k2--C167

[wsm-3]

HI
I'm a little confused, which is not unusual for me, on the last
item on page 50 of the assemble manual for the K2.
It says - Install C167 (.001 uf "102") which is near J11, the
connector for the SSB adapter. The leads on this capacitor should
be formed to match its PC board outline.
The un-module manual say don't install C167 and install a jumper
at J11.
I'm inclined to believe that it is saying to install a jumper instead
of C-167. Is this correct. Sure would hate to smoke a PCB by putting
a jumper where it shouldn't be.
Any help would be appreciated.
Scott N5SM


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[Don Wilhelm-3]

Scott,

Do not install anything at C167.  With the Rework Eliminators, you should
find a header for J11 - install that, and the jumper they are referring to
is on the board that plugs into that J11 header.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----
>
> HI
> I'm a little confused, which is not unusual for me, on the last
> item on page 50 of the assemble manual for the K2.
> It says - Install C167 (.001 uf "102") which is near J11, the
> connector for the SSB adapter. The leads on this capacitor should
> be formed to match its PC board outline.
> The un-module manual say don't install C167 and install a jumper
> at J11.
> I'm inclined to believe that it is saying to install a jumper instead
> of C-167. Is this correct. Sure would hate to smoke a PCB by putting
> a jumper where it shouldn't be.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Scott N5SM
>
>

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[Tom Zeltwanger]

OK I just have to ask:
What the heck are Rework Eliminators?

I am just starting a K2/100, and will be building it for some time. In the mean
time, I have been watching this list (an outstanding resoucer, I might add), and
Rework Eliminators come up from time to time. I am dying to know what they are,
and if they are something I need to help with my move into K2 land.

73,

Tom KG3V


Quoting Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>:

> Scott,
>
> Do not install anything at C167.  With the Rework Eliminators, you should
> find a header for J11 - install that, and the jumper they are referring to
> is on the board that plugs into that J11 header.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > HI
> > I'm a little confused, which is not unusual for me, on the last
> > item on page 50 of the assemble manual for the K2.
> > It says - Install C167 (.001 uf "102") which is near J11, the
> > connector for the SSB adapter. The leads on this capacitor should
> > be formed to match its PC board outline.
> > The un-module manual say don't install C167 and install a jumper
> > at J11.
> > I'm inclined to believe that it is saying to install a jumper instead
> > of C-167. Is this correct. Sure would hate to smoke a PCB by putting
> > a jumper where it shouldn't be.
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> > Scott N5SM
> >
> >
>
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[Mike Short]

Tom,

They are listed at the bottom of the Elecraft website. I put them in my K2,
and they are great.
What they are is a board that plugs in to the connectors for the various
option modules, KSB2, KNB2, KAF2, etc.
By following the instructions with the eliminators, you will install the
various components and jumpers required to make
The option work. When you are finished, all you need to do to install an
option is simply unplug the option header board and plug
In the module you just finished. No disassembly of the K2 is required, as
all modules plug in to the top of the boards.
You can do them as you assemble the K2, or go back after it is finished and
install them. They are great for troubleshooting, since all you need to do
is unplug the suspect module and verify operation. I had an issue with my
KSB2 board, and it was great to be able to simply unplug it. If you do not
have the rework eliminators installed you must solder in jumpers, and other
steps to remove a module.

Mike
AI4NS


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[Tom Zeltwanger]

Thanks for the info. I guess I have something else to buy for my kit already.

Tom


Quoting Mike Short <[hidden email]>:

> Tom,
>
> They are listed at the bottom of the Elecraft website. I put them in my K2,
> and they are great.
> What they are is a board that plugs in to the connectors for the various
> option modules, KSB2, KNB2, KAF2, etc.
> By following the instructions with the eliminators, you will install the
> various components and jumpers required to make
> The option work. When you are finished, all you need to do to install an
> option is simply unplug the option header board and plug
> In the module you just finished. No disassembly of the K2 is required, as
> all modules plug in to the top of the boards.
> You can do them as you assemble the K2, or go back after it is finished and
> install them. They are great for troubleshooting, since all you need to do
> is unplug the suspect module and verify operation. I had an issue with my
> KSB2 board, and it was great to be able to simply unplug it. If you do not
>

have the rework eliminators installed you must solder in jumpers, and other

> steps to remove a module.
>
> Mike
> AI4NS
>
>
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[Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone]]

I've found the audio filter/DSP one to be very convenient when doing work
on the front panel/control boards, since things can be tested without
having to reassemble that stack, or probed behind where it would be.

73, doug

   From: "Mike Short" <[hidden email]>
   Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:23:28 -0600

   Tom,

   They are listed at the bottom of the Elecraft website. I put them in my K2,
   and they are great.
   What they are is a board that plugs in to the connectors for the various
   option modules, KSB2, KNB2, KAF2, etc.

   You can do them as you assemble the K2, or go back after it is finished and
   install them. They are great for troubleshooting, since all you need to do
   is unplug the suspect module and verify operation. I had an issue with my
   KSB2 board, and it was great to be able to simply unplug it. If you do not
   have the rework eliminators installed you must solder in jumpers, and other
   steps to remove a module.
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[Rob Locher W7GH]

Hi Tom,

Don't forget the Rework Eliminator web site at
http://www.unpcbs.com/ .  There is information
galore there.

73,
- Rob W7GH




On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:15:08 -0800, Tom Zeltwanger <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> OK I just have to ask:
> What the heck are Rework Eliminators?
>
> I am just starting a K2/100, and will be building it for some time. In  
> the mean
> time, I have been watching this list (an outstanding resoucer, I might  
> add), and
> Rework Eliminators come up from time to time. I am dying to know what  
> they are,
> and if they are something I need to help with my move into K2 land.
>
> 73,
>
> Tom KG3V

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[Tom Zeltwanger]

Sounds like a good idea, as I expect to be modifying and experimenting with this
radio. That is a big reason I bought a kit. So do you just buy the ones for the
options you expect to actually install at some point?

Also, if I bought the DSP filter and intend to install it, is the rework
elimnator still useful for using the rig without the DSP, or if I want to
install my own filter in place of the DSP filter?

Thanks,

Tom KG3V



Quoting Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone] <[hidden email]>:

> I've found the audio filter/DSP one to be very convenient when doing work
> on the front panel/control boards, since things can be tested without
> having to reassemble that stack, or probed behind where it would be.
>
> 73, doug
>
>    From: "Mike Short" <[hidden email]>
>    Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:23:28 -0600
>
>    Tom,
>
>    They are listed at the bottom of the Elecraft website. I put them in my
> K2,
>    and they are great.
>    What they are is a board that plugs in to the connectors for the various
>    option modules, KSB2, KNB2, KAF2, etc.
>
>    You can do them as you assemble the K2, or go back after it is finished
> and
>    install them. They are great for troubleshooting, since all you need to
> do
>    is unplug the suspect module and verify operation. I had an issue with my
>    KSB2 board, and it was great to be able to simply unplug it. If you do
> not
>    have the rework eliminators installed you must solder in jumpers, and
> other
>    steps to remove a module.
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>

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[Don Wilhelm-3]

Folks,

IM(not so)HO, Rework eliminators are fine for those options that you DO NOT
intend to install initially (except for the K60XV).  For those options that
you order with your K2, the parts to install these options are included with
the option kits and the K2 manual tells you when to install the 'hooks' for
these options.  Your ability to test the K2 according to the manual
instructions is compromised with the Rework Eliminators because you must
coordinate two sets of instructions to get the task accomplished.  The easy
and safe path is to simply follow the K2 manual instructions without
installing the Rework Eliminators.

The K60XV option is a bit on the 'strange side'.  If you install the parts
for the K60XV option according to the Rework Eliminator instructions
(especially the change on C71 and the addition of D19 and D20), the entire
character of the K2 VFO circuit changes.  The VFO voltages measured at R30
will change, and since the K2 cannot be tuned to 5300 kHz from the 60 meter
band until the K60XV is actually installed, you end up with a K2 that cannot
be fully aligned in a proper manner - and you must re-visit the alignment
when the K60XV is actually available (so much for the 'plug and play' ads).

For problem 'chasing' on options that you have purchased with the K2, there
are easy to implement jumpers that can be placed into the option headers
with a couple capacitors and a few jumper wires (the Rework Eliminator
boards are too large IMHO to allow complete access to all probing points in
the K2).  Specifically the KDSP2 can be substituted with 2 jumpers that take
the place of the R18 and R19 zero ohm 'resistors'.  The KSB2 requires 2 wire
jumpers in place of W2 and W3 and one .001 uF capacitor in place of C167
stuck into the KSB2 headers.  The KNB2 is the one exception, because a
proper termination requires a 6 dB pad to be installed at the header.  Yes,
a simple wire jumper in place of W5 will substitute for the 6 dB pad in most
cases, but the termination for the Post-Mixer Amplifier will not be quite
correct and the receiver IMD will suffer a bit, but for most testing
purposes, a straight jumper will do the job fine - just do not attempt IMD
measurements without the proper 6 dB pad.

All in all, I regard the Rework Eliminators as a waste of money and an
inconvenience for most builders.  As I said, the K60XV rework eliminator
inclusion can lead to a number of problems and I trust that those problems
with the K60XV are now identified in the documentation with the Rework
Eliminator instructions - I have had correspondence with the Rework
Eliminator folks on this subject, and they did say they would address the
situation, but I have no information on the outcome of those discussions.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Also, if I bought the DSP filter and intend to install it, is the rework
> elimnator still useful for using the rig without the DSP, or if I want to
> install my own filter in place of the DSP filter?
>
>

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[ni0c]

Tom, KG3V wrote: "So do you just buy the ones for the
options you expect to actually install at some point?

Also, if I bought the DSP filter and intend to install it, is the rework
elimnator still useful for using the rig without the DSP, or if I want to
install my own filter in place of the DSP filter?"


I'm a new K2 kit builder working my way up the learning curve.  I'm incorporating the rework eliminators as I'm assembling my K-2.

The way I see it, the rework eliminators provide advantages for all K2 owners and builders:

1.) If you are building a new K2, the rework eliminators will help you to test your basic K2 before you install options, then allow you to just plug in your selected options.

2.) If you have an existing K2 and want to add options, the unmodules will allow you to remove the options for troubleshooting and maintenance.

3.) If you are thinking of re-selling your K2 at sometime in the future (I am not!) incorporating the unmodules may make your rig more desirable to a buyer who wishes to add options.  

I think the advantages are particularly weighty for new builders like myself who purchased a number of options with the new K2 kit.

73,
Chuck  NI0C
 

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[Ron D'Eau Claire-2]

Anyone building a K2 with the rework eliminators should read carefully Don,
W3FPR's warnings about how installing them will cause you to have to make
extensive changes to some of the K2 test and alignment procedures.

If you want to remove a module at some point it's "dirt simple" without the
rework eliminators. It involves fashioning a jumper or two out of some old
clipped resistor leads to fit in the open connectors left when you pull the
module. In one or two cases, the jumper is made with a supplied fixed
capacitor. My S/N 1289 built in 2000 has been torn down and rebuilt so often
I've lost count. It's been a test bed for a number of the K2 mods and
improvements over the years.

Ron AC7AC


-----Original Message-----

Tom, KG3V wrote: "So do you just buy the ones for the
options you expect to actually install at some point?

Also, if I bought the DSP filter and intend to install it, is the rework
elimnator still useful for using the rig without the DSP, or if I want to
install my own filter in place of the DSP filter?"


I'm a new K2 kit builder working my way up the learning curve.  I'm
incorporating the rework eliminators as I'm assembling my K-2.

The way I see it, the rework eliminators provide advantages for all K2
owners and builders:

1.) If you are building a new K2, the rework eliminators will help you to
test your basic K2 before you install options, then allow you to just plug
in your selected options.

2.) If you have an existing K2 and want to add options, the unmodules will
allow you to remove the options for troubleshooting and maintenance.

3.) If you are thinking of re-selling your K2 at sometime in the future (I
am not!) incorporating the unmodules may make your rig more desirable to a
buyer who wishes to add options.  

I think the advantages are particularly weighty for new builders like myself
who purchased a number of options with the new K2 kit.

73,
Chuck  NI0C
 

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[ni0c]

To Don and Ron and others:

When I wrote my last post, I was unaware of Don's latest post giving some of the caveats with regard to the Rework eliminators.  

Certainly this is a very timely topic for me-- in the midst of my first K2 build, and following my latest goof (forgetting to install W6 and C6 on the RF board) that Don very kindly pointed out for me, just yesterday in fact!  

For the following reasons, my own K2 will incorporate only the rework eliminators (un-modules) for KDSP2 and K160RX:

1.) My rig will be CW only, without 60 meters.  
2.) I have purchased (and will install at the first opportunity) the KDSP2 and K160RX modules. Installing the un-modules for these will make it easy to just plug in the selected modules when the time comes.
3.) I sailed past the opportunity to install the un-module for the KNB2 (which I also have purchased).
4.) Last (but not least) there seem to be no alignement issues associated with these particular un-modules.

Thanks again for being here to help us out!  One of the reasons I chose to purchase a K2 was the fact that there are approaching 6000 of these units in service, and there is this body of experience to draw from.

73,
Chuck  NI0C



     
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[Gary Hvizdak]

Don wrote:

"... the K2 manual tells you when to install the 'hooks' for these options".


    Fully populating the K2 with options following the K2 assembly manual,
results in the need to remove 13 parts (seven jumper wires, three caps, and
three resistors).  In six cases other parts (three SIP connectors, one
resistor, one cap, and one jumper wire) must be installed in place of the
original parts which were removed.

    Given that soldering is the most common cause of problems, especially
intermittent ones, we feel that the elimination of PCB rework is highly
desirable.  PCB rework is no big deal if you have the proper tools (solder
wick should be avoided) and you are competent with them.  Unfortunately,
without both there is the all to likely possibility of lifting traces and/or

blowing out plated through holes.  (Please see our Builder Resources page
for it's link to an excellent resource on PCB rework.)

    For the options you do not initially purchase with you K2, the
alternative to our Duplicate K2 PCB Upgrade Parts kits is to disassemble the

K2, in many cases fairly extensively, in order to add, remove, or rework the

necessary K2 parts before installing the option.

                                --- - - - ---

    For those of you who are brand new to soldering (or rusty after several
decades), you won't find a less expensive place to start out than our header

kit.  Actually ... we still have some of our original rev. D boards.  While
supplies last, if you email Ken when you order our header kit and request
one, he will gladly include (at no charge), one of our original rev. D
boards along with the three resistors required to populate the UN-KNB2.

                                --- - - - ---

    A few notes of caution for those of you considering making your own un-
module devices from jumper wires ...

1) The silkscreen for W1 (adjacent to RF-J14) makes it appear that W1 goes
between pins J14-1 and J14-6 but it doesn't!  Installing it there by mistake

would ground the antenna!  Besides not being able to receive anything,
grounding the antenna could result in blown PA transistors were you to
attempt to transmit.

2)  For those who don't initially purchase the Noise Blanker, or for those
of you taking your time to build and install it, the use of a jumper wire
(rather than the original 150 ohm 5 dB attenuator) to bypass it, is probably

not a good long-term solution.

73, Happy Holidays, & Happy Kit Building,
Gary, KI4GGX, K2 #4067
http://www.unpcbs.com/ 

              Rework Eliminator, Rework Eliminators, and unpcbs
                are trademarks of Ken Kaplan and Gary Hvizdak

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[Darwin, Keith]

Wow Don & Ron, I'm shocked.

Such heavy hitters coming down so hard against the Rework Eliminators
(RE).

As a novice builder, I built a bare-bones K2 with full RE.  I spent the
time going through the RE instructions and writing changes into the K2
manual prior to beginning the kit.  Then I just followed the red-lined
K2 manual for building and aligning.  There were NO issues.  Everything
worked first time.  No funny alignment stuff that I recall.  Just
smooth.

Since then I've added the AF option.  I unplugged the header board,
plugged in the KAF2 and was up and running with no additional mods to
the K2 boards.  I recently swapped the AF for the DSP.  Again, it was
plug and play.  Now I've removed the DSP and am again operating the rig
with just the header board.

Without the RE, what would I have done?  First, I'd have to rework the
K2 to add the parts for the  KAF2.  Then, after deciding I don't want to
use either the KAF2 or the KDSP2, I'd have to either rework the board to
remove the parts I added or I'd have to dangle a jumper wire across pins
on the connectors.  I don't like either of those approaches.  The other
approach is I just leave the KAF2 in there in bypass mode.  This is what
I suspect most K2 owners do.  Buy an option, install it, never take it
out.

I also added the SSB option.  For K2 mods, I had to rework two crystal
grounding leads and had to put the shorting jumpers across the mic
configuration header.  That was it.  KSB2 plugged in and is working
fine.  If I decide to be CW only, I can swap the SSB module for the
header boards and I'm in business.

I'm part way through the KPA100 build and so far, every single K2 mod
that the manual has called for I've been able to skip since those steps
were done during the initial K2 build.

Certainly I don't have the experience or credibility of you two
gentlemen, but I do have my own experience, and for me and my needs, as
far as I can tell so far, the Rework Eliminators have been money very
well spent.

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb -

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:12 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Rework Eliminators

Anyone building a K2 with the rework eliminators should read carefully
Don, W3FPR's warnings about how installing them will cause you to have
to make extensive changes to some of the K2 test and alignment
procedures.

If you want to remove a module at some point it's "dirt simple" without
the rework eliminators. It involves fashioning a jumper or two out of
some old clipped resistor leads to fit in the open connectors left when
you pull the module. In one or two cases, the jumper is made with a
supplied fixed capacitor. My S/N 1289 built in 2000 has been torn down
and rebuilt so often I've lost count. It's been a test bed for a number
of the K2 mods and improvements over the years.

Ron AC7AC

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[wayne burdick]

Gary and company have done a very professional job on the
"Eliminators." Some builders will find them useful. On the other hand,
Elecraft's documentation and staging of construction is consistent and
carefully planned, so they are not a necessity.

It's clear that builders can successfully complete the K2 using either
method.

Here's my recommendation:

-  If the notion of plug-in substitutes for future options strongly
appeals to you, and you don't mind *carefully* following the additional
set of instructions that comes with them, then by all means consider
this method.

-  If you'd prefer to minimize the amount of documentation you have to
deal with in building a kit, then stick with the Elecraft manuals. If
you're capable of building a K2, then you certainly won't have any
trouble adding options "our" way.

Disclaimer: I'm the principle designer of the K2 and wrote most of the
manuals, so I could be biased. You decide  :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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[Elliott Lawrence]

The pin jumpers are available from places like All Electronics for 50 cents
for a 40 pin header.  Cut the header into appropriate lengths and solder
jumper wires and caps/resistors across the correct pins.  Put the jumpers
for the each mod in a small envelope appropriately marked and ready for use
if necessary.

I can't see spending big bucks when $2 will do for something you will rarely
use!! It really is that easy.

73
Elliott WA6TLA

----- Original Message -----
From: "wayne burdick" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:28 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Rework Eliminators: when to use them, and why

> Gary and company have done a very professional job on the "Eliminators."
> Some builders will find them useful. On the other hand, Elecraft's
> documentation and staging of construction is consistent and carefully
> planned, so they are not a necessity.
>
> It's clear that builders can successfully complete the K2 using either
> method.
>
> Here's my recommendation:
>
> -  If the notion of plug-in substitutes for future options strongly
> appeals to you, and you don't mind *carefully* following the additional
> set of instructions that comes with them, then by all means consider this
> method.
>
> -  If you'd prefer to minimize the amount of documentation you have to
> deal with in building a kit, then stick with the Elecraft manuals. If
> you're capable of building a K2, then you certainly won't have any trouble
> adding options "our" way.
>
> Disclaimer: I'm the principle designer of the K2 and wrote most of the
> manuals, so I could be biased. You decide  :)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
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[Darwin, Keith]

-----Original Message-----
From: wayne burdick

> -  If the notion of plug-in substitutes for future options
> strongly appeals to you, and you don't mind *carefully*
> following the additional set of instructions that comes with
> them, then by all means consider this method.

This is a KEY point.  The Rework Eliminators present a sizeable
documentation challenge.  You'll spent significant time making hand
edits to the K2 manual to put all the changes in.  It took me something
like 2-3 hours to mod my manual.  Then, during building you have to
follow the modified manual to a T.  For me it was well worth it and went
smooth as silk.  If you try to merge the instructions on the fly while
you build you're asking for issues.


>  -  If you'd prefer to minimize the amount of documentation you
> have to deal with in building a kit, then stick with the Elecraft
> manuals. If you're capable of building a K2, then you certainly won't
> have any trouble adding options "our" way.

An advantage here is that you maintain full warranty support by staying
within the Elecraft domain.  Of course, you'll be reworking the K2
boards with each mod.  It's not tough, but it is rework.  I'd say if
you're going this way, some rework tools may be in order.

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb -
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[Ron D'Eau Claire-2]

Keith N1AS wrote:

Wow Don & Ron, I'm shocked.

Such heavy hitters coming down so hard against the Rework Eliminators (RE).

---------------------------------------------------------

I surprised that you'd consider my recommendation to read Don's comments as
coming down hard on the RE product.

Don spends a lot of time working with builders here on the reflector who
have problems and I've noticed that a number of those problems are, as he
says, based on someone using the RE product without realizing how they can
change the test and alignment process.

I thought his comments were pretty solidly based on facts and expressed
fairly. I've worked with Don on many projects and learned to trust in his
expertise.

I agree that my observation that removing a few jumpers if and when I
decided to add a module, or fashioning a couple of simple jumpers to plug
into the header if I want to remove a module is my opinion. That was my
point: to call such simple activities "reworking" is, to me, a huge
overstatement.

However, there are those who want to button up the rig once and avoid
touching a soldering iron to the PCB ever again unless something fails, and
there are those who have their rigs built and don't want to think about
doing anything inside them involving more than plugging or unplugging a
cable or module to make changes. Even fashioning a little jumper and pushing
it into the proper holes in the connector if they decide to remove a module
is more than they want to do.

>From the notes on the reflector I've read, the RE product is a great help
for those owners; its success definitely suggests the RE product is
appreciated by a significant number of owners.

But the RE product is not a panacea. There are issues involved in buying and
using them, especially if one does it as part of the original build
depending upon the configuration of their rig. Don is the one who can advise
about those in detail.

Ron AC7AC

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[Craig Rairdin]

> The pin jumpers are available from places like All Electronics for 50
> cents for a 40 pin header.  Cut the header into appropriate lengths
> and solder jumper wires and caps/resistors across the correct pins.  
> Put the jumpers for the each mod in a small envelope appropriately
> marked and ready for use if necessary.

> I can't see spending big bucks when $2 will do for something you will
> rarely use!! It really is that easy.

I just opened my K2 up for the first time in a year or so to install the
160m option. It took almost no time to build the 160m board (about ten
parts) but it took quite a while to remove the top and bottom covers (being
careful not to lose the mounting hardware for the finals, which I didn't
realize until little screws and washers started falling out all over the
place), remove a jumper, check the value of two caps (didn't have to change
those), install three more caps, install the header, install the receive
antenna connector, install the board, and solder the jumpers to the receive
antenna. Then I had to replace the bottom cover, being careful to get the
heat sink mounting hardware correct again (non-trivial and required digging
out the K2 construction manual and reviewing the instructions for mounting
the finals, which is spread over two or three sections of the text) and
replace the top cover.

I own the Rework Eliminators but by the time they came out I was down to
just a couple options left to install so I've never bothered to install the
RE boards. However, I can definitely see the value of doing the RE
installation while building a new K2. Even if you install all the options
shortly after building the K2, there is a lot of detailed disassembly
required. The longer you wait the more you forget about how things go
together, making it more difficult to efficiently disassemble the radio.

For many of us, removing components is a real PITA. I was fortunate to
stumble onto a good price for a desoldering station and it has been worth
every penny even for just the dozen or so times I've had to use it while
building a K2 and KX1.

Your argument is sound, but it doesn't cover all the bases. First, you're
right that the DIY price may be only a few dollars. But you assume that all
of us have a deep junk drawer with all the random caps and resistors that
are required. You also assume that we're all clever enough (or have enough
time) to figure out what to jumper and where to add a cap to create our own
replacement modules.

Your argument that the RE modules are "big bucks" misses the fact that less
than $40 to buy a complete set of RE headers and parts is pretty miniscule
compared to $1800 for a fully-loaded K2/100. (And $1800 for a fully loaded
K2/100 is pretty miniscule compared to the competition.)

My point isn't so much that you're wrong, but rather that this isn't as
cut-and-dried as you seem to indicate. I agree that upgrading the K2 isn't a
huge problem, but there are many complicating factors that can make it
difficult enough that spending $40 up front isn't a bad idea. It's neither
expensive nor complicated.

Craig
NZ0R
K2/100 #4941
K1 #1966
KX1 #1499

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[Darwin, Keith]

 

-----Original Message----->
From: Ron D'Eau Claire

I surprised that you'd consider my recommendation to read Don's comments
as coming down hard on the RE product.

Don spends a lot of time working with builders here on the reflector who
have problems and I've noticed that a number of those problems are, as
he says, based on someone using the RE product without realizing how
they can change the test and alignment process.
<--------------------------

IIRC, Don called the rework eliminators a waste of money for most K2
builders.  He also said the alignment procedures change if you use them.
You're recommendation to read Don's post was a sort of "endorsement" of
what Don said so that's how you got drug into this :-)



---------------------------->
I thought his comments were pretty solidly based on facts and expressed
fairly. I've worked with Don on many projects and learned to trust in
his expertise.
<---------------------------

Yes, Don is great, solid, factual.  I agree.  That is why it was so
shocking to me to see him speak strongly against something that in my
experience very positive.  If it was just about any other person on the
list, we could just dismiss the comments meaningless, but this is Don
we're talking about.  And then Ron (another very knowledgeable,
trustworthy contributor) backs them up.  Wow.



---------------------------------->
However, there are those who want to button up the rig once and avoid
touching a soldering iron to the PCB ever again unless something fails,
and there are those who have their rigs built and don't want to think
about doing anything inside them involving more than plugging or
unplugging a cable or module to make changes. Even fashioning a little
jumper and pushing it into the proper holes in the connector if they
decide to remove a module is more than they want to do.
>----------------------------------

Yep, I guess that's pretty much where I am.  Jumpers pushed into little
holes, or caps with their leads pushed into little holes doesn't sound
like how I want my K2 to be in the long run.  That's a temporary patch
for troubleshooting, not a long term bypass.  The RE header boards are a
far better long-term solution to plugging the headers.  Sure, one could
build up a more robust header plug but if you don't really want to be
touching the soldering iron once the rig is done, then you don't want to
have to run to the store (if you have one nearby) to get the parts to
build the plug.


 
--------------------------------->
But the RE product is not a panacea. There are issues involved in buying
and using them, especially if one does it as part of the original build
depending upon the configuration of their rig.
>----------------------------------

Panacea, it is not.  There are pros and cons and each person will need
to weigh the pros / cons for their particular situation.

The RE could be a waste of money or a God-send, depending on who you are
and your situation.



73!

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb -

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