (as well as more effective) to hang simply an appropriate length of
> #24 wire on the wall with masking tape.
>
>
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[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2012 30 Nov 01:13 -0600, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> The rest of the fraternity wince at seeing them spend
> dollars for something that can be done for pennies.

Ironically, in other internet forums the same logic seems to be applied
to those seeking more information about Elecraft products.  While I know
of no instance where Elecraft exagerates their products' performance (in
fact, I would submit that Elecraft advertizing is often understated),
there are those who do admonish from a misplaced higher value of
frugality, IMO.

73, de Nate, N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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[Philip G0ISW]

"BUT, if whatever particular portable antenna you choose is sufficiently
efficient for you, who am I to argue with your choice."

Absolutely right......I submitted my original comment as an actual user of the Miracle Whip antenna who could describe my own personal experience with it, rather than speculate negatively.

It is all about the Amateur Radio operator's needs, I too have a full size 80 metre dipole at home and when in the shack will use this as my main base antenna.

However, I also have a 2 metre high Sandpiper HV6+3 HF vertical which I use because I live in an area with restrictions on antennas, so no huge beams for me any more since 2009.

The miracle whip was purchased by me as an operational requirement for my 'Pedestrian Mobile' operation i.e. on the move whilst walking and also being discreet.

I found it also was ideal for packing on holiday due to its telescopic nature and very quick to deploy even on the beach!

I do also use even smaller HF aerials on my car, such as the Australian Outbacker Stealth plus at only 90cm long (3 feet) with sufficiently good enough results! Likewise my Yaesu ATAS 120 is not much longer and I work lots on that too.

So come on guys I am not trying to encourage anyone to buy any particular antenna, I am just providing my findings and if you want the full detail please visit my website at http://www.qsl.net/g0isw where you can see lots more.

The Elecraft KX-3 is a wonderful transceiver and I intend to operate it with lots of different antennas to suit the circumstances :-)

[Jim Low man]

True.  We don't know what his limitations are, as far as erecting a
suitable antenna.
And, as the saying goes, "A compromise antenna is better than a cold radio."

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 11/29/2012 6:37 PM, Andrew Moore wrote:
> I have no idea what this Miracle Whip is  or what it cost, but if
> Philip gained that much enjoyment from it and encouraged others,
> sounds like he wins.
>
> --Andrew
>

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[k3ox]

I think the important thing is to know what the Miracle Whip is and isn't. The website referenced earlier in this thread measured the Miracle Whip as around 10 db down (almost 2 "S" units) referenced to a 1/4 wave (16 ft) vertical in "pedestrial mobile" service on 20 meters. So it is more compromised than a compromise antenna (LOL).

I have a Miracle Whip and find the performance as a transmit antenna poor, but like it as a portable RX antenna.

Just don't expect errr.... miracles from the Miracle Whip. Certainly, contacts can be made, but QRP and a mediocre antenna can be a recipe for frustration, especially for a relatively inexperienced HF operator with perhaps unreasonable expectations.

Kevin