best grounding technique
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best grounding technique
 
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It seems that there are two ways of running grounding wires in the
shack: FAN - from a common ground point, individual grounding wires are run to each piece of equipment; LINKING - a ground wire is run from each piece of equipment to the next and eventually ending in a common ground point. What's the group wisdom on the relative merits of these two approaches to running grounds in the shack? ...robert -- Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY [hidden email] Syracuse, New York, USA ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: best grounding technique
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The ARRL book on Grounding and Bonding is very clear. Each piece of
gear has its OWN wire/strap to a common grounding point (a copper pipe mounted on a wall is a common method, that being connected to the system ground; everything to the building safety ground, more ground rods every 2x the depth of the rod). Look at it this way, say a discharge comes in through your antenna, into the radio, connected to your computer and other devices. Would you prefer that energy goes only through the radio to ground (losing the radio) or in a series through everything else in the shack too? The 'fan' mode you mention is preferred, give that energy EVERY chance to seek ground BEFORE it passes through your gear. Energy shunts (PolyPhase devises for example) at the antenna entry point are another must. One per feed. I suggest reading that book, several times (it's complex) for a better understanding. 73, Rick NK7I On 3/19/2021 2:06 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote: > It seems that there are two ways of running grounding wires in the > shack: FAN - from a common ground point, individual grounding wires > are run to each piece of equipment; LINKING - a ground wire is run > from each piece of equipment to the next and eventually ending in a > common ground point. What's the group wisdom on the relative merits of > these two approaches to running grounds in the shack? > ...robert ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
On 3/19/2021 2:27 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> Personally, I would re-read the appropriate chapter in the ARRL Grounding and Bonding book. That explains the goal of bonding equipment and gives best practices. This book will be the best $23 you spend on grounding and bonding. I’ve already read it twice, but there is no way to remember the whole thing, so I always refer back to it. > > https://www.arrl.org/shop/Grounding-and-Bonding-for-the-Radio-Amateur As it happens, Ward and I are putting the finishing touches on the second edition. The first one is very good, the second will be even better. My take on it, about five years ago, are in this slide pdf for talks I've done at Pacificon, Visalia, and some clubs. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Whoa, nice! Can you let the list know when it's available? I'd love to pick
up a copy. On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 19:22 Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote: > As it happens, Ward and I are putting the finishing touches on the > second edition. The first one is very goodd, the second will be even better. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
Home runs from each piece to the bus bar.
If mounting in a metal rack, bond each piece to the rack and then home runs from each rack to the bus bar. 73, Nate, N0NB -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Web: https://www.n0nb.us Projects: https://github.com/N0NB GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Rick Bates, NK7I
Interesting. I don't have (and probably won't buy) the book, but here we have a
disconnect---no pun intended. If Rick's comment is accurate, and I have no reason to think otherwise, then what it states is in direct conflict with what one co-author (K9YC) has preached for years, that each box should connect to the next and there is only one connected to the ground system. He even calls it madness to use individual connections to a common ground bus. This pretty much sums up why I'm not in the market for the book. Wes N7WS On 3/19/2021 2:44 PM, Rick NK7I wrote: > The ARRL book on Grounding and Bonding is very clear. Each piece of gear has > its OWN wire/strap to a common grounding point (a copper pipe mounted on a > wall is a common method, that being connected to the system ground; everything > to the building safety ground, more ground rods every 2x the depth of the rod). > > Look at it this way, say a discharge comes in through your antenna, into the > radio, connected to your computer and other devices. Would you prefer that > energy goes only through the radio to ground (losing the radio) or in a series > through everything else in the shack too? The 'fan' mode you mention is > preferred, give that energy EVERY chance to seek ground BEFORE it passes > through your gear. > > Energy shunts (PolyPhase devises for example) at the antenna entry point are > another must. One per feed. > > I suggest reading that book, several times (it's complex) for a better > understanding. > > 73, > Rick NK7I > > On 3/19/2021 2:06 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote: >> It seems that there are two ways of running grounding wires in the shack: FAN >> - from a common ground point, individual grounding wires are run to each >> piece of equipment; LINKING - a ground wire is run from each piece of >> equipment to the next and eventually ending in a common ground point. What's >> the group wisdom on the relative merits of these two approaches to running >> grounds in the shack? >> ...robert ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Having a bus that runs the length of an operating desk with all the
equipment connected to it by short straps is not that different from bonding each piece of equipment to the ones next to it. But it allows you to remove one unit without breaking the "chain." This is contrasted to the "star" system, in which each piece of equipment is grounded to a central point with a relatively long ground lead. 73, Victor, 4X6GP Rehovot, Israel CWops #5 Formerly K2VCO https://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ On 20/03/2021 17:57, Wes wrote: > Interesting. I don't have (and probably won't buy) the book, but here > we have a disconnect---no pun intended. > > If Rick's comment is accurate, and I have no reason to think otherwise, > then what it states is in direct conflict with what one co-author (K9YC) > has preached for years, that each box should connect to the next and > there is only one connected to the ground system. He even calls it > madness to use individual connections to a common ground bus. > > This pretty much sums up why I'm not in the market for the book. > > Wes N7WS > > > On 3/19/2021 2:44 PM, Rick NK7I wrote: >> The ARRL book on Grounding and Bonding is very clear. Each piece of >> gear has its OWN wire/strap to a common grounding point (a copper pipe >> mounted on a wall is a common method, that being connected to the >> system ground; everything to the building safety ground, more ground >> rods every 2x the depth of the rod). >> >> Look at it this way, say a discharge comes in through your antenna, >> into the radio, connected to your computer and other devices. Would >> you prefer that energy goes only through the radio to ground (losing >> the radio) or in a series through everything else in the shack too? >> The 'fan' mode you mention is preferred, give that energy EVERY chance >> to seek ground BEFORE it passes through your gear. >> >> Energy shunts (PolyPhase devises for example) at the antenna entry >> point are another must. One per feed. >> >> I suggest reading that book, several times (it's complex) for a better >> understanding. >> >> 73, >> Rick NK7I >> >> On 3/19/2021 2:06 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote: >>> It seems that there are two ways of running grounding wires in the >>> shack: FAN - from a common ground point, individual grounding wires >>> are run to each piece of equipment; LINKING - a ground wire is run >>> from each piece of equipment to the next and eventually ending in a >>> common ground point. What's the group wisdom on the relative merits >>> of these two approaches to running grounds in the shack? >>> ...robert Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2
On 3/20/2021 8:57 AM, Wes wrote:
> If Rick's comment is accurate, and I have no reason to think otherwise, > then what it states is in direct conflict with what one co-author (K9YC) > has preached for years, that each box should connect to the next and > there is only one connected to the ground system. He even calls it > madness to use individual connections to a common ground bus. Ward's text on this topic does, include my recommendations for "daisy-chain" bonding of interconnected equipment, but also downgrades it in favor of a star WITHIN THE STATION, and with an emphasis on keeping bonding connections short. He includes a photo I provided of W6GJB's neatly packaged station for his contesting trailer, showing a copper pape bonding bus just behind the equipment, with bonding conductors to it from each piece of gear. The emphasis is on keeping bonding conductors very short, both to minimize power line buzz and potential differences between equipment in a lightning event. He shows how an Al sheet laid on top of the operating desk can serve as both a bonding plane and minimize induction onto cables laid on it. And he has incorporated my advice that the loop area of interconnecting cables and bonding cables should be minimized to prevent magnetic coupling by bundling or lacing them together. There's also very good text on proper shield connections (the Pin One Problem), bypassing of unshielded conductors at penetrations of enclosures. There's material on the use of ferrite chokes to prevent RF in the shack, how to deal with end-fed antennas with a feedpoint in the shack, and lots of other good stuff. Another goal, covered in the last chapter which is not yet done, is to address second floor shacks. Outside the shack, there's very good discussion of towers, bonding of the entire premises, ground rods, connection methods, and so on. Everything conforms to NEC and good engineering practice. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Nate Bargmann
On 3/19/2021 5:47 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> Home runs from each piece to the bus bar. > > If mounting in a metal rack, bond each piece to the rack and then home runs > from each rack to the bus bar. Commercial communication site practice is to have a "halo" - large-diameter wire or bus bar - all around the walls and tie each rack, stand-alone box, conduit, cable ladder, etc. to the "halo". This is then connected to a similar grounding system buried around the perimeter of the building tied to ground rods per code. Sounds tedious but that's what keeps the facility safe. With thanks to my late colleague, Tom Croda, the recognized national expert in the field of comm site power and grounding, who came to work for my firm after retiring from Sprint and proceeded to teach us the right way to do those things. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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On 3/20/2021 8:05 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
> Commercial communication site practice Note that commercial communications is VHF/UHF, with vertical antennas at the top of towers, often on mountaintops. Our antenna systems and site locations are often rather different. Take these differences into account when applying them to our stations, which may be VERY different. Their antennas, for example, are all vertical sticks on a tower. I had the experience of setting up a ham station at a decommissioned AT&T Long Lines microwave site on a 3,000 ft peak with a 140 ft tower (36 ft square at the base, 24 ft square at the top), and studied their grounding. VERY different application, VERY different budget. They spent $1Meg on the road to the site. Walls were 14-in thick, and removable to allow the installation of equipment. Grounding was textbook for THEIR system, which was all microwave dishes. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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On 3/21/2021 1:58 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> Note that commercial communications is VHF/UHF, with vertical antennas > at the top of towers, often on mountaintops. Our antenna systems and > site locations are often rather different. Take these differences into > account when applying them to our stations, which may be VERY different. > Their antennas, for example, are all vertical sticks on a tower. Point well taken. and the vast majority of our LMR clients' sites are a mixture of vertical antennas, corner reflectors, small yagis, and microwave dishes. The cost of the ground system is a fraction of the costs of the infrastructure and equipment including labor. As hams, we do what we can..... especially those of us who live in areas where it's rare to get lightning more than once a year if that much. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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"As hams, we do what we can..... especially those of us who live in areas
where it's rare to get lightning more than once a year if that much." 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon ************************************************* Which prompted me to find out where those areas are: https://geology.com/articles/lightning-map.shtml 73 Lyn, W0LEN ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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