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help wiring a mic?

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Schumacher, Paul

help wiring a mic?

I have a Neewer NW 800 mic that I want to use with a KX3. Anyone know

how to wire it up?

thanks,

Paul K0ZYV
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Clay Autery-2

Re: help wiring a mic?

If it is a condenser mic, it's going to need a 48v power supply....
They now make some nice little tiny ones...

I LOVE my condenser mic...

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 05-Jul-18 17:44, Walter Underwood wrote:

> That mic appears to require 48 V phantom power (mic bias), which is far more than the KX3 provides. One question on Amazon says it works with 5 V. Maybe, maybe not.
>
> The manual for the Elecraft MH3 mic shows the wiring needed to work with the KX3.
>
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/MH3%20Rev%20A.pdf
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
>> On Jul 5, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Schumacher, Paul <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have a Neewer NW 800 mic that I want to use with a KX3. Anyone know
>>
>> how to wire it up?
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>>
>> Paul K0ZYV
>> ____________________________________________________

Jim Brown-10

Re: help wiring a mic?

In reply to this post by Schumacher, Paul

On 7/5/2018 3:27 PM, Schumacher, Paul wrote:
> I have a Neewer NW 800 mic that I want to use with a KX3.

This mic is intended for studio and recording work. It is a very poor
choice for ham radio.

73, Jim K9YC

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Sean Hayden

Re: help wiring a mic?

This is simply untrue Jim. Many hams use xlr connected microphones with
phantom power. A w2ihy iBox and a cheap behringer mixer will quickly
disprove your assertion. I know of many hams that use such setups for
broadcast AM transmitters moved to amateur radio frequencies.

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 12:51 AM Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 7/5/2018 3:27 PM, Schumacher, Paul wrote:
> > I have a Neewer NW 800 mic that I want to use with a KX3.
>
> This mic is intended for studio and recording work. It is a very poor
> choice for ham radio.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: help wiring a mic?

> This mic is intended for studio and recording work. It is a very poor
> choice for ham radio.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

I feel Jim's choice of the term "poor" is correct, but in a monetary sense.

Yes, you may be able to get the mike to communications quality with racks of
audio processing equipment etc.,
but you will probably spend more for all that when you add the cost of the
mike, than radio costs by itself.

Seem a tad wasteful to me when the radio already has a good EQ and a mike
costing a fraction of the fancy "studio" mike will sound the same on the
other end of the QSO.

I don't under the fascination (or logic?) of using a wide response and
expensive microphone just to narrow it down to 300 to 2800 Hz, unless you're
H3LL bent on putting out a 10 kHz wide VOA grade signal that is frankly,
illegal anyway.

Yeah, yeah I know, you're voice is "different" and you need all that stuff
to make it sound "right".
If that's what you want, then by all means go for it.
It's the same logic as using your (insert $200k car) to make daily commuter
runs mostly stuck in traffic.

73, Charlie k3ICH

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: help wiring a mic?

Operator mike technique is very important with regard to good to great audio.

I've found that my $20 Behringer 8500 sounds as good as my $100 Shure SM 58. Likewise my $200 Heil PR 781 needs for one to pay special attention to mike-to-mouth distance in order to control proximity effect.

Price and type do not assure one of "great audio". OTOH - I find most hand mikes supplied with radios sound "plastic" with various resonances and rattles and squeaks, noticeable on the air.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 6, 2018, at 6:48 AM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> This mic is intended for studio and recording work. It is a very poor
>> choice for ham radio.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> I feel Jim's choice of the term "poor" is correct, but in a monetary sense.
>
> Yes, you may be able to get the mike to communications quality with racks of
> audio processing equipment etc.,
> but you will probably spend more for all that when you add the cost of the
> mike, than radio costs by itself.
>
> Seem a tad wasteful to me when the radio already has a good EQ and a mike
> costing a fraction of the fancy "studio" mike will sound the same on the
> other end of the QSO.
>
> I don't under the fascination (or logic?) of using a wide response and
> expensive microphone just to narrow it down to 300 to 2800 Hz, unless you're
> H3LL bent on putting out a 10 kHz wide VOA grade signal that is frankly,
> illegal anyway.
>
> Yeah, yeah I know, you're voice is "different" and you need all that stuff
> to make it sound "right".
> If that's what you want, then by all means go for it.
> It's the same logic as using your (insert $200k car) to make daily commuter
> runs mostly stuck in traffic.
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: help wiring a mic?

>>> if you like the look of it and can power it, why not? <<<

Walter. Thank you! For approaching the question with an " Open Mind "!!!!!!!Many, many years ago, over 2000 years since, someone who happens to be a whole smarter than I, once said.
" Religion was made for Man, and not Man for Religion " end of quote!
Maybe, we should remind ourselves that this is just an Hobby!
HOBBY - An activity or interest, pursued for pleasure!Hence, lets adopt the ETHOS " Ham Radio was made for Man, and not Man for Ham Radio "Just my $0.02 worth.
(((73))) Milverton / W9MMS.

On Friday, July 6, 2018, 10:05:41 AM CDT, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> wrote:

I looked up the mic on Amazon, and it is a $20 studio look-alike. I’m sure it has a twenty-five cent electret element under all that stuff, but cheap electret mics are very good.

So it probably is a decent mic and it isn’t too expensive. If you like the look of it and can power it, why not? The detailed info on Amazon says it works with 5 V bias. One reviewer says the response rolls off under 150 Hz, which would be good for communications use.

https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Professional-Broadcasting-Recording-Microphone/dp/B00XBQ8UGG/

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jul 6, 2018, at 5:16 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Operator mike technique is very important with regard to good to great audio.
>
> I've found that my $20 Behringer 8500 sounds as good as my $100 Shure SM 58. Likewise my $200 Heil PR 781 needs for one to pay special attention to mike-to-mouth distance in order to control proximity effect.
>
> Price and type do not assure one of "great audio". OTOH - I find most hand mikes supplied with radios sound "plastic" with various resonances and rattles and squeaks, noticeable on the air.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 6, 2018, at 6:48 AM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> This mic is intended for studio and recording work. It is a very poor
>>> choice for ham radio.
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>>
>> I feel Jim's choice of the term "poor" is correct, but in a monetary sense.
>>
>> Yes, you may be able to get the mike to communications quality with racks of
>> audio processing equipment etc.,
>> but you will probably spend more for all that when you add the cost of the
>> mike, than radio costs by itself.
>>
>> Seem a tad wasteful to me when the radio already has a good EQ and a mike
>> costing a fraction of the fancy "studio" mike will sound the same on the
>> other end of the QSO.
>>
>> I don't under the fascination (or logic?) of using a wide response and
>> expensive microphone just to narrow it down to 300 to 2800 Hz, unless you're
>> H3LL bent on putting out a 10 kHz wide VOA grade signal that is frankly,
>> illegal anyway.
>>
>> Yeah, yeah I know, you're voice is "different" and you need all that stuff
>> to make it sound "right".
>> If that's what you want, then by all means go for it.
>> It's the same logic as using your (insert $200k car) to make daily commuter
>> runs mostly stuck in traffic.
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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ke9uw

Re: help wiring a mic?

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

What is the "legal" bandwidth allowed on amateur radio?

Chuck
KE9UW
________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Charlie T [[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2018 6:48 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] help wiring a mic?

> This mic is intended for studio and recording work. It is a very poor
> choice for ham radio.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

snip
I don't under the fascination (or logic?) of using a wide response and
expensive microphone just to narrow it down to 300 to 2800 Hz, unless you're
H3LL bent on putting out a 10 kHz wide VOA grade signal that is frankly,
illegal anyway.
snip
73, Charlie k3ICH

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Chuck, KE9UW

Jim Brown-10

Re: help wiring a mic?

In reply to this post by Sean Hayden

On 7/6/2018 2:10 AM, Sean Hayden wrote:
> This is simply untrue Jim. Many hams use xlr connected microphones
> with phantom power. A w2ihy iBox and a cheap behringer mixer will
> quickly disprove your assertion. I know of many hams that use such
> setups for broadcast AM transmitters moved to amateur radio frequencies.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Of course you can throw
money at the problem by buying these products. A fool and his money are
easily separated. :)

Very good sounding mics built into gaming headsets like the Yamaha CM500
and a similar Koss model plug straight into the K3 and KX3 and sound great.

I looked up this mic and tried to find specs. There's nothing there --
it's all silly putty. Every place I looked said something different.
:) There's no response graph, not even a description of what connector
is used and how it is wired! Inside that mic is a cheap (maybe a buck)
electret capsule. The shiny enclosure is simply designed to facilitate
the separation process noted above.

I'm retired from a career in pro audio, A Fellow of the Audio
Engineering Society, and have a closet full of REAL pro mics that I use
for recording music. The only one I'd consider using (and have used) for
ham radio is an RE16, a variable-D dynamic with a good blast filter. I
used it because, at the time, I didn't have anything better, because the
variable-D construction eliminates the LF boost of proximity effect,
and, because it's a dynamic, all I had to do was solder up a cable to a
connector that mated with the rig.

List members K4TAX and W4TV are also retired broadcast engineers, and
I'm sure there are others.

73, Jim K9YC

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alorona

Re: help wiring a mic?

In reply to this post by Schumacher, Paul

The poor guy who started this thread just wanted to know how to wire a mic. It quickly became a discussion of whether he should even use that mic. I don't believe we have that right. The question is about an XLR connector. We should either answer his question or lay out.

Al W6LX
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Bill-4

Re: help wiring a mic?

Al, you are so right. I have been victimized by some of these folks in
the past. I asked a question and was flamed on and off list. Not a
friendly bunch!

Go to this site, and just a few lines down is your answer (I hope):

http://www.qsl.net/g4wpw/date.html

Good luck and best wishes with your new mic. I hope you enjoy it to its
fullest.

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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ke9uw

Re: help wiring a mic?

I thought that too. Lectures on everything but the tech.

Chuck KE9UW
[hidden email]

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 6, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Bill <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Al, you are so right. I have been victimized by some of these folks in the past. I asked a question and was flamed on and off list. Not a friendly bunch!
>
> Go to this site, and just a few lines down is your answer (I hope):
>
> http://www.qsl.net/g4wpw/date.html
>
> Good luck and best wishes with your new mic. I hope you enjoy it to its fullest.
>
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Chuck, KE9UW

wayne burdick

Re: help wiring a mic?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Bill-4

Overall this is one of the most civilized ham forums out there, or so we’ve been told hundreds of times.

But it’s easy for many of us to occasionally get defensive, testy, or even indignant when our long-held beliefs are challenged. Myself included. It doesn’t mean we're not sincerely trying to help.

The only way people on *any* list can get along is to be forgiving. We’ve all said things we wished we could take back. We feel even worse when things escalate for reasons having nothing to do with the original thread.

My advice:

If you’re turning red and slapping the keys hard when you respond to something--on this list, or anywhere else--wait a few minutes. Take a breath.

Help us keep things fun and interesting here.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Jim Brown-10

Re: help wiring a mic?

In reply to this post by Bill-4

On 7/6/2018 12:53 PM, Bill wrote:
> Al, you are so right. I have been victimized by some of these folks in
> the past. I asked a question and was flamed on and off list.

My response was NOT a flame. Saving someone $400 dollars is FRIENDLY
ADVICE, not criticism. I took the trouble to search for a data sheet for
the mic, found nothing that would even tell me what connector was used,
what powering configuration it had, or how the mic was wired.

Pro electret mics used a balanced form of powering called "phantom," and
must work into a circuit that feeds + to both sides of a balanced output
and negative to the shield. The electret mics used with unbalanced
inputs get their bias in a very different way. The two systems are NOT
compatible, and phantom power is built into preamps and mixers. W2IHY
has built this into his 8-band equalizer. At $299, it's the lowest cost
box I could find on his website that does it. AND -- if you have a K3,
K3S, KX2, or KX3 there's a VERY good equalizer built in, so you're
spending $299 plus shipping on the mic interface.

Bottom line -- with these radios, you don't need anything that W2IHY sells.

If you must use a pro (balanced) electret mic with ham gear, Radio
Design Labs sells some relatively low cost mic preamps, but by the time
you buy the preamp and the power supply(ies) you've spent some bucks
there too.

http://www.rdlnet.com/search.php?searchquery=mic+preamp

But we don't know which powering interface the mic uses -- nothing I've
found on the internet tells me. IF there is access to the capsule
itself, it can be wired directly to the KX3 input.

73, Jim K9YC

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k6dgw

Re: help wiring a mic?

In reply to this post by ke9uw

It depends on the emission type. From 47CFR97.307:

"(a) No amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than
necessary for the information rate and emission type being transmitted,
in accordance with good amateur practice."

At 97.307, there follow numerous specific limits on spurious emissions,
limits on various forms of angle modulation, and an [in]famous symbol
rate limit of 300 on data emissions. Thus:

If you're transmitting voice using AM, an occupied bandwidth of between
5 and 6 KHz would be compliant [nominal 0-2.5 KHz audio BW]. For SSB,
it would be roughly 2.5-3.0 KHz. If you're transmitting CW, the
occupied bandwidth would need to be something around 0.1 KHz. A data
transmission could occupy any BW so long as its symbol rate remains at
or below 300.

The rules are a little ambiguous as a result of the phrase, "for the
information rate and emission type being transmitted". If ESSB is
considered to be an independent emission type, then it is compliant ...
it fills the BW it was intended to. If it is considered to be a form of
standard, communications-quality SSB, then it may not totally compliant.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 7/6/2018 9:16 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
> What is the "legal" bandwidth allowed on amateur radio?
>
> Chuck
> KE9UW
>

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Grant Youngman-2

Re: help wiring a mic?

Can we please not start the bandwidth discussion (er, wars?), yet again?

Perhaps it’s time to help the poor fellow wire his mic? Which is all he asked. Maybe we can’t do that. Fine. It’ll probably work out of the box. And even if it doesn’t, it’s $20 … for goodness sake. Cheaper than an Elecraft hand mic (which are perfectly good microphones, actually, and have no “plastic" sound to them that I’ve ever discerned).

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342

>
> If you're transmitting voice using AM, an occupied bandwidth of between 5 and 6 KHz would be compliant [nominal 0-2.5 KHz audio BW]. For SSB, it would be roughly 2.5-3.0 KHz.
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W2xj

Re: help wiring a mic?

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

True, Wayne

This list has been excessively active over the very long weekend. Also, hostility on a number of discussions. Maybe too much holiday cheer?

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 6, 2018, at 4:31 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Overall this is one of the most civilized ham forums out there, or so we’ve been told hundreds of times.
>
> But it’s easy for many of us to occasionally get defensive, testy, or even indignant when our long-held beliefs are challenged. Myself included. It doesn’t mean we're not sincerely trying to help.
>
> The only way people on *any* list can get along is to be forgiving. We’ve all said things we wished we could take back. We feel even worse when things escalate for reasons having nothing to do with the original thread.
>
> My advice:
>
> If you’re turning red and slapping the keys hard when you respond to something--on this list, or anywhere else--wait a few minutes. Take a breath.
>
> Help us keep things fun and interesting here.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

ke9uw

Re: help wiring a mic?

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Good answer. A friend once petitioned the FCC to disallow AM. The answer he got from the FCC was that Amateur Radio was an experimental medium and as such, disallowing emission types was counterintuitive.

The word experimental tends to question some of the hard and fast rules that come up from time to time..

Chuck
Amateur Radio, KE9UW
________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Fred Jensen [[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2018 4:10 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] help wiring a mic?

It depends on the emission type. From 47CFR97.307:

"(a) No amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than
necessary for the information rate and emission type being transmitted,
in accordance with good amateur practice."

At 97.307, there follow numerous specific limits on spurious emissions,
limits on various forms of angle modulation, and an [in]famous symbol
rate limit of 300 on data emissions. Thus:

If you're transmitting voice using AM, an occupied bandwidth of between
5 and 6 KHz would be compliant [nominal 0-2.5 KHz audio BW]. For SSB,
it would be roughly 2.5-3.0 KHz. If you're transmitting CW, the
occupied bandwidth would need to be something around 0.1 KHz. A data
transmission could occupy any BW so long as its symbol rate remains at
or below 300.

The rules are a little ambiguous as a result of the phrase, "for the
information rate and emission type being transmitted". If ESSB is
considered to be an independent emission type, then it is compliant ...
it fills the BW it was intended to. If it is considered to be a form of
standard, communications-quality SSB, then it may not totally compliant.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 7/6/2018 9:16 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
> What is the "legal" bandwidth allowed on amateur radio?
>
> Chuck
> KE9UW
>

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Chuck, KE9UW

Bill Frantz

[OT] Legal Data Bandwidths

In reply to this post by k6dgw

[Thread renamed to have some relation to the discussion.]

This rule allows some really interesting options. As I
understand "symbol rate" it is the rate at which the signal
changes from one symbol (BAUD) to another. What is not limited
is the number of bits sent with each symbol.

To present an example I hope never to see on the air, on 15M we
are permitted to send digital data between 21.0 to 21.2 MHz.
Someone could come up with a digital mode that used 200 KHz of
bandwidth and use up all the digital allocation on 15M. It would
have to remain within the symbol rate limitation, but it could
send many bits with each symbol. The performance might be quite
spectacular with the right choice of data rate, forward error
correction, and error checking.

The ARRL recommended to the FCC that modes be regulated by
bandwidth, and not just the mode. The FCC said no. However, that
kind of regulation would solve this problem.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 7/6/18 at 2:10 PM, [hidden email] (Fred Jensen) wrote:

>A data transmission could occupy any BW so long as its symbol
>rate remains at or below 300.

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Bill Frantz | "The only thing we have to | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | fear is fear itself." - FDR | 16345
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CA 95032

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Ron Genovesi

Re: help wiring a mic?

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Kind of make you wonder. Just how many questions don’t get asked. I know I’ve been on this reflector for a while now and have yet to dare ask anyone anything.
If you use the wrong punctuation or mis-spell something! You could get lynched or tarred and feathered and run out of town.
We won’t even broach the subject of differing opinions.
Ron Genovesi
N3ETA
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2018, at 8:00 AM, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I looked up the mic on Amazon, and it is a $20 studio look-alike. I’m sure it has a twenty-five cent electret element under all that stuff, but cheap electret mics are very good.
>
> So it probably is a decent mic and it isn’t too expensive. If you like the look of it and can power it, why not? The detailed info on Amazon says it works with 5 V bias. One reviewer says the response rolls off under 150 Hz, which would be good for communications use.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Professional-Broadcasting-Recording-Microphone/dp/B00XBQ8UGG/
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
>> On Jul 6, 2018, at 5:16 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Operator mike technique is very important with regard to good to great audio.
>>
>> I've found that my $20 Behringer 8500 sounds as good as my $100 Shure SM 58. Likewise my $200 Heil PR 781 needs for one to pay special attention to mike-to-mouth distance in order to control proximity effect.
>>
>> Price and type do not assure one of "great audio". OTOH - I find most hand mikes supplied with radios sound "plastic" with various resonances and rattles and squeaks, noticeable on the air.
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 6, 2018, at 6:48 AM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>> This mic is intended for studio and recording work. It is a very poor
>>>> choice for ham radio.
>>>>
>>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>>>
>>> I feel Jim's choice of the term "poor" is correct, but in a monetary sense.
>>>
>>> Yes, you may be able to get the mike to communications quality with racks of
>>> audio processing equipment etc.,
>>> but you will probably spend more for all that when you add the cost of the
>>> mike, than radio costs by itself.
>>>
>>> Seem a tad wasteful to me when the radio already has a good EQ and a mike
>>> costing a fraction of the fancy "studio" mike will sound the same on the
>>> other end of the QSO.
>>>
>>> I don't under the fascination (or logic?) of using a wide response and
>>> expensive microphone just to narrow it down to 300 to 2800 Hz, unless you're
>>> H3LL bent on putting out a 10 kHz wide VOA grade signal that is frankly,
>>> illegal anyway.
>>>
>>> Yeah, yeah I know, you're voice is "different" and you need all that stuff
>>> to make it sound "right".
>>> If that's what you want, then by all means go for it.
>>> It's the same logic as using your (insert $200k car) to make daily commuter
>>> runs mostly stuck in traffic.
>>>
>>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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