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Wire size for the ground on the KX2

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Mike Morrell

Wire size for the ground on the KX2

Given the small size of the mini banana plug for KX2 ground connection ,
what size wire are folks using ; assuming ease of transport , etc.

Thanks,

Mike K8KE

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Don Wilhelm

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

Mike,

I would use #22 teflon insulated wire. Teflon because it is 'slippery'
and that can help with wire tangles. Thinner wire may be lighter weight
if you are weighing fractions of ounces, but it is quite durable.
Anything thinner becomes more fragile. IMHO that is a reasonable
compromise.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/15/2017 4:27 PM, Mike Morrell wrote:
> Given the small size of the mini banana plug for KX2 ground connection ,
> what size wire are folks using ; assuming ease of transport , etc.
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Michael Walker

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

If this is for an RF ground, you'll need bigger than 22G for it to be
effective.

Braid would be preferred.

Mike va3mw

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> I would use #22 teflon insulated wire. Teflon because it is 'slippery'
> and that can help with wire tangles. Thinner wire may be lighter weight if
> you are weighing fractions of ounces, but it is quite durable. Anything
> thinner becomes more fragile. IMHO that is a reasonable compromise.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 6/15/2017 4:27 PM, Mike Morrell wrote:
>
>> Given the small size of the mini banana plug for KX2 ground connection ,
>> what size wire are folks using ; assuming ease of transport , etc.
>>
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

The speaker wire I use is the insulated flat stuff ~16 AWG equivalent. Rolls up into a nice small ball. I put a alligator clip on one end and a ring terminal for the KX3.
Mel, K6KBE

From: Michael Walker <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wire size for the ground on the KX2

If this is for an RF ground, you'll need bigger than 22G for it to be
effective.

Braid would be preferred.

Mike va3mw

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

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k6dgw

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

In reply to this post by Mike Morrell

Use what fits. RF current will be on the surface which scales as
r-squared. Obviously larger diameter make more surface area. If you're
in the field, use what fits/what you have. You'll never notice the
difference, ANY wire is better than no wire. It's really easy to fall
into "Picking fly poop out of the pepper," just go and enjoy your radio.

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 6/15/2017 1:27 PM, Mike Morrell wrote:
> Given the small size of the mini banana plug for KX2 ground connection ,
> what size wire are folks using ; assuming ease of transport , etc.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike K8KE
>

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K9MA

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

On 6/15/2017 21:59, Fred Jensen wrote:
> RF current will be on the surface which scales as r-squared.

Surface area is proportional to r, NOT r-squared.

However, the inductance is much more important than the resistance.
Larger diameter reduces the inductance, but not very fast, and in a
complicated way.

http://chemandy.com/calculators/round-wire-inductance-calculator.htm

Scott K9MA

--
Scott K9MA

[hidden email]

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

In reply to this post by Mike Morrell

On Thu,6/15/2017 1:27 PM, Mike Morrell wrote:
> Given the small size of the mini banana plug for KX2 ground connection, what size wire are folks using ; assuming ease of transport , etc.

What is the purpose of this "ground connection?" The only reason for a
connection to mother earth is for lightning protection. For that, you
want big wire.

Or is this a counterpoise, to make the antenna work better? Such a wire
should NOT be connected to mother earth, and a few feet above the earth
is a good thing. And it can be small diameter -- #18-#22 are commonly
used for backpacking.

73, Jim K9YC

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k6dgw

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

In reply to this post by K9MA

Indeed it is. For reasons unknown, my fingers slipped into overdrive.
Please consider "squared" to be my version of "convfefe."

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 6/15/2017 8:46 PM, K9MA wrote:
> On 6/15/2017 21:59, Fred Jensen wrote:
>> RF current will be on the surface which scales as r-squared.
>
> Surface area is proportional to r, NOT r-squared.

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

Administrator

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Its a counterpoise, typically for pedestrian mobile. (Mini-banana plug easily
pulls out if someone steps on a trailing wire..)
Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 6/15/2017 9:06 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Thu,6/15/2017 1:27 PM, Mike Morrell wrote:
>> Given the small size of the mini banana plug for KX2 ground connection, what
>> size wire are folks using ; assuming ease of transport , etc.
>
> What is the purpose of this "ground connection?" The only reason for a
> connection to mother earth is for lightning protection. For that, you want big
> wire.
>
> Or is this a counterpoise, to make the antenna work better? Such a wire should
> NOT be connected to mother earth, and a few feet above the earth is a good
> thing. And it can be small diameter -- #18-#22 are commonly used for backpacking.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Stephen Hanes

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

In reply to this post by Mike Morrell

Jim Brown,

Another reason for connecting a ground wire to ‘mother earth’ would be a variation on your reason, and that would be to provide a means to discharge excess charge (‘static electricity’) before it can damage your equipment. This buildup of charge can occur if the antenna is subjected to only moderate winds, even if no thunderstorm is nearby.

73,
Steve Hanes, K4VWS

Sent from Windows Mail

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k6dgw

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

But be wary however. That, in itself, may not and often does not offer
any protection at all. Each little charge from rain or snow static may
be minuscule, but they charge the input capacitance of the device in the
radio and eventually it breaks downbetween the input and the chassis.
Just grounding the chassis or ground plane on a PCB does nothing to
change that, it's the charge across the input that matters.

I believe, but do not know for sure, that Elecraft designs all have a
static bleed across the antenna connection. Possibly someone who knows
can enlighten all the rest of us. If you want to be sure and don't want
to take your radio apart, wire a 100K-200K 1/8 W resistor across a
PL-259 [or BNC]. Put a T-adapter onto the radio, resistor on one leg,
antenna on the other.

A number of years ago, our Cal QSO crew in Alpine county fried two
PROIII's from snow static for lack of a bleed. Total ham experience on
the crew was in the 300 year range ... You'd think someone would
havethought of it. [:-)

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 6/17/2017 8:13 AM, Stephen Hanes wrote:
> Jim Brown,
>
> Another reason for connecting a ground wire to ‘mother earth’ would be a variation on your reason, and that would be to provide a means to discharge excess charge (‘static electricity’) before it can damage your equipment. This buildup of charge can occur if the antenna is subjected to only moderate winds, even if no thunderstorm is nearby.
>
> 73,
> Steve Hanes, K4VWS
>

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Stephen Hanes

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

In reply to this post by Mike Morrell

Fred,

I guess that I was making the assumption [not good!] that the input would be protected by a gas-tube discharge device, such as those made by Alpha-Delta --- I try to always use one of these at the input of any radio. Of course, what is still needed is to discharge the excess charge, and that is what I addressed in my first note.

73,
Steve, K4VWS

Sent from Windows Mail

Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 13:59:08 -0700

From: Fred Jensen <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>

To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Wire size for the ground on the KX2

Message-ID: <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

But be wary however. That, in itself, may not and often does not offer any protection at all. Each little charge from rain or snow static may be minuscule, but they charge the input capacitance of the device in the radio and eventually it breaks downbetween the input and the chassis.

Just grounding the chassis or ground plane on a PCB does nothing to change that, it's the charge across the input that matters.

I believe, but do not know for sure, that Elecraft designs all have a static bleed across the antenna connection. Possibly someone who knows can enlighten all the rest of us. If you want to be sure and don't want to take your radio apart, wire a 100K-200K 1/8 W resistor across a

PL-259 [or BNC]. Put a T-adapter onto the radio, resistor on one leg, antenna on the other.

A number of years ago, our Cal QSO crew in Alpine county fried two PROIII's from snow static for lack of a bleed. Total ham experience on the crew was in the 300 year range ... You'd think someone would havethought of it. [:-)

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW

Sparks NV USA

Washoe County DM09dn

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Don Wilhelm

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Skip,

Yes, I believe that later Elecraft products do have a static bleed or
other static prevention across the antenna connections.

BUT for K2 owners, that is not the case. The original KPA100 design had
a 100uH RF Choke across the antenna terminals for just that purpose, but
the latest KPA100 upgrade (to reduce the chance of an oscillation of
about 8MHz when on 40 meters) the choke was removed because it coupled
with the base K2 causing the oscillation.

For those K2 that I repair that have damaged wattmeter diodes in the
KPA100, I have been installing a non-reactive 47k 2 watt resistor across
the SO-239 jack, and also across the antenna jacks in the KAT100 (I put
them on the bottom of the board, it is easier than soldering directly to
the jacks).

The best defense is to disconnect the antenna(s) when not in use.

Your solution of putting a Tee adapter on the rig with a resistor
soldered into a PL-259 on one side of the Tee is a good one.
The resistor can be smaller than 100-200k, but as the value gets
smaller, the wattage should go up. I would not recommend anything less
than 33k ohms.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/17/2017 4:59 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> I believe, but do not know for sure, that Elecraft designs all have a
> static bleed across the antenna connection. Possibly someone who knows
> can enlighten all the rest of us. If you want to be sure and don't want
> to take your radio apart, wire a 100K-200K 1/8 W resistor across a
> PL-259 [or BNC]. Put a T-adapter onto the radio, resistor on one leg,
> antenna on the other.
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k6dgw

Re: Wire size for the ground on the KX2

Good to know! My K2 no longer has the KPA100, but I still have the BNC
Tee on the antenna. K3 does as well. You can calculate the required
resistor size [watts] with a little arithmetic. I've used anything from
about 56K to 220K, whatever I find in the junkbox. When us "old guys"
fried the two ICOM's, the noise was just very mild "bacon frying" and
barely noticeable on the baseline of the panadapter, certainly nothing
to provoke alarm.

Important to note though that this is different protection for the input
than a gas discharge tube or other lightning arrestor device. They may
protect against major voltage surges but are otherwise open circuits.
And, enough of a surge that fires the device may still get through to
cook the front end components.

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 6/17/2017 5:18 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Skip,
>
> Yes, I believe that later Elecraft products do have a static bleed or
> other static prevention across the antenna connections.
>
> BUT for K2 owners, that is not the case. The original KPA100 design
> had a 100uH RF Choke across the antenna terminals for just that
> purpose, but the latest KPA100 upgrade (to reduce the chance of an
> oscillation of about 8MHz when on 40 meters) the choke was removed
> because it coupled with the base K2 causing the oscillation.
>
> For those K2 that I repair that have damaged wattmeter diodes in the
> KPA100, I have been installing a non-reactive 47k 2 watt resistor
> across the SO-239 jack, and also across the antenna jacks in the
> KAT100 (I put them on the bottom of the board, it is easier than
> soldering directly to the jacks).