Yaesu versus Elecraft Service

[Jim Garland]

(Copy of a posting I sent today to the Yaesu FT-2000 reflector, contrasting
Yaesu and Elecraft technical support. I believe it speaks for itself.)

 

  _____  

From: Jim Garland [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:22 AM
To: '[hidden email]'
Subject: Update: Yaesu Service

 

Two weeks ago I posted a note here about Yaesu's policy of not allowing
customers to speak to service technicians, instead referring inquiries to
customer support personnel who were unfamiliar with the inner workings of
Yaesu products. This is the same policy used by auto dealers, who insert a
"customer service manager" between a customer and mechanic, or computer
manufacturers whose support personnel answer technical questions by reading
from a prepared script.

 

In my case, I had questions about the first mixer stage in my FT-2000D,
which I suspected had failed. I had traced the signal path to the mixer with
an oscilloscope, but wasn't sure how to interpret the output signal. I
couldn't tell from the circuit diagram how much bias current the mixer FETs
were supposed to draw, what the conversion loss from the mixer was (after
taking into account losses and turns ratios of the coupling transformers),
whether this was a common failure mode in the radio and what the likely
cause was, and whether there were any useful pointers in replacing the tiny
surface mount mixer IC.

 

Unable to get anwers, I didn't want to take a chance plunging ahead with the
repair myself, so I ended up sending the radio back to Yaesu. The repair
bill came to $187 plus another $90 round trip shipping. Incidentally, the
first mixer is nothing special; it is a garden variety IC that costs about
$4.

 

By coincidence, I also had a failure in my Elecraft K3, which had suddenly
stopped transmitting during a recent 6m contest. I called Elecraft and was
immediately put through to a service technician. I explained my problem and
he asked me a few questions about my electronics background and what sort of
test equipment I had on my workbench. He decided that I had enough enough
experience to fix the problem myself, and we agreed that I would call him
back after putting my K3 on my test bench and removing the covers.

 

Later that day, I called him back and, together, we traced the signal path
through the transmitter. I had the phone in one hand and a scope probe in
the other. In a matter of 20 minutes, we determined that the push-pull FETs
in the driver stage had shorted. He mailed me replacement FETs which came in
three days. Ten minutes after opening the package, my K3 was back on the
air.

 

I have had similar experiences repairing a Ten-Tec Orion transceiver and
SteppIR 4 el yagi. In each case, the service technicians were happy to talk
to me and, with their guidance, repairs were quick and straightforward.

 

Here's my point. Ham radio is a technical hobby. It begin a century ago,
when all stations were homebrewed by their owners. Today, of course, there
are hundreds of thousands of hams, and their technical expertise runs the
gamut from inexperienced beginners to Ph.D. engineers. But all hams, I would
hope, have a least a passing interest in electronics. Surely, anybody who
buys a sophisticated transceiver like an FT-2000, has to know _something_
about DSP, roofing filters, preamps and RF attenuators, 3rd order intercept
points, antenna tuners, and so forth. And I would hope that all hams,
whatever their level of technical knowledge and experience, have a desire to
learn more about their radios.

 

Thus I believe Yaesu's service policy disrespects the traditions of amateur
radio. It is policy that treats all hams as if they had no interest in their
radios other than to gain a cursory understanding of the front panel knobs
and buttons. For some hams, this kind of policy is fine, because it suits
their interests, experience, and skill level. But for thousands of others in
the hobby, like myself, it is inappropriate. I don't like taking my car to
my Toyota dealer and dealing with an uninformed service representative who
knows less about cars than I do (which isn't much.) But I really hate it
when I run into the same kind of corporate mentality with amateur radio
manufacturers.

 

73,

Jim Garland W8ZR

______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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[Dick Williams-2]

Jim,

All the more reason to buy American products!   I owned a couple of Yaseu HF
rigs in the past and I was more than dis-pleased with their service dept.
In one instance, the SWR protection circuit went out in my 1000D; sent it
back telling them what the problem was (or what caused the final transistors
to burn out).   I even called and was told that, "O yes" the purported tech
I talked to said that the radio was fixed right.  Well, when I got it back,
all they did was replace the finals.

As far as I am concerned, any ham who buys a Yaesu or Icom HF radio is a
fool and uninformed.  Both the K3 and O2 will run circles around any of the
other rigs (maybe with the exception of the SDR radios).

And when you talk about service, both Ten Tec and Elecraft are top notch.
You are so right when you say you get to talk to a tech, not some idiot that
is a "go between" and not familiar with the radio.

That is my "2 cents" worth".

Dick K8ZTT

PS  Unfotunately we don't have a lot of choices with the VHF/UHF equipment,
but at least it is not a big investment if it goes up in smoke.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Garland" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service

> (Copy of a posting I sent today to the Yaesu FT-2000 reflector,
> contrasting
> Yaesu and Elecraft technical support. I believe it speaks for itself.)
>
>
>
>  _____
>
> From: Jim Garland [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:22 AM
> To: '[hidden email]'
> Subject: Update: Yaesu Service
>
>
>
> Two weeks ago I posted a note here about Yaesu's policy of not allowing
> customers to speak to service technicians, instead referring inquiries to
> customer support personnel who were unfamiliar with the inner workings of
> Yaesu products. This is the same policy used by auto dealers, who insert a
> "customer service manager" between a customer and mechanic, or computer
> manufacturers whose support personnel answer technical questions by
> reading
> from a prepared script.
>
>
>
> In my case, I had questions about the first mixer stage in my FT-2000D,
> which I suspected had failed. I had traced the signal path to the mixer
> with
> an oscilloscope, but wasn't sure how to interpret the output signal. I
> couldn't tell from the circuit diagram how much bias current the mixer
> FETs
> were supposed to draw, what the conversion loss from the mixer was (after
> taking into account losses and turns ratios of the coupling transformers),
> whether this was a common failure mode in the radio and what the likely
> cause was, and whether there were any useful pointers in replacing the
> tiny
> surface mount mixer IC.
>
>
>
> Unable to get anwers, I didn't want to take a chance plunging ahead with
> the
> repair myself, so I ended up sending the radio back to Yaesu. The repair
> bill came to $187 plus another $90 round trip shipping. Incidentally, the
> first mixer is nothing special; it is a garden variety IC that costs about
> $4.
>
>
>
> By coincidence, I also had a failure in my Elecraft K3, which had suddenly
> stopped transmitting during a recent 6m contest. I called Elecraft and was
> immediately put through to a service technician. I explained my problem
> and
> he asked me a few questions about my electronics background and what sort
> of
> test equipment I had on my workbench. He decided that I had enough enough
> experience to fix the problem myself, and we agreed that I would call him
> back after putting my K3 on my test bench and removing the covers.
>
>
>
> Later that day, I called him back and, together, we traced the signal path
> through the transmitter. I had the phone in one hand and a scope probe in
> the other. In a matter of 20 minutes, we determined that the push-pull
> FETs
> in the driver stage had shorted. He mailed me replacement FETs which came
> in
> three days. Ten minutes after opening the package, my K3 was back on the
> air.
>
>
>
> I have had similar experiences repairing a Ten-Tec Orion transceiver and
> SteppIR 4 el yagi. In each case, the service technicians were happy to
> talk
> to me and, with their guidance, repairs were quick and straightforward.
>
>
>
> Here's my point. Ham radio is a technical hobby. It begin a century ago,
> when all stations were homebrewed by their owners. Today, of course, there
> are hundreds of thousands of hams, and their technical expertise runs the
> gamut from inexperienced beginners to Ph.D. engineers. But all hams, I
> would
> hope, have a least a passing interest in electronics. Surely, anybody who
> buys a sophisticated transceiver like an FT-2000, has to know _something_
> about DSP, roofing filters, preamps and RF attenuators, 3rd order
> intercept
> points, antenna tuners, and so forth. And I would hope that all hams,
> whatever their level of technical knowledge and experience, have a desire
> to
> learn more about their radios.
>
>
>
> Thus I believe Yaesu's service policy disrespects the traditions of
> amateur
> radio. It is policy that treats all hams as if they had no interest in
> their
> radios other than to gain a cursory understanding of the front panel knobs
> and buttons. For some hams, this kind of policy is fine, because it suits
> their interests, experience, and skill level. But for thousands of others
> in
> the hobby, like myself, it is inappropriate. I don't like taking my car to
> my Toyota dealer and dealing with an uninformed service representative who
> knows less about cars than I do (which isn't much.) But I really hate it
> when I run into the same kind of corporate mentality with amateur radio
> manufacturers.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> Jim Garland W8ZR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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[Grant Youngman]

>
> As far as I am concerned, any ham who buys a Yaesu or Icom HF radio  
> is a
> fool and uninformed.  Both the K3 and O2 will run circles around any  
> of the
> other rigs (maybe with the exception of the SDR radios).
>

Except that the K3 and O1/O2 ARE SDR radios ....

I guess because they have an actual front panel, and don't require a  
mouse, keyboard,  or Windoze-pick-your-poison PC makes them something  
else?   :-)

Grant/NQ5T
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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[Nelson Moyer]

Yaesu is selling disposable radios. I called about sending in my eight year
old FT-100D for repair and was told they no longer support the FT-100. Why
would anyone spend 12K on a Yaesu radio that will be obsolete in less than
eight years?

My experience with Elecraft service, on the other hand, has been stellar.

Nelson, KU0A

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dick Williams
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 3:15 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service

Jim,

All the more reason to buy American products!   I owned a couple of Yaseu HF

rigs in the past and I was more than dis-pleased with their service dept.
In one instance, the SWR protection circuit went out in my 1000D; sent it
back telling them what the problem was (or what caused the final transistors

to burn out).   I even called and was told that, "O yes" the purported tech
I talked to said that the radio was fixed right.  Well, when I got it back,
all they did was replace the finals.

As far as I am concerned, any ham who buys a Yaesu or Icom HF radio is a
fool and uninformed.  Both the K3 and O2 will run circles around any of the
other rigs (maybe with the exception of the SDR radios).

And when you talk about service, both Ten Tec and Elecraft are top notch.
You are so right when you say you get to talk to a tech, not some idiot that

is a "go between" and not familiar with the radio.

That is my "2 cents" worth".

Dick K8ZTT

PS  Unfotunately we don't have a lot of choices with the VHF/UHF equipment,
but at least it is not a big investment if it goes up in smoke.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Garland" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service

> (Copy of a posting I sent today to the Yaesu FT-2000 reflector,
> contrasting
> Yaesu and Elecraft technical support. I believe it speaks for itself.)
>
>
>
>  _____
>
> From: Jim Garland [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:22 AM
> To: '[hidden email]'
> Subject: Update: Yaesu Service
>
>
>
> Two weeks ago I posted a note here about Yaesu's policy of not allowing
> customers to speak to service technicians, instead referring inquiries to
> customer support personnel who were unfamiliar with the inner workings of
> Yaesu products. This is the same policy used by auto dealers, who insert a
> "customer service manager" between a customer and mechanic, or computer
> manufacturers whose support personnel answer technical questions by
> reading
> from a prepared script.
>
>
>
> In my case, I had questions about the first mixer stage in my FT-2000D,
> which I suspected had failed. I had traced the signal path to the mixer
> with
> an oscilloscope, but wasn't sure how to interpret the output signal. I
> couldn't tell from the circuit diagram how much bias current the mixer
> FETs
> were supposed to draw, what the conversion loss from the mixer was (after
> taking into account losses and turns ratios of the coupling transformers),
> whether this was a common failure mode in the radio and what the likely
> cause was, and whether there were any useful pointers in replacing the
> tiny
> surface mount mixer IC.
>
>
>
> Unable to get anwers, I didn't want to take a chance plunging ahead with
> the
> repair myself, so I ended up sending the radio back to Yaesu. The repair
> bill came to $187 plus another $90 round trip shipping. Incidentally, the
> first mixer is nothing special; it is a garden variety IC that costs about
> $4.
>
>
>
> By coincidence, I also had a failure in my Elecraft K3, which had suddenly
> stopped transmitting during a recent 6m contest. I called Elecraft and was
> immediately put through to a service technician. I explained my problem
> and
> he asked me a few questions about my electronics background and what sort
> of
> test equipment I had on my workbench. He decided that I had enough enough
> experience to fix the problem myself, and we agreed that I would call him
> back after putting my K3 on my test bench and removing the covers.
>
>
>
> Later that day, I called him back and, together, we traced the signal path
> through the transmitter. I had the phone in one hand and a scope probe in
> the other. In a matter of 20 minutes, we determined that the push-pull
> FETs
> in the driver stage had shorted. He mailed me replacement FETs which came
> in
> three days. Ten minutes after opening the package, my K3 was back on the
> air.
>
>
>
> I have had similar experiences repairing a Ten-Tec Orion transceiver and
> SteppIR 4 el yagi. In each case, the service technicians were happy to
> talk
> to me and, with their guidance, repairs were quick and straightforward.
>
>
>
> Here's my point. Ham radio is a technical hobby. It begin a century ago,
> when all stations were homebrewed by their owners. Today, of course, there
> are hundreds of thousands of hams, and their technical expertise runs the
> gamut from inexperienced beginners to Ph.D. engineers. But all hams, I
> would
> hope, have a least a passing interest in electronics. Surely, anybody who
> buys a sophisticated transceiver like an FT-2000, has to know _something_
> about DSP, roofing filters, preamps and RF attenuators, 3rd order
> intercept
> points, antenna tuners, and so forth. And I would hope that all hams,
> whatever their level of technical knowledge and experience, have a desire
> to
> learn more about their radios.
>
>
>
> Thus I believe Yaesu's service policy disrespects the traditions of
> amateur
> radio. It is policy that treats all hams as if they had no interest in
> their
> radios other than to gain a cursory understanding of the front panel knobs
> and buttons. For some hams, this kind of policy is fine, because it suits
> their interests, experience, and skill level. But for thousands of others
> in
> the hobby, like myself, it is inappropriate. I don't like taking my car to
> my Toyota dealer and dealing with an uninformed service representative who
> knows less about cars than I do (which isn't much.) But I really hate it
> when I run into the same kind of corporate mentality with amateur radio
> manufacturers.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> Jim Garland W8ZR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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[Bill Steffey NY9H]

I believe that when YOUR TAX dollars purchase radios for your fire &
police departments
that one of the big "American" vendors..indicates that in 6 years
they will no longer support the radios. AND THEY GET MILLIONS FOR
THOSE SYSTEMS.Too bad our 35 year old  5 community police repeater
system from the same factory is still going great,,,

And I believe that ICOM does 'allow' us to speak with technicians.

bill

At 04:09 PM 7/5/2009, Nelson Moyer wrote:

>Yaesu is selling disposable radios. I called about sending in my eight year
>old FT-100D for repair and was told they no longer support the FT-100. Why
>would anyone spend 12K on a Yaesu radio that will be obsolete in less than
>eight years?
>
>My experience with Elecraft service, on the other hand, has been stellar.
>
>Nelson, KU0A
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email]
>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dick Williams
>Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 3:15 PM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service
>
>Jim,
>
>All the more reason to buy American products!   I owned a couple of Yaseu HF
>
>rigs in the past and I was more than dis-pleased with their service dept.
>In one instance, the SWR protection circuit went out in my 1000D; sent it
>back telling them what the problem was (or what caused the final transistors
>
>to burn out).   I even called and was told that, "O yes" the purported tech
>I talked to said that the radio was fixed right.  Well, when I got it back,
>all they did was replace the finals.
>
>As far as I am concerned, any ham who buys a Yaesu or Icom HF radio is a
>fool and uninformed.  Both the K3 and O2 will run circles around any of the
>other rigs (maybe with the exception of the SDR radios).
>
>And when you talk about service, both Ten Tec and Elecraft are top notch.
>You are so right when you say you get to talk to a tech, not some idiot that
>
>is a "go between" and not familiar with the radio.
>
>That is my "2 cents" worth".
>
>Dick K8ZTT
>
>PS  Unfotunately we don't have a lot of choices with the VHF/UHF equipment,
>but at least it is not a big investment if it goes up in smoke.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Garland" <[hidden email]>
>To: <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:36 AM
>Subject: [Elecraft] Yaesu versus Elecraft Service
>
>
> > (Copy of a posting I sent today to the Yaesu FT-2000 reflector,
> > contrasting
> > Yaesu and Elecraft technical support. I believe it speaks for itself.)
> >
> >
> >
> >  _____
> >
> > From: Jim Garland [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:22 AM
> > To: '[hidden email]'
> > Subject: Update: Yaesu Service
> >
> >
> >
> > Two weeks ago I posted a note here about Yaesu's policy of not allowing
> > customers to speak to service technicians, instead referring inquiries to
> > customer support personnel who were unfamiliar with the inner workings of
> > Yaesu products. This is the same policy used by auto dealers, who insert a
> > "customer service manager" between a customer and mechanic, or computer
> > manufacturers whose support personnel answer technical questions by
> > reading
> > from a prepared script.
> >
> >
> >
> > In my case, I had questions about the first mixer stage in my FT-2000D,
> > which I suspected had failed. I had traced the signal path to the mixer
> > with
> > an oscilloscope, but wasn't sure how to interpret the output signal. I
> > couldn't tell from the circuit diagram how much bias current the mixer
> > FETs
> > were supposed to draw, what the conversion loss from the mixer was (after
> > taking into account losses and turns ratios of the coupling transformers),
> > whether this was a common failure mode in the radio and what the likely
> > cause was, and whether there were any useful pointers in replacing the
> > tiny
> > surface mount mixer IC.
> >
> >
> >
> > Unable to get anwers, I didn't want to take a chance plunging ahead with
> > the
> > repair myself, so I ended up sending the radio back to Yaesu. The repair
> > bill came to $187 plus another $90 round trip shipping. Incidentally, the
> > first mixer is nothing special; it is a garden variety IC that costs about
> > $4.
> >
> >
> >
> > By coincidence, I also had a failure in my Elecraft K3, which had suddenly
> > stopped transmitting during a recent 6m contest. I called Elecraft and was
> > immediately put through to a service technician. I explained my problem
> > and
> > he asked me a few questions about my electronics background and what sort
> > of
> > test equipment I had on my workbench. He decided that I had enough enough
> > experience to fix the problem myself, and we agreed that I would call him
> > back after putting my K3 on my test bench and removing the covers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Later that day, I called him back and, together, we traced the signal path
> > through the transmitter. I had the phone in one hand and a scope probe in
> > the other. In a matter of 20 minutes, we determined that the push-pull
> > FETs
> > in the driver stage had shorted. He mailed me replacement FETs which came
> > in
> > three days. Ten minutes after opening the package, my K3 was back on the
> > air.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have had similar experiences repairing a Ten-Tec Orion transceiver and
> > SteppIR 4 el yagi. In each case, the service technicians were happy to
> > talk
> > to me and, with their guidance, repairs were quick and straightforward.
> >
> >
> >
> > Here's my point. Ham radio is a technical hobby. It begin a century ago,
> > when all stations were homebrewed by their owners. Today, of course, there
> > are hundreds of thousands of hams, and their technical expertise runs the
> > gamut from inexperienced beginners to Ph.D. engineers. But all hams, I
> > would
> > hope, have a least a passing interest in electronics. Surely, anybody who
> > buys a sophisticated transceiver like an FT-2000, has to know _something_
> > about DSP, roofing filters, preamps and RF attenuators, 3rd order
> > intercept
> > points, antenna tuners, and so forth. And I would hope that all hams,
> > whatever their level of technical knowledge and experience, have a desire
> > to
> > learn more about their radios.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thus I believe Yaesu's service policy disrespects the traditions of
> > amateur
> > radio. It is policy that treats all hams as if they had no interest in
> > their
> > radios other than to gain a cursory understanding of the front panel knobs
> > and buttons. For some hams, this kind of policy is fine, because it suits
> > their interests, experience, and skill level. But for thousands of others
> > in
> > the hobby, like myself, it is inappropriate. I don't like taking my car to
> > my Toyota dealer and dealing with an uninformed service representative who
> > knows less about cars than I do (which isn't much.) But I really hate it
> > when I run into the same kind of corporate mentality with amateur radio
> > manufacturers.
> >
> >
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Jim Garland W8ZR
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.5/2219 - Release Date: 07/05/09
>05:53:00
>
>______________________________________________________________
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>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

Guys - Let's end this thread.

73, Eric  WA6HHQ
list Moderator


Bill NY9H wrote:

> I believe that when YOUR TAX dollars purchase radios for your fire &
> police departments
> that one of the big "American" vendors..indicates that in 6 years
> they will no longer support the radios. AND THEY GET MILLIONS FOR
> THOSE SYSTEMS.Too bad our 35 year old  5 community police repeater
> system from the same factory is still going great,,,
>
> And I believe that ICOM does 'allow' us to speak with technicians.
>
> bill
>  

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